Won't live with me until we're married???

Not sure where to put this, but I just got off the phone with my boyfriend and I'm a bit irritated. A little background story is that I found out I was pregnant in January and then decided to move from Chicago to TN to live with my mom in February. Since then I've been living with her. The initial plan was that he would come down in the summer and we would get a place together, he would find a job, etc, etc. Well some things got in the way(me not having a job) and the plan changed. One of his very good friends, who used to be a coworker, moved down to TN in 2009, and is working for his brother and law and has a house out here, etc, etc. At first the plan was that he would stay with this particular friend when he moved out here to TN this summer--until he started working And I would continue living with my mom. And then later on we would get a place together.

But in April my dad told me he would buy us a house, and we are getting other help as well(all of this was to make things easier for us financially). My boyfriend didn't like it at first because he didn't like the idea of relying on my parents for help, or the fact that we weren't buying things on our own but then it seemed like he got over it. Well now it's more than a month later and I am set to move into this house the second week of June.

And now he is saying he is having doubts about living with me without being married. This wouldn't have been an issue if he would have stated this earlier, but hello I am supposed to be moving in this house in only 3 weeks and he is now bailing out at the last minute. He has said that he would like to go to the original plan of him living with his friend since he will be working with him anyway, and that he just doesn't agree with living with me without being married. He said it's against his beliefs(religious). Okay and yet impregnating me was not against his beliefs? Also want to make it clear that in the beginning he AGREED to move to Tn and for us to live together--yes he had brought up marriage--but was very okay with us living together without being married. Now he is not?

The reason I am irritated is not because of how he feels(he is entitled to feel how he feels) but A)The timing--why did he WAIT to say this--why didn't he object earlier last month when I first presented the plan to him? B) Ever since finding out I've been pregnant he has been talking about marriage and I'm just not interested in being married right now--I feel as though he is trying to manipulate me into marrying him. And this is a tactic in doing it. C)How do I explain to my parents that I will be living with the babies alone in the house? The house is 4 bedrooms and was not at all inexpensive. If it was just going to be me, my dad would have gotten me a 2 bedroom apartment, not a house! So my dad is going to be upset, because it was discussed that it would be 4 of us(me, the bf, and the twins) living in the house.

I don't want to force him to live with me, if he is really uncomfortable with it, but I just don't understand his logic. It's going to look very bad in my dad's eyes that my bf bailed out at the last minute. It's also making me feel pressured to get married when I do not want to be right now. I think we are both entitled to feel how we feel, and I am trying to respect his feelings, but does anyone else think he it wrong how he has told me at the last minute?

It is not ideal..but just like you don't want to get married, he is allowed to have second thoughts about living with you and not being married. Clearly marriage is important to him. Everybody has a right to change their mind. It sounds like he himself may have felt manipulated by you and your family. You get pregnant and move home and he has to follow you to your home town and look for a job. Just like it doesn't make sense to you that he prefers the more traditional route of marriage even though you got pregnant prior to a marriage, it may not make any sense to him why you would only want to live together rather than have a legal union, especially for the children. It sounds to me like both of you have different values and expectations and this only came up after you got pregnant rather than before. I think he has a right to make decisions about his life as well and not be strongarmed by you and your family.

OK, so he knocked you up, but doesn't want to live with you til you're married? Since when did he get all conservative on you? Most people who are really religious would want to marry you before the baby is born so the child wouldn't be illegitimate.

It sounds like an excuse to me... that he's just not ready to live with you yet. He also may be waffling on the desire to move, and wants to see if he likes it there before agreeing to settle down with you. Or maybe he doesn't want to live in a house with an infant waking him up all night long. Make sure the house is in your name only until you are sure this guy is on the level and won't try to take half the equity in a divorce or if he decides he wants to leave.

It also could be that he doesn't want to move in with you yet because he doesn't want to assume full responsiblity for a family yet. So i think it is far safer to let him live separately from you until you are sure marriage is the right thing. If it's not, you've just made it worse because divorce is traumatic and expensive. If you are married, it would also give him more leverage in court if he tried to take the baby and move back to his old state.

Also, if you are married, up until the time one or the other files for divorce and custody, either parent can leave the state with the baby and it is not illegal. He could take the baby, move back to his home state and immediately file for custody and child support in that state, just get the drop on you. I think i recall that he had said he wanted the baby to stay in the state to be with his family, so he might have that trick up his sleeve, marry you, grab the baby one day when you're not around, head to his home state and file for divorce and custody there. As the respondent in that event, you'd have to go to court to try to get the baby back, and interstate divorces are expensive and it puts you on the defensive since you can't go into his parents house and snatch the baby once he files for custody, and have to wait until the judge decides what to do.

If you are not married and he tries to take the baby, it would be kidnapping, since if you are unmarried he has to go to court to establish paternity, then convince the court that he should have custody and be able to take the baby out of state. That would probably not happen at all with an infant, you would get custody. But if you are married, he could pack the kid up one day while you're at work and just head back to his home state... he couldn't be charged with kidnapping then since he is the legal father and there is no custody order in place granting you custoday and preventing him from taking the baby anywhere he pleases.

So the leverage is all yours in terms of custody as long as you remain unmarried, so you want to make really sure he is going to stick around and stay in your state and in the relationship before you marry him, and that this isn't some plan he's concocted to try to take the baby and head home to his mother and file for custody in that state and basically have the baby for the year or sometimes several years while custody issues are being decided! I personally would never marry the baby's father unless i was really, really sure the marriage was going to work, for just that reason. People can do crazy things when kids and custody issues get involved. Unless the relationship is really solid and you trust him completely, don't marry him.

He sounds afraid and unsure. May be he is afraid he will sound "unmanly" if he says that?

He has a job that is guaranteed to him working for his friend's brother in law. So he won't have to look for a job. And he AGREED to move down here(mutually), I didn't force him, he said he would. It's not that I don't want to get married ever, it's just that prior to this pregnancy happening I had no intention of marriage(neither of us did) until later on down the road. Just because I got pregnant has not changed my feelings about that--I don't think people should get married just because they get pregnant. Whereas for him the moment he found out I was pregnant he wanted to get married, where before I was pregnant he also felt like it was something we would do later on down the road. His expectations CHANGED after the pregnancy, whereas my changed the same. Matter of fact, we both had negative feelings about marriage, due to A)my parents messy divorce B) the fact that most people in his family divorce. So I felt as if he changed his mind and decided "hey let's get married" once I got pregnant.

I know he has a right to change his mind, but we did not strongarm him... My only sense of frustration is that he has known about the house since the FIRST week of April. My dad came down here two weeks ago and we FOUND a house. My boyfriend KNEW all of this was happening and did not say anything until NOW. That is why I am upset. If he would have just said this in the first place, my dad would not have wasted his time, and I would just get an apartment. Now I have to explain to my parents that I'm going to be by myself. This would have been avoided.

Yes that's very strange. With newborn twins you're obviously going to need the father's live-in assistance. Does he think that parenthood is optional? How bizarre.

He could be like my husband. My husband was fearful of marriage even though HE proposed. He was fearful of having our first child even though HE signed an agreement. He had not finished being a child as far as he was concerned. He was not really comfortable in his own life till he hit about 38 and we had been married since he was 24.

Some people are like this. They are very anxious people and have a lot of trouble seeing the future with optimism and without anxiety.

He has always been a bit conservative. His dad is deacon and he grew up in the church, but like you said, he saw nothing wrong with premarital sex(I find it ironic too). He wants to marry before the baby is born(i.e courthouse) and he made this clear once he found out I was pregnant, but I told him I was not comfortable with a shotgun marriage and that I didn't see why we couldn't just wait until we get settled, and until we can have a proper wedding and when we BOTH are ready. He seemed irritated by it and was hurt, but he had gotten over it(I thought). I too, think that maybe he just isn't ready to live together, but I don't know why he just didn't say that. Why wait until now?

I also think that his parents have something to do with this and that they may have talked him out of living with me. I just get that feeling.

I really don't think he would do something that crazy(take the babies away from me). I know he wanted to stay in Chicago, but I just don't think he would do anything like that. Besides his friend lives in TN, so why would he stay with his friend if he was really not wanting to move out here?

The house is my dad's so to speak(since it is his money after all) but it is technically "our" house since it is a gift to us, but it is not in my boyfriends name or mine for that matter. Anyway I don't know what to tell my parents at all, and I don't know how to act toward him because I kind off p**sed off that he chose to do this at the last minute. I don't want to be pressured to get married, and now that is how I feel.

Yes that's very strange. With newborn twins you're obviously going to need the father's live-in assistance. Does he think that parenthood is optional? How bizarre.

I don't know. That's another thing that has me upset. I'm going to be stuck with all of the work, if he lives with that friend. Whereas he'll be a part time parent. I don't like that at all. I'm wondering if that is what he is trying to do? Opt out?

He could be like my husband. My husband was fearful of marriage even though HE proposed. He was fearful of having our first child even though HE signed an agreement. He had not finished being a child as far as he was concerned. He was not really comfortable in his own life till he hit about 38 and we had been married since he was 24.

 

Some people are like this. They are very anxious people and have a lot of trouble seeing the future with optimism and without anxiety.

My boyfriend is a very skeptical negative person, so maybe he is like your husband. But the weird thing is that he acted so excited about the pregnancy, about the twins everything, and he still seem excited today(when we were talking over the phone)--that was before he told me he wasn't feeling comfortable living with me. I guess I just think that us not being married is not that valid, since their are kids on the way. I too was once against living with a "so" without being married but that was before I got pregnant.... I mean I don't like the idea of him being a part-time dad, while I get stuck with the work. And living apart will not make me want to marry him, it will make me resent him for not being there to help.

It's just bizarre. What do I tell my parents, without making them think he's trying to bail out?

I find with people like that they have a hard time making the final step to pretty much anything. They DO get excited and feel excited but they are SO fearful of "finishing" things. It is like they are horrified of success and horrified of failure that they just stand still and create their own failure. See what I mean? They can not make a decision and have a decision stick. It is annoying to say the least. You can have hope though, my husband FINALLY grew up a lot by the time he hit 38. He grows more in maturity all the time. Unfortunately the bad part is you have to be the decision maker until they decide to grow up or do something about their issues or you make your life with someone else or on your own.

Ugh I'm embarrassed. I have to explain, to relatives, and family members why I am living on my own taking care of twins, and why he is living with a friend more than 25 minutes away. Great. Should I call him back and tell him that I'm not happy with him changing his mind?

I find with people like that they have a hard time making the final step to pretty much anything. They DO get excited and feel excited but they are SO fearful of "finishing" things. It is like they are horrified of success and horrified of failure that they just stand still and create their own failure. See what I mean? They can not make a decision and have a decision stick. It is annoying to say the least. You can have hope though, my husband FINALLY grew up a lot by the time he hit 38. He grows more in maturity all the time. Unfortunately the bad part is you have to be the decision maker until they decide to grow up or do something about their issues or you make your life with someone else or on your own.

So should I tell him he needs to live with me, whether he is comfortable or not? I just don't know what exactly I am suppose to say to him. I can't force him to live with me, but I feel like this is wrong.

I think it is time for him to man up. He created the babies with you, he does not get to be proud papa showing the pictures to his buddies while you slog away. I would not be embarressed though because there is a lot of that with parenthood..........lol. He just needs a big dose of grow up.

You can do that but it's not probably not going to help the situation or make him feel more comfortable about moving in with you.

My feeling is that he is getting cold feet and he doesn't want to admit it.

So should I tell him he needs to live with me, whether he is comfortable or not? I just don't know what exactly I am suppose to say to him. I can't force him to live with me, but I feel like this is wrong.

I would tell him you feel this is wrong. Do not force him but tell him you feel it is wrong and he is NOT going to be out with his friends while you do all the work with the kids because THAT is so wrong it is not even imaginable and it won't be a good start when you do get married and it leaves a bad taste on getting married.

I think it is time for him to man up. He created the babies with you, he does not get to be proud papa showing the pictures to his buddies while you slog away. I would not be embarressed though because there is a lot of that with parenthood..........lol. He just needs a big dose of grow up.

I'm just embarrassed about how to explain to my family why he has bailed out, without my dad completely hating him. My dad was already not happy about the pregnancy and doubted that my boyfriend would stick around since we were not married, and now this just proves it. I need him to grow up now though--I'm really starting to get afraid that I will be in this by myself, and that he'll come around whenever he wants to--while I'm stuck with the brunt of the work.

I guess I just think that us not being married is not that valid, since their are kids on the way.

There are a lot of people who have premarital sex but draw the line about living together without being married. Some people just don't want to "play house" without the legal union. You may think it is not valid to balk on moving in together but he clearly has a different opinion and your feelings don't invalidate his. I have seen so many posts on this forum from women who are playing house with the guy, they have one or two children together and the guy doesn't want to get married. They spend years and years playing house with no legal ties to the man. I think a lot of women who find themselves pregnant would be thrilled if their boyfriend wanted to get married rather than living in limbo.

I was not comfortable with a shotgun marriage and that I didn't see why we couldn't just wait until we get settled, and until we can have a proper wedding

You talk about him being liberal enough to have pre-marital sex and make babies but then turns all conservative on you when it comes to living together....yet take a look at your own thoughts on this....you went ahead and had premarital sex and got pregnant, you want to live together without being married and raise the children for a few years before deciding whether or not you want to get married...and then, after living together and starting to raise a family, then you want a proper wedding. A wedding is really about two people starting their life together...if you have already been living together for a few years and raising a family, it seems kind of ridiculous to suddenly have a wedding and all the trappings of the wedding. Many people would find that just as silly as you think it is to get all conservative about living together once he already made the babies. My point in all of this is that he has a right to set boundaries for himself on what is acceptable.

Can you file for child support for before you get married? It might let him know you mean business that he is NOT stepping out on his responsibilities? Or have him with you after work to feed and bath and care for the babies with you?

He can have his boundaries but boundaries or not he still needs to man up and look after the two lives he made and support them in every way.

I think he's afraid of moving into your family's "territory". He's moving closer to your family and they are paying for the house - sounds a little intimidating. So, he's using his "values" to create a comfortable distance to get used to the new area and your family in a way that he still has some control and privacy. This may not be good timing, but he's trying to maintain a sense of self. IMO.

If he just told you this today, ask him if this is definite before you tell your dad. I wouldn't worry that this makes him look like he's bailing out. He's still moving closer. And if he is set on this to hold true to his values and needs you are within your right to set boundaries that will help you not feel that he can just come and go and "brag" as he pleases. Figure out your position on it and what you would need to do to take care of you and the twins. Sadly, he doesn't have to do anything. Make your requests and let him know how you feel, but in the end, let him make his choices. From there, you will have choices to make as well in order to best take care of yourself and the twins.

He can have his boundaries but boundaries or not he still needs to man up and look after the two lives he made and support them in every way.

Agreed. He has the right to believe what he wants and if he doesn't want to move in with you, then that's the way it is. You can't force him and no, he's not "required" to live with you or be with you because you guys had kids together.

What he IS required to do is to help care for the kids whether he lives with them or not. He also needs to provide child support.

He can have his boundaries but boundaries or not he still needs to man up and look after the two lives he made and support them in every way.

Absolutely, I agree that he needs to support those children. However, from what the OP is saying, HE WANTS TO GET MARRIED. She DOESN"T want to get married. Now, it could all very well be a big bluff and if she said "yes, let's get married" he may suddenly change his mind. However, according to the information the OP has given us, he is clear he wants to get married and she doesn't want to. In other words, there is nothing here that says he doesn't want to step up to the plate...there is just a disagreement on the game plan. I have read the OPs other threads and there just seems to be a recurrent theme of the OP wanting what she wants and forcing this on to her bf. Also, the pregnancy happened due to both of them continually being reckless regarding birth control...using the pull out method. There is just a general lack of communication and mutual agreement all the way around. There is just a whole lot of dictating from one side or the other side. The living arrangements are actually secondary compared to the real lack of dialogue. Both of you are talking AT each other rather than talking TO each other. If the two of you can't agree on things and each one is trying to force the other to bend to their will, then the parenting is not going to go smoothly because the children will play one parent against the other. My suggestion is to get some counselling on how to better communicate and compromise and understand each other's point of view BEFORE the children are born.

I cannot force anything on my bf. You act as though he is a child, incapable of making his own decisions. Yes there have been situations where I have gotten "my way" so to speak, but I never "forced" him into it. For instance when moving down here, I presented my reasons for why I wanted to--and told him. And he listened. Thought about it. And came back to me and said "okay". With our current living arrangement--he told me he was not comfortable with it and he told me why. I told him I understood, but then I told him why I was comfortable with it. He thought about it, and then again said "okay". Now throughout this all, he has been wishy-washy and I suspect it's because it's such a huge commitment and decision to make--whether it's living with me, having the babies, or just moving out of his comfort zone. So I was hesitant about whether or not he would go through everything, and it looks like I was right. Yes he is still moving down here, and is sticking to that part of the plan, but obviously at the last minute(for whatever reason) decided he no longer wanted to live with me. As for the pregnancy, actually as I've said in many other threads at the time that we conceived we were using condoms. Admittingly there were occasions earlier in the year where we used the pull-out method but not around the time where I found out I was pregnant. I'm not even sure what that has to do with this thread?

I agree that there seems to be communication issues. But not because we are not communicating--we are--but obviously because we are having a difficult time reaching an agreement. The agreement was mutual back in April, before my dad committed to getting this house, that WE BOTH would be living in it. I talked with my boyfriend, BEFORE giving my dad the "go ahead". I didn't "dictate" anything. My dad certainly wouldn't have gotten the house or even suggested the idea if I would have told him that I would be living on my own. My boyfriend had been wishy-washy about it, but then assured me that he would move in with me. Then today changed his mind. So not sure how we are dictating anything to one another?

BTW the marriage thing is something that we both were NOT committed to doing this year or next year and this was a mutual feeling. It wasn't until I got pregnant, where he brought up wanting to get MARRIED now before the baby is born. He said he didn't want the baby to be born out of wedlock, and that he wasn't raised that way. And it is recurrent theme in his extended family that once a guy gets a girl "knocked up" they have a courthouse or shotgun wedding before the baby is born and act as though they married for other reasons, when it is clear they married because the woman was pregnant. I don't agree with that, and don't think getting married in urgency because I am pregnant, is a good idea. So that is when we started to have different views. And us living together is not necessarily so we can play house, but so he can be an ACTIVE member in his child's life and share the child-rearing responsibilities. I'm not saying that living with a friend would not allow that, but the situation would be much differently because he would not be around in the same frequency that he would be if he lived with me. That is why I feel that it is okay to be in "limbo" (your words) and live together without being married.

I don't see where either of us has tried to force the other to "Bend" to the others' will.

I agree that obviously if he continues to change his mind, then something is wrong--either he does not feel like he can communicate with me or he is having conflicting thoughts about what to do, or maybe he is talking to me and I'm ignoring the "signs"--I don't know, I just know that we did TALK about this several times before any decisions were made. And I don't believe in relationship counseling.

As I said before I understand and respect his decision to not live with me before marriage. I just feel as though the way he has handled this has been very tactless, and that I am now stuck having to explain to several family members, and a dad, why I'm living in a 3000 sq foot house on my own with twins(an unnecessary cost and investment on my dad's part since bf is changing his mind) and why my bf DECIDED to move in with a friend instead of me. It's going to "appear" as though my boyfriend is having cold-feet, will also look like he is not committed to me. I know I shouldn't care what they think, but these are people who have invested a lot financially into this situation--and they did not have to.

I've already heard the "you should get married" talk from family members with views similar to my boyfriends, and I'm thinking that this will also incite the same sort of "lectures" and I'm sick of it. Also getting sick of my boyfriend being wishy-washy. I just feel as though I really can't trust him to stick by things lately, and it shouldn't be the way esp. since I'm pregnant.

Thank you everyone for the advice. I called him back, but he has not answered. I'm supposed to be coming to Chicago this weekend to see him, so since we will be face to face at least I will be able to figure out what is going on!