What is you Definition of a REAL man????

Due to an incendiary thread I've posted, I've had to call into question what does it mean to be a man in the new millennium. So the question is: What is your concept of a REAL man in the new millennium?

Lol there is no one answer. Each girl has their own issues, own wants, own selfish desires, that no one man will be perfect, but our hopes is that we can squeeze through and just be good enough haha, while achieving our own wants etc.

Search "thekid55" on ENA and go to his started posts. Read "The Ex Dilemma" thread. I personally think that nails it for the attractive man in the new millennium.

I just don't think there's an answer to your question. Everyone's preferences are different. It's also too vague, because I'm not sure what you mean by "real" man. It seems that you're looking for stereotypes.

I don't think there's anything wrong with defining "real man" in very specific terms, rather than saying, "Well, it's different things for different people."

Modern Western society, with its increasing liberalism over the last several decades, has gained much -- but also lost much. One of those losses, thanks in part to early feminism, is the degradation of masculinity, traditionally defined as assertiveness, confidence, taking charge, being gentle yet firm and resolved in your decisions.

But I have come to a realization over the last couple of years. It seems to me that a lot of modern men are afraid, almost ashamed, of asserting their masculinity. It's almost as though they are afraid of the word itself. A man who proudly embraces his masculinity, and masculine qualities, is often perceived in our modern Western culture as "backwards" and not keeping up with "progress."

The great irony is this: although they will never admit it, most women want a truly, genuinely masculine man: someone who is assertive, confident, gentle yet resolved. Women, on the other hand, can get away with lacking some of these qualities because, deep down, we all perceive them as masculine qualities. This is why lacking confidence is often seen as worse for a man than for a woman. The man is expected to have the confidence and assertiveness to approach the woman; and girls grow up with this expectation ("My prince charming will come to me.").

So, I say: Men, embrace it. There is such a thing as a "real man" -- and, you know, that's a good thing. I'm learning to embrace it myself, after years of ignoring my masculinity rather than developing it. I truly want to be a better MAN. And deep down in their primal subconscious, women want that.

I just don't think there's an answer to your question. Everyone's preferences are different. It's also too vague, because I'm not sure what you mean by "real" man. It seems that you're looking for stereotypes.

Yes. Exactly what I was thinking.

I don't really care. I'm biologically male; everything else is cultural ridiculousness. Being a "real man" in America is different than being a "real man" elsewhere--or, if I were to time-travel, I wouldn't be a real man because I couldn't hunt down a mammoth or whatever. I think people should be more concerned with being a good person than being a "real" man/woman, because "real" doesn't necessarily mean "good."

Outside of liking breasts and football, I'm not much of a "real man," going by John's definition. I'm apparently defective, but I'll survive somehow.

John, good answer, wanted to write something similar myself, but you put it out perfectly, I agree with every word.

I just don't think there's an answer to your question. Everyone's preferences are different. It's also too vague, because I'm not sure what you mean by "real" man. It seems that you're looking for stereotypes.

Yuh, you probably looked at old post. I am just looking 4 an anonymous sounding board w/ no flaming, just opinions Bulletproof.

P.S. I'm not a troll.

Kudos to -John-, personally. Through my own research on what it means to be a real man, I've found what he says to be my own answer, but I'm looking for other perspectives. Modern female perspectives.

I've learned that being a 'real man' is no different than being a 'real person'. It isn't about gender,but it is simple: knowing what you.want, being direct, having empathy but not allowing yourself to be pushed around, honestly, boundaries, strength of character. These are non gender specifics that lead to a fulfilling life.

They are also characteristics that the opposite sex finds irresistible.

They are.also very rare given that we seem to have self doubt and manipulation bread into us.

I agree with everyone who is saying it is much better to be a good person; that has nothing to do with gender stereotypes. I am a heterosexual female, and personally I am repelled by the description John posted. Definitely not what every woman is looking for.

my boyfriend is a "real" man! or at least he says he is. I couldn't care less as long as he keeps treating me well and sincerely loving me. look, if you have a penis and you think you're male-- congrats you're a REAL man! no matter if you're gay, like to cross-dress, enjoy cartoons, cry at movies, or whatever. how 'manly' a guy is has little bearing on my attraction towards him, really!

Here's my definition of a "REAL" man:

honest

secure with himself

doesn't play games

self-aware

has a broad-minded and mature outlook

well-endowed

Kidding about the last one.

(Even though I've made a list) I am very much in agreement with what the other posters are saying.

John, good answer, wanted to write something similar myself, but you put it out perfectly, I agree with every word.

Kudos to -John-, personally. Through my own research on what it means to be a real man, I've found what he says to be my own answer, but I'm looking for other perspectives. Modern female perspectives.

It's the truth, and I'm only now beginning to realize that this is the way things are -- even though, again, most women won't openly admit it. They don't want a guy who is "too nice." They want a masculine man, someone who is assertive and dominant. A man who lacks those qualities is often perceived by women as weak, a wuss, a pushover, and therefore unable to protect her.

This is basic human nature.

Nice guys finish last for a reason: women want someone they can feel "safe" with, someone they feel can protect them. Assertive, dominant, masculine men have more success with women for this reason, while the rest of us weak, pushover guys end up on forums like this complaining about how women pay us no attention; and, of course, the women here all say the same thing (although they may not consciously realize what they are admitting): "Get more confidence, because women like that."

Or, as so many people are fond of saying: "Man up!"

Yuh, you probably looked at old post. I am just looking 4 an anonymous sounding board w/ no flaming, just opinions Bulletproof.

 

P.S. I'm not a troll.

I'm not flaming you. That *is* my opinion- that there is no real answer to that question, and that it brings to mind stereotypes. Nor did I say you were a troll.

Somebody who has integrity and has morals. Who takes responsibility for their life and everything they do. Someone who has a backbone, who has stability.

Now THAT is a real man.

Women, on the other hand, can get away with lacking some of these qualities because, deep down, we all perceive them as masculine qualities.

[emphasis mine] Wrong.

Since deep down your subconscious is telling you such things, it's probably safe to assume that you either want a cowering, passive female partner or you're a-okay with a woman who is in touch with her "masculinity."

The man is expected to have the confidence and assertiveness to approach the woman; and girls grow up with this expectation ("My prince charming will come to me.").

Never had such an expectation.

[emphasis mine] Wrong.

Since deep down your subconscious is telling you such things, it's probably safe to assume that you either want a cowering, passive female partner or you're a-okay with a woman who is in touch with her "masculinity."

Nope. The society in which I live is telling me such things. Just look around you: It is presupposed in our culture that men should be assertive and dominant and confident in romantic matters. I DO NOT want a cowering, passive female. But they are hard to come by -- since women, unlike men, are not expected to be assertive and dominant and confident. Get it?

Never had such an expectation.

You are the exception. Most women have this expectation, since (once again) men are expected to be the assertive ones and approach the women, ask them out, ask for their numbers, and so on (modern females still entertain dreams of a man coming to "sweep them off their feet"). And when a man lacks these assertive qualities, and is subsequently ignored by women, he comes to forums like this one to complain, whereupon the women advise him: "Get more confidence (read: be more masculine), because women like that." Women with similar problems with men, however, are often not advised to get more confidence. Instead you often see these women advised to "send signals" to the male that you are interested (since the male is supposed to "pick up" on these signals and approach the female).

Social science research has established these facts, so I'm not talking out of my a** here. You can do some research for yourself to see the truth of what I'm saying. Or you can just use your own eyes to observe the dynamics at work in Western culture.

All I'm saying is: I'm tired of complaining about these dynamics in forums like this one, and instead I will embrace masculinity as it is defined, if that is how I am going to have success.

One more thing.

I don't really care. I'm biologically male; everything else is cultural ridiculousness.

This is not necessarily true. How we define masculinity (assertive, confident, dominant) is not necessarily something that is only cultural in nature. There likely is a biological basis for this definition of masculinity. Increases in the male sex hormone testosterone causes increases in aggression, assertiveness, fearlessness, and other things which we associate with masculinity.

Therefore, suggesting that traditional masculinity is simply a cultural invention is, I think, wrong. Biology precedes culture, and therefore culture is often shaped by our biology. This is one of those cases, I believe.

This is not necessarily true. How we define masculinity (assertive, confident, dominant) is not necessarily something that is only cultural in nature. There likely is a biological basis for this definition of masculinity. Increases in the male sex hormone testosterone causes increases in aggression, assertiveness, fearlessness, and other things which we associate with masculinity.

 

Therefore, suggesting that traditional masculinity is simply a cultural invention is, I think, wrong. Biology precedes culture, and therefore culture is often shaped by our biology. This is one of those cases, I believe.

The meaning of masculinity has changed with culture and time, so socialization plays a massive part. You say there is likely biological basis, but this hasn't been definitively proven. Also, biology itself may precede culture, but we are interpreting biology with our own cultural biases.

I read somewhere that women are becoming increasingly attracted to softer more feminine men in western culture. The need for dominant males to protect them is become obsolete, and as women are totally capable of fending for themselves, they seek a mate for more feminine qualities, like being nurturing and interested in intimacy and forming long secure romantic bonds. Seems plausible. After all, all this talk of cave men, and how modern men should behave like our ancestors totally negates evolution, both biological and social/cultural.

A real man is one who defines himself how ever he sees fit and isn't defined by someone else.

You say there is likely biological basis, but this hasn't been definitively proven.

When there are a bunch of aggressive, dominant guys in a room together, women are often fond of saying, "There's a lot of testosterone in here." That's why I say masculinity likely has a biological basis -- it has even worked itself into our language.

I read somewhere that women are becoming increasingly attracted to softer more feminine men in western culture. The need for dominant males to protect them is become obsolete, and as women are totally capable of fending for themselves, they seek a mate for more feminine qualities, like being nurturing and interested in intimacy and forming long secure romantic bonds. Seems plausible.

Re-read what you wrote there (particularly the bolded part) and you'll see that this actually bolsters my point. Those are feminine qualities, as you admit, and since women are becoming increasingly independent economically they tend to want a man who displays more feminine qualities (i.e. a man with less masculine qualities, such as dominance and assertiveness, so as not to chafe against her independence).

But, you know, nature has a way of fighting back and reasserting herself against changing social and cultural dynamics. Consider this:

Are Women Attracted to Masculinity in Men?

 

After researching heterosexual female preferences, and beginning a synthesis of this research, the only answer I can give to this question is “yes and no.”...

 

Certain traits associated with masculinity seem to be attractive to women on average: dominance, confidence, assertiveness, and extraversion. Other traits associated with masculinity seem to be unattractive to women, such as disagreeableness and aggressiveness. Some stereotypically feminine traits are preferred by women, such as agreeableness.... Other feminine traits are a turn off to women, such as submissiveness. Shyness isn’t obviously a feminine trait, but it is an unmasculine trait, and it it unattractive to women. Women tend to fantasize sexually about both submission and connection with men (i.e. “romance,” or being “swept off their feet” , which is consistent with their preferences for dominance and agreeableness in men.

 

link removed

Women want a dominant, assertive (read: masculine) man -- but one with certain feminine qualities like agreeableness. (Wusses and pushover guys finish last, but so do the total jerks, eventually.)

But guys who do not display certain masculine qualities (dominance, assertiveness) will not be attractive to women, and will be ignored. Those guys will then come to forums like this one to ask why women are ignoring him.

People will advise him to "get more confidence", "show more initiative." Women with similar problems, however, are advised to "send signals" to the male that you are interested -- since his role is to approach the female.

Amen, -John-. I want to start a totally Hetero bromance w/ you, bro *I kid*.Only when I became a beta-male with alpha-male tendencies was I successful w/ women.

I notice on this forum that when a man asserts his masculity he attacked to no end. What's up w/ that?

I agree with everyone who is saying it is much better to be a good person; that has nothing to do with gender stereotypes. I am a heterosexual female, and personally I am repelled by the description John posted. Definitely not what every woman is looking for.

LOL. Yet she is very likely to hook-up w/ a guy fitting the very description she is "repelled" by. What is you boyfriend like BrokenSmile?

I think the thread was meant to be titled, "what makes a gentleman?" to balance out the women's "classy" thread -

- articulate

- doesn't feel the need to get blind drunk

- doesn't let their girlfriend wife go home by herself at night/walks her to the car

- won't string along a woman/take advantage of her

- dresses for the occasion/their clothes are always clean and their hair brushed (hate the unbrushed hair look on males and females)

- will at least offer to pay for their date's meal, at least in the dating stage

- remembers birthdays

- uses their basic manners

- doesn't use derogetory words for women (the C word) and keeps swearing to a minimum