Shy guys.... feeling intimidated and subtle hints being lost on you not helping?

I have been on another community forum reading these enlightening posts by shy men.

We were discussing in detail how it is that a woman is trying hard to give the guy she knows for certain likes her the green light without being too blatant or overwhelming about it.., but in many cases the guys reported that while she is trying to give the GREEN LIGHT.. he is totally missing it or them, because he just lumps eye-contact, friendliness even a touch on the arm as common to any woman and one guy even went so far as to say: she turned out to be a lesbian!

Many guys said they need so much more encouragement than the woman even realises because, not only is he fearful - especially where he is seriously intimidated by her looks - because of a paralyzing fear of rejection that caues those killer nerves to kick in the second he even thinks about approaching her, but he remains unsure because of subtle hints, that to the woman are not subtle at all!!!!??! Yeah, figure that one out..!

It was confirmed that even looking a lot at him (and nobody else!!!!) was not enough! Repeatedly saying hello.. was not enough! Trying to engage him in a friendly conversation with lots of meaningful, held eye contact - is not enough! ..Even making physical contact on the shoulder or arm - was not enough!

This begs the obvious next question: what on earth is? (Meant kindly of course).

Apparently, you guys just don't get it..!

Subtle clues and hints - like these - are vague! Confusing or just totally LOST on you! Most men confirmed this!!

Here are some thoughts from shy guys that I have paraphrased to prove it

`guys really are that blind It might make them more confident about themselves but not about asking someone out'

`Guys have no clue about subtle HINTS!'

Guys feel they are really putting themselves out there for rejection and signs women think are strong indicators for him that he's okay to approach and won't get rejected are just not strong, they are subtle or not even seen to him'

We wonder why you can't just be clear in your communication, don't give mixed signals and instead don't just come out and say it?'

Whatever you can add to this to help shy girls with comfortable (okay, as realistically comfortable as possible.. considering how awkward and stomach-churning this process always is) ways to give a very shy guy the GREEN LIGHT are welcome!

What signs EXACTLY from a girl DO YOU NEED that

a) don't make her feel she is going to look cheap and easy (this is a very real consideration guys and one you should not ignore! It is on many girls/women's minds 24-7 & is part of maintaining our sense of self-respect ie valuing our worth as human beings and women)?

b) DON'T increase the intimidation but could be read by a very shy guy terrified of rejection as a DEFINITE green light(s)?

c) leave her still feeling romantic while you guys get clear enough signs that you cannot mistake for ambiguous/ as meaning anything else?

As women.. we have a VERY HARD BALANCE to strike not to intimidate and `take over' in the initial stages and yet allow you guys to keep some degree of self-respect as a man? Yet we know you might have been hurt, be fearful of rejection and so on.. so we are sensitive to these feelings and we don't also want to feel like a preying mantis/man-eater..!

Also, if you are a very romantic male, we as women not only do not want to destroy those lovely subtle feelings and great ideas you have by jumping in with too much too soon in terms of saying the feelings are mutual and neither do we want to spoil our enjoyment of those initial gestures of romance that are one of the best things about a guy approaching us and that add to the joy and excitement of a man making the first move & asking us out!

Being the first to initiate so much of it when you supposedly struggle so much with subtle signs is a bit of a romance-killer - perhaps very shy guys lacking in confidence and intimidated - don't understand this, so we don't come out with obvious things & don't realise we are even in a catch-22! Perhaps men don't realise that about us! That we need that romance (or at least I do, I won't make assumptions and speak for all women) but yet, we appreciate that as guys you may not see the green lights and want to help you..!!

As well, I once heard a very shy man say: I wanted to do something romantic for a woman but I was concerned it was too forward? I knew she liked me, but I just didn't know how to reciprocate and was scared of blowing it big time because I saw her as the woman of my dreams.. the type of woman I really wanted to be with and take home to meet my mum etc

Suggestions to resolve both dilemmas welcome!

I have been wrong so many times. Women I thought liked me didn't. And when that happened I felt stupid.

If a woman literally said, ' I like you, I want to date you' - only then would I believe she actually liked me.

Awfull attitude to have but when your 42 and only been on a few dates in your life, it's hard to have a different one.

I have been wrong so many times. Women I thought liked me didn't. And when that happened I felt stupid.

 

If a woman literally said, ' I like you, I want to date you' - only then would I believe she actually liked me.

 

Awfull attitude to have but when your 42 and only been on a few dates in your life, it's hard to have a different one.

Thank you so much for your response - that was really sweet to be that honest!

You actually have helped a lot.. because I have had a guy say to me - if that guy over there likes you - he's worried because of the way you look and your confidence that you can't possibly like him back & the only question that came in to my mind was:

Why would he think I didn't like him??

I may think only positive thoughts about the man concerned, but you have confirmed what I suspected: he is questioning why I would like him. I have always stuck by the importance of humility and although confidence may seem a contradiction to shy I have been told that is intimidating to him, nevertheless I suspected he was thinking what you were..

If you don't mind elaborating further, that'd be really lovely but if it's too private, then I understand.

Other than ''Yes..i want to jump your bones now!!!'' ](*,) Let's make a list of things that a VERY SHY TOTALLY ANXIOUS MAN WOULD RECOGNIZE as hints of her feelings for him?

Here's another thought to broaden the picture further - a quote from a male friend:

Men who like the chase, like exactly that - the chase - the challenge, not any real relationship itself'.

I have been chased endlessly by guys, but as I got older I found that the chasers - often seemingly charismatic, confident and full of the big gestures - were not romantic once they got me. They were selfish and darn right arrogant. They took me for granted and treated me like I was worthless - I am not tarnishing all chasers with the same brush.. I am obviously speaking from my own experience only ..but these are a lot of experiences. Most of them were hyper-unkind and critical and were like children in a toy shop behaving as if they wanted to throw me accross the room like some kind of worthless toy that did not entertain them enough! Suffice to say, I dumped every one of them and most of them came crawling back, begging me for a second chance but I never took them back because they were full of empty promises and in one case I remember well - while I did not say in any way I was taking the guy back, he had the audacity to think it was a given because I let him in to have a hot drink, say his piece then be on his way! - it was no surprise to me that within twenty minutes of sitting at my kitchen table he was back to speaking to me like trash, criticising me and tantruming. He ended up sat in my doorway blocking me opening it crying saying he couldn't live without me! - Can't believe I just shared this and while it brings tears to my eyes, I hope it helps any very shy guys reading this that we women want to be treated well and while some put up with the `bad boys' many of us, certainly me, don't want to be deceived by bold gestures that turn in to being treated every bit the opposite to romantic and being very badly hurt.

I admit I was confused, blind, naive - call it what you will - but I hold my hands up and I have now realised that being chased is not necessarily an indicator of how serious a guy is about you or will bode well for how well you are treated in the future.

The friend I mention above said her father was approached by her mother and they were together for over fifteen years.

None of my chasers lasted long at all, except one, and the one I gave a second chance to took it for granted and mistreated me all over again so I ended up putting up with him for far too long.

They were harsh lessons but are now making me appreciate that you shy guys, usually very much the opposite of guys who hurt me without a second thought, while I might not be able to take too much of the initiative, they I might like to - I more so appreciate the need to understand what you need as certain GREEN LIGHTS to make a move & I am willing to further to help this process..

Other than ''Yes..i want to jump your bones now!!!'' ](*,) Let's make a list of things that a VERY SHY TOTALLY ANXIOUS MAN WOULD RECOGNIZE as hints of her feelings for him?

- do! Let's go for it!

I wait with eager anticipation!!

At risk of posting too much to my own thread - there is one thing that is at the forefront of my mind about all of this:

I am not slighting any guy that does see things from mainly his point of view as a man but it isn't helpful when men AND women do this, hence this new thread - to help us see things from each other's perspective.. there are definitely major differences in thinking & I am trying to close that gap, because I don't subscribe to trying to change men - neither should it be vice-versa hopefully..! I am just saying that I have read so many forum posts about similar overlapping topics and it is evident we both clearly struggle to understand what it is each other needs! OR we struggle to DO IT.. whichever or both as the case may be.

As a woman I want to see this change and to change how I think to help a guy, & likewise.., I'd like to see men compromise too and be able to see why those GREEN LIGHTS - that have perhaps left them single - aren't and/or haven't been forthcoming!

So called signs of interest:

Women saying 'hello' - I can't see how this is anything but been friendly. Maybe in a nightclub / pub it means something, not at work. I would lose count of the times female customers say 'hello' to me in one hour.

Women smiling - Same as above. It's nice but nothing more.

Women asking me questions - Just friendliness really or just something to say / talk about.

Women been flirty - Just fun, nothing more. Women like to flirt. A woman last week called me the 'love of her life' - it was just a joke.

Women making comments about other women and me - I get loads of these. Remarks about me and some woman usually a single one. I did at one point think it meant something. Are they match making ? Don't think so. Just jokes / pranks / mischief.

Women asking if I'm going to a social event - Does it mean they want me to go ? Don't think so. I've been nattered to places by women and when I go they don't even talk to me or notice me. Another thing I've learned over the years !

Women putting make up / apperance - It means something but probably not directed at me.

Women paying compliments - Possible might mean something. Mainly because I don't ever get any. lol !

God that was depressing ! lol !

Wow! ..so now I know none of these signs mean anything or at least anything definite! What things

DO tell you she definitely likes you

& isn't just being: friendly, joking with no interest and certainly no romantic interests! or using you!! (that hurts me to read you had this happen to you,.., I also get the impression it happens a lot - inviting a guy out then ignoring him,..Grrrrr

What signs that you have seen or probably haven't seen, are GREEN LIGHTS that could not be mistaken for jokes or leading you on etc?!

Thanks

Long post, so I won't quote it here. Just a few thoughts in no particular order, from a guy who has been shy with women all my life:

I suspect shyness might be a variant of asperger's syndrome, where we miss subtle interpersonal cues. Better to keep your mouth shut and be suspected of being an idiot, than to open it and remove all doubt.

We're utterly terrified of blowing it. Does she smile at me? Maybe she smiles at everybody. Touch my arm? Maybe she's just touchy-feely? How can I respond without insulting her? What if she publicly humiliates me? What if she goes to all her friends and laughs with them about that dork who actually thought she liked him? What if she's a co-worker? Do I really want to risk an awkward meeting with my boss and the sexual harassment officer? What if she really does turn out to be a lesbian? It's probably safer to do nothing.

Shyness is all about not taking risks. Also about not drawing attention to yourself. I expect you see it a lot in people who were abused or bullied when they were younger.

I think a lot of shy guys think of themselves as losers that no woman would actually want to be with. If he thinks she's friendly to him, he's probably just misinterpreting.

Subtle hints can get lost in the noise. In college, I had a female friend who used to take me up to her apartment, strip naked, and kiss me passionately. But she just wanted to be friends. How am I supposed to recognize a subtle hint compared to that?

There was a cute receptionist where I worked once, who always greeted me with a very friendly "Hi, Capilot!" every time I walked in. Just before I worked up the nerve to try to talk to her and maybe ask her out, I found out that she was married. Turned out she was just extra friendly.

In fact, I'd venture to say that during my life, almost every woman I thought was interested in me turned out not to be the case.

Other than ''Yes..i want to jump your bones now!!!'' ](*,) Let's make a list of things that a VERY SHY TOTALLY ANXIOUS MAN WOULD RECOGNIZE as hints of her feelings for him?

The first woman I ever slept with seduced me by bringing her to her apartment to play with the new kittens her cat had had. We were sitting on her bed and she started stroking my arm. I must've sat there paralyzed in shock for ten minutes.

Suggestion: give him a back rub. Start kissing him.

From another thread: invite him over to watch TV, lie down on the couch together.

seduced me.. on her bed

Can I be honest? As a shy woman approaching a very shy guy who can't see the signs.. that is not what I regard as a balance..! I'm not assuming she's a man-eater, but this girl was `having you' no matter what..!

I think what I and so many others are trying to achieve here is what I said in the post originally: a balance of communication through signs/body language etc BEFORE that stage of being on a bed with the other person all over you!

So just to bring this back down to earth where the girl, as in your case, does not blatantly seduce the man, we are looking in this post for what the girl needs to communicate to the very shy guy (way before the stage of shock and paralysis at being approached you've talked about) that will help him get up the nerve to approach her without any underlying fears, overwhelming nerves or doubts and in full confidence that the signs she has given him are not in any way ambiguous or just `friendly' with no other romantic feelings beyond that!

This is important to guys and girls to know, especially where the guy has liked the girl for ages, but is struggling with doubts as to whether the feelings are mutual!

Putter....thanks for the list WHAT NOT TO DO what about what does work???????

The first woman I ever slept with seduced me by bringing her to her apartment to play with the new kittens her cat had had. We were sitting on her bed and she started stroking my arm. I must've sat there paralyzed in shock for ten minutes.

 

Suggestion: give him a back rub. Start kissing him.

 

From another thread: invite him over to watch TV, lie down on the couch together.

Capilot..he's a farid of me..the chances of getting him on a date is basically nada. You have to understand this man unravels when i walk into a room. He can only look at me from far away. When we talk its bcuz i initiate and he can't relax, crack a smile..sometimes it looks like he's in a friggin trance. He is fine with EVERYONE ELSE its just me he can't relax around..he looks so scared and really looks like he can't think of anything to say or do when i am around him!!!! Does this make sense to you????

I'll catch him watching me..even when he's talking to someone else, i feel his eyes on me when i walk away..he's a booty man apparently..and he really just comes undone when he sees me walk in his direction or just in a room NOT EVEN TO SEE HIM just being in the room he's in...you could feel him tense up!!!!

The think is HE COMES BACK FOR MORE he shows up places that i'm in for no reason..he doesn't need to be there but since he knows my schedule he shows up..like whe i go for lunch..he doesn't order food or eat whenn i'm in the cafe but he will spend 15-20 min in there watching me..chatting with whomever will talk to him BUT HE DOESN'T EAT OR ORDER FOOD EVER he just stands in the corner facing me..why?????!

The one time i touched hm in a playful way on his knee..we were sitting..he turned bright red, could brely form a sentence and then walked out of the room not hearing at least TWO PEOPLE say hello to him and trying to get his attention..he just walked away..looking straight shead like he had tunnel vision!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

I've caught him waiting for me, staring at me through windows..twice, driving past my home, etc. the thing is he can't seem to ''handle'' being in a room with me unless i am far away from, him and he can just look.

The thing is i make him so intolerably anxious that its painful at times to be around him.

His fear is so crippling..how do you suggest i break him out of this..

ANYONE?????

Hi Shygal,

Yes, the focus here again is: green lights! What are they?

What are they in a man's eyes who is so are incredibly shy and nervous that `he could barely form a sentence'?

..so that we can give clear signs/body language to them Capilot that they don't have to keep suffering falling apart - ie a green light that will calm their nerves and help them not fall to pieces but approach, knowing with confidence that as you say Capilot - the girl will not humiliate him and he can relax knowing the risk won't backfire?

I baked for him AGAIN at Christmas time..he freaked out..hid away but then came around ALOT again so he knows..he's picking up on it he's just too frightened to pull himself together!!!!!

HIS ANXIETY IS CRIPPLING!!!! I JUST DON'T GET WHY!!! I AM HARMLESS, PETITE..HE'S A FRIGGIN FOOT TALLER THAN ME==HE'S 6'3''!!!!!! HE COULD SQUASH ME WITH HIS FOOT LOL!!!!!!!!!!

I will never believe that deep down he doesn't know. I know it, i feel it!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

I am just so baffled, where does the anxiety come from..to this degree its unbearable..i don't get it.

And anytime i get fed up, hurt and decide to just ignore him...i stop saying hello, act like i am indifferent or just don't see him there..he comes on even stronger--for him that is--to get my attention back!!!!

Then he will be in my face more, showing up where i am in the building, forcing me to see him, be in my face, etc. so what doe sthat say to you????

Can I be honest? As a shy woman approaching a very shy guy who can't see the signs.. that is not what I regard as a balance..! I'm not assuming she's a man-eater, but this girl was `having you' no matter what..!

True, but in my case, that's what it took. I honestly thought we were just going over there to see the kittens.

Anyway, the thing is that shy guys are paralyzed by the fear that they're misinterpreting the signals. It's really not a bad idea to say how you feel in plain English. You know, "ummm, I just wanted to say I really like you." Then give him a few minutes to recover from the shock.

Hmmm; re-reading your posts, this guy might be hopeless. We're beyond simple shyness and well into serious anxiety here.

I suspect shyness might be a variant of asperger's syndrome, where we miss subtle interpersonal cues. Better to keep your mouth shut and be suspected of being an idiot, than to open it and remove all doubt.

- I tend to agree, I cannot prove it as a fact, but I have done a lot of research over the last few days which seem to poin to this and communicated with many men online who have said they suspect they have asperger's or they have been diagnosed with asperger's before or after they got in to relationships where the partner helped them realise it eg those whose girlfriends were in the psychology or another related profession.

We're utterly terrified of blowing it.

- this comes up a lot & I have begun to see a correlation between this and the behaviour of shy men not approaching.. taking the example I gave: a man who has been crazy about me for months but terrified to approach had basically said he didn't want to do anything TOO FORWARD (I have it on good authority) because of this reason.. & this seems to be the sole reason that stounds out, to my surprise, above all the other reasons.. as strong as the other reasons might be.

I am glad he thinks that highly of me, but I do sometimes think he is judging himself too harshly - perhaps this is true for you and other very shy men! I get the impression it's like he wants it to be `just perfect' & a moment I will remember forever - which is at the centre of it - so incredibly romantic and I have realised that I love him the way he is, so don't want to try to change his nature - this is part of who he really is and why I like him so much, so the only thing I can focusing on doing is finding ways that give him the green light in a way that communicates time is of the essence not perfection (not that there's any rush, but he is creating a massive pressure on himself by delaying things because of this perceived need to get it right, get it perfect): `whatever you do is fine, there's no invisibly impossibly high standard, you won't blow it if you choose this gesture over that or this sentence over that..' Does that make sense Capilot?

Does she smile at me? Maybe she smiles at everybody. Touch my arm? Maybe she's just touchy-feely? How can I respond without insulting her? What if she publicly humiliates me? What if she goes to all her friends and laughs with them about that dork who actually thought she liked him? What if she's a co-worker? Do I really want to risk an awkward meeting with my boss and the sexual harassment officer? What if she really does turn out to be a lesbian? It's probably safer to do nothing.

- I definitely get all of this + see why it could be read both ways in his eyes, especially with that huge list of very legitimate/valid concerns going on..

But it all boils down to risk and what you say about this:

Shyness is all about not taking risks.

- or if he reverse the sentence to help us ladies: ` shyness is all about taking risks'!

Also about not drawing attention to yourself. I expect you see it a lot in people who were abused or bullied when they were younger.

- this, I definitely get.. we are both the same. Neither of us wants the attention, even positive attention

- we are intensely private people, regardless of the criticisms that we are shy like it is an illness - neither of us like it, so we have kept our feelings masked and revealed them only when we haven't got an audience. This has made it doubly tricky to be very open and direct - IF we were to be that brave and bold - but it still boils down to: he needs a green light to say - it's okay - whatever you do, I won't trample on your feelings, tell your friends (one of my biggest anxieties) or humiliate you in any other way & how to tell a man you know is mad about you: I won't reject you?? Now that's a tall order..! One I was hoping this post will help get answers to!!!!!

Subtle hints can get lost in the noise.. ..she was just extra friendly.

- it seems to me you lovely guys are in No Man's Land a lot of the time, continually wondering:

In fact, I'd venture to say that during my life, almost every woman I thought was interested in me turned out not to be the case.

Any GREEN LIGHTS you can suggest that will pave the way for making yours and other shy guys' road smoother in terms of not feeling like they are trying to navigate in the dark?

I am starting to wonder one thing actually - the fact that I found out he is not sure HOW to make the first romantic gesture, indicates to me `he already knows' - so my GREEN LIGHTS were OKAY! But that he is battling with the `right way' forward, as he sees it!??

Does that make sense.

But back to your point, if I have this wrong:

It's really not a bad idea to say how you feel in plain English. Then give him a few minutes to recover from the shock.

- I think you are right & I am wondering whether or not to tell him I like him - even if he does reel in shock - I am just thinking to keep it simple and say: I like you, followed by a very genuine reason why! THAT is individual and any woman can do that based on what she knows about her particular very shy guy.. it should bolster his confidence up much higher, to feel..

yep, okay, I haven't got this wrong, she's spelt it out - I can go for it?

Right or wrong? If that is what is needed: it would seem I am right.

Your post has really started to answer my question,thank you.

I am about as shy as they get, but here is what I typically do.

Stage One

I act extremely nonchalant, mysterious, sometimes just plain incognito. If I notice a girl taking notice of me(VERY rarely happens, or I don't see it), Regardless I ignore it(Way too shy to start anything at this point.) If she starts giving me the typical signs of attraction I ignore it for a few more days to see if she continues on. If it was a one day thing then I simply play brick wall again. If the signs last a good number of days or weeks I will start to socialize with her very friendly like. At some point I will disclose personal information about myself, to build trust and understanding with her.

Stage two

I simply ask her. "uhhh.. would you maybe want to hang out sometime? or something?" If things continue on well and friendship/feelings build I will just flat out tell her how I feel at the end of an outing. After telling her, I leave so she can spend the rest of the day to think about it. The next time I see her I evaluate her attitude towards me. If I feel there is something there, I ask her out on a real date and take things from there.

Kind of a stupid way to pick up a woman but hey, I'm cool like that.

I really like you.

ps - this has pointed out another invaluable learning point that illustrates an age-old observation (generalising here, of course - noone shoot me! ) - women can be emotionally complicated with their expectations and analysis of matters of the heart - hence why guys can be so baffled by us so much of the time! whereas, men are quite plainly: SIMPLE - in the kindest sense of the word and we women, because we perhaps keep forgetting this, don't always realise or remember that dating is therefore.. a minefield for you guys, while for us it is filled with frustration that you can't work out the CLUES to our puzzles.. when in fact, all you need is no subtle hints or perhaps hints at all but simple, as you say, plain statement of like or dislike. END of.

Perhaps that is the end of this thread - because for me as the poster.., it has answered my question.

Glad your happy](*,)

Glad your happy](*,)

THANKS - I am. Question fully answered - even if I answered some of it myself, I couldn't have done it without capilot.

His posts helped me clarify everything in my mind..

Nice feeling!

Anyway, the thing is that shy guys are paralyzed by the fear that they're misinterpreting the signals. It's really not a bad idea to say how you feel in plain English. You know, "ummm, I just wanted to say I really like you." Then give him a few minutes to recover from the shock.

What if he's not interested though? Then we are the ones looking like a fool. I'd rather give subtle signs and hope that he could at least try and give subtle signs back. Surely a shy guy can do that. You don't need to dive it at the deep end and look like an idiot - if both people give out subtle signs, surely eventually you can both slowly build it up.

What about asking the shy guy out to something? He may interpret that as being friendly too but it seems like a good way to show interest w/o being over aggressive or looking easy.

Edit: I don't mean to extend the thread. You've got your question answered at least.