Men and their obsession with women's appearance...

Im SORRY in advance if im sounding extra nasty or negative today. Its the mood..

Of late, Ive been feeling really disappointed in the male gender. Somehow, it feels like all they want is a Hot girl or a girl that looks awesome. One of my friends was complaining about how her bf keeps telling her that she needs to do her nails, and wax etc and how shes not too careful about it.

Quite a few of my other guy friends are quite shallow. I mean the minute i say "im hanging out with a female friend of mine", the first question is " is she hot?".

What the hell??

Also noticed that an old crush of mine has added all the hottest girls in the office on his facebook list, and the worst part is these girls dont give a damn about him. (or me). The're the self centered indifferent "im so hot; i can get any guy" types.

so do I have to always look fantastic to get someone's attention? What if i dont have the inclination to?

rant i know.

It's true. It's really pathetic. But I've seen charm win over looks in a big way. One of the side effects of a society which places so much importance on looks in women is that they don't express themselves in their personalities as much. In the end, if your personality shines through, and you know you're sexy,you'll be fighting them off more than the beauty queens. I think a lot of men are starved for confident women, more than beautiful women (which exist in abundance in my opinion).

I agree with you. I read this book called "The Pornification of America" and it's so interesting. When you watch MTV there is so much smutty behavior, stripper-like behavior, and that's where it comes from I believe. Men love good-looking women but the way they are openly calling girls hot, being self-centered, it's so disrespectful. There's My Space, Facebook. It's like men don't respect women anymore and I think women need to respect themselves in order for things to change. But it's a media thing. I worked with a guy and he wanted take my picture. He always flirted with me. But I hate my picture taken because I photograph horribly and he still took it. He joked he was going to put it on Hot or Not. I was offended. There have to be men out there that aren't that way, aren't there?

the thing is, most guys who want those hot girls aren't hot enough themselves to get them anyway...

i think society conditions men from a young age to see *themselves* as better or winners if they've got a hot girl. The media bombards them with images of hot girls, magazines, etc., and they are told 'this is what you need to be happy and for other guys to think you are a winner...'

so it has a competitive component to it, not just sexual attraction.

it is also usually worse in men who are young or who are going thru a mid life crisis when *they* are worried about being considered manly or as a winner or still on their game.

so a lot of it is about self esteem for themselves. notice how they all treat hot women as interchangeable objects... they don't care about the girl herself.

my answer to your question would be to understand this, and recognize that a centered, mature guy who is confident in himself will look for other things in a woman and not expect her to prance around all the time looking like a hollywood starlet. lots of good guys say they PREFER their girlfriends/wives with no makeup, in a teeshirt, and think them hot becuase they love them.

so yeah, some guys may focus a lot on it, but not ALL guys, and not especially GOOD guys who make good boyfriends/husbands.

if hotness is all he wants, let him go try to find it... as you say, the 'hot' women will just laugh at him... it's a double standard with them expecting women to be hot, but they're just old average...

You have my sympathy, I hope you feel better later on... However, I thought I'd maybe throw out some ideas from a guy's perspective:

1. There is this notion that men all want physically attractive women. Yet I don't know ANY women that have never been able to get a man because of their looks. I've known women who were very much not conventionally attractive and they have still had boyfriends and had men chase them. In other words, if we look at the reality of the situation, being 'hot' is certainly NOT a requirement to get a boyfriend. I once knew a girl who looked very much like Gimli the dwarf from Lord of the Rings, and she still had boyfriends and men ask her out.

On the other hand, there are LOTS of men who can't get women because women are so fussy. I myself cannot get a girlfriend and have never been able to. Another male friend of mine who is 30 this month has never dated, and another male friend of mine has not dated (or even kissed girl) in the 8 years I've known him. We are all decent, kind and educated yet you women refuse to ever consider us. Why? Who knows...

2. Women are just as obsessed with looks. You are just less honest about it. Also, with men money and social status can make up for lack of looks so women think they are less shallow...but in reality you are just shallow about different things.

3. Everyone (men and women) want a partner they find attractive on all levels. I've met women who were physically very attractive but who's personalities made me find them very unattractive overall. Similarly I've met women who I get on with but who I don't find physically attractive. Finding the right person for you means being happy with them on all levels. Also, think about it from the other person's point of view: wouldn't you want to be with someone who thinks you're attractive? Or do you want to be with someone who think's you are physically unattractive but likes you enough as a person to overlook that?

4. OK, I'm going to say something now that I've said a hundred times on many threads and people always argue with me, but I'm going to say it again because I believe it:

Women don't make effort with men. Women have the strategy they wear make-up and nice clothes then they expect men to approach them. If women take this approach the only way men can judge whether or not to approach is by your physical appearance because we don't get to see your personality until after we have made a move, and we only make a move if we have a reason, and the only thing we have to go by is your appearance. How do you expect men to know what your personality is like if you don't go up and talk to guys?!? Yet women refuse to do this, and when I write it on a thread I get loads of people telling me I'm wrong.

Women don't make effort with men. Women have the strategy they wear make-up and nice clothes then they expect men to approach them. If women take this approach the only way men can judge whether or not to approach is by your physical appearance because we don't get to see your personality until after we have made a move, and we only make a move if we have a reason, and the only thing we have to go by is your appearance. How do you expect men to know what your personality is like if you don't go up and talk to guys?!? Yet women refuse to do this, and when I write it on a thread I get loads of people telling me I'm wrong.

excellent point. Women need to get off their asses and show the world who they are, without being approached first. I should also take this advice, but I'm timid, and don't take too well to rejection. I guess it gets easier.

There is a likely chance that beautiful women have the best personalities of all. As they're treated well be almost everyone - get an easy ride in life - and don't have all the complexes and jealousy issues of some unattractive women.

I think the same goes for some men too.

Secondly accept the standard that men like physically attractive women.

Dress well, work out be and be healthy. All of it will work to your advantage. My last post applies equally to men and women, if you adopt to the standard you'll likely meet better adjusted people.

I agree with you. I read this book called "The Pornification of America" and it's so interesting. When you watch MTV there is so much smutty behavior, stripper-like behavior, and that's where it comes from I believe. Men love good-looking women but the way they are openly calling girls hot, being self-centered, it's so disrespectful. There's My Space, Facebook. It's like men don't respect women anymore and I think women need to respect themselves in order for things to change. But it's a media thing. I worked with a guy and he wanted take my picture. He always flirted with me. But I hate my picture taken because I photograph horribly and he still took it. He joked he was going to put it on Hot or Not. I was offended. There have to be men out there that aren't that way, aren't there?

That is a two way street women certainly do not respect men that much is for certain.

The way an advancing male is treated as some sort of predatory figure, pre judged - attacked for only wanting to be with a woman. Women who complain about getting hit on are showing a total lack of respect for men.

I will try to stick your questions instead of making it a man hating diatribe.

Firstly men typically rank looks as being more important than women do. Any study or poll I have seen indicates this. There is nothing wrong with that. Looks are important to feeling attraction to someone. For both men and women. But what makes a particular woman attractive to a particular man can vary, although there are women who fall within a category that very many guys find attractive. And yes there are women who think they can get any man and there are women who can just about do that. Thats life.

As for doing yourself up. Well that is entirely up to you and what you want. If you arent inclined to do so thats fine. Just find a man who doesnt care if you do yourself up, but avoid proposing that men in general should change and that looks shouldnt matter.

For your friend whos BF is telling her she should wax etc why not ask her why she is with him? She has that choice. She can go find a man who will love her perfectly as she is.

For your friends asking if other girls are hot. Who cares? Big deal? They like hot women maybe, maybe they are just curious. Really is small pickin's to be going after this one. I dont see how this is shallow. Would you feel less frustrated if everytime they asked you what a particular girls political philosophy was? Didnt think so.

Your buddy who has all the hottest girls in the office on his facebook. Well if he needs to have that up there to make him feel better about himself then that really is his issue.

BeStrongBeHappy has it right.

Still, though, I think a lot of us have moments of "weakness" where this just gets under our skin. On bad days, especially.

The obsession with looks in some people gets to me less than the spineless (yes, that is a judgement! ) behavior of many men and women who let certain people walk all over them, or bend over backwards for even a hint of a piece of ass.

Sorry to be crude. Seems fitting, though.

If no one fell for the bimbos, the bimbos would either have to step up to task or would simply not get so much attention/reward for poor behavior.

Since there is always ALWAYS some sucker willing to go for "Ooo Shiny!" , might as well give up being too upset about it.

Still. It's so common it gets irritating.

There are good ones out there - they take us to task, though, and require that WE present ourselves and mature and let go of these issues with looks etc.

BTW, Corvidae, while I am someone who is more than willing to be assertive in dating and approaching and the whole deal (and DO take equal initiative and show not rely on flirting/bat eyelashes/wait for a date) - there ARE still men out there who will look at a woman approaching and quite quickly decide she is "easy, garbage, desperate" or any other foolish thing.

And women feed it, too. And yes, it gets irritating.

In lots ways, lots of people are still stuck in cave man mentality. Man waits til he is in his 40's and then thinks "hmm, I want kids" and some little 20 hooks up with this guy and they breed.

Pisses me off.

This is exactly why I've stopped watching porn; I think it results it looking at women in a sexual way (only).

I think you have to be attracted to someone to get with them and I think the women who focus just on looking good have issues. Natural beauty is the way forward (and it's in the eye of the beholder anyway, as they say. Well at least to some extent).

excellent point. Women need to get off their asses and show the world who they are, without being approached first. I should also take this advice, but I'm timid, and don't take too well to rejection. I guess it gets easier.

At least in my world your negative generalization about women is entirely wrong and somewhat offensive - it's not true of me or the women I know and am close with. For me it's never been about not being motivated- I've asked men out, I have no problem asking men out (no huge fear of rejection), and I would have continued asking men out - and more often - if it was an effective way to find a relationship as opposed to a date or a fling.

Perhaps if I was attracted to extraordinarily shy and extraordinarily insecure men who truly wanted the woman to do more of the asking out (as opposed to the average guy who often is flattered to be asked out or glad in a way not to have to put in the effort, but that woman is not the woman they choose for a serious girlfriend or wife, especially if the woman is doing more of the asking out in general - asking out for a first date can go either way I suppose - I've just seen it typically go the way of the casual fling or one date wonder).

The vast majority of adult men I have known and know might "enjoy" being asked out in the beginning stages but prefer to do more of the asking out or it kinda knocks the wind out of their sails, sometimes in the sense of "I don't know - she's cool and it's great she's so direct but.... something is missing." And sometimes it's just a turn off. Being a go-getter in your career or studies doesn't mean it works that way when you first meet a man.

And I would add that I find it more comfortable to take off my "career hat" in my relationship - I'm not going to become someone submissive but just because I have an "alpha male" job (lol) doesn't mean I need to lose my femininity in my relationships. And I never have let that happen. (No, I'm not a feminist).

But, I am attracted to men who are at least reasonably secure and reasonably assertive - even if they are shy. I happen to like shy men and have been attracted to shy men - just not the extraordinarily shy/insecure men (same thing with women - those are not the women I choose as close friends). Even the extraordinarily shy men will ask a woman out if they are sincerely interested from my experience but I am sure there are exceptions.

You're assuming that a woman getting off her behind and asking men out will be an effective way to find a long term relationship. Out of the hundreds of men I've met, the well over a hundred I've dated, the thousands I am sure collectively my many women friends and acquaintances have dated, I've never seen a woman who does the asking out in the beginning stages (meaning, after the first date) find a serious relationship much less one that was happy. I have rarely seen a woman who asks out the man for the first date find that and typically then she just beat him to the punch and it was more of a "datette" - for coffee or lunch.

As far as approaching - I have no idea what you're talking about - the women I know have no issue approaching men - I don't either. Most of us work with men, we have male friends from school, work - one of my friends meets male friends through the baseball and basketball team she is on - some ballroom dance, play tennnis, do volunteer work, work on community theater.

My friends get noticed all the time - for their personalities, intelligence, compassion, talents and abilities and looks. We're not these wilting wallflowers you need to admonish "get noticed!" My job requires me to constantly be in social situations and to "be noticed"

As far as your fear of rejection - I always found it easier if I met men through an activity when it was natural to be talking to lots of people as opposed to approaching a stranger on the street.

And - yes men are visual creatures so I've found. I don't look like a model and I've had no trouble finding dates and serious boyfriends. When it comes to looks, some were hot, some not so hot, some cute, some average - I was attracted to all of them. I cared less and less about looks as I got older - even though I became more attractive. It wasn't out of desperation but just was a change that happened over time - nothing I rationalized or justified either.

My bf prefers me in no makeup, wearing glasses, hair messy - because it means I am feeling relaxed and comfortable. And he also loves when I dress up for a night out. Go figure. My long term ex was the same way. But, yes, he probably "notices" my looks more than I "notice" his although I also like when he looks nice for an evening out.

And - yes men are visual creatures so I've found. I don't look like a model and I've had no trouble finding dates and serious boyfriends.

Its not even about the physical attributes as much as it is about how a woman uses them. There are many women out there that I love to look at simply beause they are physically beautiful. But the ones that burn in my mind are the ones that have that certain something about the way they carry themselves.

Will Rosanne Barr ever be attarctive to me? No. But a girl who is less attractive strictly from a physical attributes point of view can trump a more "attractive" girl in the way that she carries herself.

I think confidence often comes from men. When you receive compliments, your confidence goes up. Thats probably why men like confidence...b/c it goes hand in hand, often, with attractiveness. However some women manage to manipulate situations by deriving confidence from something else within themselves. This makes them attractive to men by association.

I think confidence often comes from men. When you receive compliments, your confidence goes up. Thats probably why men like confidence...b/c it goes hand in hand, often, with attractiveness. However some women manage to manipulate situations by deriving confidence from something else within themselves. This makes them attractive to men by association.

Nah. True confidence comes from building your own life.

I have a sister and two daughters and a number of female cousins. When they were teenagers they all had posters of rock stars and movie stars.

I don't remember any posters of ugly people.

Yes, as a teenager and somewhat in my early 20s I cared ALOT about looks (John Stamos was my poster of choice, my sister's was Jim Morrison). I made a few not so great choices in men based too much on looks. And passed up a few terrific guys who I could have found attractive but who I wasn't so into being seen with. Shallow, I know but pretty typical for that age.

Nah. True confidence comes from building your own life.

Maybe for some women and indefinetly for a lot of men. But I have to fake confidence. I have built a career for myself that is more than most twenty five year olds but I don't get confidence from it.

I have to agree with the OP but you really can't generalize.

But yes, I really get annoyed by these guys who hit on everything that has two boobs, and all they care about is if the girl is hot. Growing up with 5 brothers, I speak only from experience. Honestly I get sick of men who only think with their privates.

Yeah, but the truth is: Women with little to no confidence, and a pretty face and/or body, get as much attention as confident beautiful women.

And there are seemingly few men who can discriminate the difference, anyhow. And even if they can, it doesn't seem to matter in regards to how many behave.

It's isn't even about gender, since anyone can be excessively superficial silly or dullwitted or lack confidence.

And we don't have to pay much attention to these people when we see them, though we do have to deal with them in every day life anyhow. Sticking your head in the sand and not listening don't make it go away.

It's this awe and such at how much there is out there of it. Obsession with appearance is a real thing and quite popular and supported!

Maybe for some women and indefinetly for a lot of men. But I have to fake confidence. I have built a career for myself that is more than most twenty five year olds but I don't get confidence from it.

So by not building a life you want ie career you are reduced to accepting your confidence from compliments from men?

I have to agree with the OP but you really can't generalize.

 

But yes, I really get annoyed by these guys who hit on everything that has two boobs, and all they care about is if the girl is hot. Growing up with 5 brothers, I speak only from experience. Honestly I get sick of men who only think with their privates.

What are we supposed to do... women are so picky..you have to ask out heaps of them if you want to get just one date. To ask them out you have to talk to them, which means approaching and hitting on lots and lots of girls.

Then we get to settle with just the one special girl.

No - you don't have to "hit on lots of "girls." If you get involved in activities, sports, projects, work, etc that involve women then conversations start naturally and if there seems to be interest, it's natural to say "want to get dinner some time" or a drink or a walk in the park. No "hitting on" in any aggressive way is needed because you're meeting in an environment conducive to socializing.

But you do have to be willing to put in the time and the effort to get involved in interesting activities - you just don't have to do the "hitting on" you described. I did it - and I always had little free time - but I made the time.

If women were so turned off by the idea of men being interested in their appearance then the fashion, cosmetic, and cosmetic surgery worlds would go out of business. But magazines and newspaper articles devoted to those subjects are purchased almost exclusively by women. So which came first - the chicken or the egg? Is the apparent interest by men in women's appearance (much of which is exaggerated by the way) because of an inherent interest or an interest encouraged and fostered by women? Or those industries with a financial interest?

As someone said above - a generalisation like this is as insulting to men as the generalisation that all women care about in men is money and status. Both have an element of truth in them but to blast an entire gender because of it is unwise.

Often women dress up to impress other women (yes, straight women).

@ Captain Planet

Well, I don't talk about approaching girls only, but it's this whole obsession in general, in the media and such you know. IMO there are too many guys who only care about sex and hot girls.

But I know it isn't your fault, guys.. I don't blame you... it's in your genes! xD