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It can happen if you really get your act together


jasper01

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Just wanted to put in one last moment here. I began with one level of awareness here and as I came to a new level experienced two things. One was that people seem to be on their own journeys at their own pace. And another was that as I came to a new understanding there was less support here. I think this to be natural now.

 

The short story for me is that I lost my partner and used to spend some time on this board. When that happened it seemed she was being immature and unreasonable. Over time I discovered that I was just as nuts as she is. And I began a learning process that I was changed by. Through that I was able to bring her back into my life. This process was not days, weeks, or months - but years.

 

So I want to tell you, it is possible. If you really...i mean really get your act together. But I believe it will not happen by itself. My belief now is that when people split it is because both are equally screwed up and neither knows what to do about it. Though the one who has been left has the power to change it. The one who leaves, less so. That's my belief.

 

Here are some thoughts that I have seen regularly on this forum that, from where I look now, seem to be ways of looking at things that stand in the way of getting that 'great' relationship back. I encourage you to discard these ways of thinking. While at the same time supporting and validating the folks who currently are in this frame of mind. I understand you too and you make sense given what you've been through. I've just seen different.

 

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No matter how you try to bend this situation, hon, it doesn't change the facts. She's gone.

 

I came accross another thread that talked of GIGS breakups. And my case seems to be a perfect example. All the symptoms just fit in right.

 

You broke up for a reason, because it wasn't meant to be.

 

Nc is for you.

 

NC will make my partner miss me.

 

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I'm not going to get into the details about why these thoughts seem to me not so helpful. I encourage you to find the answers for yourself. What I can tell you is that my belief is that any form of punishment, invalidation, or withholding does not lead to real love and healing. It is wounding that lead to the struggle and the separation. Continuing the hurt and inability to understand your partner can not get it back.

 

For a time, I think it's natural to believe that someone else may work things out better or that through withholding you can get a partner to 'want' to come back. This is usually the state of mind the leaver gets in and the leavee ends up with. At first. But my belief is that we choose each other precisely because of the problems we have with each other, as well as the good things. This is how I believe our minds seek to complete an uncomplete 'growing up'. And that taking rather than giving space doesn't solve anything.

 

So for all of you in great suffering here. I want to say I hear how much pain you are in and I have gone through this too. And I don't think it's fair or was supposed to be this way. But I believe this is the result of being mishandled by our parents more than what is happening today with our partners. Though I also believe it is directly related.

 

Some thoughts I have about that are..as natural as it is, let go of the blaming. Realize that as an adult nobody owes you anything. You've got to earn it (that's a hard one I think). And recognize that romance is a stage that gives way to a struggle. I don't think this is the natural order of things, but it's the world we live in. Learning to go beyond the struggle, you can climb out of the world and find the ability to give real love and healing which will in turn bring real love to you. The details are so complicated I can't get into it. But I wanted to put it out there, perhaps for those ambitious as I was to find the answers.

 

So with respect and kindness for those who suggest withholding as a 'strategy' for 'getting you back'...I recommend learning validation, mirroring, how to make your partner feel safe, and how to invite them to share. While at the same time giving up the belief that your own reality is the ultimate truth. It's my belief that the unconscious belief that ones own truth is also true for our partner is the core reason why things don't 'work'. And that only one of the partners has to do the work of getting beyond that. The other will be unavoidably compelled to follow if you really do the work. What may not be so apparent is the ways in which you are lacking. That's normal - those are your blind spots. But who doesn't want a really together partner? It's now my belief that if your partner leaves it means you are missing something important AND they are missing the ability to deal with it. Only one of you has to change to fix that.

 

That my partner left, I came to understand, meant I didn't have it together yet. Didn't matter that she didn't either. For a good long time, I believed that she had control over the situation because she was the one willing to walk away. But now I've seen different. She wanted that great relationship just as much as I did. Walking away was simply her best solution at the time for getting it. When I was finally able to validate her reality, that was what turned it around. And it didn't happen all at once. But I do see looking back that there was no other way for either of us once I changed.

 

Breaking up and moving on is the norm. I encourage you to go beyond the norm, even if it may seem at the moment that the choice isn't yours.

 

I believe it is.

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So if your partner leaves you because they think they can do better, your missing the all great and mighty ability to prove your the best person for your partner so that they have no reason to doubt it?

 

If she wanted that great relationship just as much as you did, she would not have walked away, just as you did not walk away.

 

Of course were all missing something, because no one is perfect. If believing your missing something allows you to move on from your past relationships, thats great. Maybe you have just discovered another great way to help others get past their ex's.

 

misguiding people to believe they can change things they cant change is like telling them "NC will make my partner miss me."

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here here jasper.

 

I have come to the exact same conclusion of myself through therapy and self awareness. Everything we do or don't do in a relationship is the product of our parental upbringing. We recreate and relive our childhood fears/experiences through our adult relationships. We look for partners who mirror our childhood hurt/fear.

 

Most people won't get it and don't want to get it, because it requires a greater level of self awareness than most people are preared to face.

 

Excellent thread and post, one of the best i've read here

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here here jasper.

 

I have come to the exact same conclusion of myself through therapy and self awareness. Everything we do or don't do in a relationship is the product of our parental upbringing. We recreate and relive our childhood fears/experiences through our adult relationships. We look for partners who mirror our childhood hurt/fear.

 

Most people won't get it and don't want to get it, because it requires a greater level of self awareness than most people are preared to face.

 

Excellent thread and post, one of the best i've read here

 

It seems to me that a lot of ENAers are a little too serious over breakups...."go see a counselour"...."see a therapist"....."childhood fears"....

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It seems to me that a lot of ENAers are a little too serious over breakups...."go see a counselour"...."see a therapist"....."childhood fears"....

 

Well you are still young SighSob, sometimes these realizations come later in life when all this becomes more meaningful.

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jasper01,

 

i agree with everything you are saying.. but i am not convinced that understanding oneself and being open to the other (communication) will bring your ex back.. as it appears happened for you.

 

in my case, i think there is a point of no return. my ex has moved on in the 3 months, not willing to look at his pain and fears. how can you address that with someone who is not willing to go there?

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jasper01,

 

i agree with everything you are saying.. but i am not convinced that understanding oneself and being open to the other (communication) will bring your ex back.. as it appears happened for you.

 

in my case, i think there is a point of no return. my ex has moved on in the 3 months, not willing to look at his pain and fears. how can you address that with someone who is not willing to go there?

 

I agree. Also, not every relationship fails because both sides were at fault. There are plenty of relationships which fail because one person is causing the majority of the problems. Often there is one person who wants to work things out and the other person just continues on destroying the relationship...and they have the same pattern of destruction in each and every relationship. So while I think everyone benefits by looking into their own behaviours and actions during a relationship...I don't think that in every case both sides can equally fix themselves to make the union viable...sometimes one person needs to fix themself a whole lot more than the other person in order to make the relationship viable...and it is often the people who are MOST at fault for the relationship ending who are the ones LEAST likely to make honest to goodness changes. The ones who are least at fault will likely look at themselves and change the part that needs changing..but the reality is that this was likely not the main reason for the relationship going south. It is kind of like in school..the good students vs the bad students...the good students getting grades of 80-85 will likely strive even harder to improve and be the best they can be...the students flunking out or barely scraping by will make the bare minimum in effort or none at all.

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If she wanted that great relationship just as much as you did, she would not have walked away, just as you did not walk away.

This is one of the great simplistic myths that permeates this board. This is exactly the kind of thing, I suspect, that the original poster was referring to.

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Great post. I would just like to add my 2 cents in. I think many look at NC as a game. I suppose to some it could be used in that way. I think the purpose of it and the reason many use it is because...

 

1) your partner broke up with you and doesn't want contact. It is one way of respecting their wishes.

 

2) NC does take out a lot of the drama filled emotion that can transpire after a break up.

 

3) After a break up a "dumpee" needs to take care of only themselves. To go NC and stop a pattern of getting rejected over and over, is a smart thing to do to help yourself heal.

 

I think if done correctly and for the RIGHT reasons, NC is healthy. It helps give you the time to look at the areas that you need to work on with yourself. I don't think there is a person on the getting back together board (who is in a NC mode) that wouldn't be glad to start making contact again if the "dumper" made contact and was interested in slowly recovering the relationship.

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Yes..sometimes people run when they know they have actually found what they were looking for..but cant bear the thought of that..they run, because the closeness overwhelms them.

 

A lot of people ran where they should have stayed...they weren't able to cope..especially when their mate is different from what they would have pictured for themselves

 

But if the one who left does not feel the same as you do..feels saver with other options out there..etcetera..You just cant force them back in your life just because you validate their feelings.

 

Jasper..your girl wanted you back in her life...that sparkle has always been hiding below the surface of indifference, hurt or whatever... At some point you sparked that again in her..and she started believing again...but that could only happen when she was ready for that..

 

and yes..than years have to go into this to achieve this...years and a good portion of luck that she had not succeeded with someone else..Who can wait for that? No one can really...

 

And that is why the NC-route is preached, the moving on is preached..the heal thyself is preached..what other option is there. You do the things you are ready for and able to do.

 

For me..i finally know..full well and in my heart that my ex will never forget about me ...never..no matter how much he tried..he will not. i am too remarkable for that, too loving..i have been so 'there' in his existence. and it is not something i am fooling myself about..i just know.

 

Now after all of this time i can finally see this. and i will never forget him either..but at some point you just have to accept that if someone runs from you twice, you have got to let them go at some point.

 

I am at peace with this. and when my time comes..some other cute and loving guy will warm my heart if my ex decides for himself that he cant come back into my life.

 

jasper..you were right in this..no matter if i got dumped..we both were very weak people. so no one was at fault really. its forgiven..myself included.

 

No regrets..just love..

 

So now its time to go outside again and enjoy the beautiful weather

 

Who is joining me?

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brownstone, i dont really understand what you are saying here.. can you explain more?

Yeah, sure.

 

It might seem perfectly logical that someone who wants to be with you wouldn't leave you, but don't be so sure that's true. It's just not always that simple.

 

Sometimes they leave because you're not the person you once were, or because you're not the person they need you to be, or because you're not contributing to the relationship the way you once did, or because you're not helping to move the relationship forward as you both grow. They want the relationship to improve -- and they want you in it -- but they reach a point where they've given up. They leave out of frustration, hopelessness and hurt. They feel as though they want to be with you, but, at the same time, they can't be with you.

 

Before my girlfriend left (for reasons like those, more or less), we had openly talked about living apart. In fact, I had talked about being the one who should leave. I love her with all my heart, but I knew the relationship was broken, and I knew that only a separation could fix it. I didn't just want to be with her -- I wanted to be happy with her, and it's not the same thing.

 

I never had any intentions of abandoning her, and I was going to be sure her financial and domestic interests were looked after, but I knew that time apart would probably be the best way to bring us back together for good. In the end, she's the one who actually did it. But the reasons are complex, and "doesn't wanna be with you" hardly captures the moment; we're not teen-agers jumping to new interests.

 

Bear in mind, though, that what I've described might not apply when a breakup is about infidelity or deceit or abuse, and it might not apply to shorter relationships. If someone left you for someone else, maybe that speaks for itself. But even then, he/she might not have looked for greener grass had your relationship been in good order, and it's never too late to get your house back in order.

 

Oh, by the way, any statement to the effect of "was/wasn't meant to be" is pretty worthless too.

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This is straight out of Imago relationship theory. It's good stuff. I was able to see a lot of patterns of behavior explained in it. Even better, the therapists trained in it (like Al) give concrete ways to do better in a relationship. It's worth learning even if you don't get back together.

 

If anyone is interested:

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jasper01,

 

i agree with everything you are saying.. but i am not convinced that understanding oneself and being open to the other (communication) will bring your ex back.. as it appears happened for you.

 

in my case, i think there is a point of no return. my ex has moved on in the 3 months, not willing to look at his pain and fears. how can you address that with someone who is not willing to go there?

 

 

Hi twomonks- Will share just a tiny bit of what I learned in the 'how to do' department for this particular situation as I went through this. He's with someone else now, but as someone so deftly put it to me once, 'If he picked you, he's not going to pick a good girl'. And begin with fixing you. Time spent focusing on the work he is not doing is putting off doing the work on fixing you. When he sees you are changing all bets are off. 'So you have a new friend. I'd be interested to hear about her if you'd like to share'. Invite, mirror, validate. Become an expert at understanding his world though his eyes and make him feel heard by sharing your understanding back with him. Start small and work up to the important stuff. People love being mirrored. They don't realize your doing it and will begin to think how interesting you seem to be (wink).

 

To everyone else. Love hearing your feedback and your theories! (and learn to show genuine appreciation for his sharing of his reality!)

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jasper01, thanks for this thread. This forum is often woefully lacking in legitimate discussion on the complexities of reconciliation. In fact, I wonder why so many who choose to post in this particular forum even bother - other than to project their own negativity on others. But, I digress... I'm assuming you've been reading Harville Hendrix? I believe he's the one who coined the 'Imago' term. Good stuff for those willing to be introspective.

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jasper01, thanks for this thread. This forum is often woefully lacking in legitimate discussion on the complexities of reconciliation. In fact, I wonder why so many who choose to post in this particular forum even bother - other than to project their own negativity on others. But, I digress... I'm assuming you've been reading Harville Hendrix? I believe he's the one who coined the 'Imago' term. Good stuff for those willing to be introspective.

 

I did read Hendrix rather late in the game. My experience was I didn't quite get what he was saying until I lived it myself. Then it made sense.

 

Aldonza- I think Al Turtle is a special kind of genius. Thanks for posting those.

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jasper01,

 

i agree with everything you are saying.. but i am not convinced that understanding oneself and being open to the other (communication) will bring your ex back.. as it appears happened for you.

 

in my case, i think there is a point of no return. my ex has moved on in the 3 months, not willing to look at his pain and fears. how can you address that with someone who is not willing to go there?

 

Right, how can you improve yourself, communicate, while the other person doesn't have any intention to even talk to you?! In that situation, NC is the best way for me to move on, forget, and tend my life, no matter how much I still want my ex back. I just have to force myself to push him out of my life as well so that I can heal and maintain my dignity. It takes two to tango so one-sided efforts don't go anywhere.

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My ex dumped me because his ex wanted to get back with him. In that case my heart was broken. Didn't want to lose him I tried to be understanding, encouraging him to talk to her or even date with her to find out which woman he loves more. But guess what, I couldn't bear the pain that he told me he IS going to see her (just to see her to find out if expectation matches reality, not sleeping together or whatever) indeed. I sent an emotional email to him wishing him never told me the truth and from then on I've never heard from him. Apparently he's either processing the complicated information alone, seeing her, or forgetting me because he said I'm not emotionally stable to deal with this matter. Later on attempted to show my patience, love, care, and understanding, but never got any response. So I gave up and now I'm on NC because I respect his preferences of not talking to me, possibly forever.

 

For me I think the reconnection needs to be done if you have strong will power not to lose your temper and patience when things don't go the way you want. So to speak, in order to invite, mirror, and validate, you need to know how to separate your heart and your brain.

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I agree that no relationships are the same and breaking up isn't as simple as "if he/she loves you he/she won't leave" or "if they left they're not meant to be yours" etc. Things can be complicated.

 

In my case, the long distance part accounts for about 70% of the reasons for him to choose his ex because she's willing to relocate back to his place while I'm willing but not able to. He couldn't leave his daughter, family, house, and job behind. I know that he loves me deeply although he loves her too. But I can't give up my job although he said he doesn't mind to support the family alone for a short while. I was scared of being dependent on anybody financially, and I was a little bit snobbish. I decided buying a house myself in my city and complained about my worries of living in poverty with him if I can't find an equivalent promising job in his city. Men have strong egoes and when a woman worries about him not being able to provide for the family in a decent way they are hurt. I feel sorry about what I said or did, although it's true that I can't afford to do many things I want to if I get married to him, relocate back, and not able to find an equivalent job - I don't want to do anything just for a minimum wage because of my pride. I have business ideas but businesses might fail...

 

My point is, now he's gone, not because he fell out love. But I can't do anything to get him back, instead, only wishing him the best if he chooses to be with her. More or less I feel like he chooses her not just out of love but also convenience. But I really don't care much now. I told him I'm willing to move back if he wants to work out this relationship. But apparently he doesn't bother to try because if he chooses to be with me either of us has to do some severe sacrifices in order to be together.

 

A lot of people don't like challenges. If you can achieve similar outcomes with two paths, if one is difficult while another one is easier you will choose the easier one, right? For me I like challenges but for him he just wants to raise his daughter, have his mother, a stable job, a companion, a wife, and a mother of his children. He doesn't have any ambition to advance his career or become more financially sound. Very different from me. That woman, his ex, is the opposite to me, so very similar to him. She's very submissive - she moved away because of the pressure from her mother (As an adult I would never give up on my love due to the pressure from anybody), not having a good job, not having a good income, doesn't have ambitions, likes to depend on people financially (lived with him for several months because she didn't want to find an apartment before she moved away - there are plenty of apts with short-term leases. Now she's moving back but also wants to live with her friend for a while before finding an apartment or possibly living with him again), and they didn't pursue each other once she left (I pursue things if I know they're what I want and nothing can be too challenging for me).

 

So maybe they're the best match, who knows. I just have to abandon my idea of pursuing and trying hard in relationships. They don't work well in this type of business.

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There is actually quite a bit to unpack here. You have your own opinion, and of course that deserves respect, but I have some differing opinions in response.

 

There seems to be an unfortunate conflation of the terms "moving on" with "punishment" here. In your list of unhelpful phrases, you note No matter how you try to bend this situation, hon, it doesn't change the facts. She's gone. I actually think this is probably one of the most helpful statements for a lot of people after just receiving the news that they have been dumped. There is a lot of denial. If only I can talk to her and make her see we are good together, if only she can come to her senses, if only she can get rid of that other guy who is not as good to her as I am, if only ... Healing cannot happen without looking at reality.

 

I make this distinction because I absolutely believe in moving heaven and earth to work with a partner when you are IN a relationship. A relationship is an agreement, implicit or explicit, that the two of you will work on building the connection together. When one person decides to leave the agreement, it can be very detrimental to still operate like you are in a relationship.

 

I am actually of the Imago, and cognitive-behavior therapy, school of pyschological thought where I recognize the key role the past plays in present relationships. Then, the task for us to is know our history, understand the role it plays, and to grow up (as you say) and start to take responsibility for improving our own future. Within a healthy relationship, we must balance the understandable, healthy desires for validation, mirroring, and unconditional support with independence, space, and autonomy. But this is in a relationship.

 

When a person breaks up with me, I feel it's best for ME to immediately start moving on. I define moving on as moving through the stages of grief and finding acceptance that the relationship is over .... and learning as much as I can from it. Interestingly, I don't think moving on precludes reconciliation. In fact, I think lasting reconciliation is possible once growth occurs, the feelings of resentment subsides, and regular contact and attraction is re-established. We never know where things will grow and sometimes with growth we realize that we grow apart during a break up.

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broken34, good stuff! I couldn't have said any better!!!

 

It's all about timing. If the relationship breaks for any reason than it just wasn't our time to be together. It's a tough pill to swallow at first but we have to do what we have to do to improve and keep moving forward. NC has played a major part in my healing!

 

To Jasper...good stuff fella. Congrats and keep up the good work.

 

gee

 

P. S. I'm with you, but it's been raining in Boston allllll week! ugh! Tomorrow looks like it's clearing up fo some beautiful weather.

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