Who is and who isn't?

Hi,

I am 18, male, and straight. I'm very interested in sexuality and I was wondering if someone could help me out with a dilemma. I'm very sympathetic to homosexuals though I don't often show it through activism or participation in the GLBT club at my school. I have a roommate who does however. He's straight as well. Recently, he participated in a program (I think it's called 'alliance' or something) where he learned a lot about homosexuality and he's been spouting off statistics and facts and what not ever since. The one that really gets to me, that he seems to repeat most often, is that one out of every ten people are gay.

Now, I don't mean to sound like I know anything about this, but where the hell does that come from? Is one out of every ten people born with a 'gay gene?' I mean, historically, homosexuality has been a very emotional thing, and wasn't always even connected with love or relationships, such as the Greek philosophers who had homosexual relations or Greek and Egyptian armies that would have relations before battle (I heard that somewhere, not sure of its validity). Not to mention that this stat doesn't account for bisexuals or people who might not actually be gay. Also, doesn't this defy the whole 'Kinsey Scale' thing, since each person falls on a different point of the scale at different times?

I have heard this statistic before, but I thought it had been falsified in favor of the theory that people experience different levels of homosexuality. But if the statistic were to say that 1/10 people experience any homosexual feelings, I wouldn't believe it then either! I would think the number would be much greater! Still, we can't label these people as gay!

My interest in this isn't entirely coincidental. I have had a few homosexual thoguhts in my life, but I still am far more attracted to women than men. In fact, I almost have to try to have sexual thoughts involving men. The thing is, however, that it's become easier over the years as I do it more, as though I'm training myself to be bisexual. That's why I'm skeptical of this whole 'gay gene' stuff. If I'm born with it, then why do I have to train myself? Here's my personal opinion, and anyone is welcome to try to change it: Everyone is a little more gay or a little less gay than everyone else, but no one is barred from being straight or gay based on genetics alone, and society plays a much more important role.

Thank you for your time, and I would appreciate any responses.

10% would be 30 million people. That's very high. If anyone claims that they know the exact percentage of people with a gay "gene" is full of * * * *. For one, there is no census like that (the closest thing would be a magazine poll or something), and two, no one knows whether it's a "gene" or not. As for 1 in 10 people, that is wrong. If you go to San Francisco, it is probably 1 - 3 out of 10. If you go to a small town in Alabama it is probably 1 in 10,000. The only way to accurately count every gay person in the country would be for the Census Bureau to do a little addition to their count every 10 years, which we know will never happen. You also have to factor in the people that are ashamed to admit their status.

I dunno about the gene trait. Like in 1970's it has long been believe it was either that or a mental disease, off course this has changed significant. About the census, I dunno, they're afraid to admit what they are, there was a classmate on one of my class who's a les. Since it's not usual, they are thus afraid of being rejected cuz of their different sexual preference. As for saying that everyone has a little tought about it, I doubt it, always been straight, never for once had thoughts about girls. I do agree they are just born that way.

 

Now, I don't mean to sound like I know anything about this, but where the hell does that come from?

There isn't any way to know how many people are gay. Kinsey's figures are a baseline, but are probably only a rough gauge.

But if the statistic were to say that 1/10 people experience any homosexual feelings, I wouldn't believe it then either! I would think the number would be much greater! Still, we can't label these people as gay!

That's true.

My interest in this isn't entirely coincidental. I have had a few homosexual thoguhts in my life, but I still am far more attracted to women than men. In fact, I almost have to try to have sexual thoughts involving men. The thing is, however, that it's become easier over the years as I do it more, as though I'm training myself to be bisexual. That's why I'm skeptical of this whole 'gay gene' stuff. If I'm born with it, then why do I have to train myself?

Some people don't have to "train themselves", as you put it, they just are same-sex attracted, very clearly, from the get-go. Other people have much more of a struggle with their sexual identity, being somewhat attracted to both sexes, and may subconsciously downplay their same-sex attraction for a variety of reasons, including internalised homophobia.

Here's my personal opinion, and anyone is welcome to try to change it: Everyone is a little more gay or a little less gay than everyone else, but no one is barred from being straight or gay based on genetics alone, and society plays a much more important role.

It's a combination of nature and nurture in my view as well, but I don't think we can say, generally, to what degree in all cases. It's a combination of temperament (which is innate), and personality traits, some of which are innate and some of which are environmental.

There's way too much back and forth about the "born gay" issue, in my opinion. It's beside the point. A certain % of the population simply is gay, at the end of the day, and this has always been the case, and that's the reason why they should be treated equally with non-gay people. The massive arguments on both sides about being "born gay" strike me as being very much beside the point.

To be honest I don't know where the '1/10 people are gay' statistic comes from but I've never had any qualms with it. Maybe this a no brainer but you can't tell appart everyone who is gay and who isn't, it's not stamped on your forehead. You'll probably never find out a person is gay unless you actually ask them, most people don't go around introducing themselves as 'Joe Blog - I'm gay'. Of course some people are affriad to tell anyone about their sexual preferance but as I said, not everyone wears it like a badge of honor.

I think I do have to agree with the "train themselves" comment, but not maybe in the way it was meant. People do have to do a certain ammount of "discovery" if you were, if they're not exposed to anything other than heteorosexuality then the concept of homosexuality is going to be a new expierence to them that they'll want to explore. Also people in this situation who do find that yes, they are homosexual or indeed bisexual, usually will look for ways to express this new found indenity. They'll do this through what we see as "gay culture". However, as someone who is bisexual and has never been part of any kind of gay culture scene, I don't like the way gay culture is presented as the way all homosexual and bisexual people like, because that just isn't true. It's also probably the main reason why people are surprised when they can't tell a gay person in the street apart from a straight person.

I agree with novaseeker on the "gay gene" thing, personally I couldn't care less about the subject. I don't care why I'm attracted to both men and women, I just am and I'm prefectly comfortable with that. I'd like to say though that frankly I believe that everyone's sexuality is blank at birth, we are infact all bisexual, the only thing that stops us from realising this is society and religion. The chances are most of you will spent most of your childhood only ever being exposed to heteorosexual couples unless you have gay parents. This isn't neccisarily anyone's fault but I do think there's a serious lack of education that needs to start young, kids learn very quickly to be homophobic.

I have had a few homosexual thoguhts in my life, but I still am far more attracted to women than men.

I have to actually respect you for saying that as someone who is straight. 99% of men seem to think that admiting they've had flash thoughts of homosexuality will turn them into raging benders. It's perfectly natural, see what Fraude (sp) has to say about the subject.

One in ten, hm. I wish. Really the statistics seem to vary from area to area as far as I can see. How comfortable and out you are is another factor all in its own. Its like I've said in many posts too, here if you're a gay man, eh its not good but its not as problematic, from my personal experience if you're a lesbian, its the end of the world to some people. Other areas are the complete opposite where lesbians are accepted more readily and gay men are the outcasts. It really really depends.

As for homosexuality on a nature (gene) vs. nuture (environment) I think we've got arguments for both. For myself I was interested in women far as I remember now before men, BUT, due to the fact I was raised in a family with rampant homophobia where they'd openly say they'd rather see homosexuals dead than tolerated wellll its not exactly the best environment to be thinking about the same sex so in regards to personal training I tried that with the heterosexual side. Yet, I think in the end you are as you are, I tried to be with men and push away the thoughts; I myself became extremely homophobic for awhile and I tried a hundred other things until I finally realized I am what I am for whatever reason. I thought of women well before I ever had any negative experiences with a man so I don't believe I side so much on nuture.

Yet, there are those you'll hear that will claim its all nuture and nothing more and one simply makes a decision due to some event or whatever odd reason they choose. Of course those that make the decision I'd really like to see where they are ten years down the road. I personally don't think one would be able to keep up with the "training" for ten years and self motivation to be gay when there is so many more benefits to being heterosexual out there. Why would you be? I don't honestly know.

Nonetheless, personally, despite I have more faith in Science as a gene, I really would rather it not be. Gay is a minority to start with, if they detect a gene we might as well become extinct because many parents aren't going to say, yippee, my child is Gay +. That wouldn't go over well. Especially if it was something detectable like some genetic disorders in Utero. I would presume a skyrocket in abortions over the potential of a gay child.

Further, if there was a gene, who knows what they'd try to Guinea Pig us into. Then you'd rather not be out and gay, not because of hate crimes, but because being a lab experiment doesn't appeal either. Kind of lose/lose no matter how you look at it.

Lots of people have homosexual experiences in life, even more have homosexual thoughts. Sexuality can be broadly defined by three characteristics:

1. Sexual Behaviour (who do you have sex with?)

2. Sexual Preference (who do you find sexually attractive?)

3. Sexual Identity (what sexuality do you identify as?)

Believe it or not, all three can be completely different in one individual! For example, it is common for people with sex addictions to "act out" in funny ways related to their addiction. I might be having male-male sex, even though my sexual preference is bisexual, and my sexual identity is heterosexual. Or, I might be having heterosexual sex, even though I am a homosexual and identify as a homosexual!

People don't make this distinction and it causes lots of heartache. There are many reasons why someone will exhibit homosexual behaviour. Sometimes it is simply out of curiosity, sometimes because they are horny and there are no other females.

To give a bit of insight I will list my three sexual characteristics:

1. Sexual Behaviour : Bisexual

2. Sexual Preference : Bisexual

3. Sexual Identity : Homosexual

Why would I identify as something different than my preference? Because its easier. Its actually quite hard to live life as a real "bisexual" because people don't take you seriously, and its confusing for everyone. So i find it easier to just identify as a homosexual because thats something people understand and I fit within a specific culture, peer group, etc... Its finite and people then get an acceptance to it. Imagine if I told my mum I was bisexual! She would start trying to set me up with girls so I would give her some grandchildren...

I don't know about the nature versus nurture thing. I could probably date girls and guys, but to be honest, I find dating guys much easier. I understand them and I share the same hobbies. Dating a guy is like dating your best friend who wants to have sex all the time.

I don't think there is a "gene" for being gay. But I do think sexual orientation is determined, in the womb, by hormonal changes.

Seeing as females are the prototype for human beings(the reason why men have nipples) I believe that, on frequent occasions, nature can wire a human being differently. Which is probably why there is a higher instance of gay men as opposed to lesbians. And probably why more people vary inbetween homosexual and heterosexual.

I won't go into elaborate detail about the hormonal thing, but I was reading it in a book regarding sexual orientation and it made alot of sense.

Needless to say, sexual orientation has ZILCH to do with nuture. If that were the case my entire family would be gay, not just me.

Dating a guy is like dating your best friend who wants to have sex all the time.

Hahahaha, I love you so much for saying that.

Dating a girl is like dating your best friend who wants to have sex all the time.

loves it!