Another one

A few months back I posted about how I liked this guy and didn't know if he was gay or not, or how to even say hi to him.

Well, after that, we did become friends. One time he just came up to me and we started talking about stuff. Then we hung out more and more, I stayed at this place overnight, we met up with some other friends from work, but mostly we've become so attached to each other that we spend every minute together, that is, if we see each other at work.

He's been at my place over the weekends now a couple of times. Today I've just come back from seeing him off at central station. He already considers me a best friend, and I do feel the same about him.

The thing is, even from the beginning of the friendship, some things have been awkward. Right after only a few days of hanging out, he asked me "You are into women, right?" Cowardly, I said "What else?"

He talked about girls, but rather in a purely sexual (and somewhat vulgar) way. Whenever he inquired if I would "screw" this or that girl, I tried to deflect from the topic. Curiously, whenever I started first (talking about girls so as to avoid him getting me in an uncomfortable conversation), he would do exactly the same and ignore it.

Moreover, he had a way of getting very close to me physically, basically without a reason. I never actually responded to that, cause I thought maybe it's really just friendly gestures.

One time three weeks ago I saw him off again when a young guy bummed a cigarette. After I gave it to him, I told my friend how weird it sounded to be adressed so formally (some of you may now, there's two different ways in German to adress someone, Du und Sie, the latter being the formal one, you know, when talking to teachers, superiors, officials, strangers and so). Just through my talking, he said, "Hmm, what a yummy youngster". And in that moment I thought I got him nailed.

Later that evening I told him I was gay. I didn't have the guts to say it to his face so I did online. His reaction was absolutely positive, he said it was alright and that it didn't change anything.

Nevertheless, when we saw each other again, I was so afraid that he hadn't meant it and that he would turn away from me, or even abhor me.

But that wasn't the case. Everything was as usual. Well, not really. When he had made physical contact before, now he seemed to expand on that, which kinda surprised me.

Now we fool around on the couch, touch each other randomly, and last night he feel asleep on my shoulder and so did I with my head on his.

He also makes funny and weird gestures like touching himself (inappropriately, haha) and talking about jerking off together, and generally a lot about penises. One time he told me he missed me at work when I wasn't there for a while, and asked if that sounded gay. When I responded with a smile, he told me I looked sweet when I smiled that way, and asked if that sounded gay.

In a way, he's pretty foolish and sometimes even piggish, but then there's this whole other side to him that I see. I guess what I want to say, mainly to myself, I guess, is that however complicated and inscrutable and even crazy this might be, I know he's worth the effort.

Now I really think I'm taken with him, but I'm not sure how to interpret all of this. Is he "just" a friend? Does he want more? When he isn't gay, maybe he's bi? Should I make a move?

Are there enough signals there to justify an approach without making a fool of myself?

What do you think?

It sounds to me like he's probably gay but in denial. I think you're perfectly justified in making a move but just be cautious about it.

I don't want to lose him.

When I told him I was gay I might have not destroyed anything, cause if he had turned away, I'd have said to myself he hadn't been a friend all along.

But now that he accepts me, I sure could destroy everything by making a move or telling him how I feel. As much as I value our friendship, I do want more, but I'm so scared to risk it. Cause even if I can't have him, I want to have him around me.

The puppy is cute.

Lexington, I want to share my story with you. I was a Junior in high school, and to be honest, didn't know what I wanted.

Turns out, I had a little crush on this guy (who is a year older than me), that was into sports, hanging out with friends; he was a hard working individual in school. I didn't know exactly how to approach him. He always dressed very nicely and cared what he said to people... To make a long story short here, I talked to him online and made hints to him. He took the hints and we ended up in a relationship.

But, my advice to you, is to talk to him... tell him how you feel (or generalize how you feel) about your relationship with him. I think, that provided the information you provided is accurate, you will end up having a positive relationship... if that is what he wants. Situation with me is, the person I love, doesn't want anyone to know about the relationship, even though he loves me dearly.

Let us know how it goes, I hope this helps...

So we're still keeping in mind the fact that he knows I'm gay.

Today he was rubbing my neck, and when I moaned, he asked, Well, you like that, does that make you horny? And I was like, it sure does...

Then he kept putting his arm around my shoulder, getting very close to me, touching me out of the blue...

My friends all tell me this is not usual behavior in a friendship (no kidding) and advise me to respond to that. Or even kiss him next time he comes so close again.

I know I should. I just don't know what the hell is holding me back.

Seeing as he knows I'm gay, maybe he thinks, why should he be into me? Maybe he is the one afraid to say how he feels for fear of rejection.

Sometimes I do wish the world could just be black or white.

Frankly, if he's not gay at this point, then he's just leading you on and deserves to get kissed anyways.

hahahaha i have to say that was really funny pianoguy and true hahaha

well i don't think a straight guy would be comfortable leading on his gay friend,

but like pianoguy said, just do it. If he's gay he'll take it, if he's not, it's a good way to humble him

Exactly! If he isn't gay at this point... but why would he be leading me on, especially if he doesn't mean to go all the way? Does he have a rather distorted idea of friendship?

On occasion he says something about the new intern, that she's hot and that he would like to f... her. When I seriously tell him, well, then go for it, ask her something about the internship or so, - he replies, well, it's really only about show... Then at other times he belittles girls he only seconds ago said he would like to f...

Today he asked me why I didn't try to get this one girl... I was like, do I need to explain to you what gay means?

And he goes, well, so you're not even the slightest bit into women?

Me: Well, that's the definition.

Him: Why aren't you bisexual?

Me: It's not like it's a choice. I've always been like this.

Him: How do you know always?

Me: I think that's just the way.

Then he squeezed my shoulder, and I was like, is that supposed to be some sign of sympathy?

And he answered, I don't know what it's supposed to be. Just hold your head up.

Just so you know, I always attract (or get attracted by) the crazy complicated ones...

iv read you threads and i think he is bi speak to him if not face to face but on line keep smiling dont let him put you down tho you r who u r good luck and remember if it doant work out your guy is out there their is someone for eveyone ....x laurie

To be honest, I almost feel uncomfortable when he comes close to or touches me while other people are around. And I do have the feeling that many of our colleagues and superiors already suspect we are a couple^^

No one's ever said anything yet, but the amount of time we spend with each other (and said manner in which), does probably make that impression... it's almost like we're conjoined at the hip...

I'm a fool for hoping he'll take the first step when he's making all these signals and I just dismiss them. Seems more like I'm the one who should take the next step... Just because he knows I'm gay (and in case he likes me) doesn't mean it's so easy for him to reveal his feelings. Cause what if he thinks I could be like, what? you and me? you must be dreaming, we're just friends!

It's actually easy, I guess, but since we're humans, I guess we make it as complicated as it gets.

For fear of... losing.

he really does sound as if he's asking you for advice. some way or other. he sounds like he's in a confused state. he's probably questioning his sexuality as well as yours... does that make sense?

Yeah, it does make sense, cause it was the first thing that came to mind too. He wanted to know about sexuality, whatever, and for whatever reason. Maybe he is in doubt about himself.

But this really takes the cake. He was here over the weekend again. We sat around, surfing the internet and drinking. After a while he first took off his pants (keeping his underwear on, just for claritiy) and then his shirt, for it was pretty hot. The we started fooling around on the bed, like wrestling a little, and when we were out of breath, we just lay there, he had his arm around me and said, "Well, let's stay like this, it's comfy."

I did for about a few minutes, then I kinda didn't know how to go on and went back to the PC or something.

He kept rubbingme in my private place with his foot, and I warned him he should stop cause I could get horny. Then we wrestled a couple times again, and he was like touching himself and playing with his c ock constantly, and we were having this conversation where he wanted to know how it's like to be gay, and how I knew, why I never had a girl and stuff.

I should have kissed him when we lay there, but I still wasn't sure.

Is it still about not knowing how to interpret his behavior... or is it now about my own fear and cowardice to take the chance?

Me, I'm kind of pragmatic... I'd rather confess to him I like him beyond friendship than actually making a move, do something sexual without words... I don't know. When I laid my arm around his shoulder while saying something comforting, he told me not to come so close. I'm so irritated.

I had to go through something like this crap in high school. My best friend who knew I was gay did kinda the same thing until one day I asked him if he was gay, he said no and I said then you really need to stop. Which is better than what I told another one of my straight friends, he kept showing me his butt and for a laugh I looked as serious as i could and said, "then come over here and bend over b***h", it kind of freaked him out but it was worth it.

"then come over here and bend over b***h", .

hahaha, that's awesome.

but to the guy who posted this, either make a move or tell him to stop.

he wants to find out what being with another guy's like, show him

Frankly, if he's not gay at this point, then he's just leading you on and deserves to get kissed anyways.

 

Hahaha! Awesome!

I'm beginning to think that it's all just fake. He does all those things for whatever reason and maybe doesn't even know that I could interpret them this way.

Everyone keeps telling me I should either respond to it or tell him how I feel. And still I would feel so stupid if he should say that it was all for fun and that I'm completely wrong for thinking he'd meant something by it.

I'd really put myself down for not recognizing that, even though at this point the opposite seems so evident.

i don't know, what confuses me is that he said

"why can't you just be bi?"

that sounds weird, you'd think he'd understand that you can't choose an orientation if he was bi/gay, that's what most straight (strait?) people think, that it's a choice.

but on the otherhand, why would he be so comfortable stripping in his gay friends home and wrestling with his gay friend?! and rubbing your change?! that's just....idk what to say at this point haha, i don't think i would even do that to one of my friends haha, he is the most confusing person on earth!

my bet is either denial or confusion, i'm sure if he was aware he was bi or gay he would have made a huge move on you,

but "why can't you just be bi?" is what i'm focusing on the most, it doesn't sound right

That is weird. And what's kinda weirder is that he didn't ask me why I wasn't straight. If he really thinks all is a choice, then why not choose being straight so that he'd have a "normal" guy friend.

It amost sounded like a strange courtesy, like he accepted my being gay and didn't have a problem with it, but he'd be cooler if I was bi and could talk about girls with him, so as to maybe put the gay part... well, back in the closet.

Maybe he's bi and would like to have someone else like him. Hell, I don't know. I thought telling him I'm gay would be the hardest part and everything after would be easy.

Hmm, I could manipulate him somehow. Start talking about how I met some guy (which is him) that I like and don't know what to do. See his reaction and hear what he has to say, if anything.

That sounds so desperate, right? Geez.

It's me again. Somewhat pathetic to be posting in my own thread that much, but whatever.

I want so badly to tell him. And even more to have him. But I've been losing the faith that he could be gay/bi. I think he's not aware of how those things he's doing could be interpreted in the way I did. We've become such good friends and... I've grown so attached to him that I feel empty when he's not with me.

Or maybe we've never been friends. I like him more than a friend, and these feelings almost betray our relationship.

On the off-chance that he really is gay/bi, should I take the risk and tell him how I feel?

If I lose him, I don't know what. Oh, probably I do: I'll be heartbroken for some time and then somehow leave it behind. But I don't want that. I want him around me, but I can't keep the truth secret.

Lex, if you keep going down this road you're just going to make yourself miserable. If you think that there's a chance that he's gay/bi I think you just need to have a conversation with him.

I am already miserable.

I would really love to be you right now

If I was you, I would start doing those same things to him. You're not sure why he does those things, but there is a good way to get around not knowing. When you're alone on another day, what you should do is what he did to you. He will either think nothing of it, since he was doing the same thing to you, OR he will take it as a sign that you are interested, and make some big move on you.

If, on the off chance, he asks you what you are doing, you should pause long enough to ask him if he wants you to stop; give him about 5 seconds to answer or make a really soft "uuuhhh.." sound and unless he says "yes," keep doing it. If he makes that really soft sound, you should tell him that its okay. If he says stop after that, stop immediately and apologize. (If it gets to that point, be sure to post and we can help you from there

I know it can be scary as hell to confess anything really emotionally involved to someone - even through actions, but seeing as you could tell him that you are gay, you should be able to tell him anything. If he were to say that you were just friends, he wouldn't stop being your friend. He's obviously not homophobic, so I really don't think he would get upset that you have a crush on him.

I am already miserable.

My point exactly...

update please

i really want this to work for you

The update is that I don't think he's either gay or bi, he's much rather out of his * * * * ing mind.

He keeps bringing up endlessly this conversation about how I should try it with a girl, and I'm already tired of it. I told him, well, it's the same thing if I said to you try it with a boy, and he's like, well, I could do that. * * * ?

We go into a store, I'm like, get your things, I can wait outside, and he goes, no, come with. The second we're out again, he says, I bet all the people think we're a couple. I say, I told you I didn't need to go with you, and he's like, no, it's alright, I don't mind the notion.

He's lying there on the couch, scratching his crotch and telling me, I think I got a hard-on. So I'm like making this obvious gesture and saying, well, then do something about it. And he goes, couldn't you do that for me?

I look at him and say, seriously? I don't think so, and he answers, aw, just kidding.

He's either consciously playing me, or he doesn't know what he's doing. Either way, I don't even think anymore that he's gay/bi. I think he's just... weird.