How long should one wait?

i wrote my suicide note when i was 23. i decided to wait until i was 40 - in deference to those who would say "Just hang on. There's always a better way. Dealth is permanent and forever." That was 13 years ago. i recently realized that there's only four years left until i can get out. (Time flies, i guess, even when you're not having fun)

A simple truth is that not everyone finds love. i obviously haven't given up on finding love - as you can see by the fact that i'm still alive after 13 years. i've not met anyone in the first 35 years of my life, i can't see finding true love in the next four.

Isn't there a point when it's okay to concede that it just isn't going to work out? i signed up to this site originally about 7 years ago. The overwhelming advice then was: hang on.

How much longer?

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Note For the sake of discussion you can assume that the extent of my trying to find love is not being dead.

What do you believe will happen after you die?

i mean like, what is life-after-death to you?

What do you believe will happen after you die?

A long time ago, a guy online answered that question in a jesting manner. But his answer i found very profound, and i use it whenever it comes up:

Being dead is like being before you were born.

Although, now that i google it, it's not an original phrase. i suppose it was too profound to come from some random guy playing TFC 8 years ago. But it's still good.

 

Being dead is like being before you were born.

 

Do you believe that it will eventually lead to you being born again?

This is probably really bad advice, but the way I see it Who are we to tell someone to hang on. Everyone always says its selfish when someone gives up, but I also feel it is selfish to ask someone to stay under such torment. We are not in your shoes so we don't know what has led you to this conclusion for 13 years now. if you don't mind explaining, it might help people understand where you're coming from?

All I want to know is have you given finding some form of happiness your all? have you been out to look for love? have you searched for a hobby that might give you hope?

Do you believe that it will eventually lead to you being born again?

i don't believe that, no.

i'm curious where you're going with this.

i don't believe that, no.

 

i'm curious where you're going with this.

Nowhere really, I guess, it's just that some people believe they go to hell if they do suicide and some believe they reincarnate into another life anyway. To those people, I guess, have more of a reason to live.

To those, suicide is not a way to solve problems because they eventually lead to more suffering, but to you, I guess it justifies as to why you'd think suicide can help you alleviate any pains you may have in your lifetime.

I guess I really have no solid advice. Just out of curiosity, why do you think we exist in the first place? Feel free to ignore me (no hard feelings). I guess i'm just feeling.. chatty?

but i do wonder - are you contemplating suicide totally based on failed romantic relationships? or are there other vicissitudes in your life you are trying to get rid of?

All I want to know is have you given finding some form of happiness your all? have you been out to look for love? have you searched for a hobby that might give you hope?

i've thought about it a lot. i reasoned that if i'll never find someone: perhaps i could try to live off of happiness i could give to others. i figured that i could do my work as best as i could, be the most helpful as i could. Or perhaps i could gain some happiness by trying to learn and gain knowledge - devote my life to those unimportant things.

My particular profession, software, is centered around trying to help people do things, making their lives easier, etc. For the longest time i tried to live off their "thanks". It's not love, but at least it was something that kept me limping along.

i've have had various hobbies over the years, each distract my attention for a few months, but it still comes back to being alone. People have suggested doing volunteer work for a charity, or become a big-brother, or something. Those are fine ideas, but they still don't end in being with someone.

i also don't care for the idea of trying to negotiate down to something less than love. Anyone claiming that it's not that important seems disingenuous, at best: look at how many people are married, or simply have someone. It's not like it's a totally unreasonable thing to want out of life.

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i have, only, been "out" looking for love online - dozens of singles sites in the past decade. With every woman swarmed by 100 men before you even get there, there's no much chance of me standing out. And all women seem to want happy, confident, men. Needy, overly sensitive men, who constantly need reassurance, don't seem to stand out too well.

But i do wonder - are you contemplating suicide totally based on failed romantic relationships? or are there other vicissitudes in your life you are trying to get rid of?

To be clear, it is based on the lack of romantic relationships, but yes.

Wow, vicissitudes Googling...

Ahh, okay. No, no other sudden or unexpected changes that i'm trying to get rid of.

 

i've have had various hobbies over the years, each distract my attention for a few months, but it still comes back to being alone. People have suggested doing volunteer work for a charity, or become a big-brother, or something. Those are fine ideas, but they still don't end in being with someone.

 

1. What if you are meant to be with someone at 41 and you are gone before you ever found that out? I guess that doesn't solve your question as to "how much longer?".

2. Along the same line as the advices that were given, what about a baby of your own with a surrogate mother? I know there are single mothers out there who only want to have their own baby and not a partner

3. I, for one, do not care for confident men. Sensitive, romantic, and caring, are qualities that I look for.

4. We die eventually, what REALLY is the point of you finding love, if life will be nullified in the end?

*bed time, peace out*

1. What if you are meant to be with someone at 41 and you are gone before you ever found that out? I guess that doesn't solve your question as to "how much longer?"

i considered that. But the way i see it:

• i didn't have someone when i finished grade school
  
• i didn't have someone when i graduated high-school
  
• i didn't have someone when i graduated university
  
• i didn't have someone when i turned 25
  
• i didn't have someone to kiss New Year's Eve 1999
  
• i didn't have someone when i turned 30
  
• i had to buy a house alone
  
• i didn't have someone when i turned 35
  

All indications point to

• i won't have someone when i turn 40
  

There are so many things i wanted to do, that by the time i'm 40 i won't be able to get them back.

2. Along the same line as the advices that were given, what about a baby of your own with a surrogate mother?

i don't want children. They are annoying, and a bother, and a drain. And adding that nightmare onto my current one isn't a good idea, because then i'd be alone, hating it, and having to deal with a child.

So don't try to pretend that anything less than love is at all a substitute.

3. I, for one, do not care for confident men. Sensitive, romantic, and caring, are qualities that I look for.

To be honest, i just don't believe you. To quote a web-site:

8 Types Of Guys Women Avoid

1. The Needy Guy

He is overly emotional and shares all his feelings with her right away. The Needy Guy also doubts himself and needs constant reassurance about his relationship, work and friendships.

 

Why he is so unappealing Confidence and independence are very sexy traits in a man -- insecurity and dependence are not. Most women look for a strong partner they can lean on. So if you are always leaning on her -- especially in the early stages of a relationship -- she might doubt your ability to do this. And since women tend to come into relationships with all sorts of insecurities, she won't want to deal with yours as well as her own.

4. We die eventually, what REALLY is the point of you finding love, if life will be nullified in the end?

That's a good question; and because i cannot articulate an answer doesn't mean there isn't one. We all know everyone wants a relationship - and you know it to, and you can't pretend you don't. Ask anyone on earth who is married, in love, has a crush, or is smitten: love/relationship/sex is a huge part of the human existence.

But not my existence.

Except right now, at 8:39 PM on a Saturday night, with tears streaming down my face, i don't want to have to go another hour - nevermind another 105,602 hours.

i don't want to die, i just don't want to live.

Except right now, at 8:39 PM on a Saturday night, with tears streaming down my face, i don't want to have to go another hour - nevermind another 105,602 hours.

 

i don't want to die, i just don't want to live.

Do you have a wing man my friend? they help a LOT! I'm also sitting at home at 9:12 pm on a Saturday night. Mostly because I've been addressing envelopes all day and am not much into doing much after pumping out 1,000 fully addressed envelopes.

You can't find someone sitting at home wishing you have love. An attractive woman isn't going to crash through your roof. go out to a bar or something... join a local hiking club. find a group that would attract the type of woman that interests you and have at it. I'm sure someone will be interested.

Are you really shy? Do you get anxiety problems?

Do you have a wing man my friend? they help a LOT! I'm also sitting at home at 9:12 pm on a Saturday night. Mostly because I've been addressing envelopes all day and am not much into doing much after pumping out 1,000 fully addressed envelopes.

 

Reminds me of a book, The Game.

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Hrm, ok, I get your point on children. It's just that I was thinking love for your own kin could even sometimes be a greater driving force for a person to live than having romantic love, like my mother's situation.

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It's ok if you don't believe me, but I do not have to lie. I DO prefer sensitive men over confident ones. Studies don't speak for ALL women out there, only the majority.

take it easy.

Confidence is one of those things that is easy to fake. if you think it will help you find love fake it, and eventually it will grow on you. I know from experience. I'm a very sensitive guy at heart.

I own a web management company. I still occasionally get ridiculously sick before meeting a new big name client. When I first started I was a bit shaky, now I can meet multimillionaires, and be completely confident, even demanding. Trust me they aren't easy to negotiate with. its one of those things just like all the others in life that will grow on you.

I always get a bit sad when I meet people like you who long for love but can't find it. only because I know you CAN find it. the fact that you care this much, means you have a big heart, and a lot to offer someone. there is probably more than a few women out there right now all down because they can't find a man that values love as much as you.

What is it you feel that is keeping you from finding somebody? Do you date at all?

Do you have a wing man my friend?

No.

You can't find someone sitting at home wishing you have love. An attractive woman isn't going to crash through your roof.

i know.

Are you really shy? Do you get anxiety problems?

Yes, plus i don't know what to say.

...who long for love but can't find it. only because I know you CAN find it.

i disagree with that. i know there are plenty of "people like me", and i know that i can't find it. There's nothing external stopping me, which is not the same as nothing is stopping me.

It's ok if you don't believe me, but I do not have to lie. I DO prefer sensitive men over confident ones.

There's a difference between confidence, and being a jerk. There's also a difference between sensitive, and being needy. i believe that you dislike jerks, as well as the needy guys; while liking confident, and sensitive, men.

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i was just searching Plenty of Fish. Of the search results, 6 women have been online in the last month:

- 1 wants married men only

- 1 wants black men

- 1 doesn't want anyone to contact her, she'll contact you first

- 2 don't want a relationship, just e-mail

Leaving one girl, she's pretty, she likes video games (!). Oh, but wait, one tiny thing at the bottom of her page:

I prefer men who don't have huge issues about who they are.

Damn.

What is it you feel that is keeping you from finding somebody? Do you date at all?

No, i do not date at all.

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A long time ago, when the internet was young, i asked in a chatroom of women what i would have to do to find someone.

"Go to a bar. Go to a library. Join a book club. Join a poetry club."

And i broke down sobbing uncontrollably. Because if that is what i have to do before i'll be able to meet anyone, then i am so totally and completely fucked. Why? Because i don't know what to say.

And the most horribly condescending advice i've hear is, "Just say anything. Talk about anything. Talk about the weather. Tell her you like her hair. Talk to her like you talk to guys. She's not a demon, she's a person, just talk to her like a person."

i not much of a conversationalist, even with guys. i don't know what to say. i've reasoned that "Hi, i'm Ian" probably works out as a first thing. But i'm stuck after that.

"Oh, Ian, just say anything."

[ian]: Hi, i'm Ian

[Girl]: Hi

[ian]: Anything

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i realized that in order to have any chance of meeting someone, it has to be situation where i don't to have to carry on a conversation. While in university i hoped that would be at a place where i worked, but where i work there is no free women.

So, to answer your question: shyness is what i feel is keeping me from finding someone.

Okay, have either one of you above been to see a professional? This goes beyond a lack of confidence. I wouldn't recommend being so convinced that you know everything that you give up. Sometimes you HAVE to look through another persons perspective to see things clearly.

Okay, have either one of you above been to see a professional?

i haven't. Looking at Lampoonland's previous posts, he has been to professionals, a few of them; and even gotten drugs. He says it didn't help.

This goes beyond a lack of confidence.

What does it extend into?

I wouldn't recommend being so convinced that you know everything that you give up.

i don't understand what you mean. i know exactly what i don't have - isn't that the problem? If i didn't know about love then i couldn't possibly miss it (?)

If Sometimes you HAVE to look through another persons perspective to see things clearly.

i was reading a post from a guy who said he first tried to kill himself at age 9, he's now in his 50's. Fifties! After ten years he was 19. After twenty years we was 29. After thirty years he was 39. After forty years he was 49.

forty-nine years.

This goes back to my original question, which we seem to have strayed a bit from: how long is it okay to wait?

Or is suicide never the answer, and you have to suffer until you die naturally. And if you don't make any effort to change then you deserve to suffer - and you're still not allowed to commit suicide.

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i know i'm asking a question who's answer would get you banned. i assume that's why nobody dares to answer it.

I agree you must be suffering. There are a lot of people suffering and you see it as a prophecy that you will be the same. That is partially what I mean by saying don't be so convinced you know it all. You want to be in love, but you want them to accept you as is. I think you have something along the lines of major depression. yes, I understand trying to commit suicide at a young age. I did so at 11. I had a very abusive upbringing. Sexually, physically and emotionally. Beyond that I have struggled with depression.

I could have let it go on and on. But I went to see a doctor and tried to see things a different way. Have you read that book 'a mans search for meaning' by viktor frankl? I recommend you read it if you haven't. It isn't a question on how long you have to wait to let herself give up and die. How long have you really, really tried? You are so set in your ways that you will not let yourself move forward. You are brain washing yourself little by little. Whether it is compiling "evidence" that you are right by reading other peoples stories, or just generally day dreaming all day about failure. It is keeping you back. You will not move forward with this type of attitude. I don't care if you are as ugly and boring as it gets. You can change that. Its your choice. It won't be easy. But it will be worth it. I would first go to a therapist/psychiatrist and get a diagnosis.

Before you are willing to do that, nothing will change. I would not be fair for any women to come into a situation like this. It is not about love, or a women liking a situation. It is about you feeling you will only live for anothers love. Everyone wants that. But it is not the meaning of life. It isn't fair to put your happiness on another in that way. So I wouldn't wish for you to find a relationship. You need to get help for yourself, stop making excuses. I believe you are very depressed. This story about the man trying to commit suicide at 9 and now he is 50...still wanting it to end? Well yes, what has changed? So some people don't change after 40 years, your point? He has his own set of problems. And it is possible to change. His circumstances just have not changed. Big whoop? Is this a big finding or surprise? I think not! Go seek out what is wrong, what is really, really wrong. And then try as hard as you can to fix it.

So the question is, you don't want to make effort to change? The reason people do not answer this the way you think they should or might want to, is because it goes against their beliefs. Because they really just don't believe what you think they may. Every person that is among the living has chosen to be a growing person, one that moves forward or does not give up. That is a fundamental fact of life. Kind of like the survival of the fittest. They are not going to tell you to end it or give you an answer. If they were it would only be because they come from the same persuasion as you. I understand the desire, but I made a choice. So I would not advise you differently than I would myself. You have lost hope, people need hope to survive. It is possible to find that, people believe that. They have to to survive. So no one will tell you to end it! Unless they believe you deserve it from being weak, or want to call your bluff, or because they feel the same way.

They won't tell you that because they think it makes "sense."

Are you really in constant suffering? Or are there just times in life where you really feel the pain of being alone and then you suffer? What are your hobbies and interests in life? And why aren't these maintaining your interest? Do you have any friends?

Are you really in constant suffering? Or are there just times in life where you really feel the pain of being alone and then you suffer? What are your hobbies and interests in life? And why aren't these maintaining your interest? Do you have any friends?

i've been mostly sad for a little over a decade. For weeks at a time i throw myself into something at work, and that distracts me. But i'm always alone, and i always feel it. Every few months, there's a few days where i'm just a mess. i cry at home and i cry at work, and i just wish it would all go away.

Some hobbies i have that distracted me for weeks or months at a time include:

- working on my car

- computer games

- WoW

- watching DVD sets

- papercraft

They have varying degrees of success and duration. Eventually i'll remember that i'm not alone; i'll see happy couples at the grocery store, driving around on a Saturday, etc.

i don't particularly have any close friends. There's people at work whom i'll help with home-improvement projects and whatnot now and then. But nobody i feel like i could talk to about such depressing things, and nobody that i just hang out with. Problem is i don't really like hanging around - i don't know what to talk about. The only things in my head would be work-related geek stuff, or my being alone. And after hours people don't want to talk shop, and nobody wants to hear a guy moan about his life (especially when he doesn't have to be alone - it seems to be self-inflicted).

So i go to work and pretend to be happy, and i come home and wait for bedtime.

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This was my original post, that got out of hand and turned into a rambling story. But since i put all that work into it, i don't have the heart to delete it

i've been sad, and wishing to not be alive, for a little over a decade.

 

For the first few years after university i threw myself into my work. For months at at time it would distract me from my life. i'd do it evenings and weekends too. But after a while i realize it's not actually helping - i'm still alone, and it wasn't going to change.

 

Then i tried shutting myself down emotionally; i tried to stop caring that i was alone - so it wouldn't hurt. Unfortunaly, i couldn't just turn off sadness, but had to stop feeling everything.

 

That worked pretty well for a few years. i didn't get sad, or happy. i didn't feel empathy, or sympathy. i didn't care so much about anyone or anything. All this time i knew i hated my life, and wished i was dead - but it was in the abstract; in a detached unemotional way. Every day, when arriving to work, as i was turning off my car, i would comment out loud to myself:

 

i hate my life, i wish i was dead

 

like a mantra to start my day.

 

Most of the time i was okay - cold, empty, dead inside. But every few months my sad feelings would take me for a week or so. i'd have to go into the washroom at work and cry (damn allergies!

 

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After 9/11 i got really nervous about what i had done to myself, because i didn't care about what happened; i just didn't care. i wondered if i had turned myself into a psycopath; i wondered if it was going to make me snap one day and hurt people.

 

Around 2002 i tried watching the old movies that used to make me cry, or listen to the music that made me sad. i figured even though i didn't like being sad, at least it was an emotion - maybe i could undo what i did. It never really worked, i would cry for about 5 minutes, but then my brain would return to it's default unemotional state.

 

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In 2006 i did something i wish i hadn't done. i'm not proud of it, and i wish i hadn't; but i learned something about myself. i reasoned (everything is detached, unemotional, reasoning, remember), that if i can't have a relationship, maybe i can just have sex. i like sex, maybe i have just the sex as a stop-gap towards real happiness. And i paid a girl for sex. It was all fun, but afterwards, when she left, i was quite vulnerable. i had just shared such a personal thing with someone, and i needed someone to talk to and to be with. But she was only there for the hour. In following hours, and days, i completely broke down. i had to pay a girl for sex; i'm so pathetic. i felt so horrible, so cheap, so pathetic. But i did realize that i don't want just sex, i want love, i want a relationship.

 

That brought emotion back into me. Since then i've been generally sad, with few months of being okay.

A lot of depressed people feel they have poor social skills. It isn't so unusual to become cold after feeling depressed for so long. It is a defense mechanism like anything else. So you paid for sex. You were just trying to cope with the reality you feel is your only reality. Just go and try to talk to a professional. At least once. Do that for yourself. Many people in the states don't have the opportunity you have being in Canada.