Nice guys do finish last!!!

Ah yes, Turkish I believe there are 8 words to describe 'love'.

Greek have 4:

Philia - Friendly love (platonic)

Eros - Romantic love;

Agape - Brotherly love (unconditional)

and Storge - Natural affection.

Sorry if that's off topic, but I saw the previous post and thought of it.

Actually, I will. Thanks Miss M, I just may have a new sig, that suits the new me!

I've accepted the way things are and I plan to carry on in life. I am quiet, shy, and nice. If I have to change, then screw it. I shouldn't have to change who I am to find it.

That's the attitude Alabama. You don't change who you are, you don't change your actions. You stick to being you and don't worry about finding love. Love comes on its on time. Forget the dating sites, forget going out, forget on working on those silly social skills.... none of that will lead to love. Just be you. And if you have to change an ounce of who you are or what you do with the specific intention of meeting someone... its not worth it.

Greek have 4:

Philia - Friendly love (platonic)

Eros - Romantic love;

Agape - Brotherly love (unconditional)

and Storge - Natural affection.

Would not true love in the sense we are referring to entail all of those? You love some unconditional, with the core being a deep friendship, a natural affection for one another, and a romantic attraction. Yes, there may be different types of love but its clear the kind people are talking about on here. Which is why I recommend not looking and just being friends first then letting it grow into more. It's develops naturally and encompasses all aspects of love, making it more likely to survive.

There are many different types of love.

Well, I totally agree, but that's not what he said.

Would not true love in the sense we are referring to entail all of those? You love some unconditional, with the core being a deep friendship, a natural affection for one another, and a romantic attraction. Yes, there may be different types of love but its clear the kind people are talking about on here. Which is why I recommend not looking and just being friends first then letting it grow into more. It's develops naturally and encompasses all aspects of love, making it more likely to survive.

Or you could try not to analyze everything that's said.

I saw the post, I replied with the Greek loves because I remembered them and found it interesting.

Or you could try not to analyze everything that's said

Just a sec. Let me figure out how to analyse that.....

Just kidding. Actually, the post was more in reference to corvidae's comment on there being more then one type of love. I was trying to say that the kind of love people are clearly talking about on here is a real love that would encompass the whole spectrum of loves. Your post gave me a convient example to use so I could just mention those things instead of getting into a specific example. Thanks for providing me with material to work with.

I saw the post, I replied with the Greek loves because I remembered them and found it interesting.

Hey Darkblue, I found it interesting too.

Sometimes English is so limiting and unimaginative.

You're welcome Shy.

Thank you MissM - That's why I learned spanish, Italian and French

Language itself is too limited...

Language itself is too limited...

I don't think I agree. Proper use of language, with all the nuances and shades of meaning, is a beautiful thing. Add to that the tools of tone, inflection, melody and juxtaposition. To add even more to the range of meaning, there is the flexibility of facial expression and body language.

A whole speech can be completely changed by a raised eyebrow or an expressive shrug.

Right on DN. Langauges can be very flexible, it all just depends on how you use it.

That's why I learned spanish, Italian and French

Wow, I'm impressed.

I only know ONE language.

 

And this talk of "the language of Love" got me thinking, and I found this interesting write-up at Wikipedia. They mentioned all the names of love you listed, and more!

link removed

 

But also, to go back and grab something a bit more on-topic...

I've accepted the way things are and I plan to carry on in life. I am quiet, shy, and nice. If I have to change, then screw it. I shouldn't have to change who I am to find it.

I actually totally agree with this. And it reminds me a few conversations I had many, many years ago with a few guys I was dating after the breakup of my marriage. I was in my mid-twenties. These guys would be sooo nice, very polite, so lovely, so well-mannered, gracious, thoughtful and gallant. But after a few dates they'd change to the exact opposite. As it kept happening, I got more and more confused and frustrated. So a couple of times I was on a 1st date with one of these "perfect" guys and I asked him if he was real. I asked if he acted that "nice" all the time. He looked puzzled, and said he had to be polite because that's what he's supposed to do on a date. And then he asked, "you wouldn't want me to be rude, would you?" And I blurted out, "Well, yes, absolutely, if that's how you are normally. If the real you is rude, then you should absolutely be rude on a date so I know how you really are. Yes, please be whatever you are normally so I know exactly what I'm dealing with. But if you're being nice when you're not really a nice person, then you're just being fake, and I'm just not interested in that." [paraphrasing]

 

I probably had this same conversation with a dozen different guys in a few months time, all to no avail. They all just looked at me as if I'd grown a second head. It's amazing that it's now this many years later and I'm still frustrated by the same kind of thing.

 

If I have to change, then screw it. I shouldn't have to change who I am to find it.

Yes, yes, I totally agree.

And I think so many of those who are fake also want a partner who is fake. So many "fake" guys have wanted me to be something I wasn't, some fantasy they cooked up. And they seemed surprised and so disappointed to find out I was simply a regular human being who really wasn't interested in playing into their fantasies.

I totally agree Miss M. I decided to get more involved in my College. There's a hall government (for residence halls) and I decided to join. Maybe after College I'll go on a few dates, but until then, I want to continue to grow as a person.

Well, yes, absolutely, if that's how you are normally. If the real you is rude, then you should absolutely be rude on a date so I know how you really are. Yes, please be whatever you are normally so I know exactly what I'm dealing with. But if you're being nice when you're not really a nice person, then you're just being fake, and I'm just not interested in that."

Miss M, if a girl said that to me on a date I just might have to propose. Someone that honest, that sure of themselves, someone so into a person being who they are and not putting on a front.... its really very sexy. What were those guys thinking? If only I had been born a couple decades sooner.

Language itself is too limited...

I don't think I agree. Proper use of language, with all the nuances and shades of meaning, is a beautiful thing. Add to that the tools of tone, inflection, melody and juxtaposition. To add even more to the range of meaning, there is the flexibility of facial expression and body language.

 

A whole speech can be completely changed by a raised eyebrow or an expressive shrug.

We have art, music, and other forms of communication. They have no other way of communicating their feelings/ideas about things (wish I could come up with something better than 'things', sounds dumb) except through showing the eternal and universal behind the transitory and the person. Something they obviously can't do with language as easily as art.

I agree, language is a beautiful thing if used correctly. But how many people actually use it correctly? I'm not right now because I put 'But' at the beginning of this sentence and I'm probably not fully utilizing the features of language in each of my sentences. It has been proven that many humans learn or understand better through images because that is how we store memory in a conceptual sense: through series of images. Ever notice that someone else has a better idea of what is going on with some system if someone draws a diagram showing what happens as opposed to describing it in mere words? Software designers will develop horrible software if they rely on just language to display their requirements.

Kind of like how you saw a picture of one of those people in New Orleans carrying a baby and is obviously in despair. People would react much more strongly through seeing the images that the state communicates to other people (people in despair, angry people, torn-apart houses) as opposed to newspaper articles concerning the matter. Yes, pictures are on those newspaper articles, but if there were no pictures and just words, then people wouldn't have reacted as strongly as if the article just had images and maybe small captions.

What I really want to get at though is this: how is another language able to communicate better than another? I mean I'm just wondering how Italian can 'communicate better' than English.

Ever had occasions where you could just not describe your feelings or something else in mere words? Happens to me a lot but that's probably because I'm a very abstract thinker. It's the limitations of language kicking in. Not kicking language to the curb by any means as I am using it right now, but consider how language is a socially constructed entity over time and thereforeeee other much stronger possibilities of communication could be sitting right in front of our blind eyes.

OK I'm off-topic...

Well, yes, absolutely, if that's how you are normally. If the real you is rude, then you should absolutely be rude on a date so I know how you really are. Yes, please be whatever you are normally so I know exactly what I'm dealing with. But if you're being nice when you're not really a nice person, then you're just being fake, and I'm just not interested in that."

 

Miss M, if a girl said that to me on a date I just might have to propose. Someone that honest, that sure of themselves, someone so into a person being who they are and not putting on a front.... its really very sexy. What were those guys thinking? If only I had been born a couple decades sooner.

Ookaayyy. So now you've REALLY got my attention.

(And for some strange reason I'm also blushing and giggling. ) ...

And you said you'd propose??? ... Well, I guess Shidoshi probably could really have a lot of fun with this. Where's he gone to anyway?

 

Okay, seriously....

Someone that honest, that sure of themselves, someone so into a person being who they are and not putting on a front....

Honest? yes....

Not putting on a front? yes...

But, sure of myself? I do get why you would conclude that, but it really didn't feel like that at all. I just find dishonesty to be a very frightening thing. I'd even prefer that a person was honestly cruel than one who is dishonestly polite. I just like all the cards on the table, even the bad ones. The truth is going to eventually emerge anyway, so why waste time trying to prolong it? Fake people make me uneasy, neurotic, and they don't allow me to make an informed decision. Blunt honesty feels very healing and safe.

 

What were those guys thinking?

Well, some of them thought I was an oddball, that I was a bit "touched" in the head. Some of them criticized me and complained, told me I was unrealistic. (I know, such an irony. And some of them got very uncomfortable with the whole idea of dating me and left me alone. A few admired it and acknowedged that it was something good and special, but they still weren't able to handle it. It seems that those who are so persistently fake aren't comfortable with the idea of stark honesty in a relationship. I think they felt scrutinized, exposed, under a spotlight ... and miserable. Now I realize that they were just being pretentious because they felt that in their "natural" state they'd be rejected. And in most cases that was probably also true, but still no excuse for being fake.

 

And unfortunately, I spent more and more time feeling as if I'd gotten off on the wrong planet, less and less sure of myself. Also very depressed, lonely, confused. But it's nice to finally know there are a few others like me, (no matter what the age ).

I just find dishonesty to be a very frightening thing. I'd even prefer that a person was honestly cruel than one who is dishonestly polite. I just like all the cards on the table, even the bad ones. The truth is going to eventually emerge anyway, so why waste time trying to prolong it? Fake people make me uneasy, neurotic, and they don't allow me to make an informed decision. Blunt honesty feels very healing and safe.

Oh, I Agree! With a passion.

It's very very difficult to know where you stand with someone that has proved to be 'fake'.

Thank God I'm not the only one that thinks like that.

Also, where has the original poster gone?

I think he's abandoned you; not suspecting such a long and complicated thread.

And you said you'd propose??? ... Well, I guess Shidoshi probably could really have a lot of fun with this. Where's he gone to anyway?

He couldn't take the heat so he got out of the fire. Too bad, I could use the laugh I would get from whatever he would come up with. But to clear everything up, I'm having some lighthearted fun. I wouldn't be proposing on the first date. Now maybe the 2nd....

But, sure of myself? I do get why you would conclude that, but it really didn't feel like that at all. I just find dishonesty to be a very frightening thing. I'd even prefer that a person was honestly cruel than one who is dishonestly polite. I just like all the cards on the table, even the bad ones. The truth is going to eventually emerge anyway, so why waste time trying to prolong it? Fake people make me uneasy, neurotic, and they don't allow me to make an informed decision. Blunt honesty feels very healing and safe.

I agree completely. I'd rather someone be honest about there intentions and attitude, even if they are mean. At least you know where they stand instead of having to play a mind game to figure everything else.

It takes someone strong, assertive, and not willing to be put through something she doesn't like in order to come out and say something like that. How many people do you know that would say something like that? The fact that you did shows that you are strong and assertive. You knew you wanted complete honesty and had the confidence and guts to make sure you got it.

It seems that those who are so persistently fake aren't comfortable with the idea of stark honesty in a relationship.

Yep. It's all they know how to do, be fake. So when faced with something unknown like honesty it scares them. They are also scared that just being themselves won't be good enough, a lack of confidence.

And unfortunately, I spent more and more time feeling as if I'd gotten off on the wrong planet, less and less sure of myself. Also very depressed, lonely, confused. But it's nice to finally know there are a few others like me, (no matter what the age ).

Everyone has felt depressed, lonely, and confused. The others like you have gone through the same feelings and emotions. It's nice to know though that we're not alone in our feelings and that there are some who can understand what we are going through.

Question of the day: If you really love each other, wouldn't that be enough to last all eternity?

Not alone.

There's more to a relationship lasting - than even unconditional love.

Not alone.

There's more to a relationship lasting - than even unconditional love.

Well, ya theres things like honesty, communication, trust, etc.

But if ya knew the circumstances the focus is on the eternity part. PM me if you want to know the story. Basically, I'm asking is if a love is true and strong, thats what will make it last beyond death do us part and for eternity. The other factors are important, but its the love that ensures things survive forever.

In my opinion, it's a complete set of these things working in harmony together with love that makes for a happy relationship.

I do mostly agree however.