Physical beauty, appearance... superficial?

Could someone please explain to me what makes today's people often hold a quite negative (or at least, defensive) stance towards personal appearance and physical beauty?

 

Wherever I go I hear moral preaching such as "Appearance is not everything", "Beauty is in the eye of the beholder", etc.

They is a lot of truth in such phrases and I agree with them.

 

Yet, the ways and contexts in which such statements are made somehow suggest that beauty is inherently evil or superficial;

that who is very beautiful and physically attractive will rarely be a good person or intelligent;

and most importantly, that it is actually wrong to appreciate people (and oneself) for this facet of human life.

 

Couldn't all this have led to the creation of strong stereotypes? And consequently, to self-fulfilling prophecy?

 

 

 

Secondly: what about fashion. What makes so many people nowadays discriminate this form of art and people who like to be a bit creative with their clothing?

 

Apart from all this: Have you, too, sometimes felt kind of unease when you are physically beautiful (or look attractive according to the way you are dressed), ever since you realized that doing so "might be wrong"?

I feel like I've been forced into a corner because of the media. I do not dress like most people I know and at one time I could walk out of my frount door with a pair of half cut jeans a pair of tights that were brightly coloured and an army shirt feeling perfectly confortable. I do that now some kid walks down the road I get called tramp or greebo... I guess kids haven't seen punk before *laughs*

I feel toned down, I miss those pants I used to wear with huge patches of paint on them and people constantly bug me about what I wear, since when is it any of their busniss. At least I don't act like everyone else.

 

It's all about personality!!!! What happened to the next generation (well in England) they all turned into a load of drug taking alcholic, prostitutes. I'm sorry but this is always happening where I live and I live in a well off area!!! What the hell is going on with society.

 

Everyone is beautiful in their own way, it's just some people are too shallow to see that persons beauty. Everyone's perseption of beauty is diffirent. No one is the same and everyone is intitled to their own oppinion.

 

You pointed out something that really bugs me

This is an irrelevant topic, think about it, do you think EVERYONE thinks Brad Pitt is good looking? Absolutely not, will everyone think you're attractive? ABSOLUTELY not. My point is, to each his/her own. Don't judge one person's natural beauty and compare to yourself. Everyone is beautiful, and everyone is ugly. That's life.

If you are your own person, then the media's dictation of what is hip and what isn't will not get under your skin. I know high fashion is there, and I am exposed to it, but it doesn't mean that I am going to adhere to it.

 

This is reality. Pick and choose your battles. Do what you can.

I am not sure how well I am responding to your exact questions, so excuse me if I am off the point. But I think the reason why 'beauty is in the eye of the beholder' gets used is because (a) it IS true, as Eriscon said, and (b) many of us feel inadequate in today's beauty-obsessed world, and making these statements helps those of us who might be feeling bad feel better. It also puts that one negative comment one might have received into perspective. It's not generally about slamming the beautiful.

 

It's hardly like the beautiful get such a raw deal really, is it? Compared to the ugly? If we ignore every other factor in a person's life, like their social standing, intelligence, money, personality, moral righteousness - then the purely ugly is likely to be less accepted by society than the purely beautiful.

 

I think that people react badly not so much to beauty, but to arrogance. And sometimes those people who seem to go to an extraordinary effort with their appearance come off as vain. Arrogance and vanity are the negative things, not the end visual result from an asthetic perspective. No one thinks it's wrong to look nice or care about your appearance, but the extremes that some people go to, and the way they conduct themselves in public, is really off-putting.

Oh, that new Lexus is so perfect, it would make life worth living.

Have you seen the new Sony laptops? I just love the shape and the screen is 25% bigger!

 

If that gags you, you aren't immune to resisting advertising and peer pressure. That's why people who've had real relationships with real people know that cosmetic beauty is a fraction of the substance of love and relationships.

 

Sure some people are easier to look at, but some are even easier to love. For example:

A Negative reaction toward beauty?? this is not a society that diminishs or devalues beauty, if anything it has a preoccupation with beauty and honours it much more than personality etc etc.

 

I've never seen any ad company use a "nice personality" to sell a product they use models/beautiful faces etc because we value that far more.

 

Beauty is very important.

From what I understood, most of you here are saying that these negative attitudes have stemmed from the modern-world abuse of beauty by the media.

Did I get you right?

 

I actually think that setting the standards for a definition of physical beauty has historically been very relative, thus actually confirming phrases like "Beauty is in the eye of the beholder":

I remember that up to the 17th century in nearly all Western countries, it was considered "ugly" if you didn't have some additional pounds of weight... since being "fat" used to be associated with wealth and well-being, since only few could afford so much food. Anything else was a trait of the poor or middle class.

 

If you have a look at today's world, there is a diversity in "beauty standards" accross different societies and countries of the world. Compare Italian teenagers to Japanese one's for example... each society has different values of physical appearance.

So, again: Beauty is in the eye of the beholding society/culture/country/historical setting.

 

From what I understood, you are saying that when a specific media culture sets new standards and customs (that are accepted by a majority of people belonging to that specific crowd), those individuals within the same society who prefer appearing differently might feel "left out".

Right?

 

I actually know this very well: a girl I know went to live in a South Asian village for a few months. She felt very discriminated by the way people looked at her, referring to her as filthy, etc. Eventually, for the sake of not ruining her stay, she had to conform to their standards...

 

Now, just because she adhered to their customs, does she become a superficial "tradition wh."?

 

I can forecast that some of you might not see the similarity between media and social traditions; but accept it, both are forms of standards dictated by society.

 

And what I'm pointing out is that nowadays, at least in most Western societies, a new social standard is being created: one that strongly discriminates people who want to endeavour in any form of aesthetic creativity (whether by adhering to high fashion, subgenre standards or using own individual anti-conformity).

I mean, just look around and hear some of the typical comments...

 

"What a hot chick. I guess she has no brains..."

"All muscles, no brain..."

"He's really very attractive but very probably doesn't have a good personality!"

As if it's a natural law!

"Oh, just look at the way she dresses! Wants to be in the center of all attention I guess. My god, how off-putting! I would never want to even know a person like her..."

The core of all prejudice-mindedness.

 

I think that people react badly not so much to beauty, but to arrogance. And sometimes those people who seem to go to an extraordinary effort with their appearance come off as vain. Arrogance and vanity are the negative things, not the end visual result from an asthetic perspective. No one thinks it's wrong to look nice or care about your appearance, but the extremes that some people go to, and the way they conduct themselves in public, is really off-putting.

 

I think you explained this very well.

 

But does this mean that every person who looks very good or tries to do so is vain, arrogant and superficial? I'm asking all of you personally.

 

Because that's the stereotype that, in my perception, today's societies (and I don't mean only media and advertisements when I say "societies"; see public opinion, newspapers, blogs, forums, TV shows, magazines, etc. where the crowd speaks) are trying to dictate.

The media has become our tribal council or social coda.

 

If you feel hammered for your beauty, I'm afraid I have no empathy at all.

For example I recently was told I should be more sensitive to the problems of short guys, since I'm tall. I accepted the suggestion.

Tall guys get some perks.

 

You visions of loveliness do too.

For myself, I tend to react more strongly in terms of negatively regarding 'beauty' when it is a vision of uniformity.

 

I enjoy beauty. I also enjoy ugliness. I enjoy uniformity. I also enjoy individuality.

 

The balance can be jarringly off-kilter with some people. An example: Celebrity obsession.

Are these people any more beautiful than my grocery cashier? Not really.

Do they gain more admiration and adoration for their beauty in general? Yes.

 

It somewhat sickens me to witness this. Quite literally, there are people walking around without any of their own sense of beauty.

Their own appreciations have been replaced with something that has been fed to them for someone else's gain.

 

Do you know what I mean? To be beautiful is a gain personally in this world. Whatever the accepted measure of beauty may be, the ugly is of lesser value.

 

It is totally natural, I think, for people to spur against others' marking the territory of what is and what is not beautiful.

We want to decide for ourselves - and we want to be included amongst the beautiful.

 

So, if you have classified yourself as a 'beautiful person' who is being 'slammed' for your beauty - perhaps you just need to accept the fact that those aspects you are appreciating as beautiful are not uniformly considered so.

 

Pass some of the appreciation around.

Could someone please explain to me what makes today's people often hold a quite negative (or at least, defensive) stance towards personal appearance and physical beauty?

 

I would like to know the answer to that question myself.

 

Couldn't all this have led to the creation of strong stereotypes? And consequently, to self-fulfilling prophecy?

Yes, it has created a lot of stereotypes, but I don't know about a self-fulfilling prophecy. I have been both sides of the fence. Not everyone finds me attractive but it seems there are a number that happen to think I am attractive. This has led to many people making unfair assumptions about me based on my appearance.

 

- People assumed it was easier for me to find a boyfriend. However, I was only approached by jerks that wanted sex (and made that very clear) and the guys I would've liked to date were shy and too scared to approach me. Today, I would approach them, but I also suffered from severe shyness due to bullying. At 16 I was still single, which leads to the next stereotype that...

 

- It is impossible for beautiful people to be single unless they are gay. Suddenly the whole estate was talking about me being a lesbian and I don't think I need to tell you how homophobic secondary/high school kids can be.

 

- Beautiful people have easier lives, no problems and a lot less to worry about. My family has been hovering around the poverty line all my life, for 15 years I was bullied at least twice a week to the point I was afraid to go outside my own house, I have been pelted with stones for no reason, seen three people (including a friend) get hit by cars right in front of me, seen my dad come in my room with a nosebleed because my mum hit him, seen my grandfather dead, etc. Yes, I realise plenty of people have had worse experiences, but my point is this: having people think you're pretty is not a ticket to a trouble-free life. I never went through any of these events thinking, "Oh well, at least I am pretty; that makes everything perfect!"

 

- They have power. I was a shy person who has always been the victim of bullies; I never had any power. Perhaps a confident pretty person would, but not everyone is going to bow down to a pleasant face.

 

- They are stupid. I think there is no way that anyone can prove their intelligence, but looking at the system they rated theirs on I was smart. When other teens discovered that, they hated me even more.

 

- They are nasty. People have always complimented my family and so on about how kind and polite I am, but I realise they could have assumed that my shyness was due to my being a snob; that I was stuck-up and felt I was better than them and that is why I rarely spoke.

 

- They are promiscuous and easy to get into bed. Couldn't be further from the truth for me. I didn't even get my first kiss until I was nearly 20.

 

- If they mention any of their problems they are just pathetic pity-seekers. Since they are pretty they must be lying about these problems for attention. For these judgemental people it is a tragedy if an ordinary person's family dies, but if it happens to a pretty person they assume they deserved it because (going back to another stereotype) all beautiful people are nasty and mean. Since I am shy I never wanted any attention, let alone a load of people pitying me. For a long time I felt pathetic; I didn't need pity to make me feel any worse.

 

- They have a high self-esteem and are extremely confident. No matter how many people tell you you are beautiful you will not magically become confident. Confidence comes from within and since I never felt attractive and was bullied so much I had a low self-esteem and no confidence whatsoever.

 

- More accepted by others and more popular. I was bullied by lots of popular people and so I was more of a loner. I have never been popular and I am still not even though everyone has supposedly grown up now.

 

- They are egotistical and need to be taken down a notch. I think the self-esteem and confidence point already explains why this is a stupid assumption.

 

- They are shallow. I have been attracted to tall guys, short guys, thin guys, fat guys, hairy guys, hairless guys, guys with bad acne, guys with crooked noses, guys with bat ears... Appearance never really mattered to me.

 

- They're gold-diggers. With my family and I always having lived in debt, I did not care if a man had money or not. I was used to living in poverty, so why should that change if I meet a guy?

 

- Always in a relationship. I didn't have my first relationship until I was almost 20.

 

- If they are shy they are an arrogant snob and if they are outgoing they are a ho. You just can't win, can you? Either way, there has to be something wrong with you!

 

What makes so many people nowadays discriminate this form of art and people who like to be a bit creative with their clothing?

I'd say that with the clothing it is just narrow-minded ignorance and people fearing what they don't understand. Fear can easily turn into unreasonable hatred.

 

Apart from all this: Have you, too, sometimes felt kind of unease when you are physically beautiful (or look attractive according to the way you are dressed), ever since you realized that doing so "might be wrong"?

Yes. Sometimes I have gotten lots of glares that make me feel as though I have to scar my face, gain 100lbs or dress like a tramp (hobo to North Americans) just to make them happy and be accepted in general.

 

Today I just look however I want to look and wear whatever I want to wear and don't give a turd if someone calls me a prostitute or a cow; if they are bothered by how I was born and by my liking certain clothes that is their problem and not mine. They have issues with insecurity and controlling how other people dress, so they should quit bugging innocent people and go see a psychologist.

Physical apperance is the single most important factor for me concerning sexual attraction. That doesn't mean that other things aren't also important, but looks are the foundation on which all else is built. If the way someone looks is not erotic for me, then a sexual relationship, by definition, is not going to work. Of course beauty is an entirely subjective term and I happen to have minority tastes, but just because most other people choose differently from myself, doesn't alter the fact that I am making my primary choices according to appearance. This is purely a sexual thing and in all other relationships, appearance doesn't matter to me one little bit.

After appearance, then charisma and intelligence are very close runners up and can be deal breakers if they are missing, even just for casual sex.

For a long term relationship, kindness of heart and creativity of thought, (not just intelligence, but being able to think outside the box), are also vital. But still, kindness, creativity and intelligence are not enough if the central factor of a "sexual appearance" is not there.

Quite often people who know me don't realise this because I have, on quite a few occasions, turned down advances from conventionally very beautiful women, (including pro models). But that is only because I have a very individual aesthetic and not because I don't value appearance.

The media has become our tribal council or social coda.

 

I think you misunderstood me somewhere, because what you just said is exactly what I said in my previous post

Does it really change whether it's the media or the royal court etiquettists who set the standards?

 

If you feel hammered for your beauty, I'm afraid I have no empathy at all.

 

Yeah, I understand... since beautiful people are like Gods and thereforeeee able to solve all their problems on their own. Right?

Beautiful people also don't have insecurities, worries, and such things that only "normal people" have.

So why have empathy with them who have perks in everything?

 

You visions of loveliness do too.

 

Would you please mind elaborating on this point?

 

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So, if you have classified yourself as a 'beautiful person' who is being 'slammed' for your beauty - perhaps you just need to accept

 

the fact that those aspects you are appreciating as beautiful are not uniformly considered so.

 

I know that, as you might have guessed from what I have written so far

However, whatever non-uniform form of beauty certain people consciously pursue, these people are uniformly discriminated as being shallow... -_-

 

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[...]

 

How right you are... they are doing everything to prove such stereotypes, even trying to calculate statistics!

 

Sometimes I have gotten lots of glares that make me feel as though I have to scar my face, gain 100lbs or dress like a tramp (hobo to North Americans)

 

just to make them happy and be accepted in general.

 

Crazy, isn't it? Yeah, I've sometimes felt exactly that way.

 

And do you know what happens when beautiful people (according to whatever measure of beauty) defend themselves, and try not to care about what everyone else

 

says about them? Even more hammering... and the stereotypes get stronger and stronger, like in a vicious circle!

 

I'd like to add one more thing: it may be true that beautiful people have some privileges at modeling or entertainment auditions, beauty galas, and such things. Maybe even at work, if the position entails some promotion/advertising.

But the world is more than that!

 

Especially intellectual circles of the world seem to have strong feelings against physical appearance... and nowadays everything in the world is run by intellectuals. It's funny being called "shallow" (behind our backs) just because you smile and greet everyone at a conference on third world development, or at a meeting of literates. (And they seem to look at your body rather than listen to your arguments... now that is shallow)

 

It's funny being called "shallow" even if you are just happy and smile alone and walk accross the streets.

 

I'm just saying it's funny.

I think you misunderstood me somewhere, because what you just said is exactly what I said in my previous post

 

I was agreeing with you.

 

Yeah, I understand... since beautiful people are like Gods and thereforeeee able to solve all their problems on their own. Right?

Beautiful people also don't have insecurities, worries, and such things that only "normal people" have.

So why have empathy with them who have perks in everything?

 

You seem to be putting words in my mouth.

I said I lacked empathy. I was called "the uglier brother" growing up.

It was no picnic.

 

Would you please mind elaborating on this point?

 

I implied tall guys have advantages, just as pretty folks do.

Double misunderstanding then I apologize!

 

I guess that after my experiences, I'm also near the trail of reading certain phrases in a different tone from what was intended...

 

How good it is that we can discuss things openly here

I wonder if you're assuming we don't all know attractive people who are taken lightly because of their appearance. I believe it, have seen it and find it repulsive, yet I've seen far more people completely marginalized by their unattractiveness. They are ignored, and their intelligence isn't dismissed or denigrated. It's often considered irrelevant.

 

A common TV gag is the glam girl in a fat suit, viewed by hidden cameras.

Maybe someday it'll be done in reverse?

I dunno, maybe it will.

I wonder if you're assuming we don't all know attractive people who are taken lightly because of their appearance. I believe it, have seen it and find it repulsive, yet I've seen far more people completely marginalized by their unattractiveness. They are ignored, and their intelligence isn't dismissed or denigrated. It's often considered irrelevant.

 

A common TV gag is the glam girl in a fat suit, viewed by hidden cameras.

Maybe someday it'll be done in reverse?

I dunno, maybe it will.

 

Yes. I agree.

 

Also Unhumble, to answer your question related to my last post, you will notice liberal helpings of words like 'sometimes', 'some' and 'seem to'. This would indicate that I am not saying "every person who looks very good or tries to do so is vain, arrogant and superficial". There are obvious differences between the person who has taken some effort to look nice and just lives their life, versus the person who is quite obviously spending all their time assuming everyone around them thinks they are so good looking, and poses to maximise their exposure.

 

I think that what I find funny is this whole "I'm so good looking, and have such a hard time" stuff, and well as the "I'm so smart and misunderstood" stuff I have seen recently on other threads. I just shake my head at these statements. If you are so naturally blessed the chances are that you are still having it easier than the unpretty people. If you want to test this, ugly it up one day. Go on, do your worst. See how other people perceive you then.

 

I look at the people in life, and on this forum, who suffer from negative self-image and the results of this such as eating disorders, terrible fortunes in dating etc. Perhaps the merely misunderstood good-looking people who do okay in comparison should feel a bit more grateful that they are not suffering to the same degree. Negative self-image can be crippling - and note I am not saying this is about actual looks but a person's own belief about themselves.

 

I agree with Dako when he said he has seen discrimination against pretty people, and I have seen it too. But I have seen far, far worse nastiness and intolerance directed at people who do not fit the pretty stereotype.

 

I think that many of the most beautiful people in the world can still look 'ordinary' or ordinarily attractive if they wanted to. You can dress down to hide good physical features, or at least not accentuate them. You will not bring about the same attitude from others if you then go and talk world politics. If you refuse to look like the people around you who you want to fit in with, then it is understandable to some degree why you get the attention you do. I am not even sure this problem is one of prettiness or beauty, but appropriateness of attire and approach for different circumstances. For those who are concerned they are being judged negatively for their beauty: maybe the people around you are judging you for your judgement, not your actual looks.

 

I know that in my line of work if I dressed to highlight my physical assets I would have a completely different experience from the one I usually live. People would be so busy staring at my XXX [fill in whatever] they would probably not listen to what I am saying, or would discount what I am saying. I get that as a youngish female in a male dominated old-boys-network industry anyway. So instead, I go to some effort to look smart and fashionable, but keep it reasonably demure and unassuming. This is the only way i can maximise attention for my brain. I still have copped BS from occasional industry fogies who sneer at the fact that I have a PhD, but they stop pretty quickly once I start talking.

 

So the moral of my story is that we all have stereotypes and attitudes to deal with. Some have greater challenges to overcome them than others. But it's up to you to pick your poison: maximise your physicality and the chances are that others will think that's where your priorities lie, and thus that you have less to offer in other areas. Or maximise your chances to fit in with whatever social group you want to belong to, and deal with the fact that you are not fully expressing your individuality. You can do both and try to convince people to see you as multi-hued, but that's hard if you can't really back it up.

I wanted to add that just because a larger number of people might find you attractive it does not mean that you will also find yourself attractive or necessarily have a positive self-image. This is just another stereotype.

 

As I've already said; I have been both sides of the fence regarding attractiveness and I felt equally bad either side. However, I do not think anyone can be entirely on one side as everyone has different ideas of what's beautiful and what's not.

 

Also, I don't think that Unhumble's point was to decide whether attractive or unattractive people "have it worse"; I think they just wanted to test people's awareness of stereotypes towards attractiveness and fashion sense and find out why these stereotypes exist in the first place.

 

I think stereotypes exist because some people are so full of hatred today and they need enough excuses to justify their discrimination towards others.

 

And do you know what happens when beautiful people (according to whatever measure of beauty) defend themselves, and try not to care about what everyone else says about them? Even more hammering... and the stereotypes get stronger and stronger, like in a vicious circle!

 

Yes, I feel like I am already in the midst of one.

 

I've also noticed those that reply assume the "beautiful" person is self-centred and believes they are the only one in the world suffering: another stereotype that attractive people are egocentric and do not think of anyone else but themselves.

 

Wherever I go I hear moral preaching such as "Appearance is not everything", "Beauty is in the eye of the beholder", etc.

They is a lot of truth in such phrases and I agree with them.

 

Yet, the ways and contexts in which such statements are made somehow suggest that beauty is inherently evil or superficial;

that who is very beautiful and physically attractive will rarely be a good person or intelligent;

and most importantly, that it is actually wrong to appreciate people (and oneself) for this facet of human life.

 

Perhaps you have a misunderstanding of these statements. I would assume that they are normally made in a certain context. “Appearance is not everything” is likely a reaction to a society that places #1 priority on physical beauty. A society that has produced thousands of anorexic girls and women who are literally disgusted by their own bodies. A society that uses unrealistic depictions of women to sell everything from cars to hamburgers. A society where sexuality and beauty have become inseparable. So what is evil or superficial is not beauty itself, but rather the way that the concept of beauty has been twisted and manipulated.

 

I don’t see how the expression, “beauty is in the eye of the beholder” would suggest that beauty is evil or superficial. That doesn’t make any sense to me.

 

I don’t know anyone who thinks that a beautiful person can’t be good or intelligent. That’s just silly.

 

 

 

Secondly: what about fashion. What makes so many people nowadays discriminate this form of art and people who like to be a bit creative with their clothing?

 

 

Who discriminates against fashion? I don’t really understand what you are saying.

 

Apart from all this: Have you, too, sometimes felt kind of unease when you are physically beautiful (or look attractive according to the way you are dressed), ever since you realized that doing so "might be wrong"?

 

I think I am beautiful. I think that others generally consider me to be beautiful. I also try to dress in a way that looks attractive. The thought has never crossed my mind that any of those things would be wrong.

 

 

However, it really gets under my skin when people talk about beauty as if it’s an exclusive thing. One woman’s beauty cannot negate another’s. Beauty is not about comparison. It’s about individuality and uniqueness. The cookie-cutter concept of beauty creeps me out. Like when you look through a fashion magazine and you can hardly tell the women apart, other than the color of their hair. Ew. To me, that’s not beauty. That’s completely missing the point.

To me sexual attraction has to do with physical appearance in part but also personality/charisma and presense. I have been out with men who I knew, objectively were basically perfect "specimens" - and yes, even my "type" - if I had a type - when it came to features, eye color, body, etc. and yet I felt . . . . . nothing (even when the man was attracted to me). That was based on their vibes, energy, presense, personality.

 

I'm lucky to be reasonably attractive and I have no problem conforming to what is expected of me when it comes to what I wear to work and social events that involve business.

 

I don't need to express my differences by what I wear or by how I wear my hair. I prefer to look clean, neat, well groomed and to wear clothes that are flattering (but not too sexy, etc). I respect people who are into tattoos and piercings, etc but I don't need those kinds of things to differentiate myself - I know I can do that by having an interesting conversation and I don't care to draw the attention of strangers with a few exceptions (one being that I have a very cute and feminine hat that constantly draws attention - it makes me feel good to wear it and I don't mind that kind of attention).

Yes, I feel like I am already in the midst of one.

 

I've also noticed those that reply assume the "beautiful" person is self-centred and believes they are the only one in the world suffering: another stereotype that attractive people are egocentric and do not think of anyone else but themselves.

 

The thing that might not be registering here is that the responses made so far, at least by me, have been reacting more to the vibe of the argument made "I'm beautiful and people dislike me for it". I am not saying that attractive people never suffer discrimination, and I am not saying that all beautiful people are egocentric.

 

However, the "I'm beautiful and people dislike me for it" statement needs some light shed on it. What I am saying is that the negativity coming your way might not be SO much to do with your looks as your attitude. If you are such a target of negativity perhaps it's worth addressing how you project yourself toward others, your means of deciding appropriate clothing for different circumstances, and your view of your own beauty.

 

I mean the funny thing is that because we are not making statements about how beautiful we are, that somehow the implication is that it's just us unpretty people hammering the misunderstood beautiful people. We must be jealous, or resentful huh.

 

The trap I find frustrating is that just like with the smart people thread, one cannot say "actually I am beautiful/smart and I don't have these problems" without running the risk of sounding arrogant. But hazey amber and Batya have avoided this trap, so I will try also. Here goes.

 

Guess what, I too am good looking. I am also smart. I do not experience discrimination for either of these reasons. I dress in a corporate way and people focus on what I am saying. I dress slightly differently and they focus on my boobs. I wear makeup and I am beautiful, or I wear less and look more "girl next door". I generally manage to avoid the stereotypes of good looking people by the choices I make. However, I'm afraid I will always be short.

 

And by the way, I fully recognise what a value laden statement "I am good looking" is. Besides making me deeply uncomfortable because it sounds like I am up myself, it's so subjective. I'm sure many people would say "meh, not my type" about me. Others would have a different view. I am with everyone else here who has made the point that beauty IS in the eye of the beholder. And what's asthetically good looking is also often different to what is sexy. Attitude does count for a lot. But this has been said several times now, and better than I said it.

 

Some self-examination is a good thing. It is not to say there is not some degree of real issue, but maybe this discrimination thing is also something that is under your control to a large degree. It's lonely to be any "type" these days - always easy to find yourself the only one in a crowd, depends on the crowd you choose and how you define yourself and your means of fitting in.

On the lighter side, I see the latest trends as an opportunity to find something you may like. But you dont HAVE to wear it if you dont like it! Everyone's body's are different, the skin tone is different, one thing that may look good on one person may not look so great on another. Thats why people need to find what fits them best! If your nuts and daring, and care to pull off a hot pink something with a polka something, by all means, go fer it! Especially if its yer day off! Of course honestly, I DO like the business suits for women, but you should always wear what your comfy in! Ive worn uniforms enough throughout highschool (JROTC) to the point where it just doesnt bug me anymore & im ok with wearing them.

But I also think that magazines, fashion articles, etc are afraid of people being unique, because then they lose monies! They also are really bad with being so critical about one's appearance that people will believe it, because we all at some point in time DO care to be accepted by the rest of the world. But too bad, because everyone should have a sense of what THEY like for themselves. Love yerself!

I mean the funny thing is that because we are not making statements about how beautiful we are, that somehow the implication is that it's just us unpretty people hammering the misunderstood beautiful people. We must be jealous, or resentful huh.

 

This is an assumption; I never said this about you anywhere in my post and never hinted at it.

 

Guess what, I too am good looking. I am also smart. I do not experience discrimination for either of these reasons. I dress in a corporate way and people focus on what I am saying. I dress slightly differently and they focus on my boobs. I wear makeup and I am beautiful, or I wear less and look more "girl next door". I generally manage to avoid the stereotypes of good looking people by the choices I make.

 

If that is true I find it very strange that all these times I have been discriminated against I never dressed to attract attention to my body or wore make-up to enhance my facial features. People have assumed the following many times when I mention problems I have faced: that I fiddle with my appearance so that I myself invite the discrimination since I look like I am showing off. I don't know if this is exactly what you are trying to say, but at the time of all this discrimination I was even more shy than I am now, I had a low self-esteem (bullying), I always dressed conservatively and dull since I didn't want to attract any attention (I believed attention would've led to more bullying) and for the same reason I never wore any make-up.

 

Some self-examination is a good thing. It is not to say there is not some degree of real issue, but maybe this discrimination thing is also something that is under your control to a large degree. It's lonely to be any "type" these days - always easy to find yourself the only one in a crowd, depends on the crowd you choose and how you define yourself and your means of fitting in.

 

I do see your point about controlling the discrimination by how you present yourself, but if someone has never presented themselves in a way to invite discrimination how can they have any control over it? I feel like this is similar to telling an Asian girl who has always dyed her hair blonde and worn blue contacts that she can control the racist comments she has always received by looking less Asian. No matter what she is wearing they can still see she is Asian and they will still discriminate. I feel it is the same with a person who is seen as attractive by some; you can smear them with mud and put them in a burlap sack, but the same few will still say that person is beautiful. If someone among those few believes in stereotypes, those will still hold true and the discrimination continues regardless.

 

It would be great if everyone could be proud to be themselves without having to worry about others attacking them because of how they were born. It's one thing to judge someone by what they are wearing as that is something that can easily be changed, but to judge them by something they can't change?

Okay Sheyda, I don't know what you look like and maybe you leave the rest of us in the mud as far as your good looks and the visual impression you leave. And if you genuinely believe you are the subject of negativity purely because of your looks, in a way you cannot affect, then I am sorry. That must be difficult.

 

Perhaps there is somewhere that is a better environment for you? Maybe even modelling, fashion could be the place, if you are not there already. That's all I could suggest.

Anyone remember a commercial for some cosmetic product, with Maude Adams saying, "Don't hate me because I'm beautiful?"

 

That keeps popping into my head.