"Bad boys"

I think the main thing it comes down to is Respect...***Aretha couldn't sing it enough*** If a guy is honestly respectful towards a girl, then she will usually go for him, yet you have to be aware of the ones that wear the mask. Are nice, sweet respectful in the beginning, then after awhile their true colors start to show. That's why, from what I have learned is that you must start a friendship with the person first. See what they are truly about. I've seen "bad boys" with sweet sides too, so it just basically comes down to the guy, and the point they are at in their life. If they are young, many times they will just screw around, but then you find those few that actually want a real relationship.

I've been there Annie24...I've done the same thing your friend did, and in the end it hurt, but it's a lesson learned. Guy like something they can chase, and the same goes for girls. If a guy is even willing to sleep with you on the first date, then you know usually they are only in it for one thing. I agree with you Yahoo when you say women judge you on what you do, but men do it too...usually if a guy sleeps with a girl on the first date...what are the chances he will call her again?

I can understand where you are coming from shysoul, but at the same time i am a little cynical towards your comments, maybe it's because i've heard it all before, now i don't know you and i am not going to judge you because if you are honestly like you say you are...any girl would be lucky to have you in their life.

I have been in a relationship with a "bad boy" well a relationship with my definition of a bad boy. I think there are different degrees, there are just the selfish, im gonna get mine type, and then there are the ones who are selfish, manipulative, abusive, rude, don't keep their word etc. you get my point, my ex fit into the serious bad boy. The thing with him was, i actually learned a lot. It really helped me learn to read people better, and watch for the manipulation. when before him, i was so oblivious to the fact they they were walkin all over me, by the time i realized what happened they were already out the door, preying on some other vulnerable girl.

So either way, i know i will never date a "bad boy" again, but at this point in my life i am glad i went through what i did (minus the abuse) with the ex, because it helped me realize what i really want out of a relationship, and if they aren't going to give 100% then i just don't waste my time anymore...

I don't understand why people keep talking like there is no medium between a "bad boy" and a "nice guy".

Also, from my own EXPERIENCE, I've learned that women (in varying degrees) are the epitome of oxymoron. They expect a lot, but have no idea what they want. I've learned this by actually dating women, not just being friends w/ them.

I have to agree w/ yahoo. If you never had a girlfriend/boyfriend, you can't give advice about it. It's something you have to experience yourself.

Also, I believe that looks are not everything but they are definitely something. I don't buy it for a minute, and any straight man with a pen15 can look at a women and not think about "the physical" first. Looks are the first thing you see. Granted, I've met many hot girls who turned out to be repulsive once I got to talk to them.

Just because this is my mentality, doesn't mean I am an animal. I have girls as friends who I am not physically attracted to, however they are great girls. But since we are talking about dating, part of dating is having a physical relationship. And to have a physical relationship w/ someone, there has to be a physical attraction first. Which is just as important as a mental attraction.

Girls may say they want a nice guy when they read the description on a website, however, being 100% nice and loving to anyone is completely out of balance. If you are nice to a woman all the time, no matter what, then what make it "good" . In order to appreciate "good" you have to see "bad". It's called a balanced and healthy relationship.

The girl I dated for 2 1/2 years wasn't great and kind 100% of the time. We had many bad time & many good times.

YIN-YANG

Okay, some specific definitions are in order.

Nice guy = Bad is not what I mean, and not the point.

Women like nice guys just fine. However, dating is very different than being just friends with a nice guy. Women befriend many guys who they will not date.

Generally, the longer you are in the "friends" zone with women, the harder it is for them to consider you a boyfriend.

The problem is, most nice guys are inexperienced with women. They think, "I'll just treat her extra nice, which is what she says she wants, and she'll be mine!"

Strangely, attentiveness, punctuality, and consideration are some behaviors that tend to bore a lot of women. (Remember, judge what they do, NOT what they say). They think that the guy doesn't have any other prospects if he is TOO attentive and available. If he seems overeager, it is a turnoff. If he calls too much, another turnoff.

Declaring you'll wait for a girl (while she is dating other guys) is pretty much the kiss of death. It implies she can ignore you (sexually) while she cats around herself. That's "nice guy" behavior, which is distinct from being nice to someone. "Nice guys" tend to repress their sexuality to avoid offending the women they are with.

Bad boy behavior that women find attractive?

Confidence, unpredictability, NOT boring, spontaneous, experienced, and willing to make no bones about their sexual interest in a woman. They don't give a rip about gaining her approval. In fact, it looks like they just don't care.

THAT's the main thing-really, truly having a lot of other women available who would love to go on a date with you. Women can smell fake confidence and fake bad boy behavior a mile away. You've got to really know how to apply it and mean it, or they'll figure it out on a date.

"NICE GUY" = UNCERTAINTY, INEXPERIENCE. CLINGY, FIXATED, DESPERATE

You might state you don't do any of those things, yet you are labeled a "nice guy." However, is that your perception of how you behave or the woman's? She doesn't necessarily see things the way you do, and some of your behavior may strike them as being in the capitalized categories listed above.

If you have tried to date a lot of women that befriended you instead of making you a boyfriend, then you might be exhibiting nice guy behavior.

Poor success at dating means you are either a total jerk or, worse yet, perceived as a "nice guy." The sad part is that total jerks have more success at dating than the "nice guy".

How to avoid "nice guy" behavior? Date many women. Observe what they react positively to and the games they play. Respond appropriately.

The more women you date and the more experience you have with their tests the better catch you'll be, because you know how to act around women.

There is no substitute for dating experience. None whatsoever. Theorizing is not adequate. You've got to attend the school of hard knocks to get good at it.

The successful man learns to eliminate the behaviors that turn women off that are attributed to "nice guys."

Notice I said nothing about treating women badly. There is never an excuse for that.

Declaring you'll wait for a girl (while she is dating other guys) is pretty much the kiss of death. It implies she can ignore you (sexually) while she cats around herself. That's "nice guy" behavior, which is distinct from being nice to someone. "Nice guys" tend to repress their sexuality to avoid offending the women they are with.

This doesn't sound like "nice guy" behaviour. I don't want to offend any guys who may have put themselves through this, but it seems very silly to wait around for a girl while she sleeps with other guys. Of course I could understand the hope of getting together with her at some point, but actually fixating yourself on the idea of being with her, and taking yourself out of the dating game just to stand by her seems a bit desperate -- and asking to be taken advantage of.

Most women will not intentionally take advantage of you, but understand that most of us love having guy friends. Half the time we don't even KNOW how into us you are because you're not aggressive enough. And, by "aggressive", I don't mean forceful or crude. I use this term to describe a clear indication that you are INTERESTED by your speech, body language, and general behaviour. If you don't want to become "the buddy", then it's a good idea to let her know from the start that you think she's HOT, and that you're interested in more than her friendship.

Of course people will walk all over you if you allow it. Not everyone, but I'm guessing that there are more people who are totally unaware of themselves and how their actions affect others, than people who truly stop and think about everyone else before themselves. This is not a new concept. Don't complain that you're the "nice guy" who is overlooked, especially when you set yourself up for disappointment in the first place (if you stick around waiting for a woman to magically *notice you*).

Bad boy behavior that women find attractive?

Confidence, unpredictability, NOT boring, spontaneous, experienced, and willing to make no bones about their sexual interest in a woman. They don't give a rip about gaining her approval. In fact, it looks like they just don't care.

This is also true in many cases, I won't deny it. Although, I think saying "it looks like they just don't care" might be a bit of an exaggeration.

The bottom line, is that nice guys get a raw deal in many cases. But, it's also important to remember that most women these days aren't interested in clingy, overly-emotional men. Showering romantic gestures, confessions of love, and too many sentimental expressions of emotion, too early, are all deal-breakers.

Come to think of it, OceanEyes has a point, if your interested in a woman its very important that you let her know up front that shes "HOT". I interperet this in just saying this in a playful way or saying im interested in you while smiling after talking with her for awhile. Then you could follow up with asking for the 7 digits or email to continue your conversation later. And it dosent mean you have to be vulgur or over the top. Just be a man and admit it, it also shows confidence in that your judging her.That way she cant say she didnt understand your intentions or thought you just liked being around her as a friend. You simply have to send a clear signal.

I know a girl that I honestly cant figure out because she will not initiate a conversation but dosent mind standing around close by to let me start one with her. She is not being aggressive if she does like me.

Of course before I use this advice Id first have to determine by the womans behavior in our short little conversation that she was open minded enough to take it as a compliment(and not sexual harrasment). And also if you see someone your interested in its best to start a conversation with her in the first place and not assume that she will magically notice or come up to you. She may have not noticed you until you showed interest.

Hey, im thinking of all the women my age that i meet in my daily travels that i could try this on....Like the girl at the jetski store that took my boat in for repair...I had a great conversation about her preferences in boats.

Thanks OceanEyes!

I think because they thought they could change you, or saw you as a challenge, or both!

Bingo! Having gone through this dysfunctional stage myself, I believe that young women fall for unattainable guys because we think if we can turn a frog (bad boy) into a prince, it means we're beautiful & worth loving. Girls are brainwashed to believe that love has to be difficult (like it is in romance novels, fairy tales, and movies) and challenging to be the "real deal," so when the nice guy shows up and just hands over everything we want, we honestly don't know what to do with him. We think this can't be love, because there's no "challenge" to overcome. There's no struggle! There's no heat! There's no passion! Sick isn't it?

This whole thing is more about female vanity and self-esteem than it is about the "challenge" (male concept) itself. Inevitably after kissing a few frogs, we realize a frog is a frog and decide it's much more easy and fun to date a prince in the first place.

Inevitably after kissing a few frogs, we realize a frog is a frog and decide it's much more easy and fun to date a prince in the first place.

I love the analogy, and a great image as well. What you said about being brainwashed into believing love is difficult is true. Love shouldn't be anything that needs to be worked on, it shouldn't be challenging. It should be the calm that shields us from all the violent storms in life. People make things far more difficult on themselves then it needs to be. Be yourself, don't worry about being anything else or following any "rules." Don't expect a catch, even though life has taught you to expect one. Love is not a challenge, its something that should just be embraced. And then you get true passion, stemming from the connecting and love between the two people.

But, it's also important to remember that most women these days aren't interested in clingy, overly-emotional men. Showering romantic gestures, confessions of love, and too many sentimental expressions of emotion, too early, are all deal-breakers.

Thing is, nice guys aren't like that. If people hear the words "nice guy" and think that then they don't really understand what a nice guy is. A nice guy doesn't give showering romantic gestures, he does the little things that shows how much he cares. He saves the big stuff for truly special occasions, once a firm relationship is in place. He is the guy who will remember some small detail that you mentioned once in a conversation the first night you talked. He's the guy that just doesn't buy roses but remembers to get your favorite flower. He's the guy that will call the next morning, not following any of this wait a few days nonsense, just to say hi and say he had a great time. None of these things are overwhelming or dramatic, but they are sweet and show he is thinking of her.

A nice guy knows not to overload his feelings on someone, but he won't intentionally hold his feelings back either. He goes with the flow of the relationship, expessing how he feels when the time is right. He has confidence, isn't boring, and can be a thousand times more adventurous then most give them credit for. He doesn't seek someone's approval, he is nice for no other reason then to be nice. He doesn't care if he gets something out of it, he doesn't care if she likes him more because of it. As long as it makes her smile, then thats all he is really after.

As far as sexual interest, sex is more mental and emotional then it is physical. The physical plays a role, but it is by no means the most important factor. If your looking at women and seeing their appearance, start thinking with your big head more. Look at who they really are inside. Yes, letting someone know you find them physically attractive is nice, but more importantly let them know that they are an attractive PERSON, not just an attractive BODY. Personally, I would be insulted if someone told me I looked "hot." My body is not the real me, look deeper. Any notice of the physical is nothing more then a brief superficial glance. There's no substance behind it. A true nice guy knows this and focuses on touching the hearts. Once the heart falls for someone and you like them for who they are inside, their appearance naturally becomes more attractive. And a true nice guy will also make sure she feels beautiful, both inside and out.

shysoul....couldn't of said it better myself. I feel no matter what the other people may say on here...that you are absolutely right!

Shysoul,

I may not believe that being 'nice' is the way to be, but i do admire your confidence and your passion. I think these qualities separate you from a stereotypical nice guy.

I think some girls are, but I also think part of the reason is "bad guys" also tend to be more bold. You wouldn't believe how many "nice" guys sit and complain that no girls like them because they expect the girl to ask them out or make it really obvious that there attracted to them (like in those bad teen movies). Unfortunatley I too held this belief until not too long ago, but ultimately I suppose that girls only get to pick from the guys that actually ask them out, and more often then not, these guys aren't the "nice" ones.

Well said ... Superfreak. Till the society really changes and girls start asking out (not gonna happen in the near future), the poor girl has to pick out from the pool of guys that ask them out. The shy guys need to build their confidence level and start asking girls out ... after all dating is a numbers game.

SugarSweetness,

Thanks, I needed to hear that. I know you said you've had bad experiences in the past where you've heard this from someone before and it didn't turn out right. But don't let that get you down. There are real nice guys out there looking for girls just like you.

pchellak,

That's exactly what I've been trying to get accross for months now, this whole idea of needing to be a "bad boy" and how being "nice" is not the way to go...it's all based off of inaccurate stereotypes. The stereotypical nice guy that everyone seems to have at mind isn't what I've referred to as a "real nice guy." I've never disbuted that women do not like overemotional, overbearing, clingy guys who are always trying to do things for her. But women also don't want someone detached who doesn't care what she thinks about them and who intentionally plays games or ignores her as bad boys are apt to do. Women are not bored with attentiveness, punctuality, and consideration... they are good things.

The true nice guy is all of these things. He is gentle, romantic, and caring. He does little things to show he cares and thinks about her. He tells her she is beautiful inside and out. He is confident and can be every bit as spontaneous and unpredictable. He doesn't allow someone to take advantage of him or to walk all over him. Too many people assume that a nice guy doesn't have confidence and is whimpy. They also assume that "bad boys" have lots of confidence and are strong. More often then not those definitions should be reversed.

While I agree that shy guys should do more asking, its not that simple. You can't just tell someone to get over their shyness and ask a girl out. There are probably good reasons why the guy is afraid to ask. For all you know he could have had a rough childhood and never felt much in the way of love or friendship. Thus asking a girl out is taking a huge leap and really setting yourself up to hurt if she doesn't say yes. A lot of shy people just don't have many friends, and there is nothing wrong with that. They prefer one or two close friends, not because of a lack of confidence but because its just who they are. They may have alot of confidence in themselves and be perfectly fine with the way they are, they just aren't comfortable opening up and letting someone else in... preferring to only share themselves with a select few.

And I still don't think dating is a numbers game. The point of dating is to find someone with whom you can have a real relationship with and hopefully spend the rest of your life with. Some people may need to go through 100 dates to find someone, another only 20, another just 1. More dates may appear to increase the odds on the surface, but that isn't necessarily the case.

So - I was thinking about this. The whole reason us girls get hung up on bad boys early in our dating lives because they are the ones with the confidence/arrogance and they have the guts to walk up to a girl and ask her out. We are drawn to their confident attitude, and we worship them. In the meantime, the "nice guys" are still developing their confidence and maybe haven't worked up the guts to ask the girl they like out.

For example, this one guy I was friends with all through high school, finally told me on graduation day that he had feelings for me for the last 4 years. Err.... he could have told me earlier!

The whole reason us girls get hung up on bad boys early in our dating lives because they are the ones with the confidence/arrogance and they have the guts to walk up to a girl and ask her out.

I've heard this statement many times and it just isn't true. How do I know this? I myself was turned down a couple of times in highschool because I was "cute," but not their "type." Guess who WAS their type...

However, I'm not saying everything about me was irresistible except I wasn't a bad boy. There were other factors involved, but it had nothing to do with having the "guts" to ask girls out because I did just that. I know of many guys who were conventionally nice, but didn't have too much of a problem atleast "asking" for a date. I think more than anything bad boys usually have "status" and that can be quite powerful. That and they usually didn't care if things didn't work out because they'd just move on to the next insecure girl who would put up with their treatment.

The guys had confidence, if you haven't had a gf don't talk about how its not about confidence, ask a girl they think it's very attractive. First if you barely knew the girls (1) and you were like VERY good friends(2)..not this say hi in the halls crap, ask questions about hw(1) I mean like hang out and stuff, good times, laughing a LOT,(2) then of course their chances are better than if you hung out with them then just saying hi in the halls if you just had a class with her for example like last quarter. Ok, I think the girls you asked were obviously physically attractive to you right? You probably didn't know them very well (might be wrong but ok whatever). They could have been really shallow because their good looking and into themselves and just rejected you because you weren't good looking. If they cared about status and popularity for a bf you picked the wrong girls that's your fault. If you think about it, it's easier if you compare yourself (your physical attributes) to a girl that's attractive as yourself. That way they don't say "cute but not my type".

The reason why they rejected wasn't because you had confidence or something....if you knew them well you were probably too much of a friend, that never had guts to flirt with them/make a move like ask them out to dinner (ONCE YOUR FRIENDS IT ISN'T HARD!!! If she rejects screw her she stays a friend..big deal wasn't meant to be) You know there is worthless flirting, you can just use it once to test the waters. Mostly all girls flirt back though if you do (maybe it's just me but whatever).

You don't have to have confidence to ask someone out that's just having the will to do an mildly easy thing (starting up a conversation...if you can't do a simple question and 10 seconds of pain with a girl your a panzy). To have confidence is to feel a vibe about yourself, you look at yourself like wow I look good. When you are about to perform a task you don't have doubt in mind (I guess you can have some small amt.) you just do it and expect a certain outcome and you get it. That's confidence (if I explained that right....not great at explaining confidence).

MetallicAguy, you are taking my post the wrong way. I'm 28 y/o and have been around the block a few times to say the least, lol. My response was about the confident, yet arrogant and sometimes emotionally disturbed "bad boys." The ones that some girls they say grew out of later in life. I'm saying it wasn't that they had the guts to ask girls out, because they weren't the only ones. That's all I meant. It's plainly obvious why some girls liked them, and it wasn't all about "confidence."

Bad boy doesn't = confidence. Confidence can mean many different things, and bad boys weren't confident about "everything."

MetallicAguy, you are taking my post the wrong way. I'm 28 y/o and have been around the block a few times to say the least, lol. My response was about the confident, yet arrogant and sometimes emotionally disturbed "bad boys." The ones that some girls they say grew out of later in life. I'm saying it wasn't that they had the guts to ask girls out, because they weren't the only ones. That's all I meant. It's plainly obvious why some girls liked them, and it wasn't all about "confidence."

 

Bad boy doesn't = confidence. Confidence can mean many different things, and bad boys weren't confident about "everything."

I agree with this guy.