white lies.

[reinventmyself]

I have a small issue with my guy. We have a very healthy relationship on all levels and outside of little natural annoyances, there is this one quality that bothers me at times.

 

I trust him. If I didn't, I wouldn't be in this relationship. It's not debatable.

 

He has a tendency to tell white lies and it seems to be always related to planning and scheduling and sparing peoples feelings.

 

Examples. His friends were coming into town for the weekend and wanted to see us both Friday and Saturday. S felt Saturday was more than enough and his knee jerk way of handling things is to tell a white lie. In this example, he said he and I had plans with my brothers family (not true) He could have easily said we were busy or unavailable. It's as if he's had so much experience conjuring up a white lie, with all it's details, it just comes too easy for him.

 

The other night his son was with him for hours and I was on my way over to his house after work. His son doesn't always know when to leave so his way of handling it is to tell me the plans had changed and he told his son he needed to help me fix garbage disposal at my house.

 

I get this is all about sparing the other persons feelings. I get that. I guess what bugs me is there have been several times he didn't need to tell a white lie, but it's his automatic default.

 

S said he was helping his friend mow his (massive) back yard, yesterday. Instead he was at my house assembling patio furniture and wanted to surprise me. Lucky me, right?

 

He does this enough, I am now catching myself 2nd guessing when he stumbles about his where about's. How easily is he telling a white lie to me? I'd be foolish to think I am an exception, though he'd like me to believe that.

 

I have told him once that this makes me uncomfortable, because it comes up often. He is good about when he does it to me, he will ultimately tell me the truth, but for me that just isn't a good enough arrangement.

 

I traveled south on the train to visit another office this morning. S loves to surf and I took pictures of the waves from the train. The cell reception is bad, he didn't respond like he typically would and I didn't give it too much thought. 3 hours later he text me and asked how my trip was. I asked if he got the pictures, he said yes he's at the gym. (now) All so innocent but I am second guessing him when I have no reason too. I hate that I am finding myself wondering where he was during those 3 hours and don't want to feel this way.

 

I feel I need to bring this up to him again, but at the same time this is who he is.

I put myself in his same situation and funny enough I have the same scheduling dilemmas and I don't feel I ever need to pull the white lie card.

[DancingFool]

Tough love.....

 

 

You are choosing to trust a pathological liar and you are doing an awful lot of excusing and spackling how this behavior is OK, it's just silly little white lies. Except that they aren't. One of the things about pathological liars is that not only can they not help themselves, but they do lie about completely stupid, easily found out things. Exactly the kind of daily nonsense that no sane person would even consider lying about. Unfortunately, they will also lie about serious, major things and you may never know. It also does erode trust in any relationship. You start out your post with "I trust him", but you end your post "I don't actually trust him." because the reality is that you can't trust him and shouldn't. You are wondering what he is lying about now and rightfully so. Btw, he is not lying to protect others, he is lying because he is disordered.

 

Of course you don't want to feel like you can't trust your SO, but you cannot trust a liar no matter how much you try to spackle over his behavior and excuse his lies. Your better inner sense is kicking you in the rear and you really should listen to it and ask yourself why are you accepting this kind of a relationship.

[SherrySher]

I don't consider that "white lies". I don't know why people use that term. Maybe to downplay it due to it being a smaller lie? But at the end of the day, it's a lie.

I don't like liars. I don't trust liars.

 

I understand about trying to spare people's feelings but at the same time there is a lot of respectability for someone who can just say how it is with no games or lies.

You don't need to say the truth in a harsh way. Like you said, he could have said things like.."we're not available right now". There is a way to be honest without hurting people.

 

I find people who lie like this do have questionable character. As you've said yourself, they find it too easy to lie or conquer up lies. It's like they don't even have a conscience about it anymore as they've gotten so used to doing it.

That's scary.

 

It does make the mind work overtime too. What's true, what's not true? How often does this person actually lie? How serious will their lies become?

These are all reasonable questions to ask yourself.

 

I too am like you, I don't ever feel the need to lie to people. I don't believe it's right and I don't think it's okay.

If someone asked me what I thought of their shirt and they liked it and I didn't find it too great, I would be honest. I would tell them that I didn't like it. Why lie?

Adults at the end of the day can handle the truth, they're not going to crumble to bits. And to be honest, if they still like the shirt and I don't, who cares? People are allowed to have a difference of opinion and no harm done.

 

I personally would have a major problem with his lying. I would try and talk to him about it. It truly is a matter of integrity. I also find it far more attractive for someone to always be honest and has a reputation as being honest as the day is long.

 

At the end of the day, it truly is up to you what you will and won't accept. But the lying would bother me and I wouldn't be able to look past it.

[reinventmyself]

Sorry, I.had to.laugh at the disorderd comment.

Normal healthy people tell white lies. It doesn't make them pathological or disordered.

 

He biggest fault is hes a people pleaser and doesn't want disappointment people.

 

I always respect your responses but this one is certainly heavy handed

[reinventmyself]

And I have to add in 18 months hes never done anything that would make me not trust his character.

 

I am suspicious by nature and not much gets past me.

 

This man has alot of integrity but it's the way he handles not wanting to disappoint people that irks me.

[SherrySher]

He biggest fault is hes a people pleaser and doesn't want disappointment people

 

Yeah, except I used to be one of those people who were a people pleaser and never wanted to hurt anyone's feelings or say no to people.

 

It was a flaw in me and a huge one. I had issues that I needed to deal with in order to not be that person anymore.

 

I can't say I ever lied like that though.

 

He doesn't need to be this way. It is a flaw and it is something that needs to be worked out. Lying is no good.

[reinventmyself]

Agreed.

 

I just hate that I have to talk to him about it again

[j.man]

Some people who tell lies like these will lie about bigger things. Some people who tell lies like these precisely because they are relatively inconsequential. I'm not sure I'd jump to the assumption he's lied about significant things, but it's a fair consideration. My first assumption would be either him being an excessive people pleaser or there being some kind of history contributing to him being timid. Up to you what your threshold is. I've never really had to deal with that as far as a romantic partner's habits go.

 

What raised my eyebrow the most was him just showing up in your backyard to put lawn furniture together. I understand the sentiment, but assuming you two aren't living together, that's a bit more liberal with my space than I prefer someone be.

[SherrySher]

I just hate that I have to talk to him about it again

 

I don't blame you. It's cringe worthy and there isn't any guarantee that you'll get anywhere.

 

Ugh, I wished that people didn't ever feel the need to lie. For me personally, it messes to much with my head. My ex husband was a liar and he lied about whatever, small things, big things. You didn't really know if the man was ever being honest.

 

That does my head in, and I can't deal. I would rather have a partner who I knew never felt a need to tell lies.

 

Even something as silly as the shirt I am wearing, does he like it or is he just saying he does to please me? I cannot stand those kind of head games. I'd rather he just tell me if it's not great or if he truly did like it.

[reinventmyself]

I was married to a pathological liar, heck I dated one after that, so I do know the difference.

This one does not lie about things that matter, if that makes sense. This I do know.

But it's a slippery slope either way and it's not how I operate and my tolerance for it is low.

[SherrySher]

my tolerance for it is low

 

Same.

 

I also have little patience now a days for lies no matter the reason. I don't like knowing if it's the truth or if it's a lie. If they are being straight with me or if they are just saying things to please me.

I also feel it hinders you from truly knowing them. Why? Because they don't actually tell you what their opinion might be or what they think, etc. They will tell you what you want to hear.

 

And my mind does work overtime. I would be wondering if what he told me was a lie or the truth and how big the lies will become.

 

I just don't have the energy for that stuff anymore.

[Starlight925]

I dated a compulsive white-lie teller for 2 1/2 years, so I completely get it. Like your guy, even the smallest of things, where the truth would actually be a better story.

 

And like you, I began to wonder if/when there would be bigger lies.

LSS: There weren't.

 

Here's the thing, though, and I think it's true in your case, as it was true in mine: These guys aren't telling white lies to spare people's feelings, or to be people pleasers. They are telling white lies to protect themselves, and protect themselves only.

 

Your BF crafts an albeit minor, but somewhat elaborate tale of something he's doing at your house instead of telling the person the truth: he simply doesn't want to do something with them. He's not trying to spare their feelings; he's making sure they have no way to come back at him.

 

It's weak. I don't think this makes him a weak person, but it's a weak action.

 

We say all the time here, that "No" is a complete sentence. Except we hear all the time, how people come back from "No" to "Well then how about Sunday instead? How about afternoon instead of evening? How about x, y, or z?" So, your boyfriend creates this white lie web, where there is no way the person can come back. He creates it so there are no ways for someone to poke a hole in his story.

 

It doesn't make him a bad guy. In my case, the white lies never manifested into anything larger. Never. And they were not the reason we broke up.

 

And like in your case, I told my guy repeatedly that I'd rather have the truth, but unfortunately, a compulsive liar is a compulsive liar. I didn't like it, and I don't suspect you do either, but I don't think this is character flaw bad, as in, this will lead to cheating/infidelity/etc., but rather a continuation of white lies that will not stop unless he gets professional help.

 

I do think that this is worthy of couples therapy, as he needs to hear this from a third party who is trained to explain the trust damage this does.

[itsallgrand]

So you've told him it makes you uncomfortable. And he continues to do it. So it's not that big a priority for him to change this.

 

Now it's your call. How important is it to you that you be with someone who does not lie regularly? What are you willing to do... or will you choose to tolerate it?

 

I dated someone briefly who I caught making silly lies to others and to me. I was to the point " if you continue to lie, this won't work." . It ended soon after, because being truthful was obviously not that big a priority for him.

 

It really depends how important this is to you.

[reinventmyself]

So you've told him it makes you uncomfortable. And he continues to do it. So it's not that big a priority for him to change this.

 

.

 

I mentioned it once, over a year ago.

[itsallgrand]

I mentioned it once, over a year ago.

 

What did he say at that time?

[DancingFool]

Of course perfectly normal sane people will tell white lies on occasion. The difference is that you are describing an ongoing consistent pattern of behavior where yes, these lies roll out of his mouth as natural as breathing. This is happening to the point where it's affecting your ability to trust him and that's not a good feeling to say the least. You are now playing the game of is he lying, is it serious, to what extent, would he lie about more serious things? You are hoping that he wouldn't, but you don't know. As LGH pointed out, this type of lying has nothing to do with sparing other people's feelings, it's all about himself and yes, his internal disordered thinking that lying is easier on him personally. Date long enough and small lies will turn into big ones. It might not happen in the first few years or even five or more, but I guarantee you it will happen, because life happens and his way of dealing is to lie. You can talk to him until you are blue in the face, but you aren't going to fix him.

 

You have a pattern of dating pathological liars? I hate to tell you this but you are involved with yet another. He might not be as extreme as your previous relationships, but.... Don't keep repeating your patterns because less than or not as bad as is still not good enough and still a pattern. What attracts you or rather why do you seek to excuse this behavior?

[reinventmyself]

again with the pathological. . .yikes

 

He lives his life with integrity. He doesn't need to lie about anything because he conducts his life honorably. There isn't anything to lie about.

There is one, only one exception to this and every single time it's about scheduling or planning something he would rather not do.

 

He can't just say no. It's not in him to do so. It's easier for his conscience or forgo discomfort or what ever it is that motivates him (albeit misguided) that he come up with a fabricated reason why he can't.

[reinventmyself]

https://www-psychologytoday-com.cdn.ampproject.org/v/s/www.psychologytoday.com/us/blog/media-spotlight/201707/telling-little-white-lies?amp_js_v=a2&amp_gsa=1&amp&usqp=mq331AQCCAE%3D#referrer=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.google.com&amp_tf=From%20%251%24s&ampshare=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.psychologytoday.com%2Fus%2Fblog%2Fmedia-spotlight%2F201707%2Ftelling-little-white-lies

Thanks for everyone input. With that, I'll sign off on this one

[Batya33]

This reminds me of a Facebook post I saw the other day on my moms group how we tell our children to be truthful but we lie about the tooth fairy, about where their pacifier went, etc etc. I think it depends. I expect people have told me white lies to spare my feelings and I have done the same. I think it depends on the friendship/relationship - I have friends who are very blunt/direct and want me to do the same with them. And it would be wrong of me to then tell a white lie. But yes, I will say what is true meaning "I don't think my opinion is relevant here"- because no I don't think I'm required to either voice my true feelings OR white lie. I can choose not to go there in the first place.

And yes there are gray areas with white lies too. A friend asked me to go to the theater with her next month. There are 2 truths. Truth no. 1 - it sounds like a lot of fun! Truth no. 2 - it sounds like it will take a lot of effort to actually implement -to get my husband to stay with our son at that particular time, to be able to juggle what I usually get done at that time, to make sure my husband is available, etc. So I am of two minds. I don't think I need to tell her all of that so I simply said "I would love to and I'm not sure I can because of child care". I "can" arrange for my husband to be available and I am not in the mood to share with this friend that it might not be worth the effort since there may be other times I need him to be available even more.

 

Another time I actually did tell the truth to a stranger instead of an easy white lie. I'd been invited to go to a monthly movie club with a group of women. One woman in particular was supposed to go and I wanted to get to know her better. She bowed out and then I received an email from the only woman who could make it "I can make it but my husband will be with me but that's ok right?" And I decided to tell her that no, I wasn't actually comfortable with that -I put it diplomatically but I did tell her. And as it turned out I couldn't have gone anyway because of a child care issue. i share this because it was NOT easy to be that direct with a stranger, a woman I might see in the future at this movie club. But I actually wanted her to know that inviting her husband was not ok for a women's movie club especially since I'd be the only other person going.

 

Sorry if this was TMI -the white lie issue is a tough one for me.

[Jibralta]

And I have to add in 18 months hes never done anything that would make me not trust his character.

 

I am suspicious by nature and not much gets past me.

 

This man has alot of integrity but it's the way he handles not wanting to disappoint people that irks me.

 

Wow, I think this summarizes the situation beautifully^

 

I bet his minor dishonesties trigger your suspicious nature sometimes.

 

Question: does the way that he handle other people actually harm you? Or does it just annoy you?

 

If it just annoys you and he is otherwise an awesome partner, let it go.

 

I know you are going through some stressful situations right now, and that you have some ahead of you. I find that when I have a lot of stress in one area of my life, it tends to exaggerate stress in other areas of my life.

 

I wouldn't make any fast moves. Personally, I don't think it's even worth talking with him about it because it's just his coping mechanism and it's not hurting anyone. It's just annoying you for some reason.

 

I'd sit back and wait until the stressful events pass, then I would reevaluate.

[maew]

Lying is lying whether it's big or small and each time a person lies it diminishes trust in a relationship... whether it's a little at a time or all at once with a big whopper. It's understandable that it makes you uncomfortable... intimacy, trust and security is very difficult with someone that feels they have to tell lies to avoid conflict or hurting others.

 

At the end of the day it appears to be making you more and more uncomfortable as time goes on... and you know as well as anyone else that you can talk to him about it until you are blue in the face but unless he is willing to change it, you will either need to accept it or make some tough decisions about the relationship.

[thornz]

I don't understand why you would try and talk to him about this.

 

He's a liar, it's part of who is, accept it or move on. If he wanted to change he would do so.

 

I also don't think it's possible to trust a liar. I overheard my ex tell one "white" lie very early in our dating. It was totally inconsequential in reality but it's effect on my perception of him was profound. I could never get out of my head that he would likely lie to me. That one lie led me to question many of our interactions and ultimately I never trusted him 100%.

[Batya33]

I don't think white lies for the purpose of saving someone's feelings are the same as lying or have the same effect on trust, etc - meaning it should not IMO. -- I think it depends on the frequency, intention, whether it's to everyone or to a particular person (meaning is the typical recipient of the white lie someone who is particularly fragile or vulnerable?). I would find it irksome if a person's MO was to tell white lies by default so that he never had to say "no" - because at some point that's not about protecting someone else's feelings -it can't be. And yes my son will find out someday that I was the tooth fairy. Like many other kids - that I made it up. Do all those kids end up not trusting their parents to be honest? No because they know it was done out of love and lightheartedness and fun. And sure I lied to my husband when I planned surprise parties for him and of course he understood why I lied. He did the same to me for my surprise 30th bday party that he planned. Many lies involved there.

[reinventmyself]

I don't post in the public forum often but I am glad when I do.

There used to be a time that differing opinions rattled me.

 

All in all it's a good reminder to be objective of someone elses dilemma, to practice refraining from dumping my projections on them and to be kind.

 

Yep, my guy may very well tell his mom he can't come by because his dog doesn't feel well. I'm not thrilled about that, but when I take into consideration all his other qualities, it doesn't make him a pathological, disordered horrible person worthy of being extricated from my world.

 

Trust me when I tell you I've been through enough in my lifetime to know the difference, despite what you may think.

 

Again, thanks for the reminder and the feedback.

[Batya33]

So for me it would depend on his mom -if she is not a stable person and would fall apart/have health issues if he told his mother he just wasn't in the mood to see her, then telling a white lie is to save her feelings and protect her health. If it's just for his convenience because he'd rather not get into a longer conversation I wouldn't be such a fan of those priorities. Whether or not it's a "lie" - I wouldn't be a fan of prioritizing my own convenience each and every time - because much better to keep it real/clean and to be able to say to mom "thanks so much for the invitation and I need my space right now". Yes, if a friend calls and I don't want to talk because I'd prefer to eat dinner and have my space I might not tell her it's because I'm going to prioritize eating over her, but I likely would say "sorry I have something I need to do right now" -for me eating at that time does feel like a "need" and I am uncomfortable sharing my need to eat at that particular time. But if it was my sister I'd say "I have time to eat on my own before [my son] comes home so I'll call you later ok?" She knows me and knows how precious that eating time is to me. The other friend might find it weird that I'd prioritize dinner over her. So yes is it a "lie" - I guess because I don't technically "need" to eat - I won't starve to death if I have to eat while my son is around distracting me - but on the other hand I am going to call her later and as long as she's not in crisis mode why do I need to share my personal preferences to eat right then? Many people tell me they're too busy to talk right then -is that totally true? I don't know and I don't care- I get that "busy" is relative - and that for some people who call they might not be as busy. Doesn't affect my trust at all. What would though is if a friend told me she couldn't make it to a plan we'd made because she/her child was sick when that wasn't true.