Battle of the sexes in the academic world

Nooo! You misunderstood me. I didn't say women are inviting misogynistic tendencies. I said there are some women who support it against other women. In a broader sense, they are almost as guilty of supporting gender stereotypes as some men are. This is what I was trying to say. These women then teach their sons the same myths and it gets perpetuated.

And how this relates to the women-only meetings? Well if the objective of your group is to remove obstacles against women, you might have better chances if you rope in men who support your cause.

Jeez, everything a guy says *has* to be misread and interpreted in the most negative way possible

Jeez, everything a guy says *has* to be misread and interpreted in the most negative way possible

Its not that I was interpreting in the most negative way possible, but you're explanation was needed to clarify it. Otherwise, it not really a stand alone comment or fully illuminated in the context it was originally.

NO, just that all men shouldn't be blamed for the misogynistic tendencies of some men (past and present). There is no sense in dividing people into two camps based on gender (and there are many women who perpetuate misogyny). It would make far more sense for women to get together with like-minded men to discuss issues.

I recall a time when men weren't reacting to feminism so defensively.

Men and women have gotten together on issus of gender equality, but in the past decade, it's become popular to view feminism as a cartoon.

The term "bra burner" was coined by a man, even though it never happened.

Since the 70s I've considered myself a feminist for many reasons, first and foremost being self-interest. Women pushed for more accessable birth control, and Planned Parnthood was a result. I got a vasectomy there at a young age. Unlike older generations, the pressure to have kids was nil, since BC had become widespread since women now had the power to prevent pregnacy. Up until then, family planning was a crapshoot, and men were expected to prove their fertility.

Reproductive freedom is a relatively new concept. In the 60s, sex pretty much meant babies.

That's just one issue where men and women both gained freedom of choice due to feminism.

All these issues are "Cartoons". And this is where my argument lies. You will never please everyone. No matter what rights are given, and what equalities are established....there will always be AT LEAST one group that will complain, whine, or raise a brow. That's life I suppose. I personally think feminism can be a very good thing for women, and of course, the term itself has definitely picked up some "negative" connotations over the years. But, I see no problem in women sticking together to promote successful endeavors for eachother. However, I personally think for the most part, women are capable of anything they desire in this country. The sky is the limit. IF you want to fight for equality, and see where true discrimination and mysogyny lie, move to the middle east.

All these issues are "Cartoons".

So you think its laughable? That is very insulting to any woman that has ever had her butt grab by a male co-worker, or been subject to a sexist remark. You think its laughable that there are still insurance companies that will pay for Viagra and won't for birth control.

IF you want to fight for equality, and see where true discrimination and mysogyny lie, move to the middle east.

How do you know what I live with every day to say that? You have no concept of the quality of my life, you do not live every day beside me seeing and hearing all I do. You don't have to worry about when the last rape occurred on campus, or the fact that you have to walk home alone where there aren't always stree lights, you don't know anything of what it means to be a woman.

So you think its laughable? That is very insulting to any woman that has ever had her butt grab by a male co-worker, or been subject to a sexist remark. You think its laughable that there are still insurance companies that will pay for Viagra and won't for birth control.

 

 

How do you know what I live with every day to say that? You have no concept of the quality of my life, you do not live every day beside me seeing and hearing all I do. You don't have to worry about when the last rape occurred on campus, or the fact that you have to walk home alone where there aren't always stree lights, you don't know anything of what it means to be a woman.

And twice as much money or more is spent by governments on breast cancer research than on prostate cancer.

Or that 97% of workplace fatalities are suffered by men.

Or that even some governments are now recognising that boys are being failed by the system in education in alarming ways - not least the phenomenal amount of male children being drugged by such behaviour modifiers as Ritalin.

There is discrimination against both genders - perhaps if both could recognise that fact life might be made better for everyone.

That is very insulting to any woman that has ever had her butt grab by a male co-worker, or been subject to a sexist remark.

 

Most decent men find this equally appalling. It would only help the feminist cause if you didn't alienate these men (with women-only meetings and such).

 

How do you know what I live with every day to say that? You have no concept of the quality of my life, you do not live every day beside me seeing and hearing all I do. You don't have to worry about when the last rape occurred on campus, or the fact that you have to walk home alone where there aren't always stree lights, you don't know anything of what it means to be a woman.

 

Fair enough but you don't know what it's like to be a man either. Do you really think it's easy (or easier)? How about you tell me all the cr** you put up with as a woman and I'll tell you what a man has to put up with. I think we can argue till the cows come home about which sex has it better in North America, but really the answer is neither. (Or both if you're an optimist )

EDIT: Men overall do it have it better in the Middle East, Africa and most of Asia. But that's a no-brainer.

I worry about walking home alone at night as much as you do. My university has a self defence program for women but none for men! I asked them and they shrugged it off.

And twice as much money or more is spent by governments on breast cancer research than on prostate cancer.

And I wonder how many people chose it as their pet cause. I've seen several people pick up the cause only because they get something pink out of it. But you have to realize breast cancer isn't just a woman's disease, men get it too. Granted not as often, but men have breast tissue and it can produce tumors. It would be more comprable to compare ovarian or cervical and prostate research.

The Ritalin use is something that I am appalled by, I can't believe that people really are so willing to drug their children. That has a lot to do with parenting, too many kids get put in front of a TV instead of being taken to the park or played with. My brother and I both were highly active children, we lived in the country where we were safe to roam around, when we moved to the city both of us had behavioral problems becuase our living space was reduced from acres and acres of forrest and farm land to a postage stamp in a crowded suburb. Alot of children don't have proper outlets for all of their natural energy and parents don't spend near enough time nuturing them or giving them acceptable means to deal with that energy.

My son-in-law has a problem with his son by his first wife. He was put on Ritalin and when he objected he was told that if he took his objections further the school (teacher, principal, doctor) would side with his ex in an application to have him lose his custody and visitation rights.

But my main point is to say that there is a huge discrimination against males in society that is under-reported or appreciated. Just as there is discrimination against women. The main issue it seems to me is to remove the discrimination and have all people treated equally. That includes taking equal responsibility in all aspects of life - a theme I push constantly on here.

Rights and responsibility - there's a slogan for the age!!

In Canada? Wow, sounds just as bad as the U.S. This is one of those things that makes me question the 'freedom' we supposedly have. Gunpoint medicine.

DN,

You're right about men's issues being less visible at times, and it would be better to have it dicussed than ignored or turned into a joke. Some women regard the men's movement as guys in a circle playing drums.

A battle of the sexes? I surrender to both sides.

The point I am trying to make is equality is something for everyone to fight for - for everyone. I have two daughters, a grandson and a granddaughter. I want them all to be able to live to their full potential untrammeled by outdated ideas - even new outdated ideas.

I want my daughters to be able to succeed at anything they try if they can - unhampered by discrimination. I want the same thing for my grandson.

A man who complains about not having the same chances of gaining custody of his children but has never changed a diaper is in a weak position.

A woman who gets equal pay for doing the same job as a man but expects a man to pay for her entertainment when dating is in a weak position.

We are in a time of change - and it could be good change if only people would see opportunities in it rather than pitfalls. Equality doesn't have to mean that one 'side' loses - it can mean that both 'sides' gain.

Good points, DN.

And I wonder how many people chose it as their pet cause. I've seen several people pick up the cause only because they get something pink out of it. But you have to realize breast cancer isn't just a woman's disease, men get it too. Granted not as often, but men have breast tissue and it can produce tumors. It would be more comprable to compare ovarian or cervical and prostate research.

This article from the Denver post is interesting:

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Extracts:

To be fair, we must also stop focusing solely on women. Heart disease and cancer's toll on our men are equally astounding. According to the ACA, more than 230,000 men will be diagnosed with prostate cancer this year - more than the 211,000 women who will learn they have breast cancer.

This year, in lieu of a pink ribbon, I'll be wearing brown and light blue in support of my husband - another nagging reminder of my commitment to his prostate and colon health and, ultimately, our life together. Oh, the romance.

DN I really agree with you.

I'm sorry your son-in-law had to go through that. I know there is a big apathy in schools in the US, they like to drug problem kids to control them so the other students don't suffer. But it makes you wonder, are classrooms eventually going to be filled with zombie children that have been equalized of all their child-like qualities? Children I've seen raised with highly interactive parents that play, read, and make good examples are children that usually don't have as many problems. My family friend that teaches kindergarten says her worst students have parents that really don't try, they've thrown up their hands. As a teacher she feels so many parents send their children to school as a babysitter and don't show any interest. Some teachers are very bad and don't really care, but most don't want to deal with children as a babysitter, they want to teach. So its hard to say where things can go, the child is the real victim, not the parents or the teacher. They are the ones that deal with all the fallout and then get the life on drugs. I really worry about the long term problems children that are medicated will have, every drug that goes into their little bodies is damaging them because no drug benefit comes without a cost.

DN I really agree with you.

 

They are the ones that deal with all the fallout and then get the life on drugs. I really worry about the long term problems children that are medicated will have, every drug that goes into their little bodies is damaging them because no drug benefit comes without a cost.

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Extract:

Common Ritalin side effects are:

 

Difficulty sleeping

Loss of appetite

Irritability

Nervousness

Stomach aches

Headaches

Dry mouth

Blurry vision

Nausea

Dizziness

Drowsiness

Tics

Other Ritalin side effects can include:

 

Hypersensitivity

Anorexia

Heart palpitations

Blood pressure and pulse changes

Cardiac arrhythmia

Anemia

Scalp hair loss

Psychosis

 

The following, though rare, have also been reported as Ritalin side effects:

 

Abnormal liver function

Cerebral arteritis

Leukopenia

Death

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Extract

Prescriptions for Ritalin are up 600 percent this decade. If the current rate of increase continues, some 8 million American schoolchildren will bo on the drug next year. The United States uses five times more Ritalin than the rest of the world COMBINED

That really is aweful, some children may need help, but not all of them.

I had a friend that was really ADHD, not just a trumped up version of it, he really couldn't sit still and as an engineering student that was very hard on him. He had been on Ritalin as a child, but when he started his college years he used alcohol and pot instead. He didn't like doing either, but he couldn't focus on his work and would have trouble staying with tasks long enough to get them done. I lived with him for a year and found he was really antsy and always going, he was a great guy, but his constant need to move made it tough on him.

To all,

This si why DN is so right on on what this thread is all about. We all have our pet issues and we must learn to accept and support others on those issues even if we may not agree with them. I'm a 36 year old male that's dealt with ADD all my life. My mother was too poor to buy the drugs and follow the doctors advice when she was asked to drug me up when I was seven.

I've struggled with this all my life, but made it work to my advantage in the career I chose. My schooling suffered since I learned way too fast then the class, so I failed as a student. Same goes for college since I dropped out to get out of the slow pace of learning, yet I love my business because there is so much to do and it keeps my mind quite busy. This is why the education system NEEDS to change in order to provide proper training to future adults.

All I can say that we all have valid reasons for what we believe in, yet need to understand that this is not a battle of the sexes, races, politics, and so on. We can all come up with so many counterpoints to every argument we pose and we owe it to ourselves to work as a team and listen to the venting of our peers.

Education needs a lot of reform. Gifted students that get bored and act out on that get label as trouble. My brother was a smartbutt and made a few choice comments in class, the teacher thought he'd teach him a lesson and said my bro got to take the final for the class right then (it was the 4th week of class) and that would be his grade. My brother destroyed the final, he missed 1 question, but it was a debatable point. The teacher started giving him different work and one of his biggest supporters when he got in trouble with other teachers. The teacher could have sent him to the office with detention, but instead gave him a challenge, that was the only class my brother got A's in.

There seems to be a lot of trouble with gifted and slow children not being properly cared for. The system is based on a norm that may be good for 70% of the students, but do the other 30% really need to be suffering because they don't fit the bell curve. Child development has made some serious break through in the way children learn, but there is only a little reflection of that in modern schooling. Children have boundless potential, but how much of it get squashed by the school system?

The education system is geared towards becoming a "good little robot" that does what it's told. This is why corporations rather hire employees with crudentials than employees with a brain. I know I'm mostly venting with this post, but this is one of many selfish pet issues I believe in.

My self for example got D's and F's in high school, yet I got a 4.0 in college. I chose not to finish college and join the work force and learn the business from hands on practice. If you think that being in a male oriented environment is tough on being the smart woman you are, imagine being in an environment where you know way more about the job than your unisex peers, yet get paid half as much for not having a college degree; it happened to me at Bank of America.

I've had bosses that I had to teach how to be a proper leader with organizational management techniques. Wow! It's a shame since they have the MBA degrees and I don't. This is why I've been self employed for the last six years. Now I'm the one who gets credit for my abilities.

This thread has gone off topic and is starting to be disrespectful.

Topic closed.