A couple of important questions for people who were late bloomers.

You all obviously made the transition from not getting anywhere with the opposite sex, to being able to have relationships and/or casual sex.

1. What is it about you that changed which enabled you to be succsessful with the opposite sex?

2. Is there any difference between how you were when you hadn't bloomed and how you are now?

I wonder what causes the transition?

Thanks, this is much appreciated.

well if its late bloomer -its me 25 yr old and no relations

i'm dating and hangiong out with this girl i met off the net

so why- society i don;t want to be 30 and inexp and no dating and nothing. i see teens and ppl younger than me holding hands -couples-makes me feel defiently out and and i feel like i need to do it now or never.

ppl on the this msg board and other relationship forums have helped me out-very much

thank u

Yeah but you've not really bloomed though, you've just decided to meet a girl on the net because of sociatal pressures.

I was 31 and divorced and met a pretty 19 year old girl who was very affectionate. She made me feel attractive in a way that no other girl had done before. I had lots of girlfriends for a couple of years (didn't bother with casual sex) and then remarried. I'm not sure I'd want another realtionship if I was on my own again but don't have any doubts that i could if I wanted to.

Well, I would consider myself a late bllomer - at 30 I finally got a clue. But, how to go into it and keep it short? I'll give it a shot.

I was with my SO for 7 years. During that time I had a crush on my good friend as well, and also a crush on my ex. (Confusing, I know.) Finally got married to the SO and divorced 4 years later (at 30.) Afterwards I moved and was single for nearly two years. Determined not to be one of those guys who says "I can't date because I am so out of the game" I found a relationship forum on the 'net and read as much as I could. I didn't like the advice wholeheartedly because it was manipulative and did not focus on quality long term relationships.

One day I stumbled accross link removed and his "system." It was $100 but I bought it figuring I had nothing to lose. Believe it or not, it was some of the best advice I ever read. It pointed out in near perfect clarity every single stupid mistake I had made over the past 15 years. (You can get it cheap on eBay if you want, I recommend it highly, or read some of his articles at link removed and link removed. Pay attention to the male and female traits as they are important IMO.)

Then I finally started to have a clue. I found as many dating sites as I could and did a lot of research. Then I went out on the street and met women. Lots of women. In two years, however, I went on VERY few dates because most of them women I met did not meet my standards, and I refused to get into purely anything for sex.

Finally, I gave up on women. I figured they were all crazy, etc. (Actually most of the women I went on dates with had boyfriends and were trying to cheat, which really made me mad!)

Not 15 minutes after I officially "gave up" on women I ran into my future GF while she was working at Petsmart. We've been together for over two years now, and it's incredibly perfect. I am very glad I did not settle for any other women, nothing less than the best.

She and I both give relationship advice (I actually have a degree in psychology with an emphasis on hypnosis, mind control, and other persuasion techniques - basically why people act/react they way they do) and we help other folks with their issues. Over time I came up with my own theory on relationships and why they work or not, and am writing up a paper on it. I also put up my own web site link removed because it really ties into my theory. There are links to some of the other forums I visit there, as well as articles that speak to the most common issues I see with clients.

Now we work with folks to help the overcome initial problems and focus on being a quality guy and maintaining a long term relationship. Seems like no one else does that, go figure. I say "What good is it to know how to meet women if you can't keep them?" So there you have it!

Hope that helps.

Thanks for your post, I appreciate it, but it hasn't really answered what I need to know. You managed to become succsesful by reading dating sites.

I'm wondering what causes the transition in people who bloom naturally. I'm hoping it'll give me more insight into the incel condition, and hopefully it could help me and other incels.

Thanks for your post, I appreciate it, but it hasn't really answered what I need to know. You managed to become succsesful by reading dating sites.

 

I'm wondering what causes the transition in people who bloom naturally. I'm hoping it'll give me more insight into the incel condition, and hopefully it could help me and other incels.

My answer's simple - I grew up.

Thanks for your post, I appreciate it, but it hasn't really answered what I need to know. You managed to become succsesful by reading dating sites.

 

I'm wondering what causes the transition in people who bloom naturally. I'm hoping it'll give me more insight into the incel condition, and hopefully it could help me and other incels.

It was my failure at relationship after relationship, and finally a divorce (which I swore never to do; so a *major* failure in my eyes) and the self-determination to solve the problem ... that was what I was saying. I just got fed up with being a loser.

And I did a lot more than read - I went out and practiced, which was something I had never done before. I forced myself to grow.

"Necessity is the mother of all invention" comes to mind....

But you was succsesful in getting relationships in the first place. You was succsessful with women to a degree. So you're not really a late bloomer. I suppose people have different definitions of what a late bloomer is.

When I say late bloomer, I'm talking about someone who doesn't get anywhere with the opposite sex.

My answer's simple - I grew up.

That's interesting, maybe I and a lot of other incels could be emotionally immature. But then that wouldn't explain the fact that not one woman has ever shown any interest in me.

I guess I would be consider late bloomer, almost 19 and no relation yet. Only went on a few dates last year, but never got to relation level.

For me, I didn't have sex until I was 20, with absolutely no relationships until that point. So I'd consider myself a late bloomer. I think being out of high school helped me alot --- I was a geek and guys in my school seemed to want a girl who was thin. Out of high school guys see more in you than just looks. My first bf was my friend's cousin --- a sweet guy but I felt absolutely no attraction to him. I guess I just really wanted a bf at the time.

I don't think I actively did anything to attract the opposite sex when that transition happened for me, but perhaps I had a little more confidence in myself because I finally had made some friends. Maybe I became a little better looking, wore makeup,etc. I definitely started paying more attention to my looks and more guys were interested. But over the years I have grown more confident in my personality. However, I still have an extremely low self esteem and have made some bad choices where men are concerned.

I'm not too sure if being in school would have had anything to do with it, since there are a lot of late bloomers here in Britain that have left school (the leaving age over here is 16)

But you was succsesful in getting relationships in the first place.

Well, yeah. However, I *never* asked a single woman out, which probably foreshadowed why none of my relationships lasted for long.

You was succsessful with women to a degree. So you're not really a late bloomer. I suppose people have different definitions of what a late bloomer is.

 

When I say late bloomer, I'm talking about someone who doesn't get anywhere with the opposite sex.

Ah, gotcha. Yeah, different thing.

That's interesting, maybe I and a lot of other incels could be emotionally immature. But then that wouldn't explain the fact that not one woman has ever shown any interest in me.

Have you ever given them a reason to show interest in you? Besides, this is a common fallacy that I see in young men that think a woman needs to show overt interest in him first. Women typically show interest by standing close, looking once or twice, touching, making themselves available time-wise to be with a guy, etc. However, in my experience, the guy almost always needs to ask the woman on a date.

 

Their are signs, and if you're the same guy as in your avatar, you're a good looking guy. I would suggest you look into finding out why *you* have not shown any interest in women by asking them out on a date.

 

So many guys (like I did) expect a woman to drop into their lap. That just doesn't happen, and that was a major revelation for me.

 

You might want to read this article I wrote that sort of addresses that issue:

 

link removed

Well, yeah. However, I *never* asked a single woman out, which probably foreshadowed why none of my relationships lasted for long.

 

 

Ah, gotcha. Yeah, different thing.

 

 

Have you ever given them a reason to show interest in you? Besides, this is a common fallacy that I see in young men that think a woman needs to show overt interest in him first. Women typically show interest by standing close, looking once or twice, touching, making themselves available time-wise to be with a guy, etc. However, in my experience, the guy almost always needs to ask the woman on a date.

None of that has ever happened to me. What do you mean by giving them a reason to show interest in me?

Their are signs, and if you're the same guy as in your avatar, you're a good looking guy. I would suggest you look into finding out why *you* have not shown any interest in women by asking them out on a date.

Thanks dude. I suppose I haven't shown any interest in women by asking them out becuase I've never been in the right situation to do that and I don't know how to get into the right situation, I guess it's something that can only happen naturally. The thing is, women just aren't interested in me anyway.

So many guys (like I did) expect a woman to drop into their lap. That just doesn't happen, and that was a major revelation for me.

 

You might want to read this article I wrote that sort of addresses that issue:

 

link removed

Thanks for the link, I'll check it out.

Have you ever given them a reason to show interest in you? Besides, this is a common fallacy that I see in young men that think a woman needs to show overt interest in him first. Women typically show interest by standing close, looking once or twice, touching, making themselves available time-wise to be with a guy, etc. However, in my experience, the guy almost always needs to ask the woman on a date.

I'll back that up a million percent. Biggest problem I had was in high school was that I was ridiculously shy. Never ever had the nerve to approach a girl about a date even when I (looking back) KNEW that they had an interest. 7 years later and I STILL kick myself for not taking advantage of great opportunites,lol. Graduating high school and getting out into the real world is what changed me the most. But anyway, the above is great advice, listen to it.

I've never had any opportunities though, not even one. No girl has ever shown interest in me before. And I've been out in the real world since I was 16.

None of that has ever happened to me. What do you mean by giving them a reason to show interest in me?

I mean (1) show confidence and (2) skill and (3) ask themfor their phone number.

Thanks dude. I suppose I haven't shown any interest in women by asking them out becuase I've never been in the right situation to do that and I don't know how to get into the right situation, I guess it's something that can only happen naturally.

Nope. That's like saying I'm sitting on a sail boat and it won't go anywhere and I am just going to wait for someone to sail it for me. You need to learn how to pull the anchor up and raise the sails. No one will do it for you...

The thing is, women just aren't interested in me anyway.

Baloney. Absolute crap. I bet you that on a daily basis at least one average to attractive woman checks you out and thinks you're good looking. But ... women don't approach men, so YOU have to look for them and learn how to approach them.

And there are plenty of opportunities. Every woman every where. Have you *ever* bought *anything* from *anywhere* and the cashier was female? That was an opportunity. Female waitress? There you go. Woman in line next to you, or even 5 places back in line? Another one. Woman standing on a street corner waiting for the light? In the elevator? Waiting for a bus or train? At a bar next to you, or accross the bar. In the car next to you at the light. I mean ... EVERYWHERE. Now if I can - and have - meet women at every one of the examples above, what makes you different that you can't? Nothing but (1) practice and (2) confidence. There is absolutely NO reason why you can't do the exact same thing I do, or other guys do, or some variation.

It just takes (a) learning (b) practice © mistakes (d) repetition.

Thanks for the link, I'll check it out.

Here's another one you should read, it helped me a lot:

link removed

And a list of links from my site that you may find helpful!

link removed

Not all of them have all good advice, so read with some skepticism! Some are full of crap, so *think* about what you read. Then try it.

So your assignement today? Go buy something, get in line with a female cashier, and get her to laugh. If you fail, you can always say "Okay, so I guess I better return that book I bought on 'How to pick up on cashiers at [store name]." If anything, THAT will get a laugh.

Report back later?

I mean (1) show confidence and (2) skill and (3) ask themfor their phone number.

What do you mean by skill?

Nope. That's like saying I'm sitting on a sail boat and it won't go anywhere and I am just going to wait for someone to sail it for me. You need to learn how to pull the anchor up and raise the sails. No one will do it for you...

So how do I do it then? I don't really think these are the sort of things that can be learnt, they need to come naturally, and maybe this would and I would have the instinct for it if I was very socially confident.

Baloney. Absolute crap. I bet you that on a daily basis at least one average to attractive woman checks you out and thinks you're good looking. But ... women don't approach men, so YOU have to look for them and learn how to approach them....

Yes, women do approach men, trust me, they just don't do it as much as men. If I've never been hit on once in the whole of my life then obviously something is seriously wrong. The only kind of responces that I've got from women as far as wether they're interested in me or not are very negative.

There is something about me which stops women being attracted to me, I think it could be something biological like maybe I don't produce pheremones or my chemicals are wrong or something.

And there are plenty of opportunities. Every woman every where. Have you *ever* bought *anything* from *anywhere* and the cashier was female? That was an opportunity. Female waitress? There you go. Woman in line next to you, or even 5 places back in line? Another one. Woman standing on a street corner waiting for the light? In the elevator? Waiting for a bus or train? At a bar next to you, or accross the bar. In the car next to you at the light. I mean ... EVERYWHERE. Now if I can - and have - meet women at every one of the examples above, what makes you different that you can't? Nothing but (1) practice and (2) confidence. There is absolutely NO reason why you can't do the exact same thing I do, or other guys do, or some variation.

So you expect me to walk straight up to women that I've never seen before and ask them out? I'd just look like a weirdo, it wouldn't get me anywhere.

Anyway, when I say opportunities I mean REAL ones, like a woman acting like she's interested.

It just takes (a) learning (b) practice © mistakes (d) repetition.

 

 

Here's another one you should read, it helped me a lot:

 

link removed

 

And a list of links from my site that you may find helpful!

 

link removed

 

Not all of them have all good advice, so read with some skepticism! Some are full of crap, so *think* about what you read. Then try it.

Thanks again for the lists, I'm willing to try and learn, but what I don't get is that the majority of the population doesn't have to learn, they don't need to pick up a book on how to attract someone. So, I wonder why I do?

So your assignement today? Go buy something, get in line with a female cashier, and get her to laugh. If you fail, you can always say "Okay, so I guess I better return that book I bought on 'How to pick up on cashiers at [store name]." If anything, THAT will get a laugh.

 

Report back later?

 

 

 

How would I get her to laugh? I wouldn't really want to give out the picking up cashiers line, that'd sound a little weird.

 

Anyway, doing that sort of stuff isn't exactly easy when you have SA.

 

But what if I did make her laugh, then what? How would we go from that to her being my girlfriend or casual sex partner?

Ross, I'm no guy, but what comes accross in your posts is it just seems a lack of confidence and comfort with yourself as a person. And of course, the results of that only further propagate you feeling that way. It's a vicious cycle!

Of course appearance is not everything, but I will say in your picture you seem very cute, and I can detect that if you turned that smile up a notch, a very warm inviting face as well. I guarantee there have been girls whom have been interested in you, even if you did not recognize it, and will guarantee there are girls whom thought you were cute. However, they did not approach you either due to lack of confidence themselves, or being a bit more traditional.

I think it's your confidence that gets you right now. I don't think you have to resort to books to do it, but I do think you need to develop your sense of self, and sense of confidence.

If you find yourself getting rejected, maybe you need to look more at your approach (ie do you ask them out early on to show interest? Are you confident, or do you feel defeated before you even try thus giving off signals of being insecure and unconfident?), as well as the woman you ARE approaching.

 

 

 

So you expect me to walk straight up to women that I've never seen before and ask them out? I'd just look like a weirdo, it wouldn't get me anywhere.

 

Anyway, when I say opportunities I mean REAL ones, like a woman acting like she's interested.

 

 

 

How would I get her to laugh? I wouldn't really want to give out the picking up cashiers line, that'd sound a little weird.

 

 

But what if I did make her laugh, then what? How would we go from that to her being my girlfriend or casual sex partner?

I don't think you're approaching this from the right standpoint. Its clear that you lack a bit less confidence than you need, which is okay, its just a matter of gaining it. Nobody expects you to walk up to a strange woman and ask them out right then and there. But that cashier business is GOLD. You don't think it would be a confidence boost to walk up to a person you've never met and make her laugh and smile? THAT kind of thing generates interest. You can't go from 0-100 just like that. But if you start doing what Poco suggests, that will give you the confidence you seek. Women can pick up on confidence, just through your body language. If you really truly FEEL confident your body language will reflect that. Even if you don't score right off the bat, just try making women laugh. Anyone can do it, and you'll be amazed at what it will do for your self esteem.

One tip I picked up from a girl is that she can detect the difference between a boy who wants a girlfriend and one that wants to date a girl because he finds something special in her. Talk to her and find out the really important thaings like her favourite planet and football club. Really impress her by saying you know this really cool website where this bloke put pictures of the sun, moon and planets on. Google on "Philip Pugh's Astronomy".

Seriously, I wouldn't go for planets or football clubs at first (unless she expresses an interest!!!) but music, films and TV shows are a good start!

What do you mean by skill?

I mean ... skill! Everything you do is based on skill. How fast you type on your computer keyboard is a skill. If you took a class on touch-typing, or had been using computers for a long time, your skill at typing will be better than that of someone who has never typed before. I can type 100 words per minute because I have developed that skill. However, when I was in 9th grade, I couldn't type to save my life. What changed? Practice, skill, learning from others.

The ability to be social is a SKILL that you LEARN from other people.

So how do I do it then? I don't really think these are the sort of things that can be learnt, they need to come naturally, and maybe this would and I would have the instinct for it if I was very socially confident.

Of course you don't think these these can be learned. You're THINKING to much, and making excuses for your lack of confidence. Everything you are doing right now is simply reinforcing your lack of confidence and "I can't do this" mindset. Again, if you tell yourself you can't type 100 words per minute, you'll never even try. But there is nothing stopping you from doing it but yourself. I can't make you type 100 words per minute, because I can't control your fingers. However, unless you have some actual physical problem with your hands, there is no reason why you can't do it. Just like any number of atheletes, it takes learning, practice, lots of mistakes, and determination.

Instinct. Such a funny choice of words. What does instinct mean to you? If you had NO training from your parents you would not be able to speak, you'd run around naked, you'd eat poison berries, you wouldn't cook your food, etc. Your instincts have nothing to do with talking to women and asking them out. That is something you have to learn.

Yes, women do approach men, trust me, they just don't do it as much as men.

As mentioned, women don't hit on men. At least not nearly as often as men are *supposed* to hit on women.

If I've never been hit on once in the whole of my life then obviously something is seriously wrong.

Yeah, you HAVE been hit on but you're too blind to notice it. Life is all about recognizing opportunies and taking advantage of them. Example: There is an empty building accross the street from where I work. That is an opportunity for a business person to come and buy it and turn it into a restaurant. But when 99.9999% of the people walking by see it, they just see an empty building. So when a woman is looking at you, that is an opportunity. However, it is obvious that 99.9999% of the time you have not recognized it nor have you had the social skills to go introduce yourself, flirt, make small talk, determine if she is a cool person, and if so ask for her number. It has nothing to do with HER, it has everything to do with YOU.

A car parked in the street is nothing to you, but a paycheck (opportunity) to a car thief. This forum is a lot of important words and concepts, but unless you understand the opportunity and the information being presented here it's worthless. If you can't read between the lines, it's useless.

The only kind of responces that I've got from women as far as wether they're interested in me or not are very negative.

So they are telling you that *you* have done something wrong. And it sounds like you've been doing something wrong for 30 years, just like I had been doing something wrong for 30 years. No one, it seems, will teach you social skills. Everyone is expected to just "get it." Well, I think that's a bunch of crap which is why I try to point out that you can learn how to do whatever you want. Social skills are just another form of communication, just like learning Spanish or French. Anyone can do it, with enough practice and a good teacher. You can learn from a book, from the internet, what, but unless you get out there and practice on real people - and get some funny looks when you accidentally say "My flower ate my cat" - AND someone corrects you - you'll never progress.

There is something about me which stops women being attracted to me, I think it could be something biological like maybe I don't produce pheremones or my chemicals are wrong or something.

[sarcasm]Oh, so it's a physical problem over which you have no control.[/sarcasm] So long as you keep making excuses as to why there is something wrong with you, nothing will improve. You may as well say "I can't learn to ride a bike because there is something biologically wrong with me." That makes absolutely no sense.

You're talking to us, right? You seem pretty normal to me. So can you make a joke? Tell me a joke. If you don't know one, go find one! Make me laugh. Tell me a stupid story about something crazy you did once. Hey, I burned my neighbors garage down when I was in 3rd grade. About 2 years ago I saw that same neighbor, and he said "You were my real life Dennis the Menace."

So you obviously lack confidence talking to women *because* you recognize that you do not have the skills to do so properly. You can talk to guys, right? It's because you have the skills to do so. What you need to do is find a guy who knows how to talk to women and ask him to SHOW you how it's done, get him to FORCE you to try new things, and then LEARN from your mistakes. You ARE going to say stupid stuff to women. Hey, I do sometimes too! That's just how it goes. No big deal! We're human and we make mistakes. But you have to stop projecting the personality of "no confidence child" to women by practicing and getting some confidence.

How do you do that? By being fun to be with. Not being serious. Joking around. Treating folks like someone you know. Not paying for other people. Having a hobby or passion you put before anyone else and meeting someone who shares that. Stuff like that.

So you expect me to walk straight up to women that I've never seen before and ask them out? I'd just look like a weirdo, it wouldn't get me anywhere.

GOD NO!

 

I expect you to walk up to a woman and say "Hi." Stand up tall. Look her in the eye. Smile, but not too much! Then ask her a question. Something simple, just for practice. "Hey, where did you get those great boots?" No matter what she says, make a joke. Something like "Do you think they have them in my size?" Smile. Look at her. See if she gets the joke. If she looks weird, then tell her "You didn't get the joke, did you?" Then tell her you were thinking of getting something for your sister or friends sister, that's all. Then thank her and walk away.

 

But if she does laugh, and you do get into a conversation with her, make small talk for a minute. "Hey, you live around here?" "Really? Well I'm looking for some new and cool place to get lunch/dinner - what's a great spot?" If she tells you some fast food joint, you tell her "Oh please, I don't want dog food! Tell me some place GOOD! Don't you know of any good places?" Talk JUST LIKE YOU WOULD WITH YOUR FRIENDS. Joke a little. Have some fun. Smile. Relax. Look at her in her eyes, don't look around. Keep your hands out of your pockets. Don't pick your nose. If she seems cool, tell her! "Hey, you seem like you might be a normal person ... are you?" If she says yes, then say "Hey, give me your phone number and I'll call you." Don't ASK for her number, TELL her to give it to you. Just like it's nothing. "Hey, I don't like Italian, so that's out. Give me your number and I'll call you. Hey, what time is it?" It's nothing. It's not a big deal. If she says "Why" or gives you ANY excuse, just ramp it up. "Do you have electricity?" She'll say "Of course!" then say "So you've got to have a phone! Give me your number, I'm not nuts like that last guy you have your number to."

 

If you get her number, you must call her only ONCE and only after 4-5 days. Go read my article on that for complete details.

 

Anyway, when I say opportunities I mean REAL ones, like a woman acting like she's interested.

So you tell me, what IS a woman acting like she is interested. Tell me RIGHT NOW the last time you saw a woman who acted like she was interested.

 

I can tell you the last time. It was yesterday while Dave and I were standing in line to get a sandwhich. A woman in line looked at me twice.

 

The day before that I was walking up to the corner as two women were walking accross the crosswalk to my right (walking to the left.) They went in front of me, and I turned left and was now about 3 feet behind them. I noticed one of the women looking in the reflection of the glass windows. When I got to the door of my office, I was watching her in the reflection of the doors as I was walking away, and she AGAIN looked back - this time directly at me.

 

Both of those woman were showing signs of interest. Would you have caught that? Highly unlikely. I doubt you even consider that a sign of interest. You have to understand that women don't want to be labelled as "promiscuous" or as a s-l-u-t by hitting on a guy. They have a reputation to uphold. If a woman went up to every guy she thought was attractive, other people would label her as "easy" or a s-l-u-t and that is about the last thing she wants. So you - YOU - have to be the one who initiates contact. But you have to lift your head up and open your eyes first.

 

Thanks again for the lists, I'm willing to try and learn, but what I don't get is that the majority of the population doesn't have to learn, they don't need to pick up a book on how to attract someone. So, I wonder why I do?

Ha! That's the craziest thing I have ever heard. You go ask some guy if he can ask a woman out, and I'll bet you find that over 75% of guys can't do it. Why is the divorce rate 50% and why do the majority of divorces get initiated by women? Because most men think like you do - that you should just "know" how to be. It's crazy, it's wrong, and it's the root of most relationship problems in my opinion.

 

Here's a great article someone just posted on my site:

 

link removed

 

It is titled "Are husbands to blame for their wives becoming fat?" It's written by a Rabbi, but it's absolutely dead on in my opinion. I have always felt that a woman gains weight because of the lack of affection and attraction from her male partner. Yes, it's YOUR fault in my opinion. Here's a snippet:

 

Which leads me to the following controversial, yet, in my opinion, unassailable conclusion: When wives put on a lot of weight, it is almost always the fault of an inattentive or distracted husband. When their looks no longer mean anything to them, it's because they're married to someone who they don't think would notice anyway.

 

Women love being attractive. Sure, there are exceptions to the rule, like body-building she-men or tomboys for whom overalls and armpit odor is heavenly. But, by and large, even brainy career women who wish to be appreciated for their minds rather than their bodies still wish to be physically desirable. What woman doesn't want to be regarded as beautiful? How much more so a married woman who revels in her husband's attention. And when a wife suddenly starts growing a beard and doesn't go to a beautician, or puts on an extra load and doesn't run to the dietician, she is behaving unnaturally and we have to ask why.

 

The blame lies with her husband who long ago stopped noticing her when she did get dressed up, so she concludes: "Why bother? With all the responsibilities I have with the kids, my job and running the home, why put time into my appearance when he never looks anyway."

The article is long, but VERY well written and VERY insightful. I would *strongly* recommend you read it because it points out that your behaviors will affect other people.

 

How would I get her to laugh?

Say something funny. As mentioned, take an improv class. I've never taken a class, but I am often accused of being a professional stand up comic. I make people laugh by saying stuff that is entertaining. Usually, I'm picking on them, believe it or not, just like you would pick on a bratty nine-year-old sister.

 

I wouldn't really want to give out the picking up cashiers line, that'd sound a little weird.

To YOU it sounds weird. Because you've never used it. In fact, it's all in the delivery. If you said haha. I guess I should return that book on picking up cashiers at line at Best buy! as opposed to saying it like Ha! Well, I guess I'd better return that 'How to pick up cashiers at Best Buy' book! which do you think is going to work? If you act meek, scared, or like a big baby, SURE it won't work! So speak loud, clearly, and with motive. Be adult, be mature, be bold! Who cares if she gives you a dirty look? If she does, she's an idiot who you don't want to know anyway. But if she laughs, calls you a "kidder" or a "joker" then you will realize that some people have a sense of humor and some don't.

 

Heck, a few weeks ago I was out with a friend and I tried to engage a woman. She TOTALLY and COMPLETELY blew me off in the most rude way I'd ever seen. My friend was blown away. Then a few minutes later I tried again to strike up a conversation and I got blown off even harder! Wow! What did that mean? It meant that these two women were completely socially retarded, rude, nasty, and I would want nothing to do with them. And, thank goodness they were so obvious that I did not waste one minute trying to be nice to them! They instantly disqualified themselves. Thanks!

 

Anyway, doing that sort of stuff isn't exactly easy when you have SA.

SA? Syndrome of Abbrieviation? If you've got a body and a brain, you can do it too.

 

But what if I did make her laugh, then what? How would we go from that to her being my girlfriend or casual sex partner?

You wouldn't! Talk to her for a minute, and see if she can carry on a conversation and IF she is cool. If she is, and you think there is something there ... tell her to give you her number! As mentioned, above, go read the article on my site. You wait a week, call her, make a coffee date, and talk to her. After you blow a few dates and realize what you did or said that was wrong, you'll get better.

 

But you have to start somewhere.

 

So ... go to the store and get me a soda. Talk to the cashier. Tell her you are buying a soda for some jerk and if she could shake it up that would be great. Heck, drop it on the floor, please. Whatever. It doesn't matter. But, you MUST say more than just "Hi, I'll have a soda." Start small. Start with "Hey, what's a great place to get lunch around here?" When she says some crappy place, BUST her on it. Be all like "What? That place? No, I want some place GOOD. Where do YOU go for lunch? Really? What's something good on the menu? Will I like it? You know, if I don't like it I might just have to come back again and hassle you some more. You don't want that, do you? No, so give me a GOOD recommendation. Ask your co-worker, I don't care!"

 

Have some fun with it. Treat her like someone you have known for years.

 

You gotta start somewhere. Start small. Go from there.

It makes me mad that people think girls have to be "chatted up". I've been hit on by girls, so it does happen but the best of all is where you start talking normally to someone and you both decide that you have to see each other again and arrange where and when. It's like a "merging of equals" and doesn't need any approach or tactics. It just works.

Yes, I agree, but it happens very rarely, and if he doesn't recognize she is hitting on him, or even talk to her, nothing's going to come of it.

For Ross, here, he needs a little push in the right direction. He's been doing what you are saying for, what, 20+ years now with no results, so telling him to keep doing the same thing is crazy, in my humble opinion.

It works for some folks, not for everyone.

He's been doing what you are saying for, what, 20+ years now with no results, so telling him to keep doing the same thing is crazy, in my humble opinion.

definition of crazy: doing the same thing over and over and expecting different results.

As a member of the large-breasted ovarian carryin' species I'll throw in my 2cents...one of the things I find least attractive in a man is self-pity. While you may not have stellar confidence in yourself yet, at the very least throw out the negative nobody-wants-me attitude. You had the confidence to post your picture here--that says something to me. I think you are quite attractive and agree with RayKay- turn up the smile! While I still haven't decided what I think of PocoDiablo's advice in general (nothing personal, dear) he's dead-on with this one.

It is just a fact of life that social skills come naturally to some and others have the agony of learning them. If you REALLY don't have any it may be possible a person has a physiological reason behind it like Autism or Asperger's Syndrome but I seriously doubt that is the case with you Ross. At any rate, it sounds to me like you have identified the problem, that you need to LEARN social skills and poco here is giving you lessons for free.

One more *minor detail*: you keep posting about wanting casual sex- that is not attractive in any way, shape or form (to me) and is an instant turn-off. It's coming accross as a whiny, why-won't-someone- * * * *-me rant- if that's what you really want I'm sure there's a prostitute somewhere that can oblige.

Figure out if you really don't have any social skills or if you just have anxiety about social skills and go from there.