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Thread: shadows

  1. #701
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    Originally Posted by quirky
    Have you told her how you feel that this robs you of your own experiencing and processing or how it can create a sense of responsibility for her emotions or eventually close you off?
    We've talked about it, yes. Lots of understanding and patience in those conversations. Encouraging.

    We both seem fairly open to examining some of our older habits...doing so in a collaborative sort of way.

    I keep thinking about the current situation in terms of logistics. Time to shift that though. Because there is more important stuff a little further down that is more illuminating.

    Thanks for your thoughts, quirky! Love that these familiar souls are still out there Getting Ready for a First Date

  2. #702
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    man...communicating is haaaaaard!! mad respect for those who have it dialed...who find a way through the often foggy realm of emotion and can stick with it. stay. listen.

    i've wanted to run from this so many times in my life. the discomfort. i can handle so many forms of discomfort...can be there with it and let it touch me. but with other people...relationships...it's a whole different story. i wanna get the hell outta there when it starts getting real. it's not a simple thing. because people hear what they want to hear. hear what they think they hear. hear what they've heard before...or what they didn't hear before. they don't actually hear what you say. they hear the words...but they don't understand. i hear the words...and i don't understand. we all do this.

    there is sense to made though if two people care enough to get to the bottom of it. patience. kindness. love.

    my dear...i'm sorry you've felt this for such a long time. i'm sorry we didn't get to the bottom of it sooner. i wonder if maybe it's too late. too much sadness. too much feeling of hurt.

    i can express a feeling...and it's just that...a feeling. it's not an indictment. it's not a fact. it doesn't point to actions or outcomes. it's just a feeling. its expression wishes only to be understood. for the sake of clarity.

    i've been more worried about being honest than i think i've acknowledged. honest emotionally. i'll share something...but it's often not the real root for me. i avoid it. sometimes i try...but most of my experience hasn't been all that good when i do it. the responses. things break down. sometimes to the point where it's impossible to continue a dialogue. that's part of the reason it's easier to write sometimes. this kind of exchange leaves a bit of an opening. takes something out of the equation.

    there's also a fear. this has become less of the equation though. i'm more willing to go beyond the fear of what could happen if i express something. so maybe that will help. emotions can't be helped in many situations. knowing to expect them...that knowledge goes a long way.

    this is challenging. but i feel lucky to be sharing this particular experience with someone who is so patient. who wants to learn. wants to find some sort of resolution. wants to be present for some genuine human connection. something real.

    thank you...

    i friggin' love you...

  3. #703
    Platinum Member journeynow's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by 90_hour_sleep
    i can express a feeling...and it's just that...a feeling. it's not an indictment. it's not a fact. it doesn't point to actions or outcomes. it's just a feeling. its expression wishes only to be understood. for the sake of clarity.
    Right. When expressed, it is information shared. Understanding by others isn't a given, though. We all filter through our personal experience and understandings and definitions. (What I mean by love may not be what the other person means by love, but we can't really fully know that.) Still, sharing information, that can be good.

    Feelings expressed, communication shared, doesn't necessarily overshadow this:

    Originally Posted by 90_hour_sleep
    patience. kindness. love.
    Being human. Not always a smooth ride, but What A Ride!

  4. #704
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    truth is we never know...do we...

    so true, JN. one helluva ride. and it just keeps going...and going.

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  6. #705
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    hmm..

    feeling distressed by the role of sexuality in this world. all the conversation (read: monologue) about sexual abuse, harassment, exploitation. so much finger-wagging...and appeals to victimization. so polarized.

    there's a lot wrong with the current system. there are a lot of men exploiting positions of authority. exploiting the patriarchy. can't/won't deny that. there are many victims. too many. a lot of pain. a lot of trauma. a lot of people who have been emotionally scarred.

    a lot of men who have been wrongly accused. school teachers who have been accused of child exploitation. lives ruined.

    men and women who perpetuate these highly sexualized roles.

    guh.

    i have a close female friend who has recently been offered a new car by a much older male friend. they are friends. definitely. and there has been this discussion about what the exchange means. it's been described to me as a fatherly gesture. i know her. i know the man a little (although in a very limited capacity). no strings attached. he doesn't want anything in return. only to help someone who could use a hand. yes...money is a bit tight. circumstances are a little tough. a safe, reliable vehicle would be a pretty great opportunity to pass on. he has a lot of money. she doesn't.

    i feel some physical discomfort when i think about it. ill actually. it's a heavy gut feeling. trying to figure out why. where it comes from. am i jealous? of his ability to provide? envious of her ability to gain this kind of favour so easily? angry because something that other people have to work for is being handed to her? i question whether she's used her sexuality to her advantage. and what that means. is she taking advantage of this man? regardless of whether or not he wants to be taken advantage of. does she even know it, if that's the case?

    i saw her today before she left to go look at vehicles. wearing mascara. second time since i've known her that she's worn makeup. strange.

    ultimately, it's not really any of my business.

    i've been thinking a lot about the dynamics of sexuality. of how women are often just a culpable as men when it comes to perpetuating this continued sexual power-struggle (and beyond. the whole patriarchal system). some say, why not? why not use the assets i have as a woman to play a game that is pretty dominated by masculinity. others wonder how this serves women as a whole. how does playing the game set the stage for the generations to come.

    i think it's unfavourable. so sticky. maybe a woman feels the only assets she has are the sexual cards. and she does herself a disservice by not playing them. and yet by playing them, she's saying that it's okay to engage in that game.

    it's not actually a game. but it sure feels that way. the way people talk about it.

    i feel gross.

  7. #706
    Platinum Member itsallgrand's Avatar
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    Sorry you are feeling gross.

    I can understand that.

  8. #707
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    Originally Posted by itsallgrand
    Sorry you are feeling gross.

    I can understand that.
    I appreciate your ability to listen from afar.
    Thank you...

  9. #708
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    Originally Posted by itsallgrand
    Sorry you are feeling gross.

    I can understand that.
    I appreciate your ability to listen from afar.
    Thank you...

  10. #709
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    feeling a bit sticky this morning...
    unrelated to the season. this is something i haven't engaged with for years.

    the car thing came up again...feeling some resentment cropping up for this person.

    relationship questions also. really on the fence. so many swirling thoughts and feelings have been surfacing lately. more than lately, really...it's been months of this. and it's not what i'd consider ''bad''. there is still this uncanny degree of space for talking things through. all that kindness and patience. but i still feel weary about it. trying to figure out if what i've been feeling is much of my own baggage being triggered. a lot of it seems to do with people for me. other people. other friends. other connections. if i'm really honest, i've been feeling resentment towards her also. like there will always be more space for the rest of life. that the other people will always come first. that she'll choose that, again and again. she chooses me too. but it feels different.

    one of those things that i feel uncomfortable expressing...because it gets to the root of need. what it means to need another person...and to feel needed. what is the point where healthy need becomes unhealthy? i think i've often avoided this altogether in my relationships, because i've viewed all need as neediness. so, now i'm grappling with that. thinking that i actually want to need and be needed. in a healthy way. but not really having the experience to know what that feels like. or what it looks like. i want to be relied on. and rely on someone. i want there to always be space to talk about what's going on. i want all of it. the good stuff, and the ugly stuff.
    i feel like running again. flight is kind of my go to when it comes to discomfort. but here i am...sitting with it again. feeling so over chasing the good stuff...and only the good stuff.

    realizing that mostly what we talk about is us. when things are tough...it's the ''us'' in our lives that is tough. i go a bit further with my own stuff (which feels endlessly ironic to me...me being the one that is sharing more). for her...everything else is great. it's just ''us'' that is challenging. and this is completely false. i know this. there are so many challenging aspects to her life. we just don't really talk about them. her daughter...there's little bits of conversation about that...but often i get the line ''we don't have to talk about that.'' makes sense to a degree. we bunged that one up. made a mistake. jumped in way too soon. and some damage has been done. so perhaps there's a reluctance to share there.

    feels like a bit of a stalemate. we're both quite open in so many ways. expressive. willing to share and to listen. but we've also been stuck in the stickier aspects of relating. me feeling like there is always time for other people...and seldom time for me. is this a REAL need for me? more time with the primary person in my life? or have i built it up to unhealthy levels of reliance? am i relying too much on one person?

    wondering if proximity will change anything. i'll be much, much closer in january. consistently closer. i still wonder if anything will change. if there will be more time. or if it'll all get swallowed up by other priorities.

    i feel conflicted. having a hard time trusting my gut. it says...let her go. but i'm wondering how much of that is my ''flight instinct'' telling me to run from this discomfort.

  11. #710
    Platinum Member reinventmyself's Avatar
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    You sound very vulnerable and having to adjust to where exactly you fit in her life. This is all new territory for you. Dating a mother of a young child is challenging.
    No matter how you slice it , if she's a good mother her child comes first. You wouldn't want it any other way. But how does that play out for you?
    Time will tell. The fact that the challenging issues seem to be taken off the table is somewhat a red flag though.
    No wonder you seem unsettled. It's the proverbial elephant in the room. Again, time will tell.

    I will share with you that in the past I've had these challenging relationships. Not saying they weren't good or they weren't worth the struggle.
    But there is something to be said to find yourself with someone where (most) everything is easy. . and it just makes sense.
    They are however, few and far between.
    In the meantime . . . .

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