Ask the Expert: Pre-Engagement Limbo

Frustrated because you want to tie the knot and your long-term boyfriend still isn't ready? On August 9 - 11, Andrea Passman Candell M.A., San Francisco based Relationship Coach and Founder of link removed will host a discussion on "pre-engagement limbo."

Of course the process of getting married is unique to each individual. Not all women want to dash down the aisle and not all men are frozen in the tracks. However there is a common story about how a woman feels read to get married before her long term beau.

Andrea has been featured in The Wall Street Journal, Boston Herald, CBS Television. Andrea is currently collecting "pre-engagement limbo" stories for the HisColdFeet book project. If you're interested in sharing please email email removed.

Feel free to post your "pre-engagement limbo" related questions in this topic.

Andrea, welcome to eNotAlone and thank you very much for kindly agreeing to host this discussion for us.

Note: Andrea will start posting replies tomorrow.

Here's my question for Andrea:

I've been with my boyfriend for almost 6 years now. We're 20 and 21 years old. He wont get engaged (but particularly, wont get married) unless his parents say it's okay. He says his mother tells him all the time to not get married (not to get married, as my boyfriend says, until he's maybe 25 or 26). I'm sure she might think he's thinking it as we've been together for so long. If we just started dating I might feel like waiting, but we've been together for 6 years now just about, and that makes me feel ready because of the length of our relationship. I feel like it's time for the next step already. Even just engagement and I'll wait a couple years.

The thing is, his parents got married at 30 years old-- but they didn't meet until they were around that age anyway. So they might feel like he should do it like they did. My parents were: my mother 18 and my father 24, and they have said since I think my senior year of highschool (2 years ago) that if he wants to marry me then that's great and it's fine with them.

Anyways, he said to me that if his parents told him it was okay to marry, then he would. But he needs that okay from his parents.

My father tells me that one day my boyfriend wont be listening to them anymore and will marry me if he wants.

I've gotten advice on the forum here that it's good to wait anyways, and because of that I believe waiting until maybe 23 or 24 is good (before I thought right now at 20 would be fine, but now I agree that 23 or 24 is fine). Waiting another 2 or so years after I'm out until he's 26 wouldn't kill me, but in any case, I DON'T want to have to wait until his parents say it's okay.

Is there anything I can do, or is it true he wont always want to listen to his parents? I just don't want to have to wait years and years for someone ELSE'S desicion... and who knows if they'll tell him to wait until he's 30?? His parents are much older than mine. I'm surprised they don't want him to marry me so they can have grandchildren. I'm actually thinking maybe they'll say that but who knows.

Hey there,

I have a question. I have been with my boyfriend for over 3 years and we have living together for little over 2 years. I am ready for marriage and children. We are both 28, be 29 this year. Have very good careers, so we are not in school. He does not seem ready and skates arounf the issue if I bring it up. In your opinion, what are the chances of a live-in boyfriend proposing to the girl? I really want this work but at the same time I don't to wait around for something that might not come. Thank you so much for doing this and taking the time to read my post.

Hey Andrea,

I met a guy in March 2004 in my grad class. From the day that I met him, I knew that he was the one that I was going to marry. Everything clicked just right. He is 25 and I am 24. He is from India, and never had a girlfriend before me. He said that no other girl had talked to him the way that I had, and he had never been attracted to any other girl. He really keeps to himself emotionally, and even his friends told me that I probably knew him better after two months, than they did after two years. He just keeps everything to himself. The only red flag I saw from the VERY beginning was that he never wanted to talk about the future.

We dated for two months, and got into small arguments here and there; however, the entire time, I knew that he was perfect for me. Then, in May 2004, he broke up with me, saying that we were too different to be "together forever". I initiated NC and did not call him for a few months. Then, I called him on his birthday, wished him happy birthday, and invited him over to see my new house (in October 2004). We got back together that night, and have been together since then. I could feel that night, that he really had missed me. Stupid me did not initiate a conversation about the break, and, instead, jumped right back into the relationship with him.

About two months ago, things were going really really great (we were spending lots of time together, etc.), and I asked him to meet my parents. In our culture, meeting parents is a big deal, as it means that this is the person we are serious about. He totally freaked out, and broke up with me. Told me that he didn't see a future in the relationship, and we should end it before there was more hurt. He was really sad, but he was insistent. He said that I should never blame myself, as I did nothing wrong. He said that after a year, he should feel like meeting my parents, and because he doesn't, we should end the relationship, because he doesn't want to hurt me further in the future.

It has been two months since this, and I can't stop hurting. I know that I have done nothing wrong in the relationship ... I loved him with all my heart. My love is so pure for him, and I don't regret anything. I know there is no "change" I can bring in myself, and I do not want him to change either, except furthering the relationship. I called him a few times after the break-up, but to save myself anymore emotional distress, I stopped calling him over a month ago. He has not called me either. Why after all that we have shared, can he not even call?

We were so close, do you think it's possible to get him back? Right now, I just plan on letting him go, and letting "fate" take it's course, whatever that may be. All of my friends and family just keep telling me not to call him and let him miss me. Is that the right thing to do? Do you think he's just afraid of commitment? It seems like everytime I brought up the future, he skirted around the issue, and at the end, just found reasons why it wouldn't work. Then he fleed. Is there anything I can do to show him that I really love him and would do anything to work on this with him?

Thanks for reading!

Blue

Hi Xmrth,

Thank you for writing! Reading your post made me think of a few things. Aside from the fact that you have been dating your beau for 6 years - what are some other reasons that make you want to get engaged right now at this point in your life? Women tend to feel ready to get engaged before men do, and I don't know many men of this generation who feel ready to get engaged by 21.

I get that you'd rather hear from him that he's not ready, and not have his decision be influenced by his parents. Sounds like you're not feeling so great that the "when" of the engagement should be approved by them. 21 is young, and him wanting his parents "okay" reflects that, and perhaps that he isn't ready right now.

You ask, "Is there anything I can do, or is it true he wont always want to listen to his parents? I just don't want to have to wait years and years for someone ELSE'S desicion... and who knows if they'll tell him to wait until he's 30??"

In response, (early) 20's are the years to grow, of course this varies for each person as people mature at different paces - but, these seem to be the years that people become more independent, they find themselves, and become more confident making their own decisions. Aside from this issue does he feel like he needs his parents okay when making other decisions (where to live, career issues, etc.)? Could you talk to him about how their okay effects him?

Best,

Andrea Passman Candell

Thanks for your response Andrea!

Another big reason other than the length we've been together is that I want the responsibility because I feel like I'm "done" with everything else and have felt this way for many years now.

We could just get a place together for starters but that's another thing his parents say he can't do.

He isn't treated like a child at all-- not in the least bit. He has never had any "rules" because he has always been very mature and has never done stupid things over the years, but his parents seem to want to control his movements from here on concerning money and marriage.

His reasons for always listening to his parents are because "they've never been wrong." But I don't think that means they've completely right about everything.

To answer you on what else his parents seem to have a say in is they also direct him in his career (not what to do, but how to go about doing it and how to be sucessful). Living together is another thing his parents would "kill" him for-- but they don't mind we take vacations alone together or any of that.

So I try to imagine if his parents were mine, and I can see where he's coming from having all that direction as it hasn't gone bad, but I can't fully agree that I'd like being told what big desicions are right for me.

I'm wondering if this will change in a couple of years or if I'll just have to sit back and go along with it (do you know other cases where the parents have a say in what the male does, etc?) how does that turn out?)

I'm willing to wait, but I'd like to better understand the hold up. I try to, but again, I personally wouldn't just not get married/wait if my own parents told me to wait. I'd do what I feel is right and I'm hoping he'll do that, too. He is very mature and would make his own desicions on these things-- if he could.

Hi kellbell,

I'm not so sure if how things turn out heavily depend on whether he's a live-in boyfriend or not. Some may say that if a couple is already living together - then guys may feel little incentive to hurry to tie the knot. But, it doesn't always work that way.

At the sound of "the m word" many men respond with, "Can we talk about it later?" - or as you say, skate around the topic. These talks are difficult for men to have. But, from reading your post I would say the best way to find out what he's thinking is to set aside a time to have a conversation about the direction that the relationship is headed. (Of course planned when the timing is right and when you've each had a moment to gather your thoughts.)

Men tend to be ready to get married later than women, and for most men contemplating tying the knot is a whole process in itself. What helps to have "the talk" is if women show their beau that they understand that getting married can be scary. An opening like, "I know that talking about engagement and marriage can be difficult....but I think it would be good if we share with each other our thoughts on..." - this gives them the impression that you get that it can be a tough talk to have, and that you're on their side. And, this comes accross differently than opening with, "When do you think we'll get engaged?" Starting off with questions like these seem to make men a little jumpy b/c they know we're expecting an answer.

Having a conversation that includes any fears, as well as hopes, and his thoughts about marriage - should give you the insight you need to determine if you're both on the same page.

I hope this helps, let me know if you have any more questions.

Best,

Andrea Passman Candell

Hi again,

You wrote,

"I'm wondering if this will change in a couple of years or if I'll just have to sit back and go along with it (do you know other cases where the parents have a say in what the male does, etc?) how does that turn out?)

I'm willing to wait, but I'd like to better understand the hold up. I try to, but again, I personally wouldn't just not get married/wait if my own parents told me to wait. I'd do what I feel is right and I'm hoping he'll do that, too. He is very mature and would make his own desicions on these things-- if he could."

It sounds like they think 21 is too young to get married, and they'd like him to wait a couple more years. At this point in his life, it looks like their word matters a lot to him. I can't predict if, how, and when their dynamic will change, but I can say that as he grows and becomes more independent, more confident, then I imagine he'll feel free to make his own decisions - Which could change the dynamic from needing their okay, to wanting their opinion.

Hope this helps.

Andrea

Hi Andrea, and thanks for your time and effort!

I just had a more simple question, one in which may not be the same type you get, but I figured that you might have an educated answer on.

I'm wondering what signs there may be present that say "I want to marry you". Could it be something he says or does that will suggest that he may be thinking of popping the question? How does a man who sees you as his future wife behave?

I have a very hard time decoding the male brain at times, obviously!

Hi Blue,

From reading your post it looks like you two may want different things and are moving the relationship in two different directions. You'd like to move it forward, and he has the brakes on. Instead of considering if it's possible to get him back, what about taking time to consider the behavior he's shown you. Do you want to be in a pattern with someone who you get close to, and then as you say "flees"?

You write, "He really keeps to himself emotionally...The only red flag I saw from the VERY beginning was that he never wanted to talk about the future."

You ask if there's anything you can do to show him you really love him? From what you described, it sounds like you did show him. It seems like this is more about him doing his own work to discover why opening up emotionally is so difficult, and why it is that he had the brakes on - even from the very beginning.

Hope this helps.

All the best, Andrea

Hi OceanEyes,

Great question!

Perhaps when both people are on the same page as to where the relationship is headed - As well as having a strong sense of togetherness within the relationship dynamic.

Hints might be: showing enthusiasm about other friends/family members tying the knot, having enthusiasm about their own relationship, and talk about the future.

Best,

Andrea

I don't understand men... I have been with a guy for eight monthes and I feel like we are very close. I have recently met his family and he has mentioned marriage…when we were visiting his family he said that it would have been a good weekend to propose. I never know how serious he is when he says things like that. He has met all of my family except my father, and he seems to avoid it.

He will often casually mention about our future kids and often talks (which he does follow through with) of future plans. He still likes to go out with his best friends (who are single) to bars and likes to spend time alone…how serious is he? Help decode men for me, please….!!!

I gotta add my two cents here to xmrth. She said: "Another big reason other than the length we've been together is that I want the responsibility because I feel like I'm "done" with everything else and have felt this way for many years now."

At 20 years old, you havent experienced life. You havent done really anything in life except get through your teenage years. You havent grown. Your boyfriend wants to work toward a career and work on his goals and not have the responsiblity RIGHT NOW of a wife and possibly children. GOOD FOR HIM. What are your goals xmrth? You need to develop yourself first, take responsibility for yourself---Your boyfriend wants to do that and probably feels the burden of being responsible for you. I'm sure you are mature, but you will grow tremendously during your twenties. Just ask anyone here in their 30s if they are different than they were at 20. Go to college, start a business, or do something else brilliant with yourself. Then talk marriage.

Go to college, start a business, or do something else brilliant with yourself. Then talk marriage.

I'm already halfway through college and have a job right in my field and have so many connections and almost definite plans for bigger things when I'm out of college. It's not like he's going to ask me to tomorrow or anything. I'm just wondering when I should expect it to come and all else I mentioned. It's mostly up to him as I'm not proposing so I can do what I want in the meantime really, but I understand what you're trying to say.

If anything, he is the one who feels that way right now, on top of his parents steering him through big decisions.

The more I think about it though, the more I see it's wise to wait. I think about this alot of course, so I realize things for myself as well as through what I read on the forums. The way I'm seeing it is like I said, it's up to him. I've let him know I want it, but I also wanted an opinion of the whole thing with his parents choosing for him. I guess it makes me feel like I'm waiting on someone else's decision rather than his own, which is what I want-- I want his. I thought being engaged after college and then a couple years later would come marriage and it would work out well. When I first posted for advice here, I was thinking maybe 23 or 24 for marriage was good, but now I'm thinking by the time he comes around may be just the right time-- but his parents scare me with it because I don't know if they will change their minds... my concerns are alot with them actually.

Hi vballchick,

You wrote,

"He still likes to go out with his best friends (who are single) to bars and likes to spend time alone…how serious is he? Help decode men for me, please….!!!"

It sounds like you're wondering if he can be serious when he talks about marriage and at the same time go to bars with his single friends. To answer that I would ask, how often does he go to bars with his friends? Does he ever include you?

You also say you never know how serious he is when he does talk about proposing, etc. Just wondering what else makes you question his seriousness?

I'm not sure how old he is but, with a group of guy friends it's difficult to be the first one to get hitched...(it's also difficult to be the last single guy out of the group.) Does it feel like he's trying to balance his relationship with you - with his relationship with his friends? Two things I would ask, does it feel genuine/sincere when he talks about the future, and is he considerate of you the nights when he does go out with his buddies?

You wrote that he avoids meeting your dad. Have you two talked about why?

Best,

Andrea

Andrea....

This is not so much for me.....it's more a question that rises in my mind due to the frequency of other posters whom seem to share similar situations to the below...

At what point do you advocate maybe women should move on? I see a lot of people who seem to feel that "convincing" their partner to get married/engaged is perfectly normal...do you not feel to a degree that cold feet aside at times, that a man knows when he wants to or does NOT want to marry you? Or I see women who despite their partner saying they do NOT want to get married (either at all, or to them) yet hang around for years hoping they will change their mind...and surprised and heartbroken when they don't?

At what point should someone say look, it is clear we have different goals, I need more (marriage) and I am moving on?

I have a similar question Andrea,

I've got a friend who's been with her bf living together for coming up on 10 years. She's totally living in denial if you ask me, as they are a wreck and he treats her terribly. I know she very much wants to get married and have children, she is 31 and he is 33.... I just don't see that happening.

I guess it must be more of a self esteem thing for her that she'd rather be with him and never get married and have children, than be alone.

Hi RayKay,

Great point!

You wrote,

"Or I see women who despite their partner saying they do NOT want to get married (either at all, or to them) yet hang around for years hoping they will change their mind...and surprised and heartbroken when they don't? At what point should someone say look, it is clear we have different goals, I need more (marriage) and I am moving on?"

When a woman wants to get married and her boyfriend doesn't, it's clear they want two different things. They need to recognize that. When it's not a match - it's not a match.

When a guy tells his girlfriend he doesn't want to get married she takes it personally - she feels rejected. If she's hanging around it's probably because she's hoping he'll eventually want to marry her, she will then feel accepted. However, if she were to evaluate her relationship and question, "Do I really want to be with this man who doesn't want what I want?" - then she would feel empowered - probably enough to move on.

You wrote,

"I see a lot of people who seem to feel that "convincing" their partner to get married/engaged is perfectly normal...do you not feel to a degree that cold feet aside at times, that a man knows when he wants to or does NOT want to marry you?"

Not wanting to get married, is different from not being ready to get married. When a woman announces her engagement, her friends beam with enthusiasm. When a guy tells his friends the news, he usually hears "my condolences." He walks slower towards the aisle.

A woman needs to identify if her boyfriend simply doesn't want to get married, or if he wants to get married, but is nervous about it . She needs to listen to what he says, and pay attention to how he treats the relationship.

It shouldn't be about convincing a partner to propose. When both want to tie the knot (but feel ready at different times), then they need to talk about their fears, as well as their hopes. And, work together to move the relationship forward.

Best,

Andrea

Hi Hope75,

Unfortunately, people do stay in unhealthy relationships out of fear, insecurity, all sorts of reasons.

Hopefully your friend will soon realize that she deserves better.

All the best,

Andrea

This was a three day discussion with Andrea Passman Candell which is now closed for new questions.

I want to thank Andrea for finding time to visit and share her expertise with us.

Yes, thanks Andrea! I'm sure that you will find a lot of future success in your field. Your time here has been appreciated!