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Is it possible?

I know that some people are gay from puberty. They've always liked the same sex.

 

I know that some people deny their sexuality, living in a hetero world and being miserable.

 

I know that some people discover their attraction to the same sex latter in life. This is the group that might fall under the "turned" gay heading.

But it isn't really turning gay is it?

 

I can believe that someone might be genetically predisposed to being gay. I can believe that sexuality is fluid, and might change over time.

 

But to use the word "turned" suggests an external force, or environmental factor. Is that really possible? Say you were raised by an alcoholic, abusive father and then dated (married) one loser after another. Could that mistrust of men translate into actually developing an attraction for the same sex? It just doesn't seem possible to me. Yeah, you could be a man hater, but I don't see how that would lead to an actually physical/emotional attraction for women.

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Oh yes. . .

People can be gay from the age of puberty.

I remember this one guy at Jr. High, I always thought he was pretty girly.

Years later I see him on T.V. owning one of the top hair salons in the country with his gay partner.

 

I was like HA!

 

I knew it!

 

I have some gay friends who were just to scared to come out due to riddicule.

But they eventually came out.

Know they are accepted regardless was like a huge weight off thier shoulders.

 

Sexual preference doesn't make a person different.

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There is clear evidence that homosexuality has a [strong] genetic component.

 

I have seen no clear evidence, though, that it does NOT also have an environmental component.

 

A term you can look up for this is the "diathesis stress model" link removed

This term is usually used to refer to disorders, which homosexuality is not, but the general concept of a genetic predisposition and an environmental trigger, in varying degrees of relative importance, is still worth considering.

 

Behavior does not have to be either nature or nurture. It can be both, and the latter is very lacking in empirical data one way or the other(for obvious reasons: It is unethical and silly to suggest experimentally trying to manipulate people's sexual preferences to see what happens)

 

(credentials: non-terminal MA in psychology and an actual recent review of the literature for unrelated purposes - though please send me links to environmental factor studies if you have any!)

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but the general concept of a genetic predisposition and an environmental trigger, in varying degrees of relative importance, is still worth considering.

 

I don't think it is worth considering at all, straight people don't ask themselves why they are they way they are, so why should we?

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I do know of sad cass where men are so unattractive to women and basically never had the chance that they turned gay to have the experience of someone loving them.

 

No joke.

 

To that I would say it doesn't mean they "turned" gay. They still are whatever orientation they had before. They just happen to be in a relationship that on some level works for them.

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I don't think it is worth considering at all, straight people don't ask themselves why they are they way they are, so why should we?

 

Well said Luke. I'm just picturing it now, a cocktail party, and a gentleman there meets a lovely boy girl couple and he earnestly asks the girl "you make such a lovely couple... so when did you realise you were straight?"

 

Mind you, I used to be a stubbornly vocal member of the "sexuality is a choice" brigade... Education on the subject has caused me keep my mouth shut though, because I realise how damaging that statement can be to the LGBT rights movement. Why give marriage and rights to people because they're human rights, if these people are willingly choosing to be homosexual?

 

I still feel personally that environmental factors have played a significant role in the development of my particular sexual orientation (bisexual), but I would not dare suggest that anyone else has developed that way. I just think it's rude.

 

I know that on this particular forum, there's a lot of discussion on this subject along the lines of "is it or isn't it a choice" but everywhere else, where people are more qualified to speak on this subject, the dialogue is generally squarely within the "it's not a choice" camp. The "it's a choice" argument was chased out of town long ago I thought.

 

But one thing I would like to suggest here is that the "it's never a choice" argument is a bit male centric. It's commonly said that female sexuality is often very fluid, while male sexuality is often very black or white (gay or straight - rarely bi)... so when the accepted belief is that it's solid, and fluidity is cast aside as hocus pocus, inevitably a large propotion of women and women's sexuality is also cast aside as hocus pocus. too complicated to try to understand, so you just say women who aren't 100% Gay from birth are all frauds and that they're all really just 100% straight.

 

I think what this subject needs added to it, is not just the question of "is this person wired to like boys or girls or both or neither, and to what extent," but also "is this person wired to have a fixed sexual orientation, or a more fluid one."

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I think what this subject needs added to it, is not just the question of "is this person wired to like boys or girls or both or neither, and to what extent," but also "is this person wired to have a fixed sexual orientation, or a more fluid one."

 

well said!!

having a very fluid orientation that people like to laugh at sometimes, i couldn't agree more.

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I don't think it is worth considering at all, straight people don't ask themselves why they are they way they are, so why should we?

What makes you assume that...?

 

Maybe 50 years ago, there wasn't any sort of widely socially acceptable alternative, so they wouldn't question being heterosexual, but nowadays, I imagine many straight people do exactly this, in light of having gay friends and homosexuality being in the public discourse.

 

I cannot claim to be one of them, per se, but as a bisexual, I have certainly thought about why I am the way I am, in terms of both of my preferences, which is very close to the same thing.

 

I realise how damaging that statement can be to the LGBT rights movement. Why give marriage and rights to people because they're human rights, if these people are willingly choosing to be homosexual?

I don't understand your logic here.

 

1) A diathesis-stress model is not necessarily about choice in the first place. You don't always choose your environment.

2) Why does something being a choice have anything to do with whether or not rights should be granted to those who choose it? Whether or not I live in a suburb or a city is entirely my choice. Yet I am also granted full and unrestricted rights under the law to choose where I live. You're implying that sexual preference shouldn't be the same, if hypothetically it did happen to turn out that it was a choice? Why?

 

Homosexuals should have every single right that heterosexuals do, regardless of whether it is by choice or not. I think these are two entirely different debates.

 

I would not dare suggest that anyone else has developed that way. I just think it's rude.

Assuming somebody did suggest this (I didn't - I said there wasn't enough evidence either way to say), if they had evidence to back it up, how would it be "rude?"

 

Developmental psychology is a science, not a point of etiquette.

 

I know that on this particular forum, there's a lot of discussion on this subject along the lines of "is it or isn't it a choice" but everywhere else, where people are more qualified to speak on this subject, the dialogue is generally squarely within the "it's not a choice" camp. The "it's a choice" argument was chased out of town long ago I thought.

And as somebody who does have formal qualification on the subject, I am telling you that the issue is more complex that just choice vs. not choice. Environmental factors can be both sought out and forced upon you in complicated ways. And they can (or rather, almost always do) also coexist with genetic factors. It's much more common for something to be, say, "23%" choice (in an actually unmeasurable way, typically) than 100% or 0%, and it can change for every individual.

 

Even if somebody found a literal, isolated, "sex orientation gene," that would not be sufficient evidence to say that sexual orientation is entirely genetic, or even necessarily mostly genetic.

 

It's commonly said that female sexuality is often very fluid, while male sexuality is often very black or white (gay or straight - rarely bi)

I have seen research that female sexuality is more fluid, but not in the way you are talking about here.

 

The research I've seen was about how easily women are able to change their sexual preference over time, not about how distributed they are accross the gay-straight continuum.

 

It's possible that both are true. I'd love to read up on studies of what you're saying, if you have some.

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Mind you, I used to be a stubbornly vocal member of the "sexuality is a choice" brigade... Education on the subject has caused me keep my mouth shut though, because I realise how damaging that statement can be to the LGBT rights movement. Why give marriage and rights to people because they're human rights, if these people are willingly choosing to be homosexual?

 

That's the thing, though. It's not damaging at all. Whether sexuality is or is not a choice does not dictate whether it is right or wrong. And I think that's something that even most GLBT people forget when we get too wrapped up in arguing on the terms of our opponents. We should be saying loud and clear that even if we "decided" to be attracted to the same sex (which I don't think we do) that it would still be 100% okay.

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I really don't see how the environment we grew up in can have an affect on our sexual orientation, growing up I loved sports, working on cars,fixing stuff and did a lot of yard work and still turned out gay.

 

In a model where sexual orientation is a function of genetics plus environmental triggers, perhaps you just had a very high genetic predisposition. Thus, hardly any trigger was required.

 

Anecdotal evidence cannot disprove this theory or the effects of environment in general. You would need a controlled experiment or a very very cleverly designed observational study, which so far, have not been conducted to my knowledge.

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hmmm... I would never have considered myself bisexual before my gf and I got together. The thought never really occurred to me. However, I never liked to identify myself as straight either because to me that implied that I liked men, which I don't. I don't really like either. I mostly identify my sexuality based on the person I'm with. With a woman, I felt like a lesbian, with a guy I feel straight, and when I'm with no one, I feel like I don't have a sexuality.

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I don't have a stance on whether it's a choice or not. Frankly, I don't care. However, I actually don't like how we keep on insisting that it isn't a choice, that we were born this way and there's nothing we can do about it. It makes it sound like we have some disease that we can't help, and people just have to feel sorry for us.

 

Screw that. If it's choice then I proudly choose to be the way I am and I would never change it.

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Ive been asking myself this same question... I always thought girls were pretty but i never pictured myself dating or having a sexual experience with one until my late late teens.

 

And its kind of been a snowball effect thats going on with me right now.. Its almost like Ive lived enough to feel that straight men are a certain way. Based on what I PERSONALLY have experienced its like they are so concerned with looks and sex that they fail to see the person underneath alot of the time, and that kind of hurts me. It makes me cringe when I ask a boyfriend why he loves me and he says "i dont know I just do".

 

Sometimes I feel like I could figure out any straight guy from the get go, and figure out how to get his interest (I think all us girls know how to get a straight guys interest) and that makes me a little.. well, alot less attracted to them.

 

I dont know... I feel like I'm turning gay sometimes. maybe Im just confused.

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taken from this site:

link removed

 

Part of the attraction that men feel to other men (and women to other women) may be a healthy drive to become like other men (and other women). Once you recognize the reasons behind your attraction and interpret them correctly, you can use this drive to your advantage. Channel this energy into bonding and healing by developing strong, appropriate relationships with others of your gender. As healthy friendships develop, inappropriate sexual attractions diminish. When you learn that your peers do love and accept you, the intensity of your need for same-sex closeness will diminish. It will not go away because men always need the love and brotherhood of other men (and women need the love and sisterhood of other women), but when your needs are being met legitimately, homosexual behavior will hold less appeal—and that is a sign of real change.

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