(long) Wife loves me but is not in love with me

Where do I begin.

We met in college, I was doing individual counseling for some real issues that I was facing in life. I could not communicate very well with the outside world at all. During this process I met her. In counseling she seemed to be all I could discuss and we opted to do couples counseling. We did couples counseling for about six months. The consensus through couseling is that marriage is a choice. Two people coming together realizing each other have issues and deciding that I can live with these issues for the rest of our lives. Was there chemistry, Yes. but as far as overtly teenager-like keeping our hands all over each other we didn't have a relationship like that. She held the power as to if we did something sexual or not. {edited for privacy} So we ended up getting married the summer after my first year of graduate school. Anyone with a graduate degree knows you are physically, emotionally, and definitly mentaly unavailable during the rigors of study and demands of your department. She was on medication for acne and felt insecure, part of the medication was for us to have protected sex, this wasn't a problem because we were not having sex at all. I wanted too, but I really made her do all the work. Skip forward 3 years. I'm out of grad school with a Masters degree. We are now going to pluck up and move accross the United States for my job. Income has now bumped from 15K a year (grad student) to 60K a year (Corporate America). I'm thinking things will be different and we will have the opportunity to discover each other like we were not able to do in the past. Well now throw in a commute that is 3.5 hours a day with a 9 hour workday and it feels like grad school again, except I'm not studying my * * * off all night and on weekends. We become distant and I get wrapped up in softcore pornography. (Bascially consuming my time searching for free pics of nude women and saving them to create a list of favorites) I would tell her that I'm online working on our investment portfolio when she would ask what I was doing {edited for privacy}. When I did show an interest she wasn't interested and we began to distance ourselves from one another. Now for the wrench. I'm a reservist as well and have been mobilized for Iraq. We just bought a house and I leave in three days. We are scheduled to move in in 21 days. Stress is up and I'm in the thick of things while she is holding things together. She was so incredible. She moved in, got promoted at her job, had the floors and cabnits redone, traded in a clunker for a new car, maintained the finances and even saved some money, met new friends, lost weight to the level of four dress sizes. All while I lived in remote locations in Iraq fighting terrorists and extremists daily. I was gone for 16 months total. The Iraq thing was tricky. I was going to get mobilized, and I had a choice. Without including her I chose Iraq over an 18 month stateside deployment. I secretly chose Iraq for two reasons one to get my name off the list of reservists who haven't been overseas and secondly the financial situation going to Iraq would be 5% lower than my exisiting income than the 15% dip if I were to stay stateside. I didn't tell her I essentially volunteered when I left. I basically put my name down for one of the most dangerous missions as well since we don't have kids and this would give someone who does have kids an opportunity to be placed on another list. Not that I could pick that person, but that is how I saw it. Of course not telling her was meaning I was going to have to keep a lie for the rest of our marriage. 7 months into it I couldn't keep it in anymore. I wrote her a letter detailing everything. secret email account, thoughts of infidelity, decision on Iraq, internet pornography and ignoring her. BAM! I layed it all out. From there everything seemed to get better. I read marriage/sex/self-improvement books and really felt like I had differentiated as a person. 3 months later when I came home for leave she had basically forgiven me, I got to see all she had done as far as moving into the new house and I was so proud of her and really disappointed in myself and how I had acted prior to leaving. We concluded that she was going to have issues trusting me, and I aggreed rightfully so. The burden on me is to be as transparent as possible with her. From then on I was able to call her for about 15 minutes for about five out of seven days in Iraq on my Iraqi Cell phone. We got so excited for me to come home, but I wasn't out of the war yet. When I arrived stateside she cried that I was finally safe. I had outprocessing and then I chose to finish a two week military school before going home. I came home and holy cow my wife was smoking hot. She had lost so much weight looked felt and smelt fantastic. We had lived on the phone this idea of what each other was like and now it was time to live out our dreams. {edited for privacy} I quickly became aware of how insecure I was once again. Truth be told I was/am afraid to touch her. I feel uncomfortable during sex and {edited for privacy} ruined my mental state and focus. She had a few medical issues and we did nothing until the issues met her approval. Even then she didn't seem to be satisfied with me, and I wanted to have sex with her so badly all the time. So we held off for a month while we waited {edited for privacy} problems to resolve themselves. Then the PTSD reality of my life kicks in as I start back to work, irritable, angry, distracted, can't sleep, bad dreams, jumpiness. She came home and tried to kiss me passionately and I could not get into it. She wanted to have sex one night and I really didn't want to, but I did anyway after we talked out of guilt I gave in. It was horrible. I started meds with the VA hospital and going through the counseling. I told the doctors that I was worried about not coming through for her. I felt like our marriage was as strong as it has ever been and I was telling everyone that. We started working out at the gym together, made plans to go to family for the holidays. I was getting treatment, and then bam... I find out my interpreter has been killed. I spend a week picking my emotions back together. Then BAM... kick me while I'm down the discussion is along these lines.

I notice my wife seems angy and ask what I have done wrong...

Wife: I need to see a counselor?

ME: Why, your life not like you thought it would be, frustrated with your job?

Wife: Please don't me mad at me, but if I don't tell you you will think it is something else and we will end up arguing about something that is not the real issue.

ME: I won't be mad, just talk to me.

Wife: I love you, but I'm not in love with you!

Then crumbling inside, we have a casual conversation about how she doesn't think she has ever really felt in love and I express that It isn't just her I'm uncomfortable touching her. How she has thought of telling her parents that we may be getting a divorce. Pain like I've never felt before has flooded my life, I cried everywhere I could. We spent the weekend discussing more and I called the number for the military counseling while she was at work. they give 6 sessions free per issue. So I called and set up an appointment. The plan is for me to go to a separate counselor than her and for her to see one as well and then in 10 to 12 weeks we will meet up with a Marriage counselor.

I'm relieved and worried at the same time. Relieved that she is getting counseling, but worried that this will seal it in her head to leave me. I'm still not back to being normal. And I'm concerned that I am emotionaly unavailable for a connection right now. I have so much on my mind, trying to deal with coming back to the real world and now my support my wife says it may be over. She wanted to wait until after the holidays, but she couldn't wait that long.

I'm very sure she is not having an affair, as she would just leave me outright, she wouldn't trail me along with the concept of counseling.

I'm hurting so badly right now and I don't know how to talk to my best friend as she has caused this pain.

Some of my coworkers think she has the 5 year jitters as we have been married for 5 years. How do you get through that? There isn't much about the 5 year jitters or the 7 year itch online, and that is what leads me here. I've read some posts and there are some fairly smart people here. I don't know I just needed to braindump.

Comments questions or suggestions are welcome.

Thanks

mike_chppr

Have you men ever heard of reaching out and touching your wives? Try grabbing her and kissing her or hugging her not just sexually.....she is going because she feels you are not interested in her anymore.....

You both have been through alot in the past couple of years. You've grown apart in a sense become strangers.

I'm glad to hear that you two have decided to see a counselor. When will you start going?

I am so sorry that you have been on a rollercoaster with finishing up school, then buying a house, immediately off to Iraq, and then home to this!

WOW..... yep, sometimes a brain dump is whats needed. Dump and Vent all you'd like. This is the place to do it.

I think counseling is a gret thing to do.... as long as you find the counselor that "FITS" with you.

When you told your wife about your usage of soft porn.... what was her reaction? Did you tell her before the huge weight loss or after???? because.... if you told her before, and she lost weight and got in shape. Then I'd say she had a huge problem with it. I know I felt like I couldn't compete against it.

Is she hell bent on wanting out.... or does she seriously serisously want to work this out?????

Dr. Phil wrote a book a few years back called ... RELATIONSHIP RESCUE. Try that. He's got a no nonsense approach to things. It's a couples book. Something the both of you would read. There's a work book that goes with it.

Try dating again.... and this time DATE. Be open... and quit being so gosh darn reserved and waiting on her to be a HORN DOG. Thats a very difficult thing for most women to pull off. She needs to be touched, hugged, complimented, and loved often. Its not all about the genitals for most women.... we need all the goo and the mushy stuff. THATS what she longs for. Try watching some of those movies you guys call "CHICK FLICKS".... seriously. They are CHICK FLICKS for a reason. Pick up on some of the signals, angles and ideas from there.

AND... this is the time to be very very open, very honest, and lay all your cards on the table darlin... you are going for broke here.

WHAT... does she consider sexy?

WHAT ...does she consider a turn on?

WHAT.... does she want from a relationship?

WHAT ... are the things that make her go oohhhh and ahhhhh?

WHAT.... does she want to do for fun but hasn't done??

WHAT are her hopes and dreams????

Just a few things for you to oodle around in your noggin. ROMANCE HER. And quit being afraid she's gonna bite... touch her... love her... PLAY WITH HER.

I read your whole e-mail start/finish.... doesn't sound like you guys learned to PLAY TOGETHER. Ever!!! Its been work/serious/work/serious/work/serious..... You need to learn to PLAY TOGETHER.

Sending you out big big hugs dude... Love and Light.

BTW....Thank-you. Thanx for serving.

- SEMPER FIDELIS -

Have you men ever heard of reaching out and touching your wives? Try grabbing her and kissing her or hugging her not just sexually.....she is going because she feels you are not interested in her anymore.....

irishtruegreen yes I'd tried to touch her things like scratching her back kissing the back of her neck, grabbing her butt. I'd get responses like that is enough, don't touch me like that, I never got any positive feedback, only things like dont do this or give me some space or stop staring.

I'd totally love to cuddle with her. It is just akward. When we have sex it is like kiss kiss kiss masage the body, and then {it seems} she {is just ready to get it over with}. I'm like man I'd like to have more us time you know... foreplay, but OK and then my mind goes to how long can I last, can I hold it, damn that was faster than I wanted oh oh sensitive... very sensitive, tap tap tap on my shoulder means she is done {edited for privacy}. She goes into the bathroom and pees and then comes back to bed, lights out no pillowtalk, time for sleep.

not that I mind going to sleep after sex, There is just never the opportunity for more with the go to the bathroom routine.

She is the only one I have been with and I don't know if that is normal or not. i.e. to have to go to the bathroom everytime after sex. I read a book on female ejaculation and thought this might be it, but she is certain when she goes after sex it is in fact urine, don't mean to eleaborate so detailed like I said braindump.

I guess in short she feels that I am totally into her and she just can't match me. she feels like I deserve better, she sees her self as being very sexual but just not with me, I'm like the brother now!

So I've totally tried to touch her, but I get all these rejection messages and over time have just stopped.

Now that I'm back from Iraq, she wanted it to feel like teenagers, and I failed her on that front. I have one boot at home and the other is still stuck in very deep blackwater over in Iraq.

I've tried to let her show me the way during sex, but she just ends up going into her own little world {I get shut out}. I'm left in the cold there.

You both have been through alot in the past couple of years. You've grown apart in a sense become strangers.

 

I'm glad to hear that you two have decided to see a counselor. When will you start going?

 

I am so sorry that you have been on a rollercoaster with finishing up school, then buying a house, immediately off to Iraq, and then home to this!

Absolutely, grown apart. That was one of the biggest things we talked about over the phone while in Iraq was how distanced we felt from one another. We could only really imagine what and who each other was and it was very, very tough.

She is not one for phone sex and I pressured her a bit while in Iraq, but she never really got the point of it. That and roleplay with her are totally out the door.

Counselor. I see the counselor on Thursday, she is seeing hers in 15 minutes. My anxiety is high with this. I have this definition of intimacy, that goes along this theme.

Intimacy: the ability to let yourself be known and discoverd by another person. This is mentally, spiritually and sexually. The amount that you are able to let yourself be known is the amount of intimacy you share with one another.

Now for the counseling. I'm tempted to want to increase "intimacy" by asking for how things went, well OK could mean a lot of things, Not OK could mean a lot of things, and Good and Bad could mean a lot of the same kinds of things. I don't know what to say, to ask, I don't want to know, but I don't want to shell myself off from her either.

I'm proud of her for telling me straight up how she felt. I don't have the courage to say things straight up like that. I can totally see how she feels that way, but I also love her immensely. This really really really hurt, It hurt so bad, I thought I was having a heart attack for awhile. Who knows I might have.

In another way I wish I hadn't asked her what was up and life could be normal, maybe she could see a counselor and decide. But then the result might have then been harsher.

Shadows Light, That is what I'm worried about, is finding a counselor that FITS with me, right now I'm so irritable, and angry, not with my wife, but with

life in general. I have an appointment, but we were talking over each other trying to exchange information on the phone and that irritated me, am I sealing

this womans fate of successful counseling from the start or am I just paranoid, since so much is on the line right now.

My wife was pissed and hurt, she seriously concidered leaving me, she thought it was cowardice to tell her in a letter and not over the phone or own up to

in in person. Actually I told her about the porn before, that could have definitly affected her decision to loose weight. I know that it changed her

perspective of our marriage, and she had concerns that if she didn't change then I'd leave her. Then also she didn't want to stay mad at me for long. I

think the time we were discussing it I actually got shot at while on the phone with her. She was on the phone three times once getting shot at, once with

an IED 100m outside our perimeter and again with a morter landing on the other side of a 1ft thick concrete wall. It was all in a days work in Al Anbar.

On the phone while in Iraq I had asked her if she were willing to allow me to subscribe to Penthouse instead of being online searching for crap. She was

like hell no! So we talked about what I found in it. I fantasize about my wife rolplaying like that and me being able to take her pictures. So we decided

that when I got back I would take some nude pics of her and keep in a private place. Well as the PTSD thing started to come out she told me over the phone

that she wanted to take pics tonight. I replied that I wasn't interested and it wasn't because of her it was me. that prompted the night of guilt sex.

which was horrible. She was totally reaching out to me to be sexy and I totally failed her on that front. That moment to me seems pivotal. and I wish I

could have been in a different state of mind.

She is neither hell bent on getting out nor does she want to work this out. She feels like that spark is something that she may have never had and married

me because she knew I had a future and would take care of her. I'm one of the geeky nerdy computer guys, minus the soldier patrolling the streets of Iraq

part. This is why she is going to individual counseling, to figure out what she wants, I'm going to relearn how to touch her and feel comfortable. Which

in the history I've always felt insecure as she is my first everything, I dated 4 other women very briefly, and nothing ever became of it. I've always been

the dry humor social outcast if you know what I mean. She was the first one that saw the real me inside. But now some of the issues that made her

attracted to me are seemingly sending her packing. things like she could teach me how to kiss have sex get her off. I don't know what was going through

her head, but I still feel insecure about it, her, and relationships in general.

The best book I read in Iraq was Passionate Marriage by David Sarnach, This totaly changed my perspective of our marriage, now she feels like she is pissed

all these years she has tried to teach me things that I had to go off to Iraq and learn from a book. And now the practical exercises to build comfort with

one another she doesn't want to participate in. She is distancing herself physically right now, but we still have discussions of how our day went and were

able to laugh together last night about one of her contractors crappy work.

dating, I think this will come out in counseling. we went bowling after I got back and had a blast, she took this second job in the mall on weekends just

prior to me getting back and it is sucking a lot of our time together. She has become a workaholic since I've been gone. However we have started going to

the gym two nights a week which we weren't before and she has lost even more weight since I have been back. Also where we have moved to it is like there is

really nothing to do. Most of our couple friends sit at home and drink and smoke and play board games and that about summs up the lives of 30 somethings on

this coast. The other coast we lived on had tons of things to do, our undergraduate college was near a beach so there was so much everywhere. Now it is

just big city life.

I think I've mentioned this, but she thinks I am the Horn Dog. I haven't initiated, because I get rejected on the small stuff. I'm not going to push it

and feel guilt-trip her into sex. I totally agree with her needing to be touched, huged and complimented trust me I try to complement her on how fantastic

she looks every time I see her. touching is not in my character and that is what I'm going to counseling for. kissing I'm trying to kiss her before I

leave from work and when I arrive back home. I'm really trying to stretch myself even when we are so hurt right now. My wife hates chick flix She reads

tons of romance novels, but we are very even keeled people. We don't get excited at sports events and things like that. Aren't swayed on heavy sales

pitches and emotion, and kind of look funny at those who are. We even sometimes ask why aren't we like that. We joke that my happy face is the same as my

angry face is the same as my excited face is the same as my hurt face, although I think she will redecide what a hurt face looks like. She needs touch.

and I'm not delivering. That is how I see it anyway.

I can totally see I'm going for broke.

What does she concider sexy, I really don't know. She says I'm sexy, but it is more of a tease to arouse me and then leave me. She intends to follow up later, but even on my prompting and reminding it isn't going to happen unless she says it is.

Turn ons I think include me cleaning up after her fixing her breakfast, but I'm not sure if those things turn her on sexually or not.

She wants the full gammet, she says right now I'm the perfect husband in all other respects except, happy face is same as angry face, and she doesn't feel the chemistry or connect.

sucking her earlobes and softbiting the back of her neck, make her ohhh and ahhh her masterbating does the same thing, but all the stuff in the middle is a mystery.

She wants to travel. I totally agree, but her work schedule is so tight, it is nearly impossible to schedule anything. I'm flexible and have lots of annual leave stored up.

She dreams of getting a masters degree, but doesn't know what in. We don't want children, and I've actually gotten snipped before we got married so that she didn't have to be on the pill which affected her hormones and made her not nice to be around.

Your right we need to learn to play together and right now we are in the serious phase and there is a lot of weight on what is going to happen over the next few days.

BTW I've ruled out that she is having an affair. She definitely isn't if that crosses anyones mind.

Thank you for replying, I didn't think of the porn=weightloss connection, and that is very valid.

I just know how I felt with the p*rn, nor do I totally object to it. However, my situation was different. He was using it as foreplay. With and without me. Many of my GF's do NOT allow it. I think insecurity plays in it. Insecurity in not being able to compete with those perfect bodies.

I just threw the weight loss being connected to the Po*n out there for thought. I WAS also going to also add affair... because this is a sign sometimes. HOWEVER. I was accused of it... and that wasn't the case. I had medical conditions that there was a need to keep the weight down to a minimum. The weight loss also leads to more attention... did I get it? oh yeah.. everyone noticed. Did it make me feel good? You betcha. And he didn't like that to much.

Romance novels eh??? well I can appreciate that. Ever read one? one of her favorites? we all have a favorite author or genre... that might clue you in to what her likes and dislikes. I know that when I read a certain scene it gives me a zing. Or I might be attracted to a certain charachter type in the book. Some of todays romances are soft core Po*n. there's no doubt about it. Its more of a MENTAL stimulus than a VISUAL one. Men are more turned on VISUALLY.... women MENTALLY.

Many women who are turned on by Romance novels will be turned on by INTERNET ROMANCE. The written word. Not saying she's having an internet affair either... just helping you undertand the stimulus.

Touch. WOW.... doll thats a biggy. THAT was missing for me. I'm a very touchy feeling person. I need that. The hand holding. The feet rubbing. The abscent carress accross my leg as we watch TV.

I can understand where your wife is pushing you at times when you are trying to hard. Let me ask you.... do all your touches and carresses lead to sex???? meaning... when you do go to hug, cuddle and nuzzle... is sex an expectation or end result for you???? I don't like that either. If I knew that everytime you came up on me to nuzzle and cuddle you were expecting sex.... automatic turn off. Don't know why. I guess, we women are wired different. We don't or can't put out on a dime. It just takes a little more for us. Wired that way I guess.

Feeling GOOD about herself is a good start. If I am feeling good about myself.. confident and fit.. then I will want it more often. With all the working out she's doing..testosterone/estrogen levels are up. If she's NOT feeling good about herself or confident.. she won't want sex.

BTW.. going to the bathroom right after is important. Dispell all those romantic movies you see that show a couple cuddling and going to sleep right after sex. One of the reasons we go is because it helps prevent URINARY TRACT INFECTION. Any sexual contact pushes bacteria up into the urethra... and if that happens a woman can be suseptable to infection. Believe me... a UTI is not pleasant. If she's ever had one.. she'll be VERY careful to go pee after sex. It cleans the tract out. Has nothing to do with ejaculation darlin. Also.. if you are cumming inside of her... its messy. She'll want to go to the bathroom and clean up. Who the heck wants to sleep in a wet spot????

It happens quite often that people are attracted to certain qualities....and those same qualities and quirks later get on your last nerve. For whatever reason. Actually the intellectual side of you mingled with the GI JOE side is kinda sexy to tell you the truth. So don't be so hard on yourself.

LOL.... I'm laughing with you...forgive me if I find a bit of dark humor in picturing you in a hot zone in the middle of IRAQ... and on your cell phone trying to IRON out your marital issues. YIKES!!!!! WOW... TIMING TIMING TIMING....I can't believe you were both trying to self analyze while under hostile fire. YIKES!!!! Truth is stranger than fiction.

Could it be possible that "SHE" married you for all the wrong reasons??? She's exploring that possibility right now. I know you find the thought painful but everyone deserves to be LOVED. And if she doesn't love you... or feel the LOVE. Don't condemn her for it. I will be the first one to tell you.... the discovery that you are not "IN LOVE" with your husband is very painful.

Try not to throw the baby out with the bath water as you both continue with counseling. Be kind to one another. Remember you are friends and remember to care for one another, respect each others right to FEEL the way you feel.

Dating. What part of the country do you live in???? gotta get creative!!!!

Each city or state has a chamber of commerce. The internet is also a font of info. Look up/call the chamber of commerce and get a listing of attractions to your part of the country. IF.. You were a tourist.. what would you do? what would you see? where would you go? I bet there are a TON of One day, One tank trips you can take.

Sometimes... you don't have to go all that far. There are tonz of fun ideas you can do at home. Whens the last time you had a beach party on your living room floor???? seriously.. go get some BLUE HAWAII ELVIS MUSIC... put out a beach blanket and have a PICNIC LUAI in the middle of your living room.

Go dancing... or take dance lessons. YOU HAVE TO TOUCH during slow dancing... and its fun.

GO get a massage video.. learn how to give a massage... or go on a date both of you to a DAY SPA... get his/her's massages.

Go for a walk together... the LEAVES are phenomenal this time of year.

How about learning a NEW SPORT together. I just learned how to ride a motorcycle... its FLIPPIN AWESOME... lol. And don't tell me that your intellectual self can't see yourself on a motorcycle. You do have that bit of EDGE to you.... and there are TONZ of doctors, lawyers, and intellecutals on bikes. My favorite saying is... "You NEVER see a motorcycle parked in front of a shrinks office" My point with learning a new and exciting sport is...

"the couple that plays together stays together"

I don't think that you are going to be able to change that MASK of yours. Thats entirely who you are. You aren't suddenly going to become animated. However.... maybe, in bed, in the privacy of your bed-room you can find ways to express yourself. I applaud you doing a bit of reading on your own to learn... very very GOOD. I don't see WHY she should object to it. You said something about her wanting to be the TEACHER for you. OUCH!!! Does she feel insecure and inadequate in other areas of your life and this is the ONLY area where she holds the key.. is mistress of her domain and has ONE over on you????

THAT is score-keeping. and THAT has no place in a relationship. NOT a good practice. I personally would be flattered if my mate would pick up a book and learn a new trick or two. HECK... I buy books and have them laying around hoping he'd read them!!!!

ohhhh.. and I don't get WHY she would want to rush and forgo "FOREPLAY"... THAT doesnt' make sense to me. Especially if she craves and wants the touch otherwise. THAT doesn't compute or jive. I think.... maybe you need to RELAX.... and see what the next few counseling sessions bring up. Its a good sign that she wants to go.

Hang in there Poster. Do yourself a favor and keep a JOURNAL. You have a LOT going on asside from your marital issues... but they are all tied together by thin threads.

SORRY I'M GOING TO USE CAPS TO DELINIEATE MY RESPONSE IF IT BUGS YOU LET ME KNOW AND I'LL FIND ANOTHER ALTERNATIVE

I just know how I felt with the p*rn, nor do I totally object to it. However, my situation was different. He was using it as foreplay. With and without me. Many of my GF's do NOT allow it. I think insecurity plays in it. Insecurity in not being able to compete with those perfect bodies.

PORN, I DON'T THINK SHE OBJECTS TO IT, BUT THEN AGAIN SHE DOES. SHE GETS TURNED ON BY THE NAKEDNESS AND PEOPLE HAVING SEX, BUT WHEN WE HAVE PARTICIPATED TOGETHER, WE HAVE WATCHED VIDEOS, AND TO BE HONEST I DON'T REALLY LIKE THE VIDEOS IT MAKES ME FEEL INSECURE AND I THINK HER TOO AS SHE DOESN'T LOOK LIKE THAT OR CAN'T BE THAT FLEXIBLE, OR THAT IS JUST DOWNRIGHT UNTHINKABLE. SO I HAD TURNED TO PICS, THIS COMES AND IT GOES IT IS AN ADDICTION FOR A WHILE I REALIZE IT IS IMPACTING MY LIFE AND THEN GIVE IT UP AGAIN, AND THEN A FEW YEARS LATER IT RESURFACES AGAIN. I'VE THOUGHT MORE ABOUT THE PORN/WEIGHTLOSS CONNECTION, AND I THINK THE WEIGHTLOSS WAS MORE ASSOCIATED TO HOW I TOLD HER ABOUT HOW I FANTASIZE ABOUT HER WHEN I LOOK AT THE PORN. THE IDEA THAT THESE WOMEN CAN BE SO BOLD AND COMFORTABLE WITH THEMSELVES IS SEXY AND I'VE IMAGINED MY WIFE BEING THAT WAY. WHEN I ASKED ABOUT A SUBSCRIPTION TO PENTHOUSE I THINK THIS IS WHEN SHE WENT ON HER WEIGHT LOSS THING. WE AGREED OVER THE PHONE THAT I WOULD TAKE PICTURES OF HER, THE KIND IN THE MAGAZINE, SO I COULD FANTASIZE ABOUT HER PICS AS A REPLACEMENT. I THINK IT REALLY HURT HER IMMENSELY ABOUT 10 DAYS AGO WHEN I SAID I WASN'T INTERESTED IN TAKING PHOTOS OF HER RIGHT NOW AND THAT IT WAS TOTALLY ME. THAT PROBABLY REALLY BROUGHT BACK THE HURT. I KNOW HER MORAL UPBRINGING WOULD BE TOTALLY AGAINST IT, BUT BOTH OF US HAVE SORT OF STRAYED FROM SOME OF THE HARDLINE BELIEFS OF OUR MORAL UPBRINGING.

I just threw the weight loss being connected to The Po*n out there for thought. I WAS also going to also add affair... because this is a sign sometimes. HOWEVER. I was accused of it... and that wasn't the case. I had medical conditions that there was a need to keep the weight down to a minimum. The weight loss also leads to more attention... did I get it? oh yeah.. everyone noticed. Did it make me feel good? You betcha. And he didn't like that to much.

I DID NOT HAVE AN AFFAIR, I DID NOT HAVE PHONE SEX WITH ANYONE OR CYBERSEX, TRUST ME I THOUGHT ABOUT IT AND I LOOKED INTO IT, BUT I NEVER DID. BUT I GUESS I DID IN MY MIND SINCE I WAS LOOKING FOR IT, JUST NEVER FOUND ANY WILLING PARTICIPANTS ON SIGHTS THAT DID NOT CHARGE. I FEEL BADLY ABOUT THAT, AND AT THE TIME I WAS REALLY SLIPPING, I ALREADY FELT DISCONNECTED FROM MY WIFE AND WAS DISTANCING MYSELF EVEN MORE FOR THE UPcoming DEPLOYMENT, A TIME WHERE WE SHOULD HAVE BEEN DOING THINGS TOGETHER, BONDING. SHE GETS LOTS OF ATTENTION NOW AND SHE IS EATING IT UP. I'M SO PROUD OF HER AND SHE DESERVES THE ATTENTION THAT SHE IS GETTING. I KIND OF LIKE SEEING OTHER GUYS OOGLE MY WIFE, NOT IN A 3 WAY KIND OF WAY, BUT IN A SORT OF I'M HER TOP DOG AND I GET TO GO HOME AND HIT THAT AND YOU DON'T KIND OF WAY. THAT WOULD BE TRUE IF WE WERE ABLE TO MAKE LOVE, BUT I CAN IMAGINE IT BEING THAT WAY. I'M NOT MUCH OF A JEALOUS GREEN GIANT KIND OF GUY AND SHE LIKES THAT ABOUT ME AND THEN SHE DOESN'T AT THE SAME TIME. WHILE I WAS IN IRAQ AN EXBOYFRIEND OF HERS CAME SNOOPING AROUND WITH A "FRIEND" OF HIS, THEY WENT TO THE MALL AND THE "FRIEND" SORT OF disappearED AND HE SMACKED A LIP KISS ON MY WIFE. MY WIFE WAS HORRIFIED GUILTY AND HURT. SHE WAS AFRAID TO TELL ME ABOUT IT OVER THE PHONE AS I WOULD BE HURT. SHE FINALLY DID. SHE EXPECTED ME TO FLIP OUT. I STAYED CALM, HEARD HER OUT AND THEN JUST LET HER TALK. A FEW NIGHTS LATER, I TOLD HER HOW FURIOUS I WAS, I MEAN SHE IS MY WIFE! TO HER SHE WAS UPSET THAT I DIDN'T FLIP OUT THAT NIGHT, BUT I REPLIED WHAT GOOD WOULD THAT DO. IF I'D FLIPPED OUT, SHE WOULDN'T TELL ME THOSE KINDS OF THINGS ANYMORE, IT IS MUCH BETTER TO WAIT FOR THE ANGER TO SUBSIDE AND THEN BE MORE CASUAL ABOUT OUR DISCUSSION. SHE HAD LOTS OF GUYS THROWING THEMSELVES AT HER WHILE I WAS GONE. ONE GUY EVEN EXPOSED HIMSELF TO HER AT HER JOB A SORT OF I'VE GOT SOMETHING TO SHOW YOU..... AND THEN HE HAD HIS THING HANGING OUT, SHE LEFT!

Romance novels eh??? well I can appreciate that. Ever read one? one of her favorites? we all have a favorite author or genre... that might clue you in to what her likes and dislikes. I know that when I read a certain scene it gives me a zing. Or I might be attracted to a certain charachter type in the book. Some of todays romances are soft core Po*n. there's no doubt about it. Its more of a MENTAL stimulus than a VISUAL one. Men are more turned on VISUALLY.... women MENTALLY.

YES I HAVE READ 4 OF THEM, SHE LIKES THE ANITA BLAKE VAMPIRE SERIES. SHE LOVES THE VAMPIRE ROMANCE / HISTORICAL ROMANCE SHE EASILY READS 4 TO 7 BOOKS A WEEK AND WE HAVE BOOKS FLOWING OUT OF OUR EARS. WE BUDGET OVER 100 DOLLARS A MONTH IN BOOKS. SOMETIMES SHE ENDS UP BUYING ONE SHE ALREADY HAS. IT USED TO BUG ME BUT NOT ANYMORE SHE DOES BOOKS I DO INVESTMENTS... SHE SENT ME THE FIRST 4 OF THE SERIES WHILE I WAS IN IRAQ. I REALLY ENJOYED THEM, SHE SAID THE FIFTH ONE REALLY MADE HER HOT, BUT WHEN SHE SENT IT TO ME THE PACKAGE WENT MISSING. I'M NOT MUCH OF A BOOK GUY, I HAVE A HARD TIME FOLLOWING THE CHARACTERS NAMES AND PERSONALITIES, BUT I DID ENJOY THOSE BOOKS. MAYBE I SHOULD PICK UP THE 5TH ONE AND START READING IT AGAIN, TRY AND FINISH OUT THE SERIES.

Many women who are turned on by Romance novels will be turned on by INTERNET ROMANCE. The written word. Not saying she's having an internet affair either... just helping you undertand the stimulus.

I TRIED TO STIMULATE THE WRITTEN WORD WHILE I WAS IN IRAQ, SHE ENJOYED MY FIRST FEW LETTERS, BUT SHE WANTED MORE TO BE LEFT TO THE IMAGINATION IN MY WRITING AND IT SOONAFTER STARTED ANNOYING HER. SO I STOPPED IT WAS A SORT OF DICTATED FANTASY THING OF ME AND HER. I'M FAIRLY GOOD AT WRITING, I'M JUST NOT AS GOOD AS SOMEONE WHO HAS READ THOUSANDS OF BOOKS TO COMPARE ME TO.

Touch. WOW.... doll thats a biggy. THAT was missing for me. I'm a very touchy feeling person. I need that. The hand holding. The feet rubbing. The abscent carress accross my leg as we watch TV.

I CRAVE THE TOUCH TOO. I NEED IT. I'M NOT GETTING IT NOW ESPECIALLY AND IT HURTS AS IT SEEMS ANY AND ALL ATTEMPTS I HAVE AT TOUCHING HER IT HAS AN ALTERIOR MOTIVE OF GETTING HER TO CHANGE HER POSITION ABOUT ME. I WANT TO TOUCH HER TO FEEL CONNECTED, NOT TO CHANGE HER POSITION, I WANT TO BE CHOSEN. IF SHE CHOOSES TO LEAVE ME I WILL BE DEVISTATED, BUT IF SHE CHOOSES TO STAY WITH ME I WILL BE CHOSEN. IF I INFLUENCE I MAY NOT BE DEVISTATED, BUT I WILL NEVER BE CHOSEN. THIS IS A TRICKY PREDICAMENT FOR ME TO BE IN.

I can understand where your wife is pushing you at times when you are trying to hard. Let me ask you.... do all your touches and carresses lead to sex???? meaning... when you do go to hug, cuddle and nuzzle... is sex an expectation or end result for you???? I don't like that either. If I knew that everytime you came up on me to nuzzle and cuddle you were expecting sex.... automatic turn off. Don't know why. I guess, we women are wired different. We don't or can't put out on a dime. It just takes a little more for us. Wired that way I guess.

NOT ALL TOUCHES AND CARESSES LEAD TO SEX. SEX IS SOMETHING SHE DECIDES, IT IS KIND OF LIKE COME IN HERE AND FULFILL ME. OR I WANT TO HAVE SEX TONIGHT, I HAVE TO BE CAREFUL WITHT HE LAST ONE AS IF THERE IS A TIME DELAY LIKE SHE SAYS THAT IN THE MORNING IT USUALLY ISN'T GOING TO HAPPEN AND I WILL FEEL LET DOWN. I THINK I TOLD HER NOT TO TELL ME THAT ONCE, I PROBABLY CAME ABOUT VERY HARSH LIKE THERE ARE CERTAIN THINGS SHE DOESN'T WANT TO HEAR COME OUT OF MY MOUTH, THE "I WANT TO HAVE SEX TONIGHT" REALLY GRATES MY NERVES AS I'M UNSURE IF IT IS TRUE OR NOT. IF I COAX HER INTO GUIT SEX AS A SORT OF YOU PROMISED IT ENDS UP BEING WORSE THAN HORRIBLE, LIKE I AM SCREWING A DEAD WOMAN WHO IS VERY VERY PISSED AT ME. IN THE MORNING IT IS A SORT OF AKWARD WHAT THE F*** WAS THAT! i WOULD LOVE TO CUDDLE WITH THE MUTUAL AGREEMENT THAT THIS IS NOT LEADING TO SEX. BUT I WOULD SAY THE MAJORITY OF PHYSICAL CONTACT IS PROMPTED BY HER BEING IN THE MOOD. ALL OTHER TIMES I GET A SORT OF PLEASE DON'T TOUCH ME, I NEED MY SPACE, LEAVE ME ALONE, STOP IT, YOU'RE BEING ANOYING, SORT OF THEME AS FAR AS FEEDBACK FROM HER.

Feeling GOOD about herself is a good start. If I am feeling good about myself.. confident and fit.. then I will want it more often. With all the working out she's doing..testosterone/estrogen levels are up. If she's NOT feeling good about herself or confident.. she won't want sex.

I THINK RIGHT NOW SHE IS FEELING GREAT ABOUT HER SELF IMAGE, PANTS THAT SHE BOUGHT A MONTH AGO DON'T FIT SHE IS WORKING OUT AND EVERYONE IS NOTICING. I THINK SHE LACKS THE CONFIDENCE RIGHT NOW TO SHARE HER NEW SELF WITH ME. SHE STILL WORRIES THAT HER FACE ISN'T PERFECT, BUT I DON'T CARE, I MARRIED HER IRREGARDLES OF THE IDEA THAT SHE THINKS HER NOSE IS HUGE OR HAS ACNE OR FEELS THE NEED TO COVER HERSELF IN MAKEUP. I KNOW SHE IS INSECURE ABOUT THESE THINGS, AND I DON'T KNOW HOW TO APPROACH THEM AS A SORT OF YOU ARE BEAUTIFUL JUST THE WAY YOU ARE KIND OF WAY, BECAUSE NO KIDDING SHE IS SHE IS SMOKING HOT BEAUTIFUL AND I CAN'T BELIEVE I'M MARRIED TO A SORT OF TROPHYWIFE BEING THE GEEKY NERDY GUY THAT I AM.

BTW.. going to the bathroom right after is important. Dispell all those romantic movies you see that show a couple cuddling and going to sleep right after sex. One of the reasons we go is because it helps prevent URINARY TRACT INFECTION. Any sexual contact pushes bacteria up into the urethra... and if that happens a woman can be suseptable to infection. Believe me... a UTI is not pleasant. If she's ever had one.. she'll be VERY careful to go pee after sex. It cleans the tract out. Has nothing to do with ejaculation darlin. Also.. if you are cumming inside of her... its messy. She'll want to go to the bathroom and clean up. Who the heck wants to sleep in a wet spot????

THANKS, I KNOW THAT QUESTION SOUNDED SIMPLE, BUT LIKE I SAID SHE IS THE ONLY ONE I'VE EVER BEEN WITH, AND I DIDN'T KNOW. SO THIS PROBABLY MEANS SECONDARY SEX IE AFTER MY REFRACTORY PERIOD IS OUT OF THE QUESTION. I MEAN ONCE SHE CLEANS UP WHO IS GOING TO WANT TO GO THROUGH THE EFFORT TO GET ALL DIRTY AGAIN. NOT THAT SEX IS DIRTY, BUT YOU KNOW WHAT I MEAN.

It happens quite often that people are attracted to certain qualities....and those same qualities and quirks later get on your last nerve. For whatever reason. Actually the intellectual side of you mingled with the GI JOE side is kinda sexy to tell you the truth. So don't be so hard on yourself.

I KNOW I HAVE A DIFFICULT PERSONALITY TO DEAL WITH, I HAVE ALL THE ISSUES THAT COME WITH GI JOE BUT ALL THE SNAIL TYPE THIS IS MY HOME AND NO ONE ELSE WILL FIT SORT OF SOCIAL INADEQUACIES OF THE NERD INSIDE OF ME. I HAVE SUCH DIFFERENT LIVES WHEN I PLAY THE ROLES OF BOTH OF THOSE PEOPLE AND I AM A WEEKEND WARRIOR SO THE DRILL SERGEANT SIDE OF ME DOESN'T COME OUT AT HOME AT ALL REALLY.

LOL.... I'm laughing with you...forgive me if I find a bit of dark humor in picturing you in a hot zone in the middle of IRAQ... and on your cell phone trying to IRON out your marital issues. YIKES!!!!! WOW... TIMING TIMING TIMING....I can't believe you were both trying to self analyze while under hostile fire. YIKES!!!! Truth is stranger than fiction.

YES YOU NEVER KNEW WHEN YOU WERE GOING TO MAKE CONTACT. I LIVED ON A PATROL BASE WITH THE IRAQI ARMY. KIND OF THE 2 AMERICANS 70 IRAQIS AND NO INTERPRETER KIND OF LIFESTYLE. PHONE RECEPTION WAS BEST ON THE ROOFTOP, BUT YOU SILLOWETTED YOUSELF A BIT AND TENDED TO STAND IN THE SAME PLACE LONG ENOUGH FOR SOMEONE TO AIM AT YOU. LUCKILY, THERE WERE VERY FEW INSURGENTS THAT COULD SHOOT WELL, EVERYTING ELSE WAS A CRAPSHOOT, YOU NEVER KNEW WHEN WE WERE GOING TO GET HIT BY INDIRECT OR BE CLOSE TO AN IED. OR EVEN GET HIT BY ONE. FOR THOSE THAT KNOW THE SITUATION I NEVER TALKED TO MY WIFE "OUTSIDE THE WIRE." WE WERE ALWAYS AT THE PATROL BASE OR "MINI FOB". bASICALLY A BOMED OUT HOUSE WITH A TWO TO THREE FOOT BIRM WITH TWO STRANDS OF CONCERTINA WIRE AROUND IT. OUTSIDE THE WIRE IS 110% FOCUS AS THIS COULD BE THE DAY YOU DON'T COME BACK!

Could it be possible that "SHE" married you for all the wrong reasons??? She's exploring that possibility right now. I know you find the thought painful but everyone deserves to be LOVED. And if she doesn't love you... or feel the LOVE. Don't condemn her for it. I will be the first one to tell you.... the discovery that you are not "IN LOVE" with your husband is very painful.

THIS IS POSSIBLE I'M NOT RULING IT OUT, THIS MAKES ME NAUSIOUS AND IT HURTS, BUT SHE HAS TO MAKE HER DECISION. I WANT TO BE CHOSEN TO BE LOVED, AND I SHOULDN'T AND DON'T WANT TO INFLUENCE HER DOING THIS. I OF COURSE WANT TO KNOW WHY I'M GOING THROUGH THIS OR WHAT DID I DO TO DESERVE THIS, AND ALL THE OTHER QUESTIONS THAT REALLY MAKE ME WANT TO BURST, BUT THE BALL IS IN HER COURT AND I DON'T WANT TO ADD ANY ADDITIONAL PRESSURE TO HER IN THIS TIME SHE IS HURTING, I CAN TELL AFTER HER DISCUSSION LAST NIGHT WITH HER THERAPIST, THEY CLICKED AND THAT IS ALL I NEED TO KNOW. BUT I CAN TELL SHE IS HURTING, I WISH THERE WAS SOMETHING I CAN DO, BUT I DON'T WANT TO INFLUENCE HER DECISION. THIS REALLY SUCKS RIGHT NOW.

Try not to throw the baby out with the bath water as you both continue with counseling. Be kind to one another. Remember you are friends and remember to care for one another, respect each others right to FEEL the way you feel.

I'M REALLY TRYING TO DO EXACTLY THAT. BUT IT IS NOT EASY AT ALL. I OWE IT TO HER TO BE ANGY AT ME TO THINK I'M A COWARD AND AN * * * * * * * AND BE OKAY WITH THAT. THOSE ARE HER FEELINGS RIGHT NOW AND EVEN THOUGH I MIGHT NOT BE THAT WAY ALL THE TIME I DO HAVE THOSE QUALITIES. LIKEWISE SHE CAN BE A REAL BEAR TO LIVE WITH AS WELL. BUT SHE ISN'T LIKE THAT ALL THE TIME EVEN THOUGH I FEEL THAT WAY SOMETIMES.

Dating. What part of the country do you live in???? gotta get creative!!!!

Each city or state has a chamber of commerce. The internet is also a font of info. Look up/call the chamber of commerce and get a listing of attractions to your part of the country. IF.. You were a tourist.. what would you do? what would you see? where would you go? I bet there are a TON of One day, One tank trips you can take.

yOUR NOT GOING TO believe THIS, BUT I LIVE 90 MINUTES OUTSIDE THE DISTRICT. I WORK IN DC. SO GOING THERE IS KIND OF THE LAST THING YOU WANT TO DO AFTER YOU COMMUTE THERE EVERYDAY. WE REALLY SHOULD TRY MORE.

Sometimes... you don't have to go all that far. There are tonz of fun ideas you can do at home. Whens the last time you had a beach party on your living room floor???? seriously.. go get some BLUE HAWAII ELVIS MUSIC... put out a beach blanket and have a PICNIC LUAI in the middle of your living room.

Go dancing... or take dance lessons. YOU HAVE TO TOUCH during slow dancing... and its fun.

GO get a massage video.. learn how to give a massage... or go on a date both of you to a DAY SPA... get his/her's massages.

SHE ISN'T BIG ON THE WHOLE MASSAGE DEAL AS THAT IS ONE OF MY FANTASIES FOR HER TO JUST SORT OF HAVE MY HANDS ALL OVER HER BODY TO WHERE SHE IS PUTTY RELAXED.

Go for a walk together... the LEAVES are phenomenal this time of year.

WE DO WALK THE DOG TOGETHER SOMETIMES, BUT I'M THE PRIMARY DOGWALKER.

WE HAVE STARTED WORKING OUT TOGETHER AND I THINK SHE REALLY ENJOYS THAT, BEFORE I LEFT WE WENT SHOOTING TOGETHER. WE WENT TO THE PISTOL RANGE AND TOOK CLASSES SHE HAS FUN, BUT IT IS REALLY MY KIND OF THING THAT SHE TAGS ALONG. SHE HAS HER SIG226 THAT SHE IS QUITE PROUD OF.

How about learning a NEW SPORT together. I just learned how to ride a motorcycle... its FLIPPIN AWESOME... lol. And don't tell me that your intellectual self can't see yourself on a motorcycle. You do have that bit of EDGE to you.... and there are TONZ of doctors, lawyers, and intellecutals on bikes. My favorite saying is... "You NEVER see a motorcycle parked in front of a shrinks office" My point with learning a new and exciting sport is...

WE WERE TOTALLY GOING TO DO THE MOTORCYCLE THING WHEN I GOT BACK, BUT WHEN WE TRIED TO SIGN UP FOR THE SAFTY CLASSES THEY WERE ALL FULL TO THE END OF THE SEASON. I AND SHE KNOW NOTHING ABOUT MOTORCYCLES OTHER THAN THEY ARE LIKE PIT BULLS... THEY ARE DANGEROUS... BUT WE HAVE A PITBULL AND HE IS THE MOST LAID BACK DOG IN THE WORLD.

"the couple that plays together stays together"

I TOTALLY AGREE, BUT IT IS JUST FINDING THINGS THAT WE ARE BOTH TOTALLY INTO AND IT ISN'T A SORT OF HER THING OR SORT OF MY THING TO GO DO. I CANNOT DANCE WORHT A FLIP AND I THINK IT WOULD BE COOL TO DO THAT, BUT OUR TIME SCHEDULES ARE SO TAPPED RIGHT NOW AND THERE AREN'T ANY COURSES ON THE WEEKENDS, PLUS SHE HAS THAT SECOND JOB.

I don't think that you are going to be able to change that MASK of yours. Thats entirely who you are. You aren't suddenly going to become animated. However.... maybe, in bed, in the privacy of your bed-room you can find ways to express yourself. I applaud you doing a bit of reading on your own to learn... very very GOOD. I don't see WHY she should object to it. You said something about her wanting to be the TEACHER for you. OUCH!!! Does she feel insecure and inadequate in other areas of your life and this is the ONLY area where she holds the key.. is mistress of her domain and has ONE over on you????

SHE MAY FEEL INSECURE ABOUT ME BEING MORE EDUCATED OR MAKING MORE MONEY, BUT I DON'T SEE THIS AS A HER WANTING TO BE THE TEACHER AN OVERALL THEME MORE OF AN OVERGROWN HAIR THAT CAN BE PLUCKED ONCE IN A GREAT WHILE. SHE DOES HOLD OTHER KEYS AS WELL, BUT THIS IS THE ONE THAT SHE HOLDS THE MOST POWER, I.E. THE PERSON WHO WANTS SEX THE LEAST HOLDS ALL THE POWER.

THAT is score-keeping. and THAT has no place in a relationship. NOT a good practice. I personally would be flattered if my mate would pick up a book and learn a new trick or two. HECK... I buy books and have them laying around hoping he'd read them!!!!

I READ SO MANY RELATIONSHIP BOOKS / SEX TECHNIQUE BOOKS IN IRAQ, AND NOTHING REALLY APPLIES, I REALLY LIKED SHE COMES FIRST BY IAN (FORGOT IS LAST NAME) THE FIVE LOVE LANGUAGES, I ALSO READ TWO ADDITIONAL RELATIONSHIP BOOKS BESIDES PASSIONATE MARRIAGE, BUT PASSIONATE MARRIAGE WAS THE BEST OF THE BEST. I ALSO READ 7 HABITS OF HIGHLY SUCESSFUL PEOPLE AND THAT MADE ME REALIZE A LOT ABOUT MY INTERACTION IN MY MARRIAGE AS WELL. THAT BOOK REALLY STARTED MY WHOLE SELF-DISCOVERY WHILE IN IRAQ, I FEEL LIKE I DIFFRENTIATED A LOT BY READING THOSE.

ohhhh.. and I don't get WHY she would want to rush and forgo "FOREPLAY"... THAT doesnt' make sense to me. Especially if she craves and wants the touch otherwise. THAT doesn't compute or jive. I think.... maybe you need to RELAX.... and see what the next few counseling sessions bring up. Its a good sign that she wants to go.

I TOTALLY NEED TO RELAX, THERE IS JUST SO MUCH PRESSURE IN MY HEAD TO "MAKE IT GOOD FOR HER" AND I THINK THIS TOTALLY BLOWS IT AND RIGHT NOW THE ANXIETY AND PRESSURE ARE EVEN LARGER THAN EVER AS WE ARE ON THE WALKING PLANK AS IT FEELS TO ME RIGHT NOW. AND SHE HAS GOT ME AT GUNPOINT AND IS SAWING THE EDGE OFF. WHAT IS BETTER TO BE SHOT OR BE TORN APART BY SHARKS.

Hang in there Poster. Do yourself a favor and keep a JOURNAL. You have a LOT going on asside from your marital issues... but they are all tied together by thin threads.

THIS FORUM HAS GIVEN ME A LOT TO THINK ABOUT, I'M NOT MUCH OF A JOURNAL WRITER SO I WILL PROBABLY TRACK WHAT IS GOING ON IN HERE.

I'M HURTING VERY BADLY RIGHT NOW. SHE IS SO DISTANT AND COLD. I COULD HAVE SKIPPED DOG TRAINING LAST NIGHT AS I WAS THE ONLY ONE WHO SHOWED UP BUT SHE WANTED ME TO GO SO SHE COULD COME HOME AND DECOMPRESS FROM COUNSELING WITHOUT ME BEING THERE. I HAVE HURT HER AND I TOLD HER LAST NIGHT I WAS SORRY FOR MY ACTIONS PRIOR TO LEAVING FOR IRAQ. I KNOW SHE IS GOING TO BE RELIVING SOME OF THE HURTS THAT I HAVE DONE TO HER IN THE PAST 5 YEARS AND WE WILL SEE IF SHE REALLY CHOOSES ME OR NOT, BUT IT DOESN'T MAKE IT THAT MUCH EASIER. I'M NAUSIOUS, I FEEL LIKE I HAVE A 25# WEIGHT PLATE EMBEDED IN MY CHEST. I CAN'T CONCENTRATE, I'M ANGRY, LONELY, AND VERY EMOTIONAL RIGHT NOW.

I REALLY DON'T WANT TO HURT THIS BAD. THIS IS MUCH HARDER THAN ANYTHING I DID IN IRAQ.

Relationships shouldn't be this hard should they???

Primary and secondary schools tried to prepare you for the real world as an adult. But there weren't any classes on "Relationships" were there? I don't remember any. No one ever said it was going to be this tough.

Quit beating on yourself for "all" the things you think you did bad before going over to IRAQ. You didn't do anything wrong. There are DIFFERENCES between men and women and how we define sexuality and how we go about getting our rocks off.

And I when I talked about AFFAIRS... or internet affairs.. I wasn't referring to "YOU". I was referring to her... and how women are mentally stimulated via Romance Novels and the Internet is another avenue of that type of mental stimuli. JUST a thought.

- Secondary Sex... lol. SURE why not??? Yes its possible. yes its great. And .... sometimes the 2nd time around lasts longer than the 1st. Agreed.. that fatique and morning schedules can dictate whether it happens or not. But... it "CAN" be a possibility.

- MOTORCYCLES... lol. Do try it if you get a chance. Its a ball. HARLEY offers classes.. check for a HARLEY Dealership in your area. Classes are more expensive yes... but they are more indepth and longer. His and Her's bikes... it is FUN. Mentally and Physically challenging and fun.

- "The person who wants it the least holds the most power" THAT SUCKS!!! I'll have to agree with you here. And its a terrible feeling. To feel like you have to grovel for.... love. Shouldn't a relationship be where you "want" to take care of each other???? I know there were RARE times when my "X" would initiate and I just was NOT into it or there. However... I can't say he ever got a dead lay. Not as enthusiatic maybe.. but I wasn't contemplating what color to paint the ceilings thats for sure.

I agree......The book "she comes 1st" was a good one. I always reccomend that read to guys.

Sending you big big Cyber Hugs. Go see your counselor. Keep yourself busy with other activities so you do not DWELL so much. Don't hover over her or pry into her counseling sessions. And do the best you can do to minimize the stressors in your life right now. KEEP IT SIMPLE.

Relationships shouldn't be this hard should they???

NO THEY SHOULDN'T BE THIS TOUGH, BUT I KEEP REMINDING MYSELF, I'M FINDING A BIT OF COMFORT IN THE CONCEPT OF WAITING TO BE CHOSEN, I FEEL LIKE 96% OF ME WANTS THIS TO WORK AND THE OTHER 4% SAYS IT HURTS TOO BAD JUST LEAVE IT ALL BEHIND. SHE FEELS LIKE THE BURDEN IS ON HER TO EITHER WORK IT OUT OR NOT, BUT THAT 4% OF ME IS GROVELING. THE SPLIT SIDE OF THE 96% IS TOUGH AS WELL. PRYING MAY ALLEGEDLY WORK IT OUT, BUT DISTANCING FEELS LIKE THE OPPOSITE OF WHAT I SHOULD BE DOING. I MISS THE SIMPLE THINGS LIKE HER SITTING NEXT TO ME ON THE COUCH AND NOT ON THE COUCH accross THE ROOM, TAKING SHOWERS TOGETHER, AND CUDDLING. RIGHT NOW IT IS ALL A DISTANT MEMORY OF GOODNESS, WHERE I AM CURRENTLY LIVING IN HELL.

Quit beating on yourself for "all" the things you think you did bad before going over to IRAQ. You didn't do anything wrong. There are DIFFERENCES between men and women and how we define sexuality and how we go about getting our rocks off.

I CAN SEE THAT, BUT THEN AGAIN I KEPT IT SECRET FROM HER, LYING WHEN SHE ASKED ME WHAT I WAS DOING NOT BEING STRAIGHTforward AS TO NOT HURT HER FEELINGS OR PLAY ON HER INSECURITIES ABOUT NOT LOOKING AND OR NEVER BEING ABLE TO LOOK LIKE THE WOMEN I WAS LOOKING AT. I LIED TO HER ABOUT BEING MOBILIZED, I VOLUNTEERED TO BE SENT TO IRAQ. IT AFFECTED BOTH OF OUR LIVES AND I MADE THE DECISION I FORCED THIS ENTIRE SITUATION ON HER WITHOUT HER EVEN HAVING ANY INPUT. HOW CONTROLLING WAS I TO HAVE DONE THAT. IT WAS WRONG. FORGIVING MYSELF MAY BE TOUGHER THAN HER ACTUALLY FORGIVING ME. IT IS AS IF SO MANY THINGS IN OUR RELATIONSHIP HAVE REVOLVED AROUND ME TELLING A LITTLE LIE TO PROTECT HER WHEN IN FACT SHE IS STRONG ENOUGH ON HER OWN TWO FEET TO KNOW THE TRUTH, I'M THE WEAK ONE FOR SUGAR COATING IT OR DANCING AROUND THE ISSUE OR BLATANTLY LYING ALL TO AVOID CONFLICT.

And I when I talked about AFFAIRS... or internet affairs.. I wasn't referring to "YOU". I was referring to her... and how women are mentally stimulated via Romance Novels and the Internet is another avenue of that type of mental stimuli. JUST a thought.

I KNOW YOU WERE referring TO HER, WHAT I SAID ABOUT MYSELF WAS TRUE ABOVE, BUT I'M REASONABLY SURE SHE ISN'T DOING THE INTERNET THING. I'M NOT GOING TO STEAL HER COMPUTER AND CHECK HER INTERNET HISTORY OR ANYTHING, THAT WOULD SEND ME BACK TO THE PERSON I WAS BEFORE WE MET AND THAT IS REALLY KIND OF CREEPY STALKERLIKE. I COULD BECOME OBSESSED WITH THE WHOLE THING AND THEN REALLY GO OVERBOARD = SELF-FULFILLED PROPHECY.

- MOTORCYCLES... lol. Do try it if you get a chance. Its a ball. HARLEY offers classes.. check for a HARLEY Dealership in your area. Classes are more expensive yes... but they are more indepth and longer. His and Her's bikes... it is FUN. Mentally and Physically challenging and fun.

I'VE LOOKED AT THE HARLEY CLASSES, AND THEY ARE FAIRLY FAR FROM WHERE WE LIVE. MAYBE THAT IS WHAT WE SHOULD DO FOR A MINI VACATION SOMEWHERE ELSE.

- I know there were RARE times when my "X" would initiate and I just was NOT into it or there. However... I can't say he ever got a dead lay. Not as enthusiatic maybe.. but I wasn't contemplating what color to paint the ceilings thats for sure.

I WAS A BIT HARSH BEFORE, IT WAS SOMEWHERE BETWEEN DEAD LAY AND NOT ENTHUSIASTIC AT ALL. A KIND OF HURRY UP AND GET OFF ALREADY. GET OFF OF ME KIND OF WAY. IN THE END I HAD FELT AS IF I HAD TAKEN ADVANTAGE OF HER SEXUALLY.

I agree......The book "she comes 1st" was a good one. I always reccomend that read to guys.

IT IS A GREAT BOOK, BUT IF YOURE UNCOMFORTABLE TOUCHING YOUR PARTNER, AND YOUR PARTNER SENSES THIS, THERE IS NO WAY IN HELL THAT THE TECHNIQUES IN THAT BOOK WILL HELP. I LOVE GOING DOWN ON HER ACTUALLY MORE THAN SEX ITSELF, BUT ONCE AGAIN SHE HAS TO LET ME IN. SHE HAS TO LET HERSELF ENJOY IT AND NOT HAVE THE ATTITUDE.... "I WANT YOU INSIDE ME NOW!" SKWEAKER SWEAK, I GET OFF AND THEN TAP TAP TAP I ROLOVER SHE MASTERBATES TO ORGASM GOES TO THE BATHROOM AND WE'RE DONE.

Sending you big big Cyber Hugs. Go see your counselor. Keep yourself busy with other activities so you do not DWELL so much. Don't hover over her or pry into her counseling sessions. And do the best you can do to minimize the stressors in your life right now. KEEP IT SIMPLE.

I'M REALLY TRYING NOT TO DWELL ON IT, BUT THIS HAS CONSUMED ME. TODAY IS THE FIRST DAY THAT I HAVE BEEN ABLE TO GET ANYTHING ACCOMPLISHED AT WORK. TALKING ON THESE BOARDS HAS REALLY FLUSHED SOME THINGS OUT FOR ME.

GOING INTO COUNSELING I'M NOT SURE EXACTLY WHICH ISSUE I SHOULD BE WORKING ON.

"I AM UNCOMFORTABLE TOUCHING MY WIFE"

"AVOIDING CONFLICT WITH MY SPOUSE THROUGH LYING OR NOT TELLING THE WHOLE TRUTH"

"MY WIFE MAY BE LEAVING ME"

"PREPARING FOR HER TO TELL ME SHE'S LEAVING"

"HOW TO APOLOGIZE AND TRULY SAY I'M SORRY"

"TRYING NOT TO MANIPULATE HER DECISION"

"REDUCING MY ANXIETY DURING PHYSICAL AND SEXUAL CONTACT"

"CONNECTING INTIMATELY"

LIKE I SAID EARLIER BRAIN DUMP. IT SOUNDS LIKE YOU HAVE BEEN THROUGH A LOT AND YOUR PERSPECTIVES ARE HELPING A LOT. A KIND OF TURNING THE 25# WEIGHT INTO A 20# ONE.

THANKS!

Been through a lot??? Ohhh you betcha. LOL. And still working through it. These boards do help somewhat. Sometimes if you are helping others cross bridges you already have..... you don't dwell on your own "stuff" as much.

Glad that you are functioning at work. Try to make lists for yourself of things you need to do. It may help you focus. There's only a few things you "HAVE" to do right now. You have to go to work, you have to eat and sleep. And you have to walk that dog. So concentrate on those.

You can't make your wife LOVE you. And you can't manipulate her or change her. "SHE" is also going through her own stuff. So... it might not all be "YOU". or about you. YOU OWN YOUR OWN NUEROSIS... let her own hers.

I think you'll be ok in your counseling session. You've at least got a good road map. you've listed it here in your post. Its wonderful. You might go down that list…

And try fleshing out the "who/what/where/when/why….."

For instance:

"I AM UNCOMFORTABLE TOUCHING MY WIFE" - why are you uncomfortable touching your wife. List reasons. What is uncomfortable? Are you afraid to hurt her? Are you afraid of rejection? Do you think that what you are doing isn't going to be received correctly? When you viewed porn pix… did you want to touch them???? Did you want to touch your wife in the manner that you saw other women being touched in the pix? What is preventing you from doing it? Maybe its NOT YOU???? You said that your WIFE is really the 1st person you've ever been with. You'd dated 4 other women prior. Did you feel uncomfortable touching them? But you do like…. Your wife touching you. Is it possible that you "LIKE" the fact that she's dominant in this area… and possibly want something of that realm???? Just a thought. Ask yourself these questions and answer them for yourself. Noodle it out on paper. If you see it in black and white it may give you some direction. Or at least food for thought.

"AVOIDING CONFLICT WITH MY SPOUSE THROUGH LYING OR NOT TELLING THE WHOLE TRUTH" - You are NOT the first or the last to do this…believe me. A lot of us practice avoidance behavior. However…. I'll give you points for coming clean before she discovered it. Had she discovered it late on her own.. she'd been hurt. Would there have been a way to discover that YOU CHOSE to put yourself in the HOT SPOT in IRAQ ????? Do you regret coming clean with her? If you could turn the clock back would you???

"MY WIFE MAY BE LEAVING ME" - That she might be. You are right on that score. And is this an actionable item?? something you can do about it??? No not really. It shouldn't hit your list then.

"PREPARING FOR HER TO TELL ME SHE'S LEAVING" - I don't think you can ever be emotionally prepared. Sometimes… I think it might be for the best if its done quickly. Kinda like pulling that band-aid off a scab…. quick = less pain in the long run. Or at least you know where you are at… so then you are on your road to healing that much quicker.

"HOW TO APOLOGIZE AND TRULY SAY I'M SORRY" – You apologize and mean it. There is no other way to make it more palatable or more believable… etc. If the receiver won't accept it... or doesnt' accept it on good faith.. there is NOTHING you an do to change this one.

"TRYING NOT TO MANIPULATE HER DECISION" – You won't be able to help yourself. Its human nature. Do you think you are manipulating her decision???? How??? Then why don't you stop???

"REDUCING MY ANXIETY DURING PHYSICAL AND SEXUAL CONTACT" – I think here you need to explore the reasons you are anxious. It may not all be you. Where does this stem from. Why does it feel like its unnatural???? Have you any previous sexual experiences that were a catalyst for your present feelings. I think… CONFIDENCE reduces Anxiety. Its like learning any other skill. For instance… I get butterflies before I'm going to go out riding. I have that anxious feeling. And I know its because of the risks I'm going to take. There are always risks when getting on a bike. And the key is to MINIMIZE those risks and to pay attention. How do I level off ANIXETY when learning a new skill. BY… learning everything I can about what I am doing. And by practicing practicing practicing those skills when ever I get a chance. That's how I get confident. I think SEX would be the same way. I think you are doing great by reading books and getting other perspectives on the subject and gathering information. NOW… you need to put that information to use. IF.. you do not have a willing partner to practice with.... you won't conquer that anxiety. So its NOT all you. Not at all.

"CONNECTING INTIMATELY" - Think about what CONNECTING INTIMATELY means. Define it. What do you mean by Connecting Inimately. And if your world was OK.. with your wife. … how would you go about connecting intimately. Write it out.. write it down. Put a definition to it. YOUR definition. Not one she wants to read or hear. YOURS.

BREATHE BREATHE BREATHE… deep breaths. Its ok…you will get through this. And this too shall pass… I promise you it does.

I have a GF who asked me how the heII I made it through my divorce. She said she'd have hid under her pillows and not come out for a year. YEP.. I suppose I could do that. But I chose to LIVE. I got through my divorce by pretending he was "DEAD"… gone. Not here. If someone would have lifted him off the face of this earth… would I have had to find a way to survive??? YES. Would life go on?? YES. Would him not being around prevent me from living? NO. So… when I'd gotten to the DIVORCE stage… I chose to slam the door shut and go in through my "GRIEVING" process. Funny that. My shrink did suggest books on death and dying… and the GRIEF process. Because its very much is the same thing….. it's a DEATH of a relationship. To me… it was easier to pretend it was QUICK. CUT AND DRY. Rather than…. Pretend it was a terminal illness with the same outcome. Ick… the later prolongs the

Pain and the ordeal. I chose to deal with what I could deal with… and do it in small chunks.

Allow yourself… only so much time each day to deal with this. One hour … or 30 minutes. But give yourself only so much time to WALLOW in it..and then shut it up in a box. BUY YOURSELF A BOX… or some kind of totem like that if you have to. When you open the box… you are allowed to THINK ABOUT THIS… when the time is up.. you are NOT ALLOWED to thing about it.

Go for your walks. Get physically active. Go and rent some comedy's out… no drama and nothing serious.. keep it light and airy. Don't turn on the NEWS or read the paper. YICK… the last thing you need is more negativitiy. Don't sweat it.. the world will go on without you.. you can miss reading the paper or watching the news for a while. THINK good thoughts. Treat yourself as if you are your own best friend. And you are you know… Your best friend wouldn't let you wallow in it. Don't let you do that either. One step at a time. Baby steps.

When you think of things to work on or talk about... try to think of it as executable or actionable items. You sight the problem.. name it. Collect the data.. analyze it. Look at it through every angle.. is it an execuatble /action item that can be fixed... can't be fixed.... what are the fixes.

The easiest way is to imagine it as a PROJECT. you are good at that. The brief descripriton in your write up tells me that. And that will help you feel more in control and more like you are turning over every rock and doing something.

If the "PROJECT" doesn't exactly go as you want.. thats ok. GET the learning out from it. Make it count as something worth while.

"I AM UNCOMFORTABLE TOUCHING MY WIFE" - why are you uncomfortable touching your wife. List reasons. What is uncomfortable? Are you afraid to hurt her? Are you afraid of rejection?

It is uncomfortable being on top of her because I'm afraid I'll accidentally pull her hair or pinch her skin. I'm also afraid of getting off way too soon. She has said it doesn't bother her, but I think she really doesn't want to hurt my feelings. It is uncomfortable with her on top, cowgirl because when she leans back it feels like she is going to snap my erection off. I have a little more control in this position but the more excited she gets the faster I come.

I am uncomfortable touching my wife because I feel like she doesn't like the way I touch her. It is as if my touch is empty to her and she could live without it.

I feel as if my touch is jerky and harsh like more of petting an animal than loving on a lover.

I fear accidentally pinching, tickling or pulling her hair.

I feel as if I'm not doing the things she likes and I know she likes correctly, not like a lover, but as a mistake-prone machine. Things like biting her on the back of the neck, and sucking on her earlobes.

I'm unsure of what the scale is like once you move from kissing sucking and biting down the body to the breasts and lower.

I feel as if I am unable to feel a connection as to what she really wants next.

I find myself questioning should I suck on her navel, massage her * * * * some more with my hands, suck on her nipples go back to bite her neck and kiss her lips some more. If I go back to her lips I have to be careful as to not put my hand where I'll pull her hair. Where is she at, what connection does she want?

If she is squeezing my head into her * * * * does she want me to lick them, to suck them to nuzzle into them? She obviously wants boob to face contact here, but what feels sparky to her?

I could ask her to tell me step by step, but she feels as if a real lover should know and be able to follow the connection.

These are all things I feel and run through my head when we do our typical routine.

I fear sex being over. I'm afraid that it will be finished soon and she will be off to the bathroom = connection over!

I feel like I can't say what is on my mind like F me like a dirty WH Or. Or I can't do any active positions like dogystyle as the increased activity by me shoots me off early.

Do you think that what you are doing isn’t going to be received correctly?

Yes, I know the above is talking in regards to sex, but I don't feel I can initiate. I'd totally like to make love to her as soon as she comes in the door from work all dolled up with makeup and heels and business attire, but she comes home right into washing her face tying up her hair and putting on pajamas and a t-shirt, slips under the covers with a book and the TV on the side. I feel like anything besides her terms she would take as if my intentions were to rape her. I can't do that to her just to see if that is how she want's me to take control. and she does want me to take control, I just get insulted or beat down "what are you doing" "I'm not in the mood and you cant make me be" "leave me alone" "this is my side of the bed" "that is enough". Even giving her a kiss in the kitchen doesn't seem like it would be well received. am I giving to little tonge too much, is this what she wants is this the passionate kiss she desires does she want me to rim her teeth with my toungue or rim her lips where should I put my hands, on her shoulders the small of her back her * * * should I be massaging, holding on or moving them to different places. What about a hug, should I try to add a passionate kiss or just try to connect.

When you viewed porn pix… did you want to touch them????Did you want to touch your wife in the manner that you saw other women being touched in the pix? What is preventing you from doing it? Maybe its NOT YOU????

As in touch the women in the pix, no. Some of the women are beautiful don't get me wrong, but I love how they flaunt their sexuality. the can walk around the house nude, outside, touch themselves in dirty ways, those are traits that I'd like to see in my wife, but she may or more probably will NEVER be like that. How these women are so seductive, they want you to want them. I want my wife to want me to want to ravage her, even though I'm insecure in how long I can last. I'd be in 7th heaven if she would stradle me when I'm clothed and masterbate for me, no sex involved, but I can't force that and If I ask for it, all hell will break loose, BTW I don't want my wife to run around in the back yard naked. hike in a forest no feasible potential of anyone around maybe, but well you get my point. I want her to flaunt her body to me and enjoy me oogling her. Right now I feel like she doesn't like me looking at her. She's smoking hot, she is a babe, she shaves and prims and preps and she has the most beautiful pale skin and dark red hair with green eyes. And with her weight loss she looks better than she has in the last 8 years. I'm just a nonparticipant here.

You said that your WIFE is really the 1st person you’ve ever been with. You’d dated 4 other women prior. Did you feel uncomfortable touching them?

I never went that far, dated means never actually boyfriend/girlfriend. Yes, this means my wife is the first and only woman that I have kissed, seen naked, showered with and had sex with oral and otherwise. I have never so much as seen another womans * * * * other than at a strip club, but I've only been to the strip club once and did not have a good time at all. My dad died of HIV and I avoided women as a way to never put myself in a pridicament to catch that. Before so much as even touching a woman to say hey you dropped something was out of character. I still reach out a bit, like there was a girl wearing this really neat jacket in the mall the other day and I wanted to compliment her on it, so I tapped her on the elbow and told her it was cool and asked her where she had gotten it from. My wife would love a jacket like that. anyway it was a gift, but tapping her on the elbow was hugely out of character for me and I felt chills doing it. So I guess the answer is YES I feel uncomfortable touching any women. The only other instance that is kind of outside the box is that for Drill Sergeant School I had to do hand to hand combat practice with this other woman in the class, who I was attracted to. Obviously I had to touch her to learn and teach this skill, but it really didn't feel akward. Fortunately I didn't get an erection during the event, but I walked away from that school scared that this would be the kind of woman that I could cheat on my wife with. That terrified me. She gave me her email address, but I threw it away. Not that the opportunity would have presented itself for me to cheat on my wife with this woman, but there was an attraction there. FYI the other woman had just caught her husband cheating on her before going to the school herself, not that she was looking to cheat though. Another example of this is I feel like complementing coworkers or people on the train, women my age, a sort of you look cute today, but I can't, I tried it once, and it was like I was a secret admirer stalker who said something and then went and hid in his hole. So as a practice I don't say anything to women in a complementary sort of way. My wife on the other hand I try to lay on the complements thick. Sometimes I do it more than others, but I try and make it a practice. It is hard right now for me to say she is beautiful, as I question if I am influencing her decisions that she is making right now. That really sucks. OK I think I'm getting off topic....

But in general the whole female touch situation is like hell on my nerves, my anxiety goes crazy.

But you do like…. Your wife touching you. Is it possible that you “LIKE” the fact that she’s dominant in this area… and possibly want something of that realm????

Yes i like that she is dominate in this area, I would like to trade sometimes, but don't neccessarily feel like I could have her craving me, her just wanting me so badly every heartbeat craving even the simplist of fingerstrokes. And I want to feel chosen like that.

Your bullet points have been really helpful in helping me see different angles to this issue, thank you very much. I can also feel that I am avoiding things on certain questions I don't know what it is, but there is that I know, but don't know kind of feeling on some of them. I really need to develop this more. I think this will give me an excelent start for counseling tomorrow.

Thank you very very much.

Hurt hurt hurt cold cold cold, I've so faild my wife for the last four years. All this time I've been thinking I wanted her to come out of her shell and it has really been her waiting for me to come out.

She is furious about how I had treated her the four years prior to going to Iraq. She didn't feel cherished was the word. What the heck does cherish mean? She said she has felt ugly. I know this, but I had avoided saying anything to her. She said she feels like I was never "INTO" her until just recently.

Our fundamental inpass right now is choice. I feel like it is a choice for her to choose to be in love with me again. She feels like she has never been in love with me and does not feel like it is a choice, it is Chemistry, and you cannot create chemistry where it is not there.

I can't friggin even touch her. She is in tears that she may loose her best friend and that I'm a perfect husband in every other respect, but she has lost all attraction for me. I'm a good looking guy, she says, but she doesn't feel anything towards me right now. Earlier today I was 94/6 percent that I can work this out vs the leave it all behind factor. Now I think it is more like 78/22. I told her tonight that I did not think we could be friends after this and this hurt us both. We are best best friends, and the idea of loosing that person to confide is in horrifying. We are missing the huge part. The sexual thing. It is so gone. If I cannot even touch her right now how is she going to know how much I am changing. She sells I sell myself short in so many ways. Like I need her to make friends. She is right. I do use her as a conduit and I can make my own friends. But I'm loosing my best friend. She is shutting me off. I'm starting to wonder if I should start looking to date and find some emotional connections with others. I don't want too, but I'm so wanting this to be over. The pain. I have given a little over 8 years of my life to this person and she doesn't love me. She can't even let me touch her right now. She WONT even touch me.

She is pissed that she was accepting her lot in life waiting for me to come around all the while I was outletting with porn. avoiding her and she knew I was up to something and didn't get into my business and find out. This is killing her. While I was in Iraq, she was missing her friend, not her lover. She had so many guys throwing themselves at her and she wanted to know what it would be like to have the bejezus screwed out of her. But she wasn't going to be that person that did that to her husband in Iraq. Now that I'm back, I feel like she is like let me choose not to be able to love him anymore, get him to leave me, or leave him and find someone who can fulfill that need to have the jejezus screwed out of her.

I'm crazy horny we worked out I could smell her scent, it was driving me nausiously mad. Last night I could have done that for her, but she isn't willing to let me in. After she drilled into me I'm not sure if she will ever be able to let me in. This issue is huge for her. Why should she wait another year or even two for me to come around when I may even take longer than that to really satiate her.

She is right to be mad, but I'm restless and heartbroken and mad at myself for being such an emotionally unavailble person. I've felt more emotion in this last week than I've felt in my whole life and I really want the pain to stop.

I want someone who is going to screw the bejezus out of me too, but I want to know and be known by that person. That could and would take years to develop, maybe not 8 years, but it would take a long time. I'm scared of being alone, of not having someone in my life that knows me that knows who I am inside. Everything else in my life is such a facade, and I'm just trying to make the days go buy without thinking about some of the horrible things that happened in Iraq. and now this has consumed me, My anxiety is at 150% and I had an anxiety attack last night while she was drilling into me. Total emotional overload. I walked out the door for a few minutes to get some fresh air and came back for her to continue. I only wish I could have stayed and let her say everything. Every hurtful feeling that she has for me. Yes, she can't get that back, but I don't care, I want to feel it. I want the remorse for my actions to be so bad that I will never in my life with her or anyone else treat anyone as distant and disconnected as I have her.

I want so badly to get on with my life right now. I'm suffering badly, with the PTSD and being unable to sleep and now this just complicates the can't sleep part. I only got three hours tonight, and then I can't go back. I wanted to go on a walk, but it is raining. So I'm in the extra bedroom and she knows I left the bed. I'm afraid she thinks I'm in here looking at porn, but I'm doing the farthest thing from it. The last thing I want is for her to read my posts. It is kind of like I've displayed her life for the world to see. This really friggin hurts.

I've got my counseling session in 7 hours, There is a lot of pressure that I have put on myself to change, to be different. I don't want to be sobbing / sulking over this, I want to be happy yet hurt that this is going the way it is, but I want to move on with my life in a way that if it works out it does and that may be the greatest thing in the world and if it doesen't then that may be the greatest thing in the world as well.

I want to go back and try to sleep next to her, but I can't right now. I just can't. The idea that she is so close, but so far away is killing me. I'd rather stay up all night in the extra bedroom than lay next to her and seeth. I wish I had a baseball bat, I would go out in the front yard and beat the hell out of a tree or something. I want to yell, but that just scares everyone around. I'm trying to take this reasonably / rationally and my aggressive monster is ripping my insides apart. I'm trembling in fear and anger and I want so badly to be rational to take it in and feel without the physical fight or flight part of it.

In fact I need to feel the hurt that I have placed on her and my life. I need to own up to it.

She says that I retracted from our marriage through porn. I totally wanted to raise the bull * * * * flag and say well you retracted through romance novels, but I didn't. I should have, but I don't know if that is really true, she reads thousands of books, mostly romance. I wish I could get lost from reality like that. Maybe when I came back I would be able to "Cherish" what the heck does cherish mean. She said she doesn't / hasn't felt cherished. I know it is a part of wedding vows, to have and to hold to love and to cherrish. well I kind of screwed up the hold part and since I don't know what cherrish is I've missed the boat on that one as well.

Then there is through sickness and in health. She isn't holding the bargain here so I guess it is * * * for tat.

I'm lonely, tired, emotional, angry, hurt, anguished, sad and horny all at the same time. I wish I could just pick and trade.

This is friggin miserable.

"AVOIDING CONFLICT WITH MY SPOUSE THROUGH LYING OR NOT TELLING THE WHOLE TRUTH" - You are NOT the first or the last to do this…believe me. A lot of us practice avoidance behavior. However…. I’ll give you points for coming clean before she discovered it. Had she discovered it late on her own.. she’d been hurt. Would there have been a way to discover that YOU CHOSE to put yourself in the HOT SPOT in IRAQ????? Do you regret coming clean with her? If you could turn the clock back would you???

This avoidance thing is costing me a lot more than just owning up to porn and volunteering for Iraq. It has essentially enabled her to not feel cherished, I have not said anything about how she looks. she gained weight when we got married and I hated it, but didn't want to hurt her feelings by saying anything about it. She was having issues with acne, but what could I do about that, nothing. So I pretended it wasn't there, or did I.

Do I regret coming clean with her?

No, our passive aggressive nature would have taken its toll in other areas of our marriage and me not owning up to my issues I probably would be leaving her out of guilt, a sort of she deserves something better than me. I differentiated, I let myself be known, not that I am proud of what I had done or flaunting it, because I wasn't and I'm not proud, I just wanted to expose every facet of my deviousness and lies. Did this create distrust, heck yea it did. It made me feel like crap, but really, I think I was feeling worse not saying anything at all I was holding in so many lies, and If I had lost my life, would I have ever been "known" or really "chosen" or really "loved"? Heck No!

If I could turn the clock back would I?

Yes, absolutely, but I wouldn't turn it back to the letter, I would turn it back to our honeymoon, that was the first time I felt shut down. We got in a fight so drastic, that she was insistent on sleeping in another room, but she didn't. She asked me along the lines of how I thought our honeymoon was going and if I was enjoying myself, I said yes, I just thought there would be more SEX. Wrong answer. she totally took offense to it and made the next few days miserable. That is when I started. don't say things that will offend her and she won't make life miserable. Does this all boil down to the first week of our marriage? Wow that really sucks, with a problem like that what was I thinking it has now billowed into the almost immanent loss of the love of my life.

"TRYING NOT TO MANIPULATE HER DECISION" – You won’t be able to help yourself. Its human nature. Do you think you are manipulating her decision???? How??? Then why don’t you stop???

I'm trying to reconnect physically, I crave her touch and empathy like something unimaginable. I'm like half stopping and half telling her I totally want to jump your bones. I precede it with I'm not telling you this so that you will act on it. and then procede to tell her how crazy horny I am for her. My needs haven't been met for the last 5 years, why the hell do I want them to be met now? I should suffer in silence, me and Rosy Palms, but it is driving me batty. If she decides to have sex with me again I will have put so much pressure on the two of us, I don't know if I can handle it, and bad disconnected hyper-emotional sex is the last thing I want her to experience now.

Update:

I know it has been a few days. For me a few days living in my own personally constructed hell. I had my therapy appoitment with the counselor. I hated her, but really, I am incapable of liking anyone right now. We talked and gauged each other. I think she really was trying to figure out how "explosive" I really am. I gave her the short version of my life, dad left my mom when I was 5, mom remarried when I was 7 to an emotionally abisive man who left and came back several times for quick trysts. By the time I was 18 I had moved 21 times and then joined the National Guard and went to college. Father who I had brief yearly contact from the time he left my mother was a gay hairstylist. My mother had him thrown in jail for child support evasion and he was raped in jail where he aquired HIV. He died when I was 18. My mother is a nutjob and I really don't like talking with her. it is a kind of poor me, poor me, do you know I've been diagnosed with this and that and can't loose my weight (400 pounds at 5ft2in) poor me, don't leave me don't go to college the bible says you should take care of your elders, blah blah blah. So mind you I have some difficulty with attachments. Some real difficulty, add on to that that that my anxiety is through the roof with PTSD and the situation of my wife trying to discover if she was ever really in love with me. We are at a conflict in our defintions of love, I think it is a choice, and she thinks it is a natural chemistry that is either there or isn't and she is unsure if it was ever there. This makes me sick right now and it makes her sick too. She is going through her own hell right now, and I feel it is inappropriate for me to touch her. I can get by with getting a hug and a kiss a day, but that is it even though I want to touch her so much more, there is a balance between pissing her off and shutting her down even more or seeing where she is at. The place that I'm at now is one of hope, I just home that one evening when she comes home from work and I ask for a kiss that she will connect, that there will be some emotion behind it not just a peck. that is something that has to happen in her head, I cannot do it for her.

Back to counseling, towards the end of our session I told the counselor that I didn't think we were clicking. She called my bluff, right now she said you won't click with anyone, She said why don't we do our 6 free sessions (paid for by the military) and then see if we click from there. She said a few things that hit me very hard, and desolved it into the psychoanalytic theory of attachment, I've never thought of it this way, but I'm like you know what, I made an appointment anyway with full intentions of calling the agency and requesting a new counselor, but then I got on the web. First I got onto Amazon, and ordered the book, Becoming Attached, by Robert Karen, the reviews seemed to immitate what I was going through, quite frankly I was panicked, I had a total break down and anxiety attack like I have never experineced before, I could totally see myself walking down the halls in pajamas of the psych ward waiting in line in my bare feet for medication to make the pain go away. I questioned weather I was ever truly capable of loving someone, I had the book shipped next day with full intentions of reading the whole thing prior to going to my next session. I want to change, I want to be capable of attaching of loving of being loved. And right now I'm not, I'm capable of being a roomate, a best friend to my wife someone for her to confide in, but I tell these little white lies to get a rise out of her, like I told her today,

Recently I got out of my car I was so mad at this guy, He was in the right hand turn lane and missed his turn so he was making all of us wait for him to turn back into traffic, I got so pissed after laying on my horn he didn't move, So I got out of my car and pounded on his window, and told him to get the F out of here, you missed your turn go turn somewhere else. he drove off and I got in my car and went on my merry way, I told her that it was then that I had realized I had gone too far, and that is part of the reason I was seeking help at the VA hospital.

OK, now my wife is like some guy pounded on my window while you were gone, I called the police, but they didn't find him. i had a preagnant woman in the seat next to me, we were terrified.

Now that made me feel about this "." small. And now if I tell her the truth, it will be like you compusive liar, I can't trust you on casual conversation, how can I trust you on the bigger issues.

Chapter 1 of Becoming Attached, "childern in this situation are fantastic liars."

skip back to the therapy thing, so the idea of doing a Google search on Attachment was fairly daunting, I mean, Attachment is such a broad word. I used some key words from the reviews on Amazon and came to this website, Totally recommended to anyone, with the I don't feel comfortable touching my mate feelings.

link removed

This is this quiz.

After taking this quiz my anxiety went through the roof, I felt I coudn't do anyting right in life and just wanted to feel "happy!" My wife called and I was all a tither, I mean who would choose to live with someone that answered Rarely to almost all of the questions. Everyone of those questions is a part of me that wants to exist. I realized that this is not going to be a 2 month or 6 month fix, this is going to take a really long time. When my wife came home I settled down after laying next to her with a cold uncaring hug that I needed at least she let me lay next to her and hug her. She is worried about me, I told her that I am not mentally well right now and I don't blame her if she walks, I just ask that as long as she is here I ask that she be a sort of guinea pig for me to try and change for me. I said I am not capable of a sexual relationship right now and I need a platonic friend. {Hindsite 20/20 never say this type of thing when you are that emotional, cause I totally want to have sex right now} So be I spend the rest of my life with her, or spend the rest of my life with someone else I need to learn how to become attached, to really love and let myself be loved on the simple things. That day was rough, I didn't know if I could make it to work the next morning I was so distraught. I did I got on the bus and made it to DC, I felt like crap all day, and then I left early to come home, after riding home, when I got home I felt better, {tip of the day, how do you get the lime stains out of a toilet without scrubbing! lay towels around and use an electric power washer!} I was so proud of myself for cleaning the toilets spotless, hey it is the little things, I started some laundry, walked the dog, unloaded the diswasher, and when my wife got home I was actually somewhat pleasant, it still hurts that she is so cold towards me, but I'm trying to change me.

Today she told me that she is scared of me and my PTSD symptoms, like they are getting worse, and I may inadvertently hurt her. Not that I want to, but I already feel like I hear things like gunfire and get really jumpy. That didn't help that I told her about the knocking on windows story, but how can I tell her the truth without it snowballing her anger for me. My lying is one of the things I'm working on. After being an amazing liar my whole life, you don't just stop overnight.

I know lying is bad, I don't mean to do it, I just sort of embelish my imaginiative life as if it really happened to sort of feel like I have someones attention.

Should I tell her, hey babe, look I screwed up, I lied to you this morning. I didn't mean to, but I did. I was trying to reach out for attention and I did it in an innappropriate way. The story about the window knocking, Not true! I thought about doing it while seeing a simlilar situation on the bus and i had a sort of what I would do if I were in that situation kind of mindset, I owned it and sort of made it my own personal reality. I shared it with you as a shock value thing and I feel badly, I don't want to make things worse between us, but I cannot continue to withdraw and hold back.

Or should I just let it get away and let her stew with the idea that I did something crazy that I didn't really do?

i don't know if anyone is reading this post anymore, but some feeback would be appreciated.

Screw it, I fessed up, it increases her distrust of me as there was no reason to lie. She is going to call me back, and I'll deal with whatever I have to. I'll never become a better person unless I fess up and be held accountable. Unfortunately that accountable person may walk out on me. After all it just gives her one more reason to walk out the door.

I don't want this to be a self-fulfilled prophecy. I just want her to really know who she is living with and with all things set aside, Choose to grow old and in love with me.

She is deciding if she is in love with me, or if she has ever been in love with me.

I feel like crap, but that is how it is supposed to feel when you confess, right?

Yes... I'm still reading your posts. I'm with you.

There are a lot of things going on my friend. You are unloading your baggage and really examining it.

I like the fact that you are trying to use everything at your disposal to try to analyze. When you were in Iraq.. you looked for books that would help you. I like that.. I'm like that. Ever hear the adage.. "God helps those who help themselves"??? YOU are helping yourself. Good.

There's a book I ran into called "The dance of Anger" by Harriet Lerner. Also on Amazon. It talks about why we are angry.. how we are wired.. why we do the things we do. Why we do the things we do in relation to our spouses and family. It is a dance. When you and your wife come together in the watlz of marriage.. you each bring your baggage to the table. Just being able to NAME IT... to define WHAT something is.. or Identify the PROBLEM brings you closer to finding solutions to the problem.

Clicking with your Therapist. Well... everytime I had been to a new shrink over the years. (because insurance sent me to someone else.. or the shrink had moved on)... I always found the 1st mtg kind of non-productive. I'd end up regergitating or vomitting out my spew, crying my eyeballs out and walking out a wet noodle. I had only ONE shrink I thought I didn't click with. And ... Now in retrospect. He was probably the BEST one I'd ever been with. My problem with him was that he was too damn direct. He called it like he saw it. Very very raw. And at that point.. I needed kid gloves. Give her a chance. If it doesn't click on your next meeting.. maybe ask for a MALE doctor. You may be able to relate better to him.

Your childhood. In the book "Dance of Anger"... I learned that much of what happened to me as a child determined how I was wired today. In the 1st five years of life.. the wiring that happens up in the old noggin is phenominal. I delved deeper and studied NUEROLINGUISTICS programing.

I think you mentioned you were a computer geek. OK... look at your gray mass as a brand spanking new hard drive. when you were born. And everything that happened in your surroundings was being programed into you. Every little thing was a new program. Everything was being etched in there. NOW.. .you know that some programs are not compatible with other programs right?? and you know what happens then. Glitch. your computer is not going to run optimally. Its not going to do what you require you to do it. Does that analogy help you????

Now the 1st thing you need to understand is.. YOU ARE OK. Its not your fault. You only have or had so much control over what was programed into that gray matter. Its not your mothers fault either... she had her own programming and her own education and did the best that she knew how. sometimes the best wasn't good enough.. but thats ok. It is what it is... and no crying over spilt milk. Its done. Move on.

YOU ARE OK. Its a good good good thing that you can SEE and you are beginning to question yourself. Its a good thing that you are examining your own conscience.. and trying to proactively do something to change it.

Socrate's wrote.. "The unexamined life is not worth living". Socrates was a guy who just loved to question question question. And questioning is a GOOD thing. YOU are questioning. It is a good thing. You've heard.. "NO PAIN NO GAIN" well you are in a period of growth. you are having a rapid growth spurt... and you are in pain. Its to be expected. You are testing all those notions and things you thought to be true.. and you are unpacking your baggage. Trying to rid yourself of baggage that you don't need.. baggage that is not useful to you.... and baggage that is weighing you down.

YOU can only work on YOU. You can only work on changing your behaviors and actions. You can not change your wifes actions or behaviors. HOWEVER... if you change you.. then you then can change her behaviors toward you. In the beginning... sometimes the changes you make seem very fake to you. And they seem not real. Those people around you who know you... may not believe the changes and are waiting for you to revert. Which is a HIGH possiblity. BUT.... what you need to do is.. "FAKE IT TILL YOU MAKE IT" Believe in yourself.

LYING. ugggghhh. I hate it. I'm right there with you bud.. lies have the habit of catching up to you. I have a friend who is a consumate LIAR. I think my friend has lied for so long and for so often.. .they believe the lies. LIKE you... I think they do it to preserve their integrity. They are really hiding from themselves. Painting a better picture of themselves so that they will "FIT" be accepted in the world. A mask if you will. Why?? because REJECTION is the biggest fear that anyone of us has. There is a fear of REJECTION. How do "I" choose to deal with these lies... I DON'T. I let them continue to lie... and I ignore the lies. Because they are only lying to themselves. The way you live your life.. and the choices you are making... really are tranparent to everyone else. At some point.. those lies will catch up.

Your wife fearing you. I can see that. You are feeling out of control yourself. You are admitting that yourself. You said you fear you are losing it and think you'll be locked up in a padded cell. Look... if you really are feeling THAT out of control.. there is absolutely NO REASON for you to be going through so much pain. Ask your MD for some anti-depressants. Something that will put you on a more even keel. Something that will help you not experience such drastic highs.. and lows. Therapy in concert with medication is very helpful. There is no reason you need to be suffering this way. Go see your MD.. and explain the situation to him. Your wife very likely is seeing your fear and I will be the first time to tell you.. YES YES YES>.. it is very frightening to those of us on the outside. I had a friend losing control in front of me... and YES... I feared for myself and my children. Do yourself a favor and get on meds... and keep seeing a therapist.

DON'T bury all this baggage again. Don't stuff it. YOU have been stuffing a lot of emotion and a lot of STUFF for a very very long time. given your history.. since you've been a kid. YOU are OK. YOU ARE NOT any different from thousands and thousands of people out there. There are many many people who are suffering as much as you. The difference between you and someone else is... I think you are strong enough.. and stronger than the rest. YOU WANT to deal with it. You've been on the road now for a while... you've been working toward those changes for a while... YOU CAN DO THIS... and you will be ok.

BABY STEPS.

KEEP BUSY. KEEP WALKING. KEEP PHYSICALLY FIT.. KEEP DOING STUFF to get you busy. CLEAN CLEAN CLEAN if all else fails. Go buy yourself a puzzle or a model car to put together. KEEP BUSY.....

and please please do see an MD.. for anti-depressants. Listen to your therapist.. .and listen to your doctor and take that helping hand that is extended to you. YOU WILL BE OK....

Please please do see an MD.. for anti-depressants. Listen to your therapist.. .and listen to your doctor and take that helping hand that is extended to you. YOU WILL BE OK....

Your words are encouraging, thank you very much. I am on the antidepressents already for PTSD. I think they are working, it is just that there is soooo much going on at the same time it has been and is really overwhelming. Plus it takes a few weeks for them to kick in. She literally dropped the bomb on my third day of meds.

I drove tonight to some friends an hour and a half away as she is having another Girls night out with coworkers, she has to work tomorrow as she did today as well.

I get the feeling she is using work to avoid coming home and dealing with us.

Thanks again, your posts mean a lot to me right now. I'm now trying to read all 400+ pages of "Becoming Attached" before my next therapy appointment, you are right, I'm trying to stay busy, busy busy. I can't control her, but I can control me.

My other thoughts are, what the heck is she thinking, there is no way she did not feel in love with me when we were dating and getting together! We may me out of touch right now, and yes she has differentiated to be a better person since I've been gone, but I'm working on myself, What the F?

Thanks Again

Glad you got on the meds. It does take a few weeks to kick in. Give it time.

What is she thinking? quit trying to psychoanalyze her.. you'll drive yourself over the edge with it. Why does anyone do what they do? Whats the motive? I asked my 5 year old today why she put her teddy bear in the fridge and I got an "I dunno.. cause it was there." Why do people buy things on impulse? I dunno.. but the marketing people love impulse shoppers, thats why the place stuff at the registars.

I have a very good friend of mine asking himself the very same question you are this evening... "How could she have said she loved me... been happy.. and now she doesn't know if she ever really loved me."

That my friend is like asking about the meaning of life. Sometimes the circles you'll go in around and around and still the question will never be answered.

If you could devine the answers or know what the outcome would be...... look into the future.. would you be any happier? Not if the answer is not the one you are looking for. You so don't want to deal with... REJECTION. and who does? Its painful. It hurts.

Do what you can and what is in your control. Deal with your own reality. Deal with those things that you can change.. YOU things. It does seem that you are well on the way to doing that. Focus on you... and less on the both of you and her. The both of you will work out... if its meant to work out. Get yourself feeling ok first. Feel good about you and about living in your own skin. The rest is icing on the cake.

Your right, I am trying to psycoanalyze her. Obviously through the last week or so I have been extraordinarily attentive. Things that I haven't done in the past that I should have been doing all along.

Kissing her before I leave in the mornings even if it is a peck on the forhead because she is asleep.

Giving her a hug when she comes home at night or when I get home. Not a hellow hug a "Hugging till Relaxed" kind of hug read "Passionate Marriage, maybe chapter 5 to know what I mean.

Texting her phone during the day to see how it is going.

Complimenting her daily outfit.

Talking to her (concienciously attempting to make eye contact the whole time)

Lighting up when I see her come into the room (concienciously)

Trying to spend my whole day with or without her without crossing my arms. (conciensiously, this is a terrible negative body language thing I've picked up)

Weekends,

cleaning the house

doing the laundry

fixing breakfast, or picking it up from a Restaurant and bringing it home to her still in bed

So am I doing these things to influence her decision. Who am I kidding HECK YES. but I'm also doing these things because this is who I want to be, this is the kind of man I want to be for her or any other woman in my life should she leave me.

I'm not sure about how much having "discussions" is helping, I know I'm having to face my own fears much more readily. She seems so deterministic. I want to rationalize the why, but today while reading my book I realized this is a defense mechanism of mine. Rationalization is the primative defense called "reaction formulation" My default is "passive-aggressiveness". I'm hoping to move into more mature functioning like sublimation and humor. I tried humor today when we were having a serious discussion. I told my wife that it was good she can laugh about some of these things and laughed with her a bit, fully knowing that my insides were torn to shreds.

Tonight I didn't really want to have a "discussion" but in the silence and a few civilties later, she says "do you really want to have this discussion now?" I said yes!

I started with. I'm concerned that you aren't wearing your wedding ring, I don't know if you forgot or if you aren't wearing it because you are distancing from me. I followed with I don't want to know the answer to that. I have my anxiety that I have to deal with. Right know if you answer that and it is the result I want then my anxiety is relieved. If it is not it is just increased with the addition of fear. So I think I'll stick with resolving my current level of anxiety.

She did clear up one thing for me. I felt like before she was saying that she had never felt "in love" with me. She told me tonight that yes she did feel "in love" when we got married, she is just unsure at this point in her life if she can ever feel a sort of animalistic attraction for one another, she hasn't felt it in the prior 4 years why should she start feeling it now and can she even feel that way now. she feels like she is playing 75% wife and not giving me 100% if she doesn't feel like she can give 100% to me then she deserves to find someone that she can give 100% to. Also I deserve to have someone that can give me 100%. I agree I do deserve that, my hope is that someone is her.

I'm catching myself trying to restate her position to her, I'm trying to figure out the whys in her head a sort of rationalizing, so in the end I can say that evil woman left me for XYZ reasons. Demonize her so I don't face my own inner deamons. Well raise the BS flag buddy, cause rationalization is one of them. I'm a math geek. 100% rational. I have hope that I am able to latch onto the principles of Attachment Theory and not reduce myself to be someone to the likes of Asperger's Syndrome which is very deterministic.

I took a big step tonight in letting her know I felt rageful and loving at the same time, this puts me in a lot of turmoil inside and is tough, but at the same time I'm Thankful. If she had just walked out on me, I would have blamed it on Iraq and continued on the track of my same nurosis.

Iraq had its part. The part it played is that.... We both had issues before I left, we were sort of playing off oneanother. When we split it was a wake up call to us both. I didn't see it until I was mostly through reading "7 Habits of Highly Sucessful People" reading that book put our marriage in perspective of each of us having our own independence but equally interdependent with one another. Then I started reading sex self help books. Anything except the Tantric idea, this fiddles too much with my Judeo Christian Ethic. Then I ran out of those books, "Trust me if it is in digital format I have read it" and I still ordered books to be sent out to me. Then I came home for leave and was incapable of putting the wealth of knowledge together to any use. Uncomfortable and pressured, we both had ideas of how the two weeks were going to be, but they didn't line up with either of our expectations, not that we didn't have a good time, we just were a bit unsatiated and still distanced as I was still going to have to go back for another 6 months. Getting back I ordered Marriage help books. If it was digital I read it, I think I read three by different authors which basically said the same thing just approached the issue with a different or "marriage therapist accepted" way to do things. The majority of which involves "Communication." Then came the 5 love languages, this gave me some perspective on how I wasn't connecting with her needs being very different from mine according to the tests at the end of the book that she and I took. Then came Passionate Marriage. This was the king of marriage books in my reading. It brought together so many aspects and issues and problems and really growing up "Differentiating" it allowed me to relook at the 7 habits book and piece together my dependence / independence / interdependence framework exclusively into the context of our marriage. I told her how great this book was for me and that I had grown so much from reading it. We decided to buy her a copy and we would read it together (me doing a reread) and send emails to discuss. We made it to chapter 3 and I don't think she read the book she just looked at my email comments. This book helped me out, it gave me some defintions for things like intimacy, differentiation, spirituality, understanding the concept of having and following a connection.

On the phone while I was in Iraq, she felt as if I would have all these preconcieved notions about her. She wanted for when I came back to start afresh. Well with mental health getting in the way I was trying. not 4 days before she dropped the bomb I was telling this to the psychiatrist that I wasn't meeting her emotional needs. It was causing some difficulty, but nothing I didn't think would work out. 4 days later Wha BAMM.

Now I am very angry that she has only given us less than 60 days to reconnect. This seems so hypocritical of her after asking that I drop my preconceptions of her as being nonsexual. In fact she is very sexual, she feels like there should always be this animalistic attraction that you just can't keep your hands off of one another. She is not sure that she can get this from me and she is not sure that she can ever again feel this way for me. She doesn't word it exactly that way and don't let my summary fool you. it is way more complicated than that. I'm tempted not to write what she says at all as it feeds my rationalization side.

Switch gears

This morning She let me scoot next to her under the covers and give her a hug. I felt so loved. I did. she stroked my back as I settled in in a nonsexual kind of way. I felt really loved. Before she left for work I kind of akwardly told her that I felt loved this morning and a sort of thanking her for that. Well you can see that she was purturbed by this, so I spent the entire evening stewing over weather I felt loved or just comforted. I had settled in on comforted, but when discussing with her tonight, I took a stand for myself, I am not going to let her reaction determine my feelings. I felt loved goshdarnit. It is possible for one person to feel it and not the other.

She fears that if she does touch me as in like a hug or a kiss that I'm reading into it. She doesn't want to trail me along. Like now she won't change her clothes in front of me. I guess if you are going to leave someone you have to distance yourself and that is natural on her part. It hurts nonetheless. I also would grab her butt or tickle her right now if I felt it appropriate and felt like she really wanted to be touched by me, but I think she would feel acosted and angry if I did those things so I don't but I totally want to.

I have a feel for her point of view. I've neglected her the 4 years prior to going to Iraq even drastically distancing myself prior to leaving. She is angry at herself for putting up with it. Doesn't know if she can handle some of my hangups that she knew were present when we got married. Is fully aware that I am changing and growing up to be a "MAN" but she wants more out of life, "life is too short" as she puts it. Yep less than 60 days! less than 60 days to decide she can't deal! Ohhh I'm burned up. I want to put a big log in the backyard like 24 inches in diameter. Just go out here and hack off a 1 foot section with an axe. That is a good thing. that defense mecanism is Sublimation and is a part of Mature functioning.

What are you going to do?

I don't know, keep reading, keep cleaning, keep praying? I cannot let anxiety and fear get the best of me. I just can't!

My wife said exactly the same thing.

Blue Sea,

I won't say things are going any better for me. In fact I have my own concocted intricate hell. But I will say this. Seeing a therapist has helped. I'm really a go getter, Once I saw the therapist, I had a total freakish anxiety attack. I had to rediscover myself. But here is the thing. One part of me realized that I needed to change me for either my wife or for the next woman that comes into my life and chooses to spend the rest of her life with me. I'm not going to be an instantaneously different person overnight, and trying to change yourself and shove it in her face "look at me I've changed" is going to piss her off. We have had more talks discussions and arguments since the last time I've posted. She is angry with me that I didn't "Man-Up" and give her an ultimatum. This is totally what she expected me to do. But I didn't. she feels like I've wallowed into my own world and kind of wusssed out.

She thinks that I've latched onto the idea that if I don't change she will leave me. She has said this and truth be told, she could leave me just to leave me. not because of the way I act or have treated her, just because that is the way she is. People do things for their own reasons. Ask any parent who has been told by their child that they are gay or lesbian or want to go through gender reassignment. Just as they have to accept that person because they love them doesn't mean the best thing at that point is abandonment. I can't help myself right now doing things for her. Tea in the morning, making the bed, doing the laundry, putting gas in her car. But I was angry when she thought I was trying to change for her. She has reiterated that I have decided that she is leaving me. She doesn't know what she wants. and I'm preparing for the worst case scenario, when in fact that isn't what is going on in her head. If I try to explain what is going on in her head I would end up rationalizing it as in she is leaving me for XYZ reason.

Counseling is helping, most insurances cover it to some extent, and it is worth it to use a professional to help rediscover yourself. I've learned so much about who I am. at first I think I partly did it because my wife was maybe leaving me, but really I'm doing it because I'm in emotional turmoil and I have to become a better person for me. People in your life come and go. Your spouse I think you always hope is there for you, but it is a choice and at any time they can walk away from that choice. Realizing that is a big part of the battle.

Our plan of action right now, is to continue individual counseling. I'm working on the concepts of Attachment Theory and Trauma Healing. I've changed my outlook on life significantly in literally the last few days. With her she is going to counseling. At first I wanted to grill her on all that she was discussing to see where she was at and prepare myself for the inevitable I'm leaving. Now I'm more stable. She's my wife I can still swat her butt as she passes by and work out with her. But right now. I have to work extra diligently to give her her space. She has been going out with guys that are totally not her type. Kind of playing the wingman woman to help get them hooked up. It makes me jealous, but at least I know about it.

From individual counseling we will go one of two routes.

I'll probably continue individual counseling. But the both of us need to do either a couples based marriage counseling or a couples based disolution counseling. Something to kind of bang the cobwebs out and discover ourselves and how we interacted together that made things not work. There could and are things about her that are just as detrimental to what is going on in your relationship as there are in yours. We tend to get married to people who have the same levels of differentiation. Then we get into an apparent noncommunicative gridlock. It isn't that we have nothing to talk about, it is more that we already know the response. So we just don't push buttons. We get to where we deny exposing who we really are and stop negotiating the gives and takes of a relationship. From there one reaches a boiling point and changes leaves or changes and works it out or doesn't change and leaves. Marriage counseling kind of helps that issue along. and Dissolution counseling kind of helps so that you don't beat yourself up so bad and don't regress in life, but move forward and become a better person despite all that has happened. I know we both don't want the alternative.

I'm struggling right now with the issue of Sex. We both, are available for each other. I mean what if she wants to F***. Do I conceed. Or do I do the no contact thing and sort of be like I'm not going to have that kind of contact until I feel that we are both in love with one another. I'll touch you in any kind of way, but we are not having sex until this thing starts to blow in the other direction. or is this just passive aggressive.

OK, the no sex thing that I mentioned last night. I've discovered in myself that that is just more of a way to cope. kind of a make her want me so badly by not giving of myself.... to what is the end result. When we do my anxiety will be so far up the chain that everything will be akward and there will be so much pressure on that one moment.

So I cracked. last night I told her that I had been thinking about some of the things that I had said and wanted to recant. I told her that if and/or when she was sexually available, I am available as well. She affirmed that she was OK. I don't want to read too much into it. It is what it is.

It is really tough to see your partner squirm away when you initiate touch. I've been reading this book on Attachment Theory and young childrent and how ambivalent and avoident children carry their attachment issues later on into life. I know that the self-fulfilled prophecy becomes a lot of it. We push others away to affirm our "avoident" maps. Or we seek and then deny others as a way to affirm our "ambivalent" maps. based on our early lives we have constructed these maps. There is also a "securely attached" map, but I know I have never had that in my whole life.

I have to believe that the chemisty of love exists. That it is possible for me to be and feel in love. I'm spending the weekend at my brothers house with my wife and my brother have sit down and talked about our views and how our childhood has affected who we have turned out to be. I've shown him the website for attachements on adult relationships and also the one on emotional trauma

link removed

link removed

Except for substance abuse you can pretty much nail down the whole gammit of symptoms of prior emotional trauma. There is also a link for an adult trauma history questionaire. I've stewed over hours writing in every remote memory that could have affected me that I can recall. These are the ones I can remember, I'm fully aware that some of the memories are very very repressed as my brother remembers some that I don't and he is younger than me.

here is the link to the questionaire.

link removed

My mind has been in tons of turmoil the last few weeks. I've reevaluated many many things about my life and the patterns that I've developed.

For example. I don't trust anyone. I sort of do, but I never really really trust anyone. So how do I confirm the map of mistrust. I lie. I become a fantastic liar. Everything about how I display my life becomes a lie to my family, my loved ones, my friends and coworkers. Then when I get called out on it and ostracized it reafirms my "avoidant/ambivalent" attachment behaviors and also further affirms that I cannot trust anyone, because they will abandon/ostracize me. I can live life on my own. I am capable and I don't need anyone else, my subconscious screams, but my conscious is dealing with all the repercussions and numbing the actual feeling so I become all the more stoic.

Once I edit the personal trauma survey for appropriate content I'll post it here so that others can see how I'm dealing with my wife, and still staying around to give her the space and opportunity to feel in love with me. I've shut her out so many times over the last 5 years. I know it is going to be a tough transition for both her and me, and it will either happen "magically" or it won't. I want to feel. I don't want to be angry. I want to feel joy I want to feel love, I want to feel angy, I want to feel remorse. I don't want to repress myself anymore and be as others may see as "stoic."

The next crazy thing was while looking at my brothers pictures of us that he has collected. you see a total paradigm shift in our facial expressions from being happy little children to almost ghostlike and morbid photo expressions. I've been struggling with the idea that I have never been happy. but after seeing those photos I know that there is a repressed little happy me that I want to let out. and part of that means tearing down emotional walls of repression and delusion. It might not happen overnight, but I want to feel the full range of emotions. and express them in healthy ways like humor and sublimation. not passive aggressiveness and acting out.

I know it is a lot for my wife to finally start to hear and become knowlegable about what really happened to my brother and I when we were younger. I don't want to use this to change her feelings towards me. To play the victim where she stays around to take care of my tormented soul as to not damage my psyche any more than has already been done. I want to feel the chemistry... to feel in love. I know now that it isn't a choice and that the human spirt is resiliant and capable. I want so badly to fall in love with my wife. But if it is not her then I want so badly to fall in love with another to truly experience the chemistry of being "IN LOVE"