What do you folks think of married people who are swingers?

I have known this guy for over a year now. He seemed like a really decent honorable guy at first... but after about 2 months of knowing him... told me or claimed to admit (maybe he was lying, who knows) that at least once he and his wife had engaged in swinging.. i.e.. where they both switched partners & had sex with another man and his wife...

I just sat there open mouthed as I was raised to believe in God and believe in the ten commandments and fidelity in marriage. He told me that he and his wife did EVERYTHING as far as sex several weeks before he told me about the swinging thing...

I still don't know to this day whether or not to believe him..about the swinging thing.... but it almost seems like it was true.. cuz he exclaimed with great conviction & EMOTION that they did it because of his "devotion" to her.

Apparently they were married for a very long time.. had gotten married right when they were teenagers and things were getting stale in the bedroom.

I don't really see how they could get stale, lol, as they were also involved in anal sex, S&M and other stuff apparently.. , maybe bondage. who knows.. I really didn't want to know all this stuff. It was just told to me voluntarily.

Now I sort of wonder.. if he WAS telling the truth... do people who act like this ever change? And if he could ever have a normal marriage or would someone like this expect to have another "open" marriage?

He is getting remarried soon.. and I have to wonder in the back of my head if he's going to want his new wife to do the swapping thing again?

I don't know who's idea it was to start with.... but it disturbs me greatly as he has a small child and teenage kids too.

To each his own.. but like I say..I just wanted to run away when he told me this..I find it extremely disturbing to think that a person who I thought was basically a honorable decent stand-up type person could act this way in his marriage.

I had always thought of him as a good person.. course.. he could lie too and has told me SOME white lies.. so it could all be fabricated too...

I do know he was into anal sex and was always talking about wanting to see if there were any S&M clubs in the town we lived in.

I know this is a strange post, believe me.. but I still wonder if someone who appeared so normal and clean cut and decent could actually do these things?

If it's true.. I wish his new bride luck...

However to me.. if a man wants to see you have sex with another man while he has sex with another woman... then he surely doesn't love you.. At least not in a way that I will ever want to be loved by a man, lol, that's for sure.

Here are my thoughts-- Don't worry about it. One great thing about humanity is that we are a very diverse species. Some things that work with some people don't with others. I love beans, my ex throws up when he eats them. Get what I'm saying here? If you spend your life wondering about whether other people are living their lives in a way that YOU see moral, you are never going to have peace. God is the one who will judge us, so don't waste your energy doing it for him. As far as the guy you're talking about changing-- I seriously doubt it. People who like the kinkier side of sex tend to stay that way. It's what gets them off. Also, judging whether he loves/loved his wife is wrong. You have no idea-- you aren't part of their relationship. My ex and I would sometimes "play" with other singles/couples and I have never loved anyone as much as I love him. Also, normality is abnormal. No one is normal. If you are, you're not living. So just sit back, be the best person you can be, and stop worrying about other people's biz. I'm totally not trying to sound mean here, sorry if I do... I just think judging other people's sex life, or judging other people period, is not positive. Cheers!

Well, since you're not intimately involved with this guy, it shouldn't be any of your concern what he chooses to do with that portion of his life. If I'm reading your post correctly he's the one bringing up this topic? If that's the case, you need to tell him, politely but firmly, that you don't want to hear details of his sex life.

As for swinging, it's not something I'd do in a relationship I'm in, but some people enjoy that lifestyle or a polyamorous lifestyle. For as difficult as it is to maintain a good relationship between 2 people, it adds all sorts of levels of complexity when you add in more people.

As someone who is involved in an "alternative lifestyle," even I still fall into the habit of judging others from time to time and have to remind myself that others don't need my approval or acceptance and they're free to live their lives in whatever way they please. I don't particularly care for the times I've been judged in my personal choice to be submissive to my dominant husband, so I try to keep that in mind when dealing with other people. I'm well aware we do stuff that would scare other people or squick them out, so I don't bother discussing details of our personal lives with others. The exception being when we are with our kink friends and the conversation is about techniques and "have you tried (whatever)".

By the way, being "decent and honorable" and being kinky are not mutually exclusive. A person can be both.

It's not sex outside of a relationship that causes problems -- it is the lying and violation of trust that causes the problems. If both partners honestly have an interest/desire to swing, support each other in that interest, and respect any limits that are agreed upon, then it may be an enjoyable experience for all involved. The minute someone engages in "alternative" love-styles to please someone else or lies about the level of their interest or desire is when there are going to be problems.

Ultimately, though, it really sounds like you'd rather not hear about this guy's adventures. Speak up. Tell him it's too much information and you don't want to hear about it.

I'm really wondering why this guy is telling this to you. That makes no sense to me whatsoever.

As far as what people decide to do in their own life. Frankly judging people hasn't gotten me very far so I opt out.

I think a person who is involved with swinging will never ever be able to return to a normal relationship.

If that's what they want to do then it is their business.

The children will never know about it because swingers never do it in their own homes when children are about.

If I were you I'd try not to think about it.

Well.. shes2smart.. i don't really care what people do behind closed doors with each other.. It didn't really bother me when he said he was into S&M and B&D... seriously.. if they are hanging from chandelier while having sex with blindfolds on.. it doesn't really bother me! lol

However. it did really creep me out to hear he was swapping partners with another couple!

It was shocking in fact to hear this because he would be the last person I'd expect this from! He would not even swear around me! He seemed so innocent when I first met him.

I"m sorry.. but there are just some things to me that are over the line... and regardless whether you are in the room when you having your spouse have sex with someone else.. whoa.. to me that is just wrong..

I just don't consider that honorable or decent on any level.. If he promises to honor and obey them.. then having sex in front of them with someone other than their spouse with their consent is not honoring them.

Like I said I was raised to believe in god... it would be nice to hear from someone else who was raised with these beliefs what they would think of such a situation.

I just hate to think of children being raised in this type of morally decrepid environment... I'm sure they don't do this in front of the children.. but he had no qualms about talking about sexual things in front of his young child either!

OMG, this happened to me too! I won't criticize those who are into swinging, but I had an incident similar to yours happen to me once. I say, if his contacting you makes you feel uncomfortable, let him know this.

It's crazy, because the guy that I met was totally cool with me. We met at work. He brought his wife over, and they were just sooo friendly, offered me to come over to their house. I even attended their son's baptism! Yes! They were church goers, and swinging! He would call me at 12:00 at night, telling me about weird stuff like "Oh, this lady in my neigherhood is cranky cuz she ain't getting laid." Then he would try to befriend me, as though he was my bestfriend, always offering me stuff like, "Oh, we leave our keys in this area of the front yard, so if you ever want to come over, come over whenever you want, okay?" I was like, "What?"

Anyway, my personal opinion is, I wouldn't ever get involved in swinging. If I were to ever get married and saw my husband doing another woman, I would be like, "You fricken hippo, get off my husband! Then I would dump him." Just the thought of someone who I consider my life partner doing another person would bother me. I've seen parties where orgies were involved, and it grossed me out! This was waay back in high school. But, yeah, if a couple wants to do it, then cool. If it bothers you, run away from people like that! I did. That's all I can think of.

Wow, BillieJean.. churchgoers who are into swinging!! gawdd....

I don't know.. for all I know he could of made the whole thing up....he kinda made fun of me when i told him that I was a Christian...so maybe he just said that stuff to me JUST to shock me... who knows??

I know he was into new age stuff and the Tao, past lives, that type of thing.

But it was such a shocker cuz he was this really well mannered, laid back, naive type guy from a very small town in the midwest.

Not exactly the kind of place you would expect swingers to come out of....

He was just like this sweet natured country guy so this was quite the shocker to me!!!

Anyway.. I really liked him and cared about him... I got the feeling he sort of had a rough life.... but there is song by Hall & Oates that goes, "I Can't Go For That".

That pretty much sums up what I think of that type of behavior about swinging for married couples.

But I don't know.. after awhile he tell me weird stuff too, just off the cuff.... like he and a few of his male friends were joking/talking about starting a male escort service for women.. i.e. they would be like studs to lonely paying women!

I don't know.. it was just so weird.. maybe I'm in denial..that he didn't really do those things... and just don't want to think what I thought was such a nice person could do these WEIRD things.

He also told me that his family never ever went to church either..... Gawd.. Wow, if this is how someone turns out that doesn't go I'd be sure to bring my children to church! lol

Well, I don't think you can say this has anything to do with going to church or not. Another poster mentioned a couple who went to church and were swingers and I don't go to church (I'm agnostic) and swinging is way out of my personal comfort zone.

My boyfriend and I have actually discussed this because a couple we are friends with used to swing and we both agreed that was something we would never want to do. That for ourselves we didn't believe in it and would never want to "share."

The thing is that you and I can be against swinging in our personal lives, but that doesn't mean we have to judge what other people do in theirs. Just because something is out of one person's comfort zone doesn't mean that everyone else in the world must also feel that way. I always try and reverse things if I find myself judging a person. Like, how would I feel if I was being judged for NOT being a swinger?

Also, you mentioned being christian. In that case I'd concentrate on the fact that I'm pretty sure christians are admonished for judging others. "Judge not lest ye be judged" "Let he who is without sin cast the first stone" etc.

Well.... it doesn't matter what my religion is.. i think i'm still entitled to my opinion.. and yes.. i DO think it's a sin.

But being an agnostic.. i guess you don't believe in the ten commandments either.

Thou shall not commit adultery.

Everyone is entitled to their belief system.. Obviously my friend thought swinging was okay.. but i'm not posting about his belief system.... i'm posting about my own.

The whole reason religion causes such a whole wealth of problems in the world is because people with very strong beliefs often find it very hard to accept other people's beliefs.

How many people commit crimes but are genuinely good people? A lot I would imagine, everything is to do with how you get brought up and the experiences you have and I don't believe you should think any less of your friend for what he believes in. The whole fact he told you should be taken as a sign that he isn't expecting to be judged by you, would you want him thinking less of you for doing so?

In my opinion, swinging, like religion, is private and should be kept to oneself or shared with others of a like mind.

Personally, I think if they want to screw other people then they shouldnt have gotten married. I think it dishonors and devalues the institution of marriage, but thats just my opinion.

THANK YOU Iceman!

I agree totally.. shoot, it wouldn't really matter even if I didn't even believe there was a God!

I just don't think that adultery is the right thing to do in a marriage. let alone having adultery right in front of your partner (cuz that is what they were doing!)

I just think it's sick...

I agree totally with ya Iceman, if things have gotten that stale in the bedroom.. that you have to bed someone else right in front of your spouse, then I think you both need to look into divorcing each other, not devalueing your marriage vows.

It's funny how people always want someone who believes in God to accept whatever wrongdoing someone is doing.. just cuz you think we are "judging" people.

Geez.. this guy sure sat in judgment of me.. he would make fun of me because I said I believed in Christ!

I guess if it's okay for him to judge MY belief system... it's okay for me to judge his actions too,

Wow, BillieJean.. churchgoers who are into swinging!! gawdd....

Most religious people I know are very hypocritical. And most atheists very moral. Doesn't it say something...

i guess you don't believe in the ten commandments either.

Thou shall not commit adultery.

Sexy Sadie, the commandments are just common sense that prevents men from killing each other or not being able to coexist. They were written much before Christianity started. They just make sense. People can be atheists and agree the commandments are good for us, with the exception of one or two which are BS.

I think swinging is only for a couple who has fallen out of love or in the brink of divorce (they often end up divorced). I cannot imagine watching the man I love give phsyical affection (because when you ahev sex you always stroke or kiss someone) to antoher woman. It would drive me nuts. For bored couples who no longer feel love maybe. But I am way too jealous for that.

THANK YOU Iceman!

 

I agree totally.. shoot, it wouldn't really matter even if I didn't even believe there was a God!

 

I just don't think that adultery is the right thing to do in a marriage. let alone having adultery right in front of your partner (cuz that is what they were doing!)

 

I just think it's sick...

I don't think anyone said you shouldn't feel that way.

I agree totally with ya Iceman, if things have gotten that stale in the bedroom.. that you have to bed someone else right in front of your spouse, then I think you both need to look into divorcing each other, not devalueing your marriage vows.

It's funny how people always want someone who believes in God to accept whatever wrongdoing someone is doing.. just cuz you think we are "judging" people.

No one says what you believe is wrong or that you even have to accept it, but what about just not caring? Does the fact that this guy swings affect your relationships in any way, shape, or form? If it doesn't affect you then why worry about whether it's right or wrong for him? I'm sooooo sorry that people think you should try to keep your beliefs YOUR beliefs and not force them on other people, how terribly wrong of them /sarcasm.

Geez.. this guy sure sat in judgment of me.. he would make fun of me because I said I believed in Christ!

 

I guess if it's okay for him to judge MY belief system... it's okay for me to judge his actions too,

Umm, if you said earlier he made fun of you for being Christian then I missed that. It's not right of him to judge either and I didn't see anyone saying that, but ever hear the saying "two wrongs don't make a right?" I think that's pretty apt in this situation. Why would you lower yourself to his level of judging, if you know that it's wrong, just because he did it first?

As far as being agnostic and the ten commandments, well I don't follow them just because they are the ten commandments, but I think most are pretty commonsense stuff. I certainly do not believe adultery is okay, and any guy I'm with would know that and would know I wouldn't put up with any cheating (btdt with my EX-husband). That still doesn't mean that I care what other people do in their private lives. A lot of swinging couples don't consider it cheating because it's done with the consent of both partners. Would I consider it cheating in my own life? Heck yeah! Does it affect my life that they don't consider it cheating? Nope, not in the least. So do I care if they are swingers? Nope.

That's generally how I judge all situations, does it affect me? If the answer is no then I really don't care what consenting adults do in their own lives.

I guess if it's okay for him to judge MY belief system... it's okay for me to judge his actions too,

 

Actually, you could have avoided hearing about things you find disagreeable and all the attendant judgmentalism had you uttered the following 2 sentences:

 

"I'm sorry, but I don't believe your personal life is any of my business. Now, can we please discuss something else?"

WELL.... i didn't pry it out of him, believe me.. He just told me this out of the blue...

Like i said in my original post.. if i hadn't thought he was such a nice, decent guy... none of this would of bothered me or shocked me in the least.. but he seemed like the least likely person to be having this lifestyle.

Man.. have morals gotten so low in this country that swingin is now the new hip/acceptable thing?

WELL.... i didn't pry it out of him, believe me.. He just told me this out of the blue...

Like i said in my original post.. if i hadn't thought he was such a nice, decent guy... none of this would of bothered me or shocked me in the least.. but he seemed like the least likely person to be having this lifestyle.

Man.. have morals gotten so low in this country that swingin is now the new hip/acceptable thing?

Because you didn't initiate the conversation, it would have been appropriate to politely let him know you didn't think it was an acceptable topic of discussion. You can't expect other people to respect your boundaries if they do not know what they are. You can't expect everyone else to know your boundaries if you don't tell them what they are.

Also, you are basing your opinion on the morals of an entire country on your personal interactions with ONE person and the opinions of, what, a half-dozen people on a message board. That's hardly a representative sample.

You will never be able to control what other people do. The only thing you can control is your own thoughts and actions. The next time - and there will be a next time because there are people with different ideas and lifestyles than your own - someone crosses your personal line of what's acceptable conversation, SPEAK UP. If they don't respect a boundary that you clearly defined for them and continue to discuss things you don't care to hear, end your relationship with them. If this conversation occurred in your workplace, speak to your supervisor as it may be considered sexual harassment.

Finally, after 40+ years of living and dealing with other people, I have found that people who really are what they initially appear to be or really are as I initially assumed they would be are few and far between. This is really an area where lowering/eliminating my own expectations has been quite beneficial. People are who they are, and that is something that only gets revealed over time and through their actions as well as their words. If I don't care for who someone is or what someone does, I do not have the right to try and change them. So it's a waste of my energy and time for me to be outraged or irritated because I don't agree with the way they choose to live their life. What I can do is limit my contact with them, and do what I can to make any necessary interaction remains polite, civil and distant.

Well.. i certainly didn't spend a half an hour sitting to him telling me how he and his wife boinked someone else!

It just popped out of his mouth...and only took a few seconds to tell me this. I had no idea what he was going to say to me before he said that.. you act like i havea crystal ball or something on what someone is going to tell me!

If I WAS going to stop him.I never would of know REALLY what kind of person he was.. but we had started to spend more and more time together..and I had already invited him over my house....so it was in my best interest to know what type of person i had befriended. if I had told him to shut up.. i never would of KNOWN that he had these kind of morals....

You all can say what you want... we didn't have much to do with each other after that day he revealed that....

I found it so disturbing... whatever.. you all think you can flame me about this ... (what is against the rules, isn't it?).. i just think that line of thinking when you are married... and supposedly he was SO DEVOTED to his wife they did this.. is just plain sick!

I had no idea what he was going to say to me before he said that.. you act like i havea crystal ball or something on what someone is going to tell me!

No, there was no way you could predict it. All I'm saying is that as soon as he started going down that path it was in your power to tell him to knock it off. That's ALL you can do.

If I WAS going to stop him.I never would of know REALLY what kind of person he was.. but we had started to spend more and more time together..and I had already invited him over my house....so it was in my best interest to know what type of person i had befriended. if I had told him to shut up.. i never would of KNOWN that he had these kind of morals....

Alright, so now you know he's not a person you want to be around. Apparently you've taken steps to remove him from your life. So why continue to let him have enough of your brain cells that what he chooses to do irritates you?

I found it so disturbing... whatever.. you all think you can flame me about this ... (what is against the rules, isn't it?).. i just think that line of thinking when you are married... and supposedly he was SO DEVOTED to his wife they did this.. is just plain sick!

I'm not flaming you. What I am doing is making suggestions on how you can handle similar situations in the future and spare yourself the sort of irritation you're feeling now. Unless you like spending your time being irritated over things you cannot control....

Otherwise, you can acknowledge that you did what you could do (cut off contact with him) and let it go. No point in getting yourself in a state over what others choose to do. Life's too short to let people bother you that much. Seriously. You don't need to poll other people to decide for yourself if swinging is "wrong" or "sick" or "bad" or whatever. You already know how you feel about it, and when it comes to deciding what you do with your life, that's all you need to know.

There is no way to tell upon initially meeting someone what kind of person they are. You can make guesses and assumptions. Sometimes you will be right. Many times you will be incorrect. These are things we can only learn over time. Unless you want to spend your life being continually disappointed, irritated, upset and/or angry about other people's choices, you might want to consider changing your approach to things a bit.

SexySadie,

I think what Shes2smart was saying is that you can choose not to have anything to do with this person if you don't agree with his lifestyle. In fact, as soon as the words " we are swingers" left his mouth you had the option of not listening to him anymore.

You can have an opinion, we all have them, but that doesn't mean everyone has to or will agree with you.

Well.. I AM curious as to whether other people have as much as adversion to this behavior as me.. so you saying, "You don't need to poll other people to decide for yourself if swinging is "wrong" or "sick" or "bad" or whatever." sure seems like you are trying to censor me shesosmart.

Everyone else on this board gets to ask whatever question they want.

so you saying, "You don't need to poll other people to decide for yourself if swinging is "wrong" or "sick" or "bad" or whatever." sure seems like you are trying to censor me shesosmart.

Nope. From my interpretation of what you've been posting it sounded to me like you were looking for back-up in your opinion...in the sense of asking if you were in the right. If I have misinterpreted this, I apologize.

My point was simply that having the courage of one's own convictions is back-up enough.

SexySadie-

I've been with my bf for 41/2 years. All this time, I've been TOTALLY AGAINST my bf even going to strip clubs!!! Well, just recently (and I mean 2 weeks ago) I agreed to accompany him to a strip club!! To inform you, this is TOTALLY against my values, for WHO would be so desperate to be employed by such an employer??? Well, when I went, he and I both bought each other lapdances, as I realized it was kind of a fun, humorous thing to participate in together, and not the nasty sexual thing I'd always imagined-BTW, I'm 24 years old.

BUT-my bf and I have discussed the swingers issue and decided that it is JUST TOO MUCH for our particular relationship, as we value our own exclusive sexual relationship. We're both very interested, but realize that we love each other TOO MUCH to engage in sexual relations with others We feeel it's wrong as ultimately, it IS sex. A

My bf is religious (Jewish) and I am agnostic. However, despite my bf's opinion, 'swinging' is STILL cheating, and NOT cool in committed relationships. I agree with all the posters above re: the validitly of swinging. I DEFINITELY agree it suggestgs sexual unfulfillment in a relationship and should not be pursued=and I'm Agnostiic!!!

If you're strong and confident enough, let your friend know about the sacrifices he makes in loyalty to his SO, and find some different morally-based acquaintances in your church to spend time with, PLEASE!

Phishgirl