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(It's all her fault) At least I think so, I just don't know what to do.

 

I've been married 19 yrs, three kids, good career and all that goes with it. My marriage is not what I what I want it to be. My wife has a terrible temper that goes into rage. It comes out of nowhere, sometimes the only crime I commit to set it off is turning the doorknob and walking in the door.

 

Our sex life has always been reliable and stable. That means something. Soulmate no. The differences build up over the years. Yet, we have lived so much together, have these great kids, a life/home we built from scratch with each other. She acts like she is indifferent to it and it just isn't enough. I really don't think anything would be enough for her. I don't think it is me or us, but her. She was raised very poor, alcoholic father, abnormal childhood. And she hasn't been able to break out of it.

 

She goes off into this terrible! anger, pushes me until I am forced to say something(she doesn't allow me to walk away), and then holds even the slightest negative comment, that I am forced to utter, dear in her heart.

 

I feel like, no you are not what I really want in a wife, but you are all I got. The alternative is messy, long divorce, obviously hurtful to children and many around us, and very $costly$ to me. Many people look up to the life we live, we are both community leaders. We share with others. We have both been faithful to each other.

 

I am trying, it is hard work. To let the blows fall off me and try to forgive on a regular basis. There are a few more twists to the plot, but I'll start here.

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Emotionally abusive is bad enough - is she also physically abusive?

 

And, the obvious question - have you tried or suggested counselling?

 

One thing that might make her realise what she is doing is to try to tape her when she is ranting at you. At some point when she is calm and more rational let her listen to herself. She may be shocked into some self-awareness.

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i know ur going to look at me and say "shes only 18 she doesnt know anything" but maybe your wife feels under appreachated (sp) does she work full time, and look after the kids... are the kids still young enough to need full time care????

 

maybe she craves some attention or just some help...

 

i know thats how my mum is... she worked and looked after us kids, and only wanted my dad to say something nice, or just help out pm me if u want to talk more....

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Tis the season Hardcharger. The holidays, from my point of view as the OFFICIAL MEMORY MAKER.... are a PIA. LOL. Its this time of year that I am trying to clean the house top to bottom. I make the lists like SANTA CLAUS.. and have to brave the elements, the crabby shoppers and crowd, traffic... to bring back my stash and wrap it all nice. And the cooking and baking... and trying to make sure that I don't forget anyone. Always have to have gifts for wayfayers.. just in case. Then there are the Christmas cards..and the guests and on and on and on.... makes for a STRESSFUL time. And who gets the whip??? well that would be the nearest and dearest ones.

 

You've put up this long... you'll make it.

 

I've talked to you before... regarding $ vs. Happiness. It sounds as if you are weighing $$, Public Persona and Standing.. Vs. Happiness. Well... thats the choice YOU make. YOU do not intend to walk. Ahhhh but can you be so sure you won't find yourself being LEFT behind???? NOPE. You can't she's unhappy. Neither one of you can be very happy. Ever thought about bringing it to the table and talking about it?? dare I say...ummmmm counseling? Or.. are you just gonna ride out the storms hoping not to get a direct HIT.

 

You have 2 friends who don't want to work on it. And they've chosen to ... ummm suplement their happiness with extra curricular activites. There but for the grace of God go you.

 

Problems in your business do not get resolved on their own do they? Problems get resolved by.. naming it... and good problem solving skills. They do not go away on their own... the only grow bigger and more unmanagable. You are trying to save your shirt by keeping MUMS the word. And in the end... You still very well may lose your shirt anyway. Why not try to SAVE a mediocre marriage and make something of it.... instead of letting it drift aimlessly into the abyss.

 

It is NOT all her fault. Takes two to tango. You are in this dance together...thats why they call it a marriage. Where one goes..the other follows. Yeah I know... sucks. (for lack of a better term..LOL). Take the bull by the horns.... and problem solve. Counseling... for her.. for you.. for both. It worth a shot.

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I see what you are saying about the "dance". But here's the thing. IF you accept that type of treatment... and do nothing to change it. Do not put any consequences to their behavior... you are IN THE DANCE.

 

I did this. I accepted his verbal abuse, I made excuses like Hardcharger is doing.. "she's conditioned to it. Her dad was an alchoholic. Its a learned behavior"... " I rationalized it to death too. He grew up that way. He's only really ANGRY when he drinks. If I tip toe and avoid this subject or that subject I can difuse the situation. I made all the excuses for him. The consequences??? what possible consequences can you give them??? They throw these adult TANTRUMS and its not like a two year old that you can put them in the corner or take away their TV.

 

I know what you are saying. AYE. I'd say that it was "ALL" my husbands fault. But you see...I reacted to it. I stayed in the ring. I allowed it. For the betterment of the marriage... for sickness and in health.. blah blah blah. I made a commitment.. a covenant in the eyes of god.. and I figured I had to STAY. AYE.... I went my rounds with counseling. Depression. And constant cycling. But as long as I stayed on that wheel and cycle with him... NOTHING was going to change. And its a CHOICE. By choosing to participate...and stay.. and praying,hoping for a miracle to happen. You are dancing that Tango right with them. You're the focal point.

 

I did NOT define the boundaries. My boundaries. And THAT was my fault. AYE... maybe those boundaries are up...but I kept letting him push the border... until I took BACK MY CONTROL and did not allow him to bully and abuse me anymore. Until I refused to participate in the dance.

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Thats the thing Montelisa. If you keep doing what you've been doing... you're going to keep getting what you always got. Hardcharger, love his lifestyle. Hardcharger loves the PICTURE of what he has that the outside world see's.

 

If he doesn't want to rock the boat and bust a move. Then sit back... and exist. Keep at it. Change doesn't occur on its own.

 

He's not going to change her. He's NOT going to be able to STOP her verbal abuse. Their relationship is a long one and they've devloped a push/pull habit. For it to end... one of them has to bust a move.

 

He's conscience. He see's it happening... because its happening to him. He's voicing it.. He's UNHAPPY and UNFUFILLED. He's got the perfect life... and is the envy of his friends and neighbors. But whats he got MONTELISA.

 

Been there too. Been the ENVY of my friends and neighbors. Because I was the one who put the GLOSS on it. And swept it under the rug.

 

Personally... No, I wouldn't stay in an abusive relationship. Or a relationship where I felt unloved and second rate. BUT I did it. I did it until my cup runneth over. Until I made the decision to give up the gold. LOL. And now I'm a statistic like 50% of the rest of the country. But much happier for it. Much much happier for it.

 

I have a friend... who struggled with the decision at age 45. And guess what... she decided it was too late for her. She decided to keep status quo..and keep at it. Was it the right decision?? maybe, for her... she decided it was worth it. And there was NOTHING better out there for her. She's convinced herself that "ALL" men are the same. And she's done.

 

IF the divorce rate is 50% in this country. And if many people decide to stick through it because of family,kids, financial reasons what have you.. then how many couples are actually.. HAPPILY MARRIED?

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>is she also physically abusive?

thank god no, we don't touch each other in her rages

 

>have you tried or suggested counselling?

- I-we went to counseling 14 yrs ago, I started it, the counselor said, simple, it was all my fault because I went fishing so much, left her, and she resented it. Haven't fished for years, I have hobbies, but basically am a stay at home. Things haven't changed.

I ended up going to a female counselor on two separate occasions, quietly, over the past 8 years, just trying to vent and figure things out.

 

>One thing that might make her realise what she is doing is to try to tape her when she is ranting at you...She may be shocked into some self-awareness

- ah ha. About 2 yrs ago, I started a diary of all her rages and the one-sided bull she puts me through. I told her I had it. Somehow that scared her and "wised her up", for a time. Maybe she thought I would bring it out in a divorce. And I continue that diary to this day. It is a nice threat, because memory wanes, but she would be totally embarrassed if I brought this all out and exposed this to whomever. It's a potent weapon. Next time she goes off, I think I'll remind her of what I have. I haven't brought it up in sometime.

 

>but maybe your wife feels under appreachated (sp) does she work full time...or just help out

- no, your smart for 18. Oh god does she every feel underappreciated and unloved. And there seems to be very little I can do about it. I don't think she knew the feeling of being loved as a little girl, how could she, and I am living with the consequences to this day...I do help out, clean dishwasher, straighten up, vacuum her car...I try to be nice.

 

>Problems in your business do not get resolved on their own do they? - Problems get resolved by.. naming it... and good problem solving skills.

- YES! And that is what I'm doing right here, brining it all in focus.

 

>It is NOT all her fault. Takes two to tango. You are in this dance together...thats why they call it a marriage

- I believe that in a long term marriage, we both affect each other in incomprehendable ways. I could get in another marriage, and I'd be the bad guy. Then there is what my dad always said. "life balances out". I have a great life with so much, I can't expect it to be all good! God puts something on my platter to keep me humble.

 

The bottom line to alot of this is she is a decent homemaker and a very good sex partner, and even though she has painted me as a villain to my kid, she is a devoted mother and it shows in my kids, they are A1.

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I think that it is just as bad when a woman is abusive, including verbally or emotionally, as when a man is the abuser.

 

And the advice generally given to women applies as well. It is rare that a woman who is abused in this way is told "it's not all his fault. Takes two to tango" or "maybe he feels under-appreciated". Usually women are given sympathy and understanding and advised to get out of the marriage.

 

It's your decision whether or not you stay in the marriage - but you certainly have my sympathy and understanding. There is no excuse for this kind of abuse from a partner - male or female. I hope that you are able to resolve it and regain some happiness in this, or a subsequent, non-abusive, relationship. Good luck.

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>she decided it was worth it. And there was NOTHING better out there for her. She's convinced herself that "ALL" men are the same. And she's done.

 

That's part of my problem. I see how my mother abused my father for all his life. Our family all watch her constant verbal abuse and attacks, then when he says a peep or please stop, she accuses him of yelling at him. Now she has him on Zoloft, when he is the most placid, gentle man I've ever seen. And she never stops condemning, judging, and abusing. I am following in his footsteps.

 

 

I guess I am just frustrated. I ask my wife. Why don't we just try to start today and be civil and respectful towards each other. Why have each other and a good life, we are compatible "enough". Why don't we just decide to try to live happily ever after one day at a time and enjoy life. That is what I do for my own life.

 

Realize, she is the one that threatens divorce. She loves to needle and torture me, because she knows I don't want that. I will do everything to avoid it. My life could be much worse divorced. She gets the bulk of the $$$, I keep paying alimony and child support. She wouldn't want the house, but it's too big for me, and some babe wouldn't be happy here, SHE is everywhere. I love living in this place.

 

I think I'd be helpless without a woman. I don't cook, never have run the washer in 20 yrs. Although I am a good picker-up/kitchen cleaner man. And I would not tolerate living without a regular sex life, not yet.

 

I have a bunch of gals that work for me, I'm with them everyday and see how they treat their husbands, they seem to respect them. I KNOW they don't dish out what I get everyday. Of course, I'm the guy with everything else, guess dad was right, life balances out.

 

Maybe it seems like I won't make the changes needed. I really don't know what to do. I'm stuck between a rock and very hard, pointy place. This board is great, I can't believe the right on advice your folks give, and after trolling around and throwing out a few suggestions of my own, I thought I would lay out my own life. - The Hardcharger - I got that nickname from someone on another board, who commented on my approach to "telling it like it is". I love it, because I am w/o doubt a hardcharger in life!

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There are a number of reasons for a person to go bonkers at midlife, and no, I don't mean the much-touted crisis. Menopause is an issue for some women, for others it's no biggie. Routine chores and rituals become tedious and escape enters our thoughts. All the little things that young love doesn't see become huge reminders of the passage of time. By midlife we're not the same as when we were young. Of course you know that.

 

One common theme among troubled marriages is the outward appearance of happiness. The house, cars, status income and all the other stuff become a comfortable substitute for love and meaning.

 

I'd suggest counseling as well, if only as a last resort. If you just can't resolve anything, a trial separation might give you both some perspective. It's hard to see the forest for the trees when you're in a bad situation.

The last line of your post tells a tale. You're on a long journey, one way or the other.

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Honey, if she knows you aren't going anywhere then she's got you by the ***** and she is not letting go. Of course she is going to threaten you with divorce, she knows it kills you to even think about it. She's controlling you. That is no way to live. Ya know, nothing will change for you until you have had enough... maybe you haven't had enough yet.

 

You said you went to counseling...she should have gone too. She has alot of rage that she needs to work out. Also, it sounds like she resents you and is making you "pay" everyday....maybe for those days you went fishing and left her behind, who knows? She is not one to let things go...she has a long memory huh?

 

I've said this before : a golden cage is still a cage afterall.

 

Is the price you are paying now worth it? You have the power to change things, if you really want to bad enough.

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You need to decide what you want.

 

What I am seeing is that on the one hand you do not like this emotional abuse, and feel that perhaps you are conditioned by your own background to accept it. But it makes you unhappy to the point of considering ending the marriage.

 

And on the other hand I'm sereing a lot of pragmatic reasons why you're reluctant to end the marriage ... financial (which I don't really understand, because alimony is pretty much gone, and child support depends on custodial arrangements, which wouldn't necessarily go to your wife), personal (the need to take care of yourself), sexual (the fear of being sexually alone).

 

So what I see is a weighing going on between how bad the marriage makes you feel, on the one hand, and how afraid you are of the things that would happen in a divorce. So, you kind of need to think more about what you really want for your future.

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I think you need to talk to her. Theres a few books you might want to check out.. Dance of Intimacy. And the other is .. The dance of Anger.

by the same author can't remember right now who it was. Amazon it.. you'll find them.

 

Dealing with an Angry person. Is tough. One of the things you may try is to think about how you typically react when she goes off. And change it up. You may want to just put your hands up. Look her in the eye.. and firmly tell her that.. you DO NOT want to talk to her right now. TIME OUT. When she has cooled off and can talk to you in a civil manner, you will continue the discussion.

 

But you'll need to bust a move somewhere Hardcharger. The road you are on is a bumpy one.. and you are just headed for more of the same, if you continue on. And one day you'll wake up and your worst fear will be there. And by then... it will have to late to try to save this run away freight train.

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I wanted to read your thread, Hardcharger, after seeing parallels between our situations in your responses to me on another thread.

 

One apparent difference is the level of concern over what those in the community will think. That may be related to the fact that we are relatively new to the town. Besides, it's not all that unusual for "community leaders" to go through divorce.

 

I hate to give up the good family times myself. I pretty much like my wife's family and have enjoyed the many family get togethers over the years. I don't know how old your children are, but mine are getting to the age when I know things will be changing anyway, divorce or no divorce.

 

I'm also a "stay at home" husband/dad. (By "stay at home" I mean in my non-working hours.) No real hobbies or close friends. My wife is my best friend other than my kids, so it really sucks when our relationship isn't going well. Thank God for my job!

 

I have also made the decision that I must address the situation. My wife and I talked yesterday about counseling. I think I only got her to agree to give it an honest try under the threat of divorce. She seemed about ready to go through with divorce rather than go to counseling, but seemed to think better of it.

 

I would be surprised if she got MORE than half of everything. She may get half, plus child support and alimony, but would that really be so bad? It sounds like you have significant marital assets. How tough would it be financially?

 

My wife and I also have significant assets to split, plus I'm sure I would be paying child support and alimony; however, freedom seems more attractive to me than feeling wealthy and trapped.

 

I also differ on the need for a woman in my life. I'm not opposed to the idea of dating post divorce, but I also like the idea of getting to know myself better and practicing freedom for awhile. It's hard for me to imagine that a community leader such as yourself couldn't figure out how to cook, clean, and do laundry for himself.

 

I don't mean to sound like I'm promoting divorce for you, but you may need a plan B if your wife refuses counseling or if she is unwilling to make changes. As Mun said above, she knows the idea of divorce scares you and she has you by the *****. There is little motivation for her to change.

 

On the other hand, maybe she WANTS to change but doesn't know how. Perhaps you can help motivate her by saying that YOU need couples counseling.

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P.S. -- I also disagree with the idea that it's "all her fault". Each of us has complete responsibility for our responses to others (response-ability). You may feel that your wife's behavior is unacceptable, yet you have been "accepting" it for years. You may not realize just how much you have been facilitating her behavior by putting up with it.

 

Believe me, I realize how complicated it may be to get out of a bad situation, especially when children are involved. But the key is not whether or not your wife will "get better" -- it is what YOU choose to do.

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What you need to try is stop thinking so much about me me me me and start thinking more about her. Put yourself in her shoes. Try it! It is called fair

 

I think the reason he is thinking about himself is probably because of this extract from his first post:

 

My wife has a terrible temper that goes into rage. It comes out of nowhere, sometimes the only crime I commit to set it off is turning the doorknob and walking in the door.

 

This is called abuse - it is not physical abuse but it is emotional and psychological abuse and if it were being perpetrated by a male on a female I doubt that anyone would be advising her to think more about him; it is much more likely that people would be telling her that the fair thing to do would be to leave.

 

Perhaps if you were to put yourself in his shoes and suffer this sort of behaviour from a spouse you might be a little more sympathetic.

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A few days ago she gave me the best sex a man could want! That makes up for a lot! So call me a pigman, ha ha, I forgot about her anger, until I saw posts to my original message.

 

I am reading a good book(dumb title) called "VoiceMale - What husbands really think about marriage...". The results of surveys of 1800 married men and the different stages they go through. I'm 47 with 19 yrs in, at least I get the best sex going, far from "on demand", but regularly, with some work.(although her desire has really crashed this past year) That says a lot, there must be something between us. And that is SO very impt to me. I don't think I could live the emasculated life some, scratch that MANY men are forced to live. I could leave her and all I got and find myself in a worse situation in a few years...there are stories in the book of such.

 

Her anger was precipitated by holidays, ailing father, holiday party and other issues. I know it is never warranted to act like that, and I understand poster above says how could it be "all her fault", there may be a lot in our marriage that is my fault, but one human being NEVER has an excuse to treat another like I get treated at times. What is really funny, is I have a male friend, who we both know treats his wife poorly, and she absolutely is revolted by that. Yet, I don't dare explain to her that her behavior parallels his at times, she would never understand(don't mean to be snide, but she is a women, that is how my mother acted for all her life, saw things from only her side).

 

But I have a few funny theories. #1 Life balances out. I have a fabulous career, wonderful house on unique property, great friends, great sex life and lots of interesting hobbies. It can't be all good, can it. I need some pain in my life to balance the good. #2 We marry opposites. I'm a calm, level guy, not emotionally aggressive, almost never loose my temper or yell, whom else could I marry BUT someone who was like that.

 

One thing I got out of book, at least we run out household together in a nice shared manner, she is a good housewife and devoted mother. We get along most of the time, and then there are times I must suffer severe pain, I don't think that part will ever end, hopefully I will try to satisfy her emotional needs so she feels secure and doesn't need to be that way, but I doubt it. I know there is more in store.

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