Impossible to make any headway with girl I like...

I am finding it incredibly frustrating trying to spend time with a girl I like.

She has very strong ties to her existing friends and it pretty much feels like a combination of them filling her schedule in advance and/or me always being a low priority, less attractive option.

We are old acquaintances who've recently (within the past 17-18 months) gotten back in touch. But because of the many years we weren't in touch, I am finding myself at a huge disadvantage, not having shared the social history and memories with her as her other friends have.

I think we get along great, and I can see us making a great couple. But putting that aside - it's even hard to simply get together with her casually.

For example, I asked her to an exhibition which I thought would be great thing to do together, and she was definitely interested. But the moment we parted ways that time, the idea never cropped up again until I brought it up again over a month later. Even with that, she struggled to find time to go. Then I learned that she had plans for an outdoor event with other friends and would only cancel it, barring the weather.

Something like that just depresses me, because it reinforces how small I feel. Despite having suggested the idea over a month earlier, I was still a lesser option. We did end up going - albeit, her other friends came as well. And throughout the show, I just felt permanently at an arm's length, because she'd walk through the majority the exhibits with one of her female friends in tow, while I'd be in front or behind (thinking about her). It bothers me inside, that something for which I had originally only invited her, got pushed back so much and turned into a group event.

I just can't compete with her friends, because I have not been to the places they've been, eaten the foods they've eaten, or shared the laughs they've shared. Amongst them, I have little to say and contribute because of how "outside" I feel in terms of social familiarity. Amongst them, I become a lesser person to talk to for her.

I'm not saying she should abandon her friends for me, but I just don't feel like I have any way of warming to her (and vice versa) unless it's just the two of us. But because I seem to only see her either briefly or amongst others, I will never be able to make any impression.

I hear that she's busy all the time, and find out later that she's been out and about with other friends. It feels like the planets have to align for her to agree to do something with me.

I don't know how to deal with this; at the end of the day, I am left feeling lonely, upset and powerless...

Something like that just depresses me, because it reinforces how small I feel.

If she was truly interested, then she would make the time to be with you.

Never let a woman -- or anyone, for that matter -- make you feel small. No one is worth that.

Forget her, and find someone else who is truly worth your time and attention.

She's not the only woman in the universe, is she?

Talk to other women, too. You're putting too many chips in just her basket. There's plenty of people to talk to and grow close to- and if you're less available, it'll add some mystery to who you are. Short-minded people often want what they can't have.

If she was truly interested, then she would make the time to be with you.

 

Never let a woman -- or anyone, for that matter -- make you feel small. No one is worth that.

 

Forget her, and find someone else who is truly worth your time and attention.

She might be worth your time and attention.. but I can't say for sure, all I notice is what you put about:

'It bothers me inside, that something for which I had originally only invited her, got pushed back so much and turned into a group event'.

- Did I miss some details in your post? Apologies if I did, but that seems mean.. like she didn't care to notice this or she was friend zoning you.. either way, she either didn't realise you were inviting her on a date or the equivalent or she is just using you.. I can't honestly say either way. Perhaps the next invite could help you guage if either way & you need to say "I want this to be just the two of us".. to get that chance to guage her reaction.. which would prevent any further frustration and give you a chance to spend some time alone with her, if she is willing. I think she perhaps needs to know a little bit more about how you feel without overwhelming her..?! If she is willing, you have your answer & can make proper progress!

That's a mistake I made when I was younger. I had crushes on women who treated me like crap. And I still liked them !

I would find some better friends !

I understand everyone's thoughts about forgetting about her and looking past this - and believe me, I SO wish I could do that, because it would rid me of thinking about her so much.

But as it always goes, when one becomes infatuated with someone, it becomes that something that consumes the mind, unable to be repressed.

The other thing is, if I were to so confidently disregard those who don't affably respond to my suggestions, then I would never find anyone. This all kind of crosses over with my thoughts in another thread about how few friends I have. I am not a "life of the party" person with a big personality, so one has to get to know me for anything to develop. If I don't do anything first, nothing will come about because I'm just not a person to contact. So essentially, I have to try, despite how futile it seems.

It's also too harsh for me to dismiss her for my frustrations, because she is not being a bad/rude person by any stretch - I just feel that her senses of companionship and familiarity lie so impenetrably close with her existing friends, that it blocks the chances of a single guy trying to even get a toe in.

It's almost as if she's reluctant to any get together, unless it involves a group of 4 or more. So I just don't know how to make any impression; with her social ties being so strong, and with me being not only a guy, but also only a relatively recent/"new" person in her life.

And as I've said, I'm struggling just trying to become a closer friend vs. an acquaintance, irrespective of the personal feelings I have in the mix.

I think you have two options.

Firstly, you can carry on as you are and hope something better happens with this girl.

Or, try and forget about her. And I know this is hard when you get a crush on someone. But a little trick I learned that works is to develop a crush on someone else. Look around for another girl who you like the look of. Start to think about her, try talking to her. When this happens you will find you will be thinking about the original girl less. This has worked for me a couple of times !

Hey Expression,

I totally can sympathize with you man. Everything you said is exactly how I have felt recently about a girl. With a lot of effort and frustration, I managed to hangout with this girl alone on a few occasions, but it was like you said, "Really hard and felt like I was low priority." She was the kind of girl that always had plans it seemed unless I asked her to do something like 5 days in advance or something. I actually made a video blog about it that was kind of a good emotional release. Anyway, she was all I thought about for maybe 4 months, but after I had organized a few meetups and also seen her at parties and such, I told her how I felt, was really open, and asked her out. She told me she was't ready for a relationship and that she had been turning a lot of guys down recently. I actually know that to be true, because due to gossip, I actually know some of the guys lol. Anyway, after that I decided to move on. I didn't want to, but I was just worn out with trying to always put on my best suit in front of her and realized that it didn't make much of a difference to her. Sure I would get compliments that I was the most interesting or funniest person she had ever met, but it ultimately got me nowhere. I also thought about if she had agreed to go out with me. Even if I had got what I wanted, she just didn't give me enough attention, so even if she was my gf, her being somewhat aloof would get aggravating. Not saying you should do the same, but that's what I did. She still crosses my mind and I have feelings for her, but I dont try to pursue her or daydream about being with her anymore, because I know that I confessed my feelings and there is nothing more I can do.

If you feel that strongly about her, then I wouldn't advise just forgetting about her - as you have said.., I think you are having a hard time breaking through her social circle.. something really impressed on me about this girl and the group she hangs out with - she seems to find comfort and feel safe in a group.., just an impression from you saying she is pretty much always? with this group of friends and wouldn't go out with you alone! Maybe that's the real issue here and it could be too easy to read too much in to the rest of this because of this difficulty she has with letting anybody new get close. Do you know anything about the history of her relationships in terms of things turning out negative in some way, that might perhaps explain why she won't go out on a date alone with a guy?

Perhaps she hasn't been safe in the past, is what I mean.. perhaps she is cautious and has asked her friends to always be there if a new guy tags along, and maybe you will have to accept this about her to get time with her, but perhaps go to a bar and get some time alone in a separate booth where you can talk with an element of privacy, if not completely alone with her. Of course, the other thing is a telephone conversation can be private for you, even if she is surrounded by her friends and if you can time it - like you know when they all tend to hang out together - perhaps you can even speak to her over the phone when she can speak freely too, so you are not wondering at the silences or awkward responses after that might seem loaded with meaning, but aren't because she was just conscious of what she was saying around other people..

To my knowledge, I do not think she has ever been in a relationship actually. I gather this based on her cultural, conservative background, as well as the fact that her social life is fairly front and center on social networks. There has never been any hint of extended time spent with any one guy, either from her directly or via conversations with her friends.

She has a lot of friends, so it's not just one particular group. But rather any one of them are more likely to get her attention and time than I ever can on my own. It stings me a little, when I hear of some of the events she goes to, because I wouldn't even think they'd be that appealing to her. But why does she go? Because it's with a group of friends she's been close to over the years, and that supercedes the event itself. All I can say is that she is the type of girl who will walk arm in arm with one of her girls - that shows you how close-knit her female friends are. The guys (like me) tag behind or in front.

I think she is privy to my feelings, because I have subtly flirted with her during the brief period that we worked together and left her a small gift on Feb 14. She loved it, but her response ended with things being "complicated on her end" and that was never explained any further. Now, I doubt she has a boyfriend in secret either, so this could mean a dozen things. Perhaps there are others like me who are also vying for her attention? Maybe there's someone she has her sights on? I can't see her being the initiator though. Could be wishful thinking, but when I look at the time she is in her life, the majority of her friends who have partnered up, how much she enjoys sentiment - I can't see her turning down a relationship. But a comment she made earlier in the year had me thinking she may possibly treasure friends more than a partner. So are things complicated because she is receiving a lot of attention, but does not want any of it?

We were invited to a wedding recently, and I offered to drive her there, as she is out of the way (nothing more). She agreed, but the night after, she suddenly called and said it doesn't matter, because she would have her sister to drop her off. I have always been happy to take her to and from home if we're to be in the same place, but her constant excuse is that it's out of my way. I've made it clear that it's fine, but she insists on not hitching a ride. I don't think she's uncomfortable with me, because I was driving her to and from work for about 2 weeks. It sounds like she's just being extremely considerate on the surface - but I'm guessing she's afraid that if she agrees regularly, she'll be giving me the wrong signal? I don't know what to do if she won't even accept courtesy rides from me (straight home as well, no detours for food or anything).

This is all straining me. I know the advice I'll get is to either move on or confront her, but I just can't bring myself to do either of those because of how greatly I feel about her. The logical part of me really wants to move off of her, but the emotional part of me is just too overpowering. I think we get along great, but it's like she's oblivious to the potential. So it's just stalemating. I also risk ruining our friendship if things got awkward, and I can't bare losing her. She is someone I wished I would've stayed close to all through all those years, because right now, I feel like I'm tied to being just one of many friends - and not even a closer one...

Expression,

I would personally give this one more time. Don't abandon it yet. Sometimes women value same sex friendships because they may be more stable and meaningfull than what they perceive to be high risk/reward opposite sex forays. Especially if they have been hurt badly i the past. This may explain her comment of "complicated on her end". I would continue being a friend to her and become more of a mainstay in her social life but without being too pushy (walking a fine line here). You may feel your leverage start to increase with regard to how she might respond to more direct advances. If she does start seeing another man exclusively you've got your answer. But as to why she is single right now, there is simply too much that is unknown to write this one off just yet. All IMO.

You are obviously in love with her, so you cannot continue being friends with her. Trust me, she has ALREADY picked up on your feelings towards her, probably before you even realised you had them, and she is NOT interested. If she were, she would have made sure to take you up on your offer to spend time with you alone. It's not that she is shy or has a wall up, but she is CHOOSING not the let you in because she is not interested in you. There's nothing you can do about it, so read between the lines and accept that she isn't giving you the signs that she is interested. It doesn't matter whether you were not friends for the past few years - many people go from not knowing one another AT ALL, then a few months later they are in a relationship. You are using that she hasn't seen you in a while as an excuse as to why she is being distant. She doesn't want to be close to you, and that's it.

I know that you don't want to move on or confront her - but what other choice do you have? To stay in limbo, crushing on a girl that doesn't seem interested and feel worse every day, not to mention wasting time that could be spent on someone that DOES want to be with you. You have to MAN UP and ask her out on another date and if she fobs you off, make a CHOICE to move on and stop contacting her and hanging out. I have been in your situation before and it's not fun. It killed me that he didn't feel the same. I was almost going crazy from it. I wish I had made the choice to tell him I couldn't do it, and wished him the best and moved on.

And Someday_Soon, I'm not sure what your dating experiences are like, but when a woman is into a man, she RECIPRICATES advances and takes advantages of opportunities to know him better. It really is not that complicated. She has had PLENTY of time to assess whether he has romantic value for her, and she's decided that he doesn't. However, I DO think he should invite her out ON A DATE - such as dinner and the movies - and if she does not accept or if she gives him signals that she only feels for him as a friend (not that the OP would choose to pick up on those signals anyway), he should really let it go. Dating is not that complicated. If two people really like each other they will move toward one another.

When you say she has already picked up on his romantic feelings for her ,is that a result of him suggesting they go out or do you think women are much more intuitve about picking up on a man's interest?

Women are much more intuitive and we pick up on finer details that men wouldn't even recongnise. But the suggesting to go out has already made it even clearer to her. And her not accepting is pretty clear that she doesn't feel the same way too.

Thanks Someday_Soon, your comment softens the strain if only with that little bit of hope.

dramallama, I completely understand everything you say and I'm sure you're on the ball for most of it. It's not that I can't take the hint, it's that my emotional core absolutely refuses to give in over logic - which really sucks. I wish I could just click eject on "feelings" and pop it out like a flash drive, believe me. There is a side of me that's telling me how irrational I'm behaving, but it just can't hold back the wave of dopamine surging around inside me.

I'm just torn right now, because it is a constant battle between my mind and my emotions. When I see her online for example, my mind tells me not to contact her so I don't appear too persistent, but my emotions have me itching to send a message. My mind is always telling me not to text or email her, but my emotions crave otherwise. It's about a 50/50 result each time - but the mind's victories are usually hollow since they're often just delayed emotional responses in the end.

To confuse me more, she anonymously referred to me as her guardian angel on facebook when I helped her with something randomly to her surprise. Then again, she might just heap superlatives on anyone, when in the moment.

The tiny bit of wishful thinking that fuels my feelings, is due to her never having been in a relationship. I think she might be reticent to step up because she may be overly analytical and cautious about the qualities of a potential partner (ie. I don't think she would want any short-term thing - if she were to have a relationship at all). I think this, because just about every one of our friends have partnered up around us and I can't see why she's still single - unless she's secretly very reluctant. This also points to a general frustration I have with how everyone around me seems to have found someone so easily. With the amount of people there are, I think to myself that statistically having 2 sharing mutual feelings about one another would be very rare. And yet, I hear people's stories about how they met here and there and at the snap of their fingers, they'd be together. I am baffled at how easily it happens for everyone - it makes me feel like a minus in a world of pluses (meaning I'll always net a minus, trying to pair up with pluses).

The girl I liked prior to her, seems to have been mostly available timewise, in retrospect. But in the end, my infatuation waned because I realized our personalities and lifestyles were too disparate and I was just clouded by a fervent crush. I'm sure everyone will say I'm going through the same thing again. But this time I can see us fitting together well. To use my tennis metaphor, I just want her to hit the ball back more than once, so she can start enjoying the game I've been trying to start...

Women are much more intuitive and we pick up on finer details that men wouldn't even recongnise. But the suggesting to go out has already made it even clearer to her. And her not accepting is pretty clear that she doesn't feel the same way too.

I think women think they know what's in a man's head. I'm not sure they are right all the time though.

Sounds just like what I'm going thru.

And Someday_Soon, I'm not sure what your dating experiences are like, but when a woman is into a man, she RECIPRICATES advances and takes advantages of opportunities to know him better. It really is not that complicated. She has had PLENTY of time to assess whether he has romantic value for her, and she's decided that he doesn't. However, I DO think he should invite her out ON A DATE - such as dinner and the movies - and if she does not accept or if she gives him signals that she only feels for him as a friend (not that the OP would choose to pick up on those signals anyway), he should really let it go. Dating is not that complicated. If two people really like each other they will move toward one another.

My life experiences tell me feelings can and do change. The answer you want doesn't always come immediately. Patience is a virtue when pursuing love as in any other endeavor. The advice I gave was to hang in there as a friend and not be too pushy. It's obviously he really likes this girl, and she isn't too put off by his friendship. There is no reason to not keep being friends without being pushy and look for further signals. I never guaranteed or implied a romantic relationship was imminent.

dramallama, I completely understand everything you say and I'm sure you're on the ball for most of it. It's not that I can't take the hint, it's that my emotional core absolutely refuses to give in over logic - which really sucks. I wish I could just click eject on "feelings" and pop it out like a flash drive, believe me. There is a side of me that's telling me how irrational I'm behaving, but it just can't hold back the wave of dopamine surging around inside me.

You are CHOOSING to give in. You DO have control over the emotional part of the brain, but you are CHOOSING to follow her around like a lost puppy. Which is the opposite of attraction.

The tiny bit of wishful thinking that fuels my feelings, is due to her never having been in a relationship. I think she might be reticent to step up because she may be overly analytical and cautious about the qualities of a potential partner (ie. I don't think she would want any short-term thing - if she were to have a relationship at all).

You are making excuses for her again. She is not in a relationship, at least with you, because she is CHOOSING not to be with you and to know you better. It really is that simple. She is not moving towards you because she is not interested.

This also points to a general frustration I have with how everyone around me seems to have found someone so easily.

When you are so hooked on someone that you are sure is right for you, you become blind to everyone else's potentional. The energy that you're putting into thinking about your crush, could be put into going out and meeting other women who ARE interested.

To use my tennis metaphor, I just want her to hit the ball back more than once, so she can start enjoying the game I've been trying to start...

But she doesn't WANT to play tennis with you so stop wishing that she'd change. Just take the hint and move on. If she comes chasing after you, then great, but if not, you're on your way to finding someone that will move TOWARDS you, instead of rejecting spending time with you.

Look, as I said, I've been where you are - completely. But at some point you have to say to yourself, "I'm not going to be making progress if I'm stuck in this position. So I'm either going to go for what I want, and make it crystal clear to her what my intentions are, or I'm going to make a CHOICE to move on right here and now." You are being all desperate and frustrated because you don't have control over this situation and it's not going anywhere. But you DO have control.

You can either choose to make a move on her and ask her to the movies then dinner, or you can make the choice to move on - stop checking her facebook page (use leech block, if you have to), remove her news feed from fb, neglect to see her in person, do not log into facebook chat, etc. Take control of the situation - your aim is to get over her where your feelings are totally indifferent towards her (like after at least 9 months of NC).

So, Expression, are you going to make a move with her, are you going to choose to move on (and change your environment to reflect that), or are you going to choose to stay in limbo and slowly go crazy?

Someday Soon - Sorry, but I think once you are in the friendzone, SOME relationships can form naturally, but if the person you are crushing on is continually RESISTING spending time alone with you, then you must wake up and smell the coffee, because if you hang around you only make yourself feel worse every day. And that can do great emotional and mental damage. I used to be in that position. My brain went a little bit crazy.

So it really is NOT good to hang around someone that is not moving towards you, as you are moving towards them. It just takes over your thoughts and stops you from meeting someone that WILL move towards you and accept any time alone with you. Not to mention, CHOOSING to stay stuck on a crush that isn't feeling it with YOU, stops you from meeting someone that will dig what you have to offer. Attraction is either there or it isn't. If it is there, a romance can form, but if it is not, then nothing you can do or say will form it for the other person. If the OP moves on and she realises that she missed out on a good thing, she WILL make it clear and start to move towards him, but if she doesn't chase after him, then he knows he's made the right decision.

dramallama, I don't doubt your comments as you are probably on the money. I'm just repeating myself, but again, I just don't have enough willpower to dismiss her from my mind.

As you've mentioned, dating someone should be theoretically easy, because if the feelings are mutual, they'll just gravitate toward one another from the get-go. In line with a thread about the minimal friends I have and the girls I like being a wall to me, I am just becoming increasingly upset by my chances and efforts. I get depressed and confused when I see everyone I know having jumped into relationships so easily since none are serial daters.

The reason I persist with the ones I like, is that if I turned my head the moment I detected disinterest on their end - I don't think I'd ever find anyone. Sounds pessimistic, but with my character and the social circle I'm in, if I don't make an effort, no-one else ever will. I'm just not a guy that girls will gravitate to, so I feel like I need to work harder than everyone to make an impression. Unfortunately, it just seems like I'm bothering them in the end, which makes it even worse.

It all makes me me feel very unattractive in the end, as both a friend or a potential partner. I feel like that guy who would not be missed if he was not at a party. Makes me start looking down on myself physically and internally when my presence and personality seems so futile - because if even friends look at me as just one of many, how can I hope that any one girl will see me for more than that?

So what advice are you looking for exactly? Because you seem intent on playing the victim and acting like you have no control over the situation. Only people with low confidence CHOOSE to stay stuck on those who don't feel the same way (whether it's a crush or an ex). I know you are scared to let go of this girl, and it's safer than taking a risk, but you are going to be blind to those who WILL give you a chance and move towards you. Aaaaaand, you could be putting your energy into meeting other people instead of focusing on her, but you're choosing to stand still. So I'm not even sure what advice you're looking for...

You say you don't have enough willpower, I say you are making a CHOICE to stay stuck on her. Realise that even standing still is your own choice so take responsibility for the outcome (choosing not to meet other people, therefore not having a girlfriend). And you are putting way too much emphasis on having a relationship which makes you insecure and desperate (women DO pick up on it) which keeps you single and so on.

Read the non-chalance thread.

 

The reason I persist with the ones I like, is that if I turned my head the moment I detected disinterest on their end - I don't think I'd ever find anyone. Sounds pessimistic, but with my character and the social circle I'm in, if I don't make an effort, no-one else ever will. I'm just not a guy that girls will gravitate to, so I feel like I need to work harder than everyone to make an impression. Unfortunately, it just seems like I'm bothering them in the end, which makes it even worse.

Not to be mean but you said you are just not the kind of guy girls will gravitate toward. This makes me think you have some confidence problems. Most times the only people that command attention are those that are very confident in every aspect of themselves and their lives.

Not to be mean but you said you are just not the kind of guy girls will gravitate toward. This makes me think you have some confidence problems. Most times the only people that command attention are those that are very confident in every aspect of themselves and their lives.

I would be lying if I said I was super confident; I am definitely more reserved than the average person. Though that doesn't mean I stay cooped in a shell. I have been the enthusiastic, assured persona many times to little response. Whether I'm nice or funny or sarcastic or witty - it makes no difference. At the end of the day, I never seem to linger in another's mind. I am like a single-serving every time, not worth a second thought. I am not being pessimistic - it is just the way things continue to go.

The same couple of friends that came with us to the exhibition, just spent another day with her - this time I was not invited. It's doubly frustrating, because the activity they were doing was exactly the same as one I had just done previously - which she knew about. So I would presume it should have been a no-brainer to bring me along to their's for some familiar commentary. Alas, I only realize after the fact, when their photos are up on a networking site. Certainly makes me feel rejected, just as a friend even.

Things are clearly not moving at all with this girl, because communication has dropped severely between us. Now, I was almost always the initiator, but nevertheless, she would usually respond to me and we shared an enjoyable banter. In the past month or so however, I have not gotten a single response from the few messages I sent (which were all casual comments, nothing implicit). For a while, she would strike up a quick online conversation when she saw me - that has stopped. She's also always one to comment on people's uploaded photos - I just put a bunch and did not get a peep from her. It may look like I'm reading into it too much, but these are all behavioral clues for me. It honestly feels like she's deliberately avoiding contact with me now.

Just wondering what I should do now, because this is creating a weird disconnect in me. I can't cut her out completely, because aside from sharing an extracurricular class, we are still friends with connections. But I don't know how to act around her and whether to keep staying in touch. I am trying to be indifferent to her, but my feelings make it an emotional struggle inside. What's worse for me is that she's probably not feeling any of this, hence she can happily carry on as if everything's fine. If I were to stop communicating with her, then I think the friendship I've cultivated will recede back into acquaintances which saddens me deeply.

I want to go back to when I didn't have feelings for her and avoid rekindling contact - it has all just led to emotional distraught for me!

We had organized another pending activity a few weeks back with me explicitly included. I guess this'll be a test on her stance on things - whether it goes ahead with or without me...

You sound exactly like me. I don't know what to suggest. She may come back and start answering your texts, women tend to come and go. Over time she will probably mean less and less or maybe someone else will come along and catch your eye. If it makes you happy sending her texts then I would continue to do it, just don't expect a reply.

I know what you mean when you said you can be nice, witty and funny and it doesn't do any good. I am like that. I can be super confident, funny, everything and I still get no luck with women. It's like it's meant to be and whatever I do doesn't mean a thing. On the few occasions when a woman is nice to me, I should really cherish those moments because they don't happen often. It's not about not reading signals, it's not about not going out and socializing, it's because women don't find me attractive. That is the bottom line. I could go out every night and it wouldn't do any good. That is not me being negative or having no confidence, it's a fact. What would help me is if my hair grew back, I suddenly spoke differently (voices are so important I think) and if I started to feel attactive then my confidence would improve and women would find me attractive.