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Retroactive Infidelity.


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Any non-virgin is a retroactively infidelity case. Let's face it, you cheated on your future spouce, thus you have committed retroactive infidelity when you do meet your future spouce, gf, or whatever.

 

What do you think?

 

If you are a virgin, or value sexual integrity - then do you see that virginity is the highest gift that a man or a woman can offer each other, and once that's breached, then the man or woman is 'damaged goods' because the most important gift possible is damaged.

 

Do you view sexual integrity to be the highest value in a relationship? Has anyone been engaged to a virgin, and their would be finacee lost his/her virgin to some other guy, your best friend, or perhaps some player off the net?

 

Let's here your story, how you coped with it, and what is your take on this issue.

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Damn that would be so mess up. I think there was a post here on the infidelity section about a guy posting about his g/f cheating on him, but at the same him, losing her virginity.

 

Yes Luke_Skywalker that's the highest gift you can give to a man/woman. I just gave it to my b/f 5 days ago.

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Each to their own mate, but i disagree with you. How can it be cheating if you havent even met them yet?!!!

 

Its 2007 for crying out loud! Most people my age have a past when it comes to relationships and i would be very surprised to meet a virgin the same age as me.

 

In fact it would put me off to be honest, as most people saving their virginity for the one (whatever) would probably do that for religious reasons, and i am not the slightest bit interested in any kind of religion.

 

But hey ho, each to their own, good luck finding your snow white!

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er..... no

 

how can you be unfaithful to a person you haven't even met or didn't know existed? what if you think the person you are currently with is "the one?" and then it doesn't work out. are you really "cheating?"

 

we are shaped by our experiences, good and bad. the men I have dated in the past have turned me into who I am today. I have learned so much from them. If I didn't date any of those men, I would be a vastly different person, and whoever winds up with me needs to understand that. And I accept that my partner's past has shaped him and turned him into who he is today.

 

why would I accuse someone of "retroactively cheating on me?"

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personally, i couldnt make a long term commitment to a virgin.

 

I think sex is somthing that one should fully explore with people before you "settle down". If you enter a marriage without fully understand your own sexual needs, you are very likely to be miserable in the intimacy aspect of your relationship.

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You might value virginity and strict monogamy (as opposed to the commonly accepted serial monogamy), and fair enough, but it's going too far to call serial monogamy cheating, or "retroactive infidelity".

 

It sounds like you're getting two ideas confused? You talk about retroactive infidelity, and then you talk about one's fiancee (or any exclusive partner) cheating and losing their virginity - of course the latter is cheating, but it's far far different from the former; it would be cheating no matter whether you believe in strict or serial monogamy!

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Hahahaha. HAHAHAHAH. hahahaha... HAHAH ... hah. ha.

 

Ok, now I've got that out of the way. Seriously, "virginity is the highest gift that a man or a woman can offer each other". Perhaps, might I suggest that lifelong commitment is the greatest gift? Combined, perhaps, with the ability to please each other... learned through practice.

 

Virginity and infidelity to me smack of talk of "ownership", a concept I believe fueled by male egos (and plenty of female ones too).

 

People get all hung up and whimsical on sex, which I find odd. I have experience sex, and love, and I can say with 100% clarity that the feelings of being in love are much more magical than the feelings of sex. Sex is pleasurable regardless of love. But the feeling of loving someone, whether you are having sex or not, is the most magical and amazing thing in the world.

 

I do not really think sex and love are as entwined as people think...

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Word Ice!

 

Personally I agree with Eva as well. At least at my age (late 20's/early 30's) any woman who has not sowed her proverbial oats would strike me as a mid-life crisis affair waiting to happen.

 

That being said, I have learned that people who have used sex as a substitute for love are the wrong types to be with too (all three of my long term exes were promiscuous before we got together... and they ended up cheating).

 

There is a delicate balance. I would (and do moving forward) worry more about meeting someone with a healthy attitude toward sex - as relationship enhancer and expression of affection and love - rather than someone to whom sex is some holy grail, or some means for self-validation (especially if Daddy didn't hug them when they were little).

 

That all being said, if you are very religious and this is important to you... than make sure you find someone with the same depth of conviction. Otherwise, you cannot expect good things from expecting someone to hold themselves to standards higher than they have placed upon themselves.

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To clarify my thoughts on "fidelity". I would be faithful to a partner because to not be would:

 

1. Hurt their feelings ("why did he want to sleep with someone else?")

2. Risk sexual transmitted infections

3. Take the focus away from learning to please each other

 

I would not do it because "It's my "Gift" to my spouse"

 

Sex should not be something you "give" to someone. I give nobody access to my body, which in my mind would be tantamount to prostitution. I share access. I experience my body with them. I've had some fantastic and enjoyable sexual experiences with people I did not love. These are special memories to me, moments I enjoyed and shared with someone often without any real romantic connection at all. Maybe we finished up, cracked open a bud, hi-fived each other, and played some playstation afterwards. But hell, we had fun. We enjoyed each others companies and bodies.

 

I can put a condom on my wee fella, but I can't put a condom on my heart. I'm much more cautious who I give my heart too, than who I let see whats in my pants...

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I agree with most of the other fine posts... it seems like that attitude is a way to find fault with a potential partner based on nothing they have done to you directly. You are setting someone up to have rejected you before you even knew them!!! It sounds like a way for you to judge someone and make them feel beneath you if they have had sex before being in a relationship with you.

 

Infidelity requires, first and foremost, FIDELITY!! if a person is not in a relationship, they cannot cheat on that person.

 

the other topic... about the engaged virgin, etc... doesn't really fit with that retroactive question.

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Adding a few more thoughts. A virgin man and a non-virgin woman are a bad combination because how can you feel like a man if you are with someone with more experience than you have? As a guy wouldn't you feel intimidated or cheated on with an immodest partner?

 

I think that women who are non-virgins have a brazen look in their eyes and will know know how to be submissive to their husbands as portrayed in the bible.

 

Comments and thoughts about this.

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er..... no

 

how can you be unfaithful to a person you haven't even met or didn't know existed? what if you think the person you are currently with is "the one?" and then it doesn't work out. are you really "cheating?"

 

The fact is - if a woman squanders her most important gift to someone else, she cant offer that most important to a new prospective spouce, since she already gave it to someone else.

 

we are shaped by our experiences, good and bad. the men I have dated in the past have turned me into who I am today. I have learned so much from them. If I didn't date any of those men, I would be a vastly different person, and whoever winds up with me needs to understand that. And I accept that my partner's past has shaped him and turned him into who he is today.

 

I understand your perspective.

 

why would I accuse someone of "retroactively cheating on me?"

 

You cant since you are non-virgin so you wont value sex as sacred or as a 'most important gift' that you can give someone, then it would not be fair for you to expect that from a potential mate.

 

BTW: Welcome to my polar opposite self (from the one portrayed in November)

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personally, i couldnt make a long term commitment to a virgin.

 

I think sex is somthing that one should fully explore with people before you "settle down". If you enter a marriage without fully understand your own sexual needs, you are very likely to be miserable in the intimacy aspect of your relationship.

 

 

Dont you see the value of sexual integrity and holding out for the right person?

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"I think that women who are non-virgins have a brazen look in their eyes and will know know how to be submissive to their husbands as portrayed in the bible.

 

Comments and thoughts about this."

 

 

 

"Ye have heard that it was said by them of old time, Thou shalt not commit adultery:

 

But I say unto you, That whosoever looketh on a woman to lust after her hath committed adultery with her already in his heart." Matthew 5:27-28

 

 

"And again he stooped down, and wrote on the ground.

 

And they which heard it, being convicted by their own conscience, went out one by one, beginning at the eldest, even unto the last: And Jesus was left alone, and the woman standing in the midst.

 

When Jesus had lifted up himself, and saw none but the woman, he said unto her, Woman, where are those thine accusers? Hath no man condemned thee?

 

She said, No man, Lord. And Jesus said unto her, Neither do I condemn thee; go and sin no more." John 8:8-11

 

"Ye judge after the flesh; I judge no man." John 8:15

 

Judge not, that ye be not judged.

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I agree with ice's post on this. I have seen plenty of people whom gave their most "sacred gift" to their spouse, and then went and shared it with others.

 

I honestly can see why some people do value their virginity for their own beliefs, but I think it is a bit naive to believe that virginity in itself is what defines one's integrity, commitment and whether they will be a good partner or not for you. I think believing it is the highest gift one can give really misses the whole point of commitment and partnership to be honest.

 

I am certainly not a virgin, and I have not been for a long time now. I have also had several partners. Some were in long term relationships that I thought may have gone somewhere more, some were maybe in less wonderful relationships. But I do not regret those experiences or my past.

 

My past does not in anyway lessen what I share with my partner now, nor does him having previous partners lessen what he shares with me. What we have is unique to us, and is also about far more than sex. We respect one another, love one another, are committed to one another and also accept one another for whom we are. THAT is the ultimate gift.

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The fact is - if a woman squanders her most important gift to someone else, she cant offer that most important to a new prospective spouce, since she already gave it to someone else.

 

I wouldn't see virginity as my most important gift - seems a bit odd, to me. I would agree that there other more important gifts: integrity, commitment, loyalty, fidelity, passion, love, etc. Nor would I see a virginal man as preserving his most important gift for me - there are other things I would prefer (same qualities as above).

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Adding a few more thoughts. A virgin man and a non-virgin woman are a bad combination because how can you feel like a man if you are with someone with more experience than you have? As a guy wouldn't you feel intimidated or cheated on with an immodest partner?

 

I think that women who are non-virgins have a brazen look in their eyes and will know know how to be submissive to their husbands as portrayed in the bible.

 

Comments and thoughts about this.

 

 

By your (antiquated) logic, (more) experience = authority = masculinity?

 

Then are you saying that it is a prerequisite for a man to rid himself of his virginity to "feel like a man"? (Also if you turn this on its head, are you saying that for a woman to "feel like a woman," she must be dominated/taught by her partner?)

 

Even if a virgin man meets a virgin woman, the gender hierarchy would not stand bc both would be on a level playing field then, right? Neither having the upper hand, neither would "feel like their gender" since neither would be qualified to undertake the submissive/dominant role?

 

And your assertion that one feels cheated on and intimidated by an "immodest" partner applies to women as well, right? Or are you resorting to the old double standard by implying that women who have engaged in premarital sex are "immodest" and men who have engaged in premarital sex are morally intact?

 

There is a reason why societal perceptions on gender/hierarchy have evolved with time.

 

I respect people's decision to retain their virginity but in turn, I think people's decision to relinquish their virginity has to be respected as well.

Also a dialogue about one's decision to remain a virgin or not, IMHO, has limited relevance to notions (esp. outdated notions) of gender/hierarchy.

 

Just my two cents worth.

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I can see where you're coming from and I'd agree a little bit both ways... but us virgins (especially male) seem to get stigma similar to the only a Hindu at a rodeo.

 

Well, for purposes of this thread, I'm not portraying virginity as a stigma, I'm portraying it as a gift. Thus, if a male is a virgin, it is a gift to the right woman, and it's even more important for the virgin male to find the right woman. Once you lose your virginity, you are no longer 'waiting' to give it to the right person. I believe a virgin guy should go with a virgin girl, because it's a fair exchange of gifts. If you are a virgin guy, and you go with a non-virgin girl, (talking about marriage here), then you are giving something that cant be reciprocated. How is that going to feel psychologically?

 

For the man to be in charge of a relationship, or be the true man, he must have equal or more 'experience' to the woman. That's the point at issue here.

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You might value virginity and strict monogamy (as opposed to the commonly accepted serial monogamy), and fair enough, but it's going too far to call serial monogamy cheating, or "retroactive infidelity".

 

So, the best gift a woman has to offer a guy simply goes to the first bidder? The first guy in a serial monogomy set-up? No wonder it's not likely I'll find a woman good enough for me if you really look at it.

 

It sounds like you're getting two ideas confused? You talk about retroactive infidelity, and then you talk about one's fiancee (or any exclusive partner) cheating and losing their virginity - of course the latter is cheating, but it's far far different from the former; it would be cheating no matter whether you believe in strict or serial monogamy!

 

It's from the perspective of the person that's in a relationship. The cheating I'm referring to is not saving the most important possible gift for the right person that's decided to love you enough to marry you, and it's not fair for someone who is a virgin who has waited. In a sense a non-virgin has cheated on the virgin guy who has waited.

 

It's the waiting part and giving the gift to the wrong person other than the right person which is the 'retroactive cheating' aspect I'm referring to.

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Hahahaha. HAHAHAHAH. hahahaha... HAHAH ... hah. ha.

 

Ok, now I've got that out of the way. Seriously, "virginity is the highest gift that a man or a woman can offer each other". Perhaps, might I suggest that lifelong commitment is the greatest gift? Combined, perhaps, with the ability to please each other... learned through practice.

 

 

Lifelong commitment, in the form of marriage is more important than sex, and that's the type of person who deserves another person's gift of virginity. If virginity is squandered on a person who has not made a lifelong commitment, then what are you reserving to the person who is willing to make such a commitment and is too also a virgin?

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For the man to be in charge of a relationship, or be the true man, he must have equal or more 'experience' to the woman. That's the point at issue here.

 

So are you saying here that you can either be a "true man" (with more experience), or a virgin man who can give his partner the "gift of virginity"? So a virgin man, by this logic, can never be a "true man" then?

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That all being said, if you are very religious and this is important to you... than make sure you find someone with the same depth of conviction. Otherwise, you cannot expect good things from expecting someone to hold themselves to standards higher than they have placed upon themselves.

 

People who have lost their virginity with the wrong person has failed the right person who really deserved it. You infer this is a religious standard?

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To clarify my thoughts on "fidelity". I would be faithful to a partner because to not be would:

 

1. Hurt their feelings ("why did he want to sleep with someone else?")

2. Risk sexual transmitted infections

3. Take the focus away from learning to please each other

 

I would not do it because "It's my "Gift" to my spouse"

 

 

But if you already lost your virginity, you've already failed your future spouce.

You cant get back your virginity and lose it to the right person. And furthermore we are talking about future concept partners not current ones, and hurting the feelings of people we have not meet yet.

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