Anxiety and Job Searching

Hi all - not sure if this will be a journal or a post. but either way, I have anxiety. the last week has been really rough. I finished my PhD a few months ago and am looking for jobs. I guess i won't bore you with too many details but my ego had some big blows this week and I feel like my anxiety is getting out of control. I was on anti-anxiety meds for a long time and i quit after i graduated. Figured "oh, this is the end of all that stress!" no. oh no. job hunting. maybe I should get back on the pills?

I don't know - I guess I am worried about finding a job, am I good enough, etc...? I wanted to apply to a prestigious fellowship but my advisor told me not to bother, that i wasn't a strong enough candidate. ouch. but you know, she was probably right.

I guess I just have to keep applying to jobs I find appealing and give them a chance. I dunno. Maybe I made a mistake and shouldn't have gotten this degree in the first place?

sigh.

Would it help to know that I think a lot of people in your position go through the same feelings? I was speaking to someone last semester who was just about to finish his PhD - in philosophy. He was starting to wonder if the last 4 years of his life were a waste of time too - starting to worry about what he'd do with it etc.

I think its natural to feel that way because you have to transition from the learning environment to the working one - and they really are such very different environments that it can be scary during that transition. I think you have the perfect approach - keep appying for jobs you find appealing and give them a chance. Try different ones until you find you can see yourself being happy with over the long term.

I don't think for a second that you made a mistake. You wouldnt be the person you are today without that degree. The learning we do (whether at uni or on the field) is a big part of who we are. It's never a waste .. and no, I don't think yours is a mistake either. Remember - you arent starting to hate the field, are you? You don't find it boring? Those things might indicate it might have been a mistake. Instead, you feel anxiety about the transition. That's natural.. and does not say that the field you chose is wrong for you.

When people get their PhD instead of working first - or just working - that does take them out of the field longer and.. it must be an odd experience.. its like going from being the big fish to the little fish overnight - but with people expecting (and yourself expecting) you to have all the knowledge of a big fish. Does that make sense? You have heaps of theoretical knowledge but not so much on the practical side. So that makes your "transition" experience a little different to the one your friends or family members may have had .. but its still something many people go through.

I'm familiar with Ph.D.s and the job situation in science. New graduates almost always post-doc or take unsatisfactory jobs in order to build up the experience necessary to get a good job. If you like your field, don't give up!

Why not apply for the fellowship anyhow? Worth a shot!

Why not apply for the fellowship anyhow? Worth a shot!

I'd have 10 days to write a really spectacular 10 page research proposal. it's just not going to happen. i feel bad because i told one prof that i want to work for that i was going to apply, and then told him the next day that i changed my mind because of how intense the competition is. as it is, i'm super stressed with just the work I am doing now (I have a sort of temporary job, finishing up some loose ends in lab).

my labmate today told me that i need to 'put my feet on the ground' and stop trying for some of these lofty positions. he suggested i use our connections to some labs in the US that are very good, but i'm just not that interested. i really am looking at international jobs. which of course, are a little harder to get because. i didn't do job searching while writing my dissertation like some of my friends did. i guess partially because i wanted a break. partially because i just couldn't handle that kind of stress. i don't want to be a research professor. just researcher. or whatever. i'm looking at postdocs anyways, 2-3 year positions.

yeah, i suppose any major life transition is bound to come with some anxiety. it is normal but it's still been a rough week. my advisor sent me a link to a job posting - for a master's level technician!! what the heck did i do a phd for!? I think she was doing it out of a good place, trying to help me find a job, but seriously, such an inappropriate job. i don't know whether to feel offended, like she is saying that's what i'm good for or what.

Remember we all have to start somewhere annd ur job searh is just that. Go out and look for jobs online wherever. Its time to out ur hat in the ring. U won't find the perfect job the first time etc. This takes years of working jobs that aren't the right fit but remember u have to start somewhere.

Can't really talk, not having experience in your field - but in my old field - a PhD without job experience is.. well even though you have a PhD - people don't consider you to be at the level a PhD would be at. But if you get some work experience (even if that starts off as pretty ordinary or beginner level type work) then - if you add the PhD to that work experience - suddenly you are very employable.

Does that make sense? I don't think your PhD is a waste at all but perhaps the value of it won't kick in until after you get some kind of work experience and thats why all these people are encouraging you to take just whatever is available for the time being - and once you have some experience then you can apply for the loftier positions?

In my field, it's pretty much unheard of to apply for a master's level job once you have a PhD. it looks very bad on your resume and raises big red flags. Even though, a lot of the time, you'd be doing the same exact thing, or 80% of the same things, it just isn't done.

^^ ohhh

Is your advisor generally a nice person? I mean first she advises you not to try for something (and really, what's the harm in trying - you have to be in it to win it) and now asks you to do something unheard of in your field. It sounds kind of undermining. Is that potentially an issue there?

it's strange. just a few weeks ago, she passed along some job openings (at the right level for me) at prestigious universities. i don't know if she was just in a weird mood or what.

Is it the way that she's been acting that's really provoking the anxiety - or has brought it to a head? Sounds a bit like it may be.. and if so this sounds like she really has been having a bad day or was in a weird mood or something :S

But you can't really talk to her about it without being too confrontational I suppose. That's a bit crap. I'd put it down to a weird mood on her part and not at all a reflection on you and keep going as you are.. sounds like you are doing everything right (except for letting others persuade you not to apply to positions you want!)

Your advisor has been a bit of a nutcase though so I wouldn't expect anything too different from her.

I bet you will get a good job when you least expect it.

i guess you are right DN - sometimes she's very helpful and sometimes she has the strangest suggestions. i really do hope i get something good. it's a tough job market out there.

I know - been going through that myself. Now I am in the process of trying to create my own job. Any chance of you doing that?

eh, probably not. at least not right now. i guess some people do work as consultants. since i'm not geographically constrained, i should just keep looking.

Oh Annie I am so rooting for you! What things other than the meds have helped in the past- yoga? exercise? I can relate and this might sound strange but I found it easier to cope when the anxiety was focused on a particular issue rather than more generalized.

And I think it's great that you pursued this PhD - many are in the same boat as you are I'm sure.

dance and yoga help. exercise/cardio. it's hard to be worried about something when you are focusing on doing the dance move correctly.

things that are bad - too much time around the computer (!!!), sugar, caffeine. i'm definitely cutting back on the processed foods for those reasons now.

something else that doesn't sit well with me - i met a prof at a conference about 6 months ago. he was interested in having me interview with him. i told him i would be graduating in the fall. he contacted me recently asking if i was still interested in the job. i said yes. (in all honestly, i'm not entirely sure. mainly because the location is one that i find undesirable.) he asked me to send him my references. i did, and then he hasn't contacted me back. i don't think that my references are that bad, because i did have another prof agree to hire me (this is the one who doesn't have money, sigh). so, i don't know. i don't know whether to write back to this prof or not. i'm not that interested in the job, but it feels strange that i haven't heard from him. maybe he senses i'm not all that interested because i didn't ask many questions about the work?

yeah, so i feel conflicted. do i say anything? maybe he is not writing back because he didn't think that the letters were good enough? but then again, i am not so interested in the job. so maybe i should let it go? i haven't heard from him in a month.

Someone expressing interest in you, and renewing that interest at a more appropriate time a few months later, is a very positive thing! It's entirely possible that he's just been preoccupried with the doubtless many other things that he has going on since you sent him the references, or he's waiting to hear back from a funding source so he can give you a more specific answer. If it's been a month then you're perfectly entitled to contact him again; he'll just take it as a measure of how interested you are. The first post-doc I ever applied to (which was also international) I had a similar thing: they sounded keen, and then went dark. I contacted them again after a month, and it turned out that the two guys involved in making the decision simply hadn't had time to meet and discuss it yet. It took them another month after that before they finally got around to making a decision. I got that job, so clearly they didn't mind me sending them reminders every couple of weeks.

In terms of other applications, I don't need to tell you how tough it is out there in science academia at the moment. My department is actually firing people rather than hiring them. There are some jobs out there, but relatively few and with an awful lot of applicants (including some who've been made redundant from higher positions), so at the moment I would say it's (1) about volume of application (apply for everything!), and (2) about getting *something* and acquiring experience and publications, which are the key to getting something better later on.

I have a PhD in humanities (got it about 8 months ago) and while I don't regret the choice (yet!), I have come to the realization recently that it is not doing me much good either, since I don't want to continue down the academic path. I mean, I would love to have a job in an academic institution, but I want to be done with the research and the pressure of articles and everything. It's one big competition and I just KNOW I'm not into that.

Anyway, I do not even look for jobs that take on PhD level candidates....I'm very happy to look for Master's jobs, and I got turned down to the job of my dreams a week or two ago, even though I got told afterwards that I did a great job at the interview and I made the selection committee doubt. They told me this to make me feel better, but honestly I felt even worse after knowing I was so close to that job. I would've been perfect for that job, but alas, they see me as a graduate without any real job experience.

But seriously, I just want to work. I've even looked at and applied for Bachelor level jobs and would not even mind doing one, if only they'd take me. But applying for a bachelor's job with a PhD degree....heck, employers don't even look at my resume. I see my PhD as some kind of work experience and while the PhD degree does come with a lot of theoretical knowledge, I do feel that there's also practical things you learn during the 4 or 5 years you do a PhD. But they don't see it that way.

It's just one big road of frustration so far!!!

karvala - you were right. I heard back from that prof today (the one I hadn't heard from in a month after sending rec letters). he said everything looks stellar and he would like to have me there for an interview. so, i will write back yes and figure out the days.

on the downside - i was really looking forward to working abroad. well, i'm still waiting to hear back on these other applications i've put in. but it's nice to at least have someone who is interested. he also said that this money is tight but that he can figure something out - with different grants, or even a joint position.

the position would be a post-doc at a top-notch university, but to me, a not so desirable location. then again, i've never been there, so maybe if i go i would have a great time?

It might be worth taking it - it would still be an experience and you don't have to stay there forever.

yes. i'll do the interview. i think it will be in late feb or early march. i'm still waiting to hear on the other two positions i have applied for. one of them i should hear soon if i am called for an interview, the other one i am supposed to hear by april 30th, so that one is a while off....

i do feel a lot of anxiety today. one of my profs told me i should just regard this time as an adventure, rather than as a source of anxiety/nervousness. i'd like to know where i'm going, etc... be able to plan, but right now, i'm sort of sitting and waiting.

Hey Annie, I don't have any advice because I've never been in this situation, but good luck! It's understandable that this makes you anxious, I think. You just have to take it one step at a time, and try not to overwhelm yourself.