"Flirting is Healthy and Harmless, Even for Married/Attached People?"

Hey All --

I know this probably belongs in the "Attraction and Flirting" section, but it has more to do, for me, with "Healing" because it has to do with a conversation I had with the ex recently. I have a question for you all, but first, some background:

The other day, I was online and my EX sent me an instant message. I have not blocked him (though I've removed him from my "buddy list") because I really didn't think he'd ever message me; we're rarely online at the same time anymore, anyway, though now I guess I should block him! It was a brief conversation, but at one point I asked him a very innocuous question which he then responded to with a very blatant sexual innuendo -- actually, more than one. I don't want to post the specifics here -- even though I doubt he'll ever find this site, you never know, and I know he'd recognize the conversation if I posted the specifics here. It will suffice to say that the comments he made had to do with my anatomy and had NOTHING to do with what I asked him, which was a very benign question.

I ended the conversation shortly thereafter, and I did NOT respond favorably to his comments or encourage them. I also did not read anything into it; my understanding is that he has someone else. Regardless, I understand that sexually-charged comments, if they mean anything at all, simply mean he is sexually attracted to me; they obviously don't mean he wants to be with me in a romantic sense or that he hopes for reconciliation. I still recognize that he and I being together is highly unlikely, and I have no hopes that the situation will change.

Later, I was talking to my best friend, and I mentioned it to her. I told her that I felt his comments were inappropriate, particularly since he is supposedly back with his ex. My friend disagreed, saying that "flirting" as she called it, is "harmless," and that it's even "healthy" for married/attached people, that it makes them feel more alive, desirable, etc. Ok, aside from the fact that I'm not really sure I agree that married/attached people should be trying to seek that feeling of being "alive," and "desirable" from someone outside of their relationship, I think there's a HUGE difference between flirting (which I see as things like smiling a lot, giggling at jokes, certain gestures like touching your own hair or touching the person's arm when talking to them, etc.) and blatant sexual comments, particularly if the person you're making them to was someone you had a previous romantic relationship with AND you're currently involved with someone else.

My friend seemed to think that my ex's behavior was harmless, and that I was over-reacting to it just because I still have feelings for him. Yes, I do still have feelings; I freely admit that (not to the ex, of course!) I admit that his innuendo probably wouldn't have offended me so much if I didn't still have feelings. But, all feelings aside, a couple of questions:

1) Where do you draw the line between flirting and inappropriate behavior by a married/attached person? AND

2) What do you think of my friend's assertion that flirting is "healthy" for married/attached people. The answer to this question probably depends on the answer to the first question about where the line should be drawn.

I don't have questions about what I should "do" about the conversation with my ex. I ended the convo, and I've decided that if we ever are talking again and he makes comments like the ones he made the other day, I will call him on it and tell him I don't think it's appropriate. I just want to get a sense of whether I'm over-reacting or not. To be fair, my friend's views on things may be a bit skewed, as she had a relationship with a married man for many years before he finally called it off and decided he needed to focus on his marriage. They STILL talk online, though, and apparently he makes sexually-suggestive comments to her all the time, and she reciprocates them. See, to me, this is NOT healthy -- he's married!

Anyway, just wanted your thoughts...

I have one married friend who flirts with me. I NEVER flirt with him even when I am unattached. He knows I am harmless and uninterested in him. He has never crossed the line into sexual innuendoes - he's referred to me as "the cutest" - things like that. I don't tell him to stop but I don't respond enthusiastically. I would be ok with my bf saying things like that to a platonic friend but not entirely comfortable.

I think the line is crossed in different places depending on context, the relationship, etc. I mean I would think we all could agree that blatant references cross the line but maybe not.

I don't flirt with other men - other than being friendly or "cute" when it is 100% obvious that it is joking around and even then - no sexual innuendoes - it's just not me.

Honestly - if I "flirt" at all in that way it is with my women friends - we have a blast joking around about our "relationships" - and yes we're all straight.

My bf doesn't flirt with women other than me. Not his style but he is good at flirting with me!

hi browneyedgirl -

I think your friend is way off base. I've had married/attached people flirt with me, and sometimes it's OK and benign and sometimes it's just gross. It really depends on the situation and the person. If someone says blatant stuff about my body parts, and we're not dating....well again, it depends but if it's a married or attached guy ......eeeww...it bugs me. I do remember one married guy telling me that married guys HAD to flirt in order to feel alive, and to assure themselves that other women still find them attractive. This was a married friend (they're divorced now!) and he used to flirt with me and I always thought it was harmless but it wasn't lewd or inappropriate type stuff. I'm always impressed when a married guy does NOT flirt with me - it tells me he has character and isn't ego driven.

I think it's kind of pathetic that your friend and her MARRIED ex still carry on a suggestive online thing - what's the point? Ick. She should know better. I know she's your friend but she should just grow up!

But in this situation, this is your EX who broke up with you! For him to say suggestive things to you about your anatomy after he's left you for HIS EX is just plain INappropriate! He is toying with you by doing this! I'm glad you did not get that riled up by it. He is being inconsiderate and unfeeling, in my opinion. Definitely call him on it if he does it again!

I don't think you are overreacting. Not at all.

I have a similar philosophy as batya, i think, as far as flirting - i flirt with female friends more than male ones, which is proof of its harmlessness. I like to have fun and i have a very flirty personality, but a harmless one.

There is a healthy level of flirtation IMO and there is an unhealthy level. If it is very much assumed and obvious that it is tongue and cheek and being happy and playful that is one thing. If it crosses a line to vulgarity then obviously it is not harmless even if it won't be acted upon.

I flirt playfully with female and male friends in front of my SO and he does the same. It is enjoying the company of others and being secure with yourself and your relationship. You have to have a governor on your behavior and you have to KNOW your SO enough to know what they can deal with and what they can't.

I have been out before, with or without my SO and some people DO take it way too far. I can't believe the things some people say, even with their partner standing there. When you see a person's partner looking a bit embarrassed or humilated you know for sure they went to far. I have a friend who gets a couple of drinks in him and makes a fool of himself. His wife is so passive and looks humiliated but never says a word. Needless to say everyone feels so sorry for her, but at the same time can't figure out why she puts up with him.

He's a real perv. He is really good friends with my SO and once he tried to put his tongue in my ear. Needless to say my SO got pretty upset and said look you need to back off and stop drinking. IF they had not been best friends for over two decades the friendship would likely have been over at that point. The only reason my SO let it slide later was beacuse he knew he was drinking. Again!

It depends on the individuals, and equally importantly the partners of the individuals, doing the flirting. A simple rule of thumb would be: don't do anything that will make your partner uncomfortable, and certainly don't do anything that you wouldn't do if your partner were there to witness it. It should be decided within the dynamic of the couple where the boundaries lie, and if your partner is uncomfortable with a certain level of flirting, then you shouldn't even want to flirt that much.

It depends on the individuals, and equally importantly the partners of the individuals, doing the flirting. A simple rule of thumb would be: don't do anything that will make your partner uncomfortable, and certainly don't do anything that you wouldn't do if your partner were there to witness it. It should be decided within the dynamic of the couple where the boundaries lie, and if your partner is uncomfortable with a certain level of flirting, then you shouldn't even want to flirt that much.

I agree with this, there are two people involved int he "appropriatness" or acceptability when it comes to flirting. You adn your partner.

It depends on the individuals, and equally importantly the partners of the individuals, doing the flirting. A simple rule of thumb would be: don't do anything that will make your partner uncomfortable, and certainly don't do anything that you wouldn't do if your partner were there to witness it. It should be decided within the dynamic of the couple where the boundaries lie, and if your partner is uncomfortable with a certain level of flirting, then you shouldn't even want to flirt that much.

Pretty good formula to live by.

This is one reason why very conservative people and very liberal people can have a tough go at relationships if they can't compromise.

I have a married friend who seems to have it all - great husband, gorgeous kids, gorgeous house. she met a guy who was the father of one of her son's team mates. in front of her husband, the guy told her how he had renovated the bedroom upstairs (they were at his home) so she told me she replied to the guy "oh so you want to try out the bed then?" - in a joking way. I don't know - I find that kind of tacky and inappropriate and also taking for granted what she has in her marriage, her family, etc.

I have a married friend who seems to have it all - great husband, gorgeous kids, gorgeous house. she met a guy who was the father of one of her son's team mates. in front of her husband, the guy told her how he had renovated the bedroom upstairs (they were at his home) so she told me she replied to the guy "oh so you want to try out the bed then?" - in a joking way. I don't know - I find that kind of tacky and inappropriate and also taking for granted what she has in her marriage, her family, etc.

I agree,that is tacky and disrespectful IMO. However what she says and our thoughts on it are irrelevant if we are not her partner.

It depends on the individuals, and equally importantly the partners of the individuals, doing the flirting. A simple rule of thumb would be: don't do anything that will make your partner uncomfortable, and certainly don't do anything that you wouldn't do if your partner were there to witness it. It should be decided within the dynamic of the couple where the boundaries lie, and if your partner is uncomfortable with a certain level of flirting, then you shouldn't even want to flirt that much.

This makes sense. I can almost guarantee, if my exes girlfriend (if he is indeed still with her) heard/read what he said to me, she'd be perturbed. It was pretty blatant. I can't think of too many women who wouldn't be upset by it.

This makes sense. I can almost guarantee, if my exes girlfriend (if he is indeed still with her) heard/read what he said to me, she'd be perturbed. It was pretty blatant. I can't think of too many women who wouldn't be upset by it.

And the fact that you are a recent ex compounds the inappropriateness of it tenfold.

Thanks, Rapunzel! I've had married/attached people flirt with me and I've been OK with it too, but not blatant sexual innuendo type stuff. Joking around, teasing, etc. in a lighthearted way is very different than making references to peoples' bodies and such.

It's funny, I told another friend this story, and she had EXACTLY the opposite reaction that my other friend had. This friend said, "You know, technically, that could be construed as borderline sexual harassment, considering that you work with him." I thought her comment was a little extreme too, on the other end of the spectrum (I didn't feel harassed, just uncomfortable because I used to date this guy and he has moved on to someone else). Somewhere in the middle -- that it's probably inappropriate, but not really *harassment* -- is most likely true.

I did not let myself think that this convo *meant* anything; if it means anything, it just means he still finds me physically/sexually attractive. Eh. Whatever. It means nothing to me. He doesn't want to be with me, and that's all that matters.

And the fact that you are a recent ex compounds the inappropriateness of it tenfold.

I agree. I can't believe my friend thought it was OK. She basically said that the reason it bothered me was that I still love him, but that if he was just "some guy" I probably wouldn't have been bothered by it. True, I do still care very much for him, but I don't think it's appropriate for ANY married/attached guy to make those kind of comments, particularly to someone he used to date and still sees on a regular basis at work.

I think it was a really creepy thing to do, browneyedgirl. He was way out of line.

I think it was a really creepy thing to do, browneyedgirl. He was way out of line.

I think so too, for lots of reasons. One, he has someone else. Two, I have to work with this guy. And three...I still have feelings for him, and I think he probably knows that, even though it's been MONTHS since we talked about *us*. But yeah, you're right. Creepy. If he does it again, we will be having it out, for sure.

I used to flirt with people when married, or married people when single, thinking it was harmless. I really never intended it to go anywhere. However, I got a wake-up call on this a while back (maybe even here) and now believe there is no harmless flirting. Because if things weren't going well at home and I was flirting, what happens if she responds favorably? Am I then in a dilemma over whether or not to cheat? What if I'm flirting with someone who is married, totally innocently in my mind, and she's having problems at home and suddenly says to herself "Wow, Eyes is so nice to me and such a charming guy, maybe I should have a fling with him" and then I get put into either the slimeball position, or rejecting and hurting someone who already probably feels rejected and hurt. Now, is this going to happen all the time? I doubt it. I don't even think it will happen most of the time...but in my mind, it only has to happen once to be wrong, so I just avoid it altogether. And there have been times I've flirted with someone who is married/attached and I didn't know their status, and as soon as I found out, I called an end to it (and explained why).

I think it comes down to this: If you are doing something you couldn't go home and tell your spouse, g/f, bf then you shouldn't be doing it. Or to put it another way: Would you like it if your partner was "flirting"? Emotional affair and physical affairs are still cheating. Finish what you have before you start something else.

lost

I think it comes down to this: If you are doing something you couldn't go home and tell your spouse, g/f, bf then you shouldn't be doing it. Or to put it another way: Would you like it if your partner was "flirting"? Emotional affair and physical affairs are still cheating. Finish what you have before you start something else.

lost

I agree. If he ever does drop these types of comments into a conversation again, I'll probably confront him with, "So, (ex), would your girlfriend approve of this conversation?" I seriously think that some people conveniently "forget" that they're in a relationship in some situations and just need a little reminder.