will he ever leave his wife and children for me?

I met my married man, Toby, more than three years ago at my job (I am a co*ktail waitress), and we immediately hit it off. very soon after we met, we went on a weekend trip to Utah where we climbed mountains, dived together and had a blast... I found it strange that his phone kept ringing and he would not pick up, but when I confronted him about he said it was work...

he works close to where I live and he would come over to my apartment on his 3-hour long lunch breaks, and we would have a great time together... one night when I called his cell phone, a woman picked up and I asked to speak to Toby, she said "why do you want to speak to Toby? this is his wife." I did not know what to say and I hung up... 10 min later Toby called and said this was his roommate who he did not get along with... he said they used to date and she told all his girlfriends that she was his wife because she was jealous. later that night we met at a coffee shop and he confessed to me that he was married with two young children (7 & 12), but their relationship had been horrible for several years. they got married when they were 20 because she got pregnant, and 7 years ago after giving birth to a second child, she confessed that he (ironically named Tobias) was another man's baby...

Toby said they are only together because he could not afford to divorce her... from what I know, his parents hate her (she is Mexican), and she treats him horribly.

anyway, I learned about his marriage 3 years ago, and Toby and I are still having sex on a regular basis, going out at night, he even spends the night often: I do not know how he gets away with it. our relationship is great, I feel that he is "the one it seems that we can read each other's thoughts, that we are meant to be together. when I am with him, I feel like there is nothing more I could ask for.

however, I don't know how much longer I can live like this, I don't know if I can listen to him tell his wife "I love you" on the phone one more time while we are naked together, I don't know if I can take one more cancelled date because of family concerns.

I have asked him to divorce his wife if he wants our relationship to work--we both love each other and share a lot of precious memories together. he says that he would like to, but he is waiting to secure a promotion at his job. he says he doesn't love his wife, and I believe him because he spends more time with me than he does with his wife, we go together to dinners, concerts, and vacations... we even spend last Christmas together, and I know many of his friends and vice versa.

how can I make him leave? I cannot live without him, but I do not want to share him with someone else anymore...

The guy has his family and his mistress… you aren't going to be able to get him to walk away from that. He has everything he wants right now. I just can't see how anyone could see themselves with someone who has proven to be unfaithful and untrustworthy. It's just baffling to me.

he is not that way, Nifty_Swifty... his wife is the one who cheated on him initially: before then he was totally committed to her, but after she gave birth to someone else's child (whom he has accepted as his own) he could never ever have feelings for her again. he said that he tried to cheat on her for revenge bt he couldn't even get an erection with another girl initially because he used to care for his wife so much...

his marriage is a torture, and I know that he will be fine financially with my help (I am graduating with a Master's in Bioengineering next year)... you don't understand, we are perfect for each other, and he even said that he would never cheat on me if I was his wife.

ok casey baby - here's how it is. You need to stop this now!!! Right now. You deserve a relationship with a man who's 100% available for you. It doesn't matter if his wife is horrible. That's the #1 line in the book. The #2 line is that he plans on leaving her as soon as .... whatever. Fill in the blanks. These are the oldest lines in the book. You just do a little search on here - there are literally hundreds of men and women whose lovers have said the same thing to them!

There are sooo many reasons why you shouldn't be dating a married man. Say for example, he actually does leave his wife for you. You'll have to have a relationship with his kids. They probably wouldn't like you too much in the first place, being a stepmom, but having broken up their parents' marriage..... they will hate you and they will do everything in your power to break you up. Trust me, I've seen 2nd marriages that have been broken up because of adult children.

Actually, 1st marriages tend to break up over money. 2nd marriages, over family.

Next, none of your gfs will trust you around their bfs and husbands. Because you're a homewrecker.

this isn't a relationship where you can be out in the open. he can't be with you on valentine's day, christmas, or his wife's birthday. All you get are scraps of time.

If he is really into you, tell him, you won't have a relationship with him until he is divorced. Don't you think you deserve a relationship with a man who can be devoted to you? Don't you think you deserve it?

Besides, he's not going to leave unless he has a good reason to. Like nifty said, he's having his cake right now and eating it too. Why should he change things?

Honey - it's time that you saw that you deserve more for yourself. Not scraps of time, hidden in shame.

he is not that way, Nifty_Swifty... his wife is the one who cheated on him initially: before then he was totally committed to her, but after she gave birth to someone else's child (whom he has accepted as his own) he could never ever have feelings for her again. he said that he tried to cheat on her for revenge bt he couldn't even get an erection with another girl initially because he used to care for his wife so much...

 

his marriage is a torture, and I know that he will be fine financially with my help (I am graduating with a Master's in Bioengineering next year)... you don't understand, we are perfect for each other, and he even said that he would never cheat on me if I was his wife.

Ummm... Hello! He's cheating on his wife!!! What makes you think he wouldn't cheat on you. Even your grandmother could tell you that!

As the saying goes, "Any man that cheats on his wife will also cheat on his mistress...."

I have tried to leave him, I have even tried to start other relationships, but I would much rather spend my time with him... I feel that the relationship that he and I have is of above average quality because we are ecstatic together, we have never had a fight about anything, and we truly bring out the best in each other... my girlfriends have actually told me that they wish they could meet someone that great (and yes, they know about his living arrangement).

I never sought to be involved with a married man, but it just happened so that Toby is the one I want to spend the rest of my life with.

yes--he won't leave without a reason: I have been wanting to call his wife and tell her everything, and hopefully she will ask him to leave... but I am fearful that he might end up resenting me if I do this.

yes.... yes he will resent you if you do that.

I'm serious - your only hope is to SERIOUSLY put your foot down. Tell him, "No more! I want an honest relationship!" It does sound like you have a special connection - I believe you. it's just, he has no incentive to leave his wife unless you put your foot down. If he doesn't leave her, then you will move on and never look back. That's the way it has to be.

And if he doesn't, then don't worry. he's married - taken. let his wife deal with his crap. You're a smart girl, obviously, MS in engineering. You've got a lot going for you. Don't let this cheater with 2 kids hold you back.

thank you for your advice, Annie. I never thought I would find myself in this situation... I cry myself to sleep every night because I cannot be with him, and at the same time I am scared of what will happen if he does live his wife.

it seems that i am lying to myself, that I am forcing myself to believe that things will be just fine... that my parents (and his) will accept our relationship and be happy for our bliss, that his wife will keep out of our life, that despite child support payments we can start a family together, that he will get a vasectomy reversal so I can have his children...

sometimes I wish I could move to a different city and forget everything about him (I am not proud of the past three years), but if one day goes by without me hearing from him, I cannot function at all...

I know honey. I know. i sympathize. But, you really have to pull together all your strength and leave this man. 3 years. wow. That's a long time to devote with no payoff. Of course your families will not accept your relationship unless it's done right.

Look, you're smart, you've got so much going for you. I truly truly do think you deserve a man who can love you openly and honestly. I think you need to find the strength to leave him. you will not fall apart. You were fine before you met him, and you'll be fine afterwards.

Casey...Casey...Casey...Its always so much more exciting when your lover is married. He is having all of the fun and you and the wife are being emotionally knocked off balance. My guess is his wife has no idea that he is unhappy in the relationship, and truthfully men rarely leave their wives for their mistresses. In your heart you know this thing is doomed. Save yourself for someone deserving, before your self-esteem is compromised any further.[/b]

if one day goes by without me hearing from him, I cannot function at all...

Even married couples do not go through this. Clearly you have some emotional dysfunction that needs addressed.

Consider the facts: You said you want to break up his marriage and the family his two children have - no matter how crappy it might be. You're not thinking correctly.

As a student, you should have free or low-cost counselling available on campus. Please go. Get your head screwed on right and afterwards I promise you can find a fulfilling relationship. Don't screw up someone elses family because of your dysfunction.

lovelynns, it hurts when you say that. I get scared when I don't hear from him because he commutes on a motocycle, and I know I will be the last one to learn if he is in an accident and anything bad ever happens to him... I am sure you would feel the same way when it comes down to your partner's well-being.

I have gone to counseling at my school, both to a psychologist and a psychiatrist (I am currently taking SSRIs), but I feel that I am being judged by these married women.

as to breaking up his marriage--he says that there is virtually no marriage relationship between the two of them... I don't think he ever spends any time with his children as is because the two of us are always together; anyway, he's been reluctant to discuss this subject with me.

sometimes I yearn to leave him, but I feel that I will spend the rest of my life wishing that he was by my side...

You know.. the bottom line is that if he is so miserable with a wife who cheated on him ( had a kid from someone else) and they don't spend anytime together.. WHY IS HE STILL THERE? Does he not have any pride, any dignity? What man would allow that ? Someone who would take things lying down and even when he has found true love ( as you feel) would rather stay in hell than give that love a chance ? and this is the man you want for yourself?

Honey it does not sound as if he is as committed to you as you are to him.

You are cheating yourself if you continue to wait for someone who obviously does not want to change a thing. How many more years are you willing to wait and see if she leaves him--or dies ( have you wished that yet? some do )

lovelynns, it hurts when you say that. I get scared when I don't hear from him because he commutes on a motocycle, and I know I will be the last one to learn if he is in an accident and anything bad ever happens to him...

Do you think it's possible that this is an excuse? I think it is a valid point, but that isn't what you originally said. You said, "if I do not hear from him I cannot function at all". Think carefully what you said.

I have gone to counseling at my school, both to a psychologist and a psychiatrist (I am currently taking SSRIs), but I feel that I am being judged by these married women.

You should continue to go, especially since you're on antidepressants. Dysfunction isn't a dirty word. We all have our own dysfunctions. Just accept that you've got to deal with it to live a fulfilling life and then work at it. It's a lot of hard work, but anything worth anything always is.

I find your comment about being judged interesting. People feel judged when they feel guilty. Do you feel guilty when you're talking to the pros?

as to breaking up his marriage--he says that there is virtually no marriage relationship between the two of them...

Stop right there. Is he married? yes. Then would you be breaking up a marriage? Yes. That's it, that's all, end of story. The quality of the marriage doesn't matter, and you really don't know anyway. He lied and told you he wasn't married before. Isn't it possible he could be lying about this too -- just to keep you around?

You deserve better -- you deserve to get healthy. Choose that path.

muneca: I would never wish that someone died, I would never even wish anybody to be in my situation. I have actually met his wife (I was a music major for my undergraduate studies and Toby took her to a couple of my concerts: she was clueless about our relationship) and she seemed to be an intelligent and confident woman who just made one serious mistake in her past. I think that she knows Toby has someone else and has suggested divorce before, I have even heard her threaten with it on the phone while Toby and I were together.

lovelynns, you are right, I could come up with countless excuses... of course I feel guilty, I am technically "the other woman" after all. he too wants to leave, but cannot afford the legal fees and financial consequences, he is also afraid that because his wife does not earn much money here she will take the children to her family in Mexico. things will be very different when the day comes when I can afford to support him.

I am technically "the other woman" after all.

Nothing technical about it - you are the other woman. It's important to realize.

he too wants to leave, but cannot afford the legal fees and financial consequences

Well, the fact that you believe this line despite being told over and over again that is is THE line that married cheaters use leads me to believe that you didn't come here for help, you came here for reassurance. Ivern Ball said it best: Most of us ask for advice when we know the answer but we want a different one.

things will be very different when the day comes when I can afford to support him.

Yes, they will. It saddens me to know that they'll be different in a MUCH different way than you think.

I have to say I disagree with these last comments. I don't believe that a marriage can be broken from the outside.... usually it is already broken from the inside before an outside person is ever involved.

Like Nifty said, he won't leave unless he wants to. Why would he want to if he has it all?

...and that is what you must do in order to have him, Let him know you will not accept this situation any longer. If he truly loves you he won't want to lose you... Do you trust the love he says he has for you? Do you trust him?

...you need to be prepared to walk away if he says " I will not divorce my wife", and that is where you aren't strong enough yet.

You are still placing him above your own happiness. If you were happy you wouldn't be posting...right? So please continue with therapy so that you can resolve your own issues, get back your confidence and love yourself again.

I suggest you look around this Infidelity forum a bit. This is not a "unique" situation you are in and others who have come before you have received great advice and some of them finally decided that they deserved better than what they were getting and moved on.

Your situation is not one I wish on any woman...remember who you are.

I have to say I disagree with these last comments. I don't believe that a marriage can be broken from the outside.... usually it is already broken from the inside before an outside person is ever involved.

I understand your sentiment, but I was trying to point out to the OP how wishing this on somebody is, at its core, a dysfunctional thing. I have a hope that the OP is wanting to do the healthy thing, that's why I addressed that issue as I did.

Toby took her to a couple of my concerts... and has suggested divorce before.

Ah I posted as you typed your response.

I would have been insulted if he took his wife ( who he is with because he has to be) to your ( the woman he loves) concert. Yikes! Sounds a bit egotistical to me. Why would he do that?

Honestly from the looks of it.. your future together depends on her--2/3 of all divorces are initiated by women in this country. Which might suggest that although miserable, the husband will stay in the marriage.

Honey, when you are getting out of hell, money is not that important--you resolve that you will make do with what you have as long as you are happy... and if you have someone else already waiting for you ( and who will help financially) then why hold back?

It looks like most of us agree: He is not likely to leave his wife and kids for you... unless he WANTS to. Does he want to?

Well.....It's been 3 years.

he has seriously considered leaving, and we have discussed it. he has told me that he wants to leave, and all of his friends and colleagues know that as well... this is the reason I am posting here: I want him to make a decision, what can I do to help him make the right one?

Do you think you can trust him when he is your husband?

I have already told you what I think.. He will leave if you are ready to walk away from him if he doesn't.

Can you do that?

Ditto to what Muneca said. There's a lot of people who are willing to commit once they see that they may lose the person they love. It's the only thing that will work, if anything will. Because, as you can see, playing the part-time gf for the last 3 years hasn't done it (made him leave his wife).

I do to help him make the right one?

Be honest with youself, please. You don't want him to make the "right" decision. You want him to be with you. Whether that's right or wrong for him and his family and kids.

You've already been told what you need to do. You need to stop seeing him. Tell him this. Tell him you would love to be with him -- when he's available. Then, stick to it.

He will do one of 3 things:

1) He will not tell his wife, forget about you and find a new mistress.

2) He will fess up to his wife, who will kick his butt and he will forget about you.

3) He will tell his wife, they will get divorced, and 2 years later when it's final you can be with him.

I have listed these options in the order of liklihood, from most to least.

You had considered calling his wife as an option. Here is someone else's experience with that. [link removed I called his wife about the affair... Just to give yourself and idea of what could happen. It's not always a happy ending. Some men might come after the gf because she disrupted his family life. Ugh!

Also, right now your relationship is very exciting... but what about the future? Here is another members experience when faced with the possibility of a future with her married man. [link removed CHEATED ON HER TO BE W/ME, NOW WHAT???

Just thought you could read these and learn something. They say the wise learn from other's experience...isn't that what they say? 8)

I feel that the relationship that he and I have is of above average quality because we are ecstatic together, we have never had a fight about anything, and we truly bring out the best in each other...

Contrary to popular belief, arguments are not always a bad thing. They can often help you learn a lot about a person, by how they argue, whether or not they fight fair, etc. Don't assume that everything is peachy just because you can get along. This means nothing. Extremely happy and passionate couples will admit that they argue from time to time.

Aside from that, you must also consider that there wouldn't be any reason for arguments unless YOU initiate them. After all, what's he got to be mad at you for? Ultimately, you provide him with no-strings-attached sex, intimacy, and a 'shoulder' to cry on whenever, however, and wherever he desires it. Seems like a perfect situation for him.

I don't believe that you will take the advice given here. Truthfully, I think that most people - women especially - will learn things their own way (which is usually the hard way). You know that what you're doing is wrong, and from where I'm standing, a bit desperate, so it doesn't make much sense to give lectures on things you already know.

Muneca made an excellent point when she said this:

You know.. the bottom line is that if he is so miserable with a wife who cheated on him ( had a kid from someone else) and they don't spend anytime together.. WHY IS HE STILL THERE? Does he not have any pride, any dignity? What man would allow that ?

This is very important to consider. To me, a real man will do what's in his heart and not tip-toe around important issues because he's scared. He tells you that he's miserable, that there is no love left in his heart for his wife, yet he goes home to her almost every night. It can't - just CANNOT - be all that bad if he stays. No human being would stay in a situation they absolutely hated, it's just not natural.