"Appropriate" flirting

My g/f and I have had a recurring issue in our relationship that we can't seem to get past. It has to do with differing opinions on what is "appropriate" flirting.

We have been together for 5+ years, living together for 4 years. We are very well matched in every way, except for this issue.

In the first year and a half of living together I found out she was seeing and flirting with two of her ex-b/fs. It almost led to a break-up.

I'm 99% confident that nothing physical was happening, but they were exchanging graphically sexual emails and text messages...I inadvertently saw the subject line on one of the emails on her PC and it was so descriptive that I had to read the email, which led me to find out about the whole issue. I don't believe in invading anyone's privacy, but when the email popped up in front of me while I was standing at the desk in our home office, as I said, it was something I couldn't ignore.

I don't have a problem with her having male friends, even if they are old b/fs. However, I do get uncomfortable when it’s the kind of "friendship" that is exclusive of me. IMO, if they are only friends, I should be able to meet the person at some point. There is no one in my life that I would not introduce to her. To this date I have never met any of her previous b/fs, and only a few of her male friends who already happen to be in relationships.

I also don't have a problem with her being occasionally flirtatious. Where it gets bad for me is when the flirting contains very sexual content. IMO, physical sex is reserved for the primary partner in an exclusive relationship, and so should verbal sexual intimacy.

I use the following example: If a cute girl started chatting me up in a bar I would be flattered and probably flirt back a little. However, if the discussion turned very sexual, I would try to slide in some comments that would make it clear to her that I am in a committed relationship with someone I love. Also, this is a one-time event. If she gave me a phone number and asked me to call, I would not follow through with building a relationship with her.

My g/f, on the other hand, feels that as long as her relationship with another man doesn't turn physical, anything can be said or written, even if it is very sexual. Her opinion is that as long as I don’t know about it, and it’s not physical, it shouldn’t hurt me.

Recently I overheard another man leaving her a phone message on the answering machine that was also a little suggestive, so I checked her cell phone and found some text messages that were sexual in nature. I want to be able to trust her, but I also can’t bury my head in the sand when these things come up.

Am I going too far in thinking that an on-going, sexually laden email or text conversation with another man who is clearly interested in her is “over the line”?

I don't think it matters whether it is technically cheating - it is whether you believe it is inconsistent with being in a committed relationship. I personally think it crosses the line besides being tacky and disrespectful to you. Sounds like she likes the attention and flirting and the cheap thrills while she gets to tell the world that she has a serious boyfriend that she lives with.

I stand by this... there is no such thing as 99% trust.. you either do or you dont...

I would throw a complete na-na if I read graphic emails to other girls from my bf.

I am flirtatious, very flirtatious even... but no... I wouldnt do that, ever. I joke around on msn sometimes and say sexual things, but they are NOT ex;s or men even in the same country, and they are so silly and out-there that they could never be taken for anything more than a joke.

By emailing her ex's that, shes trying to keep control over them, keeping herself imporant to them using sex.

Whether she is afraid of being forgotten, or whether she's keeping them as "back-up"... I dont know

But I wouldnt stand for it.

no gf of mine would be tolerated communicating in any way with their ex. that is why it is called an ex. you EXit the relationship.

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Uh,..yeah, I do not think my fiance...or I, would enjoy knowing that was going on between either of us and someone else. The sexy stuff is just for US...flirting...is flirting...more of a nudge and a wink, not the explicit or suggestive mails or texts. I think you both need to have the same idea about what flirting is.

no gf of mine would be tolerated communicating in any way with their ex. that is why it is called an ex. you EXit the relationship.

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Doesnt that seem a bit militant...?

I would be seriously doubtfull of a man who wasnt in contact with any of his ex's... or at least not on speaking terms with them. It shows a lack of maturity and respect.

Excommunicating....haha...

I guess if my fiance' spoke to his exes...and they were not talking about sex, or their old relationship or about how much he or she missed on another...I wouldn't care...if they could just be friends. If they couldn't..then he and I would need to re-evaluate OUR relationship. Same visa-versa. I have no desire to flirt with ANY of my ex boyfriends. I love my guy. I will flirt with him.

Excommunicating....haha...

 

I guess if my fiance' spoke to his exes...and they were not talking about sex, or their old relationship or about how much he or she missed on another...I wouldn't care...if they could just be friends. If they couldn't..then he and I would need to re-evaluate OUR relationship. Same visa-versa. I have no desire to flirt with ANY of my ex boyfriends. I love my guy. I will flirt with him.

Exactly, I dont talk to 2 of my ex's becuase they still have feelings for me and its not fair on my SO... but once they get over it, I have nothing against being friends with them.

My bf thought his ex was over him, but when she found out about me she called and got all weird on him, he told me about it and said it was overly uncomfortable. I dont mind that he speaks to her becuase he tells me what the deal is and I KNOW there is nothing going on, nor will there ever be

She's exhibiting an incompatibility not in behaviour, but in integrity. I say get out, find someone who has the integrity you have, and appreciates yours in return. Don't torture yourself with drama. Best of luck!

Is this behaviour something that is a deal-breaker for you - would it mean the end of the relationship if she refused to stop?

Six months into our relationship my boyfriend (now fiance) did a similar thing. I came accross one graphic email that he wrote to an ex in much the same way you did.. It almost led to our break up as well. My trust in him was shattered and it took well over a year for him to get it back.

It was very hard for me. It actually hurt more than I've been hurt in the past by physical infidelity so I can really empathise with how you are feeling.

My boyfriend also felt very similarily to the way your girlfriend feels about this issue.. But that was before he knew how I felt about it and before our relationship grew to where it is today. You've been with your girlfriend for a long time and I just feel that if she is committed to you then while she may not agree with your stance on this it would bother her greatly that her actions hurt you and she wouldn't continue with this sort of behavior.

I would want to know why she thinks it is okay to keep on acting like this with other men when she is aware of how it makes you feel.

Doesnt that seem a bit militant...?

I would be seriously doubtfull of a man who wasnt in contact with any of his ex's... or at least not on speaking terms with them. It shows a lack of maturity and respect.

Why is that militant?

I am married and I don't have any contact with any girl from my past. In my experience all being friends with an ex does is cause suspicion and mistrust in future relationships.

I am mature enough to move past the former relationship, and respect my significant other and the ex by not having contact with them anymore, and I expect the same.

Is this behaviour something that is a deal-breaker for you - would it mean the end of the relationship if she refused to stop?

That's what I'm trying to figure out. We went to counselling over this the first time and I made it clear that I either wanted the heavy sexual flirting to stop or the relationship had to end. For 2+ years there was no indication that anything untoward was happening.

She admittedly suffers from low self-esteem and likes the thrill of flirting; says it gives her a "spark" that isn't the same after 5 years with me. I understand all of that, but the overt sexuallity of these relationships goes beyond what I consider reasonable.

She is very attractive, BTW, both physically and in her mannerisms. She has been dealing with men coming on to her for years. When she says she can have a sexually charged relationship with another man, but not sleep with them...well, I mostly believe her. It's really more of a cat-and-mouse game to her.

I don't feel "threatened" by any of the other men. If she wants to leave me for another man that's her choice. What hurts is the disrespect of my feelings, and the sharing of an intimacy that IMO, shouldn't be shared while in a mutually exclusive relationship.

She has told me that she loves me and wants the relationship to work out...but she has also said this is a part of her personality that she doesn't think she can let go of. I don't know if it's something I can live with.

Why is that militant?

 

I am married and I don't have any contact with any girl from my past. In my experience all being friends with an ex does is cause suspicion and mistrust in future relationships.

 

I am mature enough to move past the former relationship, and respect my significant other and the ex by not having contact with them anymore, and I expect the same.

Falling out of touch is one thing, granted, but making a deliberate desicion to not be friends with someone you obviously liked enough to persure a relationship with, is... strange.

Of course these things need to be dealt with in a way that is respectful to your partner, but I would say that the mistrust isnt a product of your friendships, but of your relationship (or issues left over from past relationships).

Where it gets bad for me is when the flirting contains very sexual content. IMO, physical sex is reserved for the primary partner in an exclusive relationship, and so should verbal sexual intimacy.

I'd feel the same way. If she thinks this is unreasonable - I would think that getting out would be a good idea. I know you love her so much.

I use the following example: If a cute girl started chatting me up in a bar I would be flattered and probably flirt back a little. However, if the discussion turned very sexual, I would try to slide in some comments that would make it clear to her that I am in a committed relationship with someone I love. Also, this is a one-time event. If she gave me a phone number and asked me to call, I would not follow through with building a relationship with her.

So I am taking that your sharing that you are in a committed relationship is to be code words for this is inapproriate. I would expect the same from my girlfriend if this is how I felt.

My g/f, on the other hand, feels that as long as her relationship with another man doesn't turn physical, anything can be said or written, even if it is very sexual. Her opinion is that as long as I don’t know about it, and it’s not physical, it shouldn’t hurt me.

Whoa! "as long as I don’t know about it" sounds like a slippery slope to me!!

I say BS...

I relate to this a lot, she sounds a lot like me a few years back.

as blunt and... simple... as this may sound, she is going to have to grow up and get over it.

She puts too much weight in her sexual power, not realising that in the end it can destroy you.

Its kind of sad really, that she feels she needs to use overt sexuality to feel loved. She needs some good friends and to realise that she is cheapening herself and underminding a good, stable relationship.

She has told me that she loves me and wants the relationship to work out...but she has also said this is a part of her personality that she doesn't think she can let go of.

By saying that she is turning the situation around and making it your problem rather than a relationship problem. "This is how I am - deal with it or leave.'

Don't let her get away with that. Tell her that her behaviour is inappropriate for someone in a committed relationship and that it is her decision to continue doing it or not. If she continues she is the one making the decision to end the relationship by her behaviour.

no gf of mine would be tolerated communicating in any way with their ex. that is why it is called an ex. you EXit the relationship.

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Uh, I think it is a good sign in a partner that a prior relationship can end in such a way that continued contact as friends is possible. A few of my old girlfriends are like extended family to me.

 

But I do think it is important that no emotional infidelity occur. Contact should be as very acquainted friends who used to be lovers, rather than as deep phone buddies or more.

 

Having said that, I would still respect my girlfriend's feelings that I not contact my ex's if this is how she felt.

 

Me personally, I would try to guage how my girlfriend really felt about her ex before making any prediction about how I might feel. And I certainly would be making observations about these and other behaviors of hers.

 

I've got a bit of an example of such feelings here. According to one of my ex's, I am the only former boyfriend that her husband does not want her to be talking to. I assume that this is because we have a fairly deep connection as two people who shared many wonderful things over 7 years. One time I called and he started yelling in the background. I told her that I did not think we should stay in touch for the sake of her marriage and family.

 

I think it is bad that he yelled at her. But it is not cause for me to come rescue her. It is cause for me to back-off.

 

Years later she shared with me that she felt that I was being stubborn.

 

So despite his and my position on this, she still wants to talk to me behind his back - I think this is an addtional sign I should not involve myself with her, or her with me.

 

I am sorry she is yelled at. I'm sorry for him she does things like this behind his back.

 

I'm sure glad I am not there.

^^ canteexplain, I agree...

There is a difference, you have to resepct that its a delicate situation, but you should be able to stay friends with your ex's.

By saying that she is turning the situation around and making it your problem rather than a relationship problem. "This is how I am - deal with it or leave.'

 

Don't let her get away with that. Tell her that her behaviour is inappropriate for someone in a committed relationship and that it is her decision to continue doing it or not. If she continues she is the one making the decision to end the relationship by her behaviour.

agreed...

Of course she is allowed to lead men around by their pants, but you are allowed to leave her.

Personality traits you have to live with are things like music taste and sense of humour. Not borderline cheating and manipulation.

By saying that she is turning the situation around and making it your problem rather than a relationship problem. "This is how I am - deal with it or leave.'

 

Don't let her get away with that. Tell her that her behaviour is inappropriate for someone in a committed relationship and that it is her decision to continue doing it or not. If she continues she is the one making the decision to end the relationship by her behaviour.

Yeah, excellent: she is making her problem his. Say this is not about me or you (that way it is not so personal), it is about your behavior and I how I feel about your behavior.

I am married and I don't have any contact with any girl from my past. In my experience all being friends with an ex does is cause suspicion and mistrust in future relationships.

 

I am mature enough to move past the former relationship, and respect my significant other and the ex by not having contact with them anymore, and I expect the same.

Bingo! That's mine opinion too.

She knows you know about her sex msg, she knows you hate it, and she says she doesn't wanna stop it.

Well obviously the only thing you can do than is make a decision:

Are you willing to tolerate that or not.

By saying that she is turning the situation around and making it your problem rather than a relationship problem. "This is how I am - deal with it or leave.'

 

Don't let her get away with that. Tell her that her behaviour is inappropriate for someone in a committed relationship and that it is her decision to continue doing it or not. If she continues she is the one making the decision to end the relationship by her behaviour.

I agree wholeheartedly. This is a ridiculous way to respond to your feelings.

On another note, maybe she has low self-esteem because you aren't married? Maybe she's dropping hints? I don't want to make excuses for her, but it makes me wonder. I think her comments are hogwash and that this is a timebomb. What happens when that sexual charge explodes in your face? I find her reaction to your concerns revolting.

She knows you know about her sex msg, she knows you hate it, and she says she doesn't wanna stop it.

Not respecting your feelings is the biggie, here, I feel.

I agree wholeheartedly. This is a ridiculous way to respond to your feelings.

 

On another note, maybe she has low self-esteem because you aren't married? Maybe she's dropping hints? I don't want to make excuses for her, but it makes me wonder. I think her comments are hogwash and that this is a timebomb. What happens when that sexual charge explodes in your face? I find her reaction to your concerns revolting.

Actually she is the one who has some commitment-phobia. Her mother was married 5 times and she wants no part of being "tied down" by marriage. That being said, she has said that she is in this for the "long haul" with me because we are so compatible.

The self-esteem issues stem from growing up a little overweight, and her mother setting unrealistic expectations. When she bloomed late and men started to become attracted to her, it was like a drug. Now she says she needs the stimulation of flirting but with me she has everything else.

Actually she is the one who has some commitment-phobia. Her mother was married 5 times and she wants no part of being "tied down" by marriage. That being said, she has said that she is in this for the "long haul" with me because we are so compatible.

 

The self-esteem issues stem from growing up a little overweight, and her mother setting unrealistic expectations. When she bloomed late and men started to become attracted to her, it was like a drug. Now she says she needs the stimulation of flirting but with me she has everything else.

May I ask how old you two are? (I missed it if its in there anywhere )

She seems amazingly immature... yes, I understand her feelings and why she has them, but she also has a brain.

To be brutally honest, I think you are being played. Although whether she knows she is doing it or not is a different matter.

she has the best of both worlds, being able to "play the field" while keeping the boyfriend tagging along for stability.