redswim30

But it sounds like they HAVE met at events and such. From what the OP says, his ex is mostly interested in badmouthing him and not interested in logical co-parenting. There's no practical reason for the ex to have her number or to meet with her one on one, seeing as she not investing in co-parenting. This really sounds like she just wants the chance to badmouth her ex to his fiancee or try to scare her away or harass her. Speaking as a stepparent, you actually have very little power/control/say as a stepparent in how the kids are raised or handled by the parents or the parents relationship to each other, even when or if you strongly disagree. Everything is really up the parents, as a stepparent has no legal authority with both bio parents alive. So there's really no logical reason for this "meeting" except wanting to get to "know her" I suppose. However, his ex frankly sounds like she is vindictive and petty, so it seems unlikely that what she truly wants is a friendly "get to know you". And even IF for arguments sake that IS what she wanted, RIGHT after the engagement, when hurt feelings are fresh, would not be a good idea for anyone.

I am a stepmom and I am BEGGING YOU- DO NOT LET AN ALONE MEETING WITH THEM HAPPEN! NOTHING GOOD CAN COME OF THIS! Even a meeting with YOU there would be unwise AT THIS STAGE. This engagement is new and fresh and your ex is likely (not unfairly) having a strong emotional reaction to it. It would NOT be healthy at this stage for you all to meet up. Possibly after things have cooled down, but NOT. NOW. My husband's ex was livid when we got engaged- even though they were never getting back together. She did not want him to be happy. She tried every trick in the book to try and scare me away, including using the children as emotional blackmail. There's simply no reason for the three of you to "meet up" at this moment. If your ex seemed more stable, I might have a different response, but in your own words " continually doing things to attempt to undermine my credibility as a father, even 2 years after divorce"- that is someone that doesn't seem interested in being a constructive co-parent or having the ability to be fair, rational, or reasonable. Do NOT give your ex your fiancee's contacts. Please Please PLEASE take it from someone who has been in your fiancee's shoes. At the beginning, I tried so hard to be as kind as possible to my husband's ex-wife. I was extremely patient with her and tried to understand and I absorbed a lot of her hurt and anger. I felt she deserved to know about me since I would be in her kids lives. I tried very hard to be empathetic towards her and not get too "involved" in decisions. I wanted to co-parent with her fairly, logically, and respectfully. I will have and still never will badmouth her to her children, even though she has not shown me or my husband the same courtesy. Unfortunately, your ex sounds like my husband's ex. She clung to her anger and could NEVER let it go. All she did with my contact info was to harass me and try to manipulate me into leaving. When I tried to reason with her, she just called me names. When I tried to empathize, she insulted. When I offered love and support, she pushed me away and badmouthed me to everyone, hurling lies about me all over that sadly some people still believe. I even said " Look, I understand we will never be best friends, but can't we please try to just be civil for the sake of the kids?" All she did in response was call me names and tell me her kids would never love me and that I was ruining all their lives forever. I finally reached a point where I had to block her from everything, as she had NO interest in even trying to be a mature adult about things. From then on, I said it would be best if they just communicated and she and I need not acknowledge each other's existence. It was terrible, mostly for the kids, but there was no point after trying for nearly 3 years of trying to speak to her when all I got in response to even the simplest of questions, or even offering to support her- was insults and harassment. Sadly, some exes just cannot be and never will be civil, mature, or fair. Since your ex sounds nearly identical to my husband's ex-there's no need for them to be talking at this stage. I see they HAVE met. But I would HIGHLY ADVISE YOU to give this time and to start with a phone call first and see how that goes. Your ex has NO reason to meet her one or one or to have her phone number- this is not for any constructive reason. DO NOT GIVE HER YOUR FIANCEEs NUMBER!!!! It really sounds like her intent is to badmouth you and try and scare her away. If you ex digs her heels in and cannot be civil, then there's really no reason for them to talk. Not ideal, but you can't be rational with an irrational person. Sometimes parallel parenting is necessary when dealing with an emotionally unstable ex, I have BEEN there, so I get it. Keep doing what you're doing and for now, I'd just give her a firm NO. GOOD LUCK

Physical attraction is important, and don't let anyone tell you otherwise. Not saying you have to think they are the most beautiful thing you've ever seen. It's true that bodies do change- However, there has to be at LEAST some attraction on some level, or it won't work out. Would you want a woman dating you that could never picture having sex with you? The only way that could work out is if you were okay with a companionship as opposed to a romantic relationship. But if you want a romantic relationship, you have to have at least SOME physical attraction to the other person. Now, I believe this CAN grow over time, but if nothing is there from the start, nothing will change. Relationships should never feel like having to "rough it out". Honestly, would you want a woman saying that about you? "Well he's nice and all, but in the looks dept, I should rough it out in hopes that someday I MIGHT be attracted to him?" There's lot of people out there. Don't give too much weight to this one person not working out. And please trust me, as a divorcee- it's much better to wait for the right person than to try to force something to work just because you are lonely and want somebody there. A long time ago, I had a male friend that I knew liked me romantically. I liked him so much as person but felt zero attraction to him. People were pressuring me to date him because we got along so well, but I still knew I just wasn't romantically attracted to him. But I decided I shouldn't be "shallow" and tried dating him. It never felt right. I actually cringed when he kissed me. I could NEVER picture having sex with him. After a couple weeks, I called it quits cause I knew going forward would be dishonest and giving him false hope that this could be more than just a good friendship. I learned a lot from that. You can learn to like someone, you can learn to LOVE someone, but you cannot learn to be attracted to someone. You either are or you aren't- and that doesn't make you shallow, it makes you human. Unless you want a sexless relationship, attraction is important in a romantic one.

To allay your fears- No, you are NOT a "homewrecker". To be honest, I hate that word, anyway. It's almost exclusively applied to women as if the taken guy she dated ISN'T cheating scum who likely either flat out lied to her, gave her half truths or just pretended to be single. And even IF the dude is honest about being married, this MARRIED MAN is still choosing to cheat, so how does the woman end up with the title "Homewrecker" as if the man had NO free will in the situation. Dude wrecked his OWN home. IMVHO, it always MORE the person who is attached that should be blamed than the single person. I weary of married women who stay with cheating husbands and just blame "that Jezebel". OR, you're husband is just a cheater who doesn't love or respect you. And if it wasn't her, it'd be someone else- cause someone who is determined to cheat- will. It sounds like they really were not together when you dated. But do learn a lesson from this. Dating people with kids can be messy, especially if they still live together. You didn't do anything wrong. People who are madly in love don't go out and date other people. That was his choice. He moved out, so they obviously were not still together. It's highly unlikely you contributed to the problems they had. It doesn't sound like they got back together, either. But it's good to know what you can and can't handle. A lot of drama comes from dating people with kids, especially if the kid is still young. Trusting your gut is usually the best thing. In the meantime, take it easy on yourself.

You can't change what happened. Like you said, all you can do is move forward and try to apply what lessons you have learned from it. IMVHO, and some people may disagree, but if you already know you aren't in love with you wife and know that any "efforts" you make are going to be half hearted on your part, then there's really no point going through those motions and giving your wife a sense of false hope where there really isn't any. I actually think if you already know where your feelings lie and you don't see them changing, then you should be honest with both yourself and with her that it is over. It does no one ANY good to pretend to "make the effort" if you already know your heart isn't in it. IMVHO, to do so would actually be cruel to your wife to pretend you are invested when you really aren't. Let me tell you in all honesty as someone who was married to someone who kept giving me false hope that he was interested in "fixing things" when he really WASN'T- the emotionally yo-yoing he put me through was MUCH worse than if he had just been honest with me about wanting a divorce in the first place. We ended up divorcing anyways, but now besides just being heartbroken, I also felt deceived and that he had wasted my time. It's likely your wife is either in denial about your true feelings OR (and this happens more often that you may think) she may KNOW but cares more about keeping you there as a husband and father figure than worrying about true closeness. For some people, that's enough. However, you aren't obligated to stay in a romantically loveless marriage to make someone else comfortable. I think it's time to be totally honest and let go of the security blanket. Do this after you have a safe place to go to and have gathered information. But I think it's going to be necessary to have a real and tough conversation with your wife. You need to tell her how unhappy and unfulfilled you are romantically and that you had an ongoing affair. This may snap her into reality about how serious your issues are. She may want to divorce you for that alone. (No matter what she has said in in the past, you never know until you are IN that situation how you will really feel). Or she may decide that a friendship marriage is enough for her. But you will never know until you face the music. You also need to consider what you really want deep down. I know divorce is scary. I've been there. But honestly, you are already emotionally divorced from her. She should get to have a say in how she really feels about that and how she wants to proceed- with full disclosure from you. Then you can both make an informed decision together. I hope for your sake she is truly interested a non-messy divorce.

Sometimes working on a marriage can resolve issues but only if both parties all fully invested. IMVHO, it likely didn't work because the truth is that deep down you are just not in love with your wife (you already know this) and don't really want to be married to her. You want her friendship and for her to think well of you and serve as your buffer for not being alone. This is why the idea of divorce felt fine to you when you thought you could have another person filling your voids, but now without that backup, you are scared. I get it. Being alone can be scary. But the truth is you are already alone, even if you still live in the same house as your wife. We all have to confront our inner issues alone, whether are are married, dating someone or single. No other person can fix problems inside us. I'm glad you said you are getting into therapy, as I think this will help give you clarity and start you on a good path towards healing. IMVHO, you are never going to be the best version of yourself or be the best partner you can be until you start resolving your own issues. Please face facts that you are no longer in love with your wife. You are staying with her out of fear, complacency and comfort. If you were madly in love with her or truly deeply wanted your marriage to work, you wouldn't have sought (and kept) and affair and even offered to get a divorce for her. Please divorce her so she can be free to find someone who really wants her as a spouse and not just as a friend/security blanket. You are already just friends with your wife, so why not make it official and do the truly loving thing by letting her go to find someone that really wants her. Only after you work on your own personal traumas and healing will you really be able to see if you want or can be a good partner to another person. Facing trauma and working towards healing are scary things. But this is a journey you should take alone.

Why is it you were willing to divorce your wife when this over woman was in the picture, but now that she is gone you are reluctant? This suggests that you don't really care about staying married to your wife, you are just afraid of being alone. You need to get divorced as you are no longer in love with your wife and clearly only interested in staying with her for financial reasons and possibly for your child. Please re-read your post. Please take note that there is no mention of you trying to work through issues with your wife. Everything you mention about your wife is really about you. Nowhere do you say you love your wife and don't want to hurt her. You express more worry for yourself and about this other woman, than you do for your wife and child. That should really tell you everything. Your heart and mind are not on your marriage. You don't really care about your marriage nor are you invested in saving it. If you are no longer in love with your wife and stood ready to divorce her for someone you were having an affair with, then you do NOT have "everything you need". Staying in a loveless marriage in which you are cheating on your wife and offering to leave her for another woman IS extremely selfish. Divorcing your wife would be the honest and right thing to do. If you remain emotionally unhappy and can't connect with your wife, you will only continue to cheat on her. Please do not stay with her out of complacency or fear. Do not stay in this marriage because you have a nice house and child. I doubt your wife signed up for a "marriage" in which her husband stays with her for the nice house and for friendship while he goes off and has love affairs that he is willing to leave her for. You can't take back the past but you can control your present and future. Please divorce your wife. She doesn't deserve to be your consolation friendship relationship if the romantic one with your girlfriend doesn't work out, so that you can look like a good guy and remain in your nice house.

Your family is already being impacted by this, whether you see it or not. You are already on the route to divorce, whether you see it or not. Kids are smarter than you think. You are currently modeling for your daughter a blueprint for how she will view relationships and marriage. Your Girlfriend not wanting to marry you or give up independence does not mean she has not or will not form any emotional attachment to you or at some point feel possessive of you. If your wife really IS your best friend- then as best friends you should admit that you are in not love with each other anymore. (Loving someone as a person is not the same as being IN LOVE with them). Many people who divorce still have love for each other, but cannot live with severe incompatibility. You have severe incompatibility as spouses, even if you are compatible as friends. You need to tell her the FULL truth and let her decide if she wants to stay in a sham/friendship marriage or get a divorce so you can both be with people who you are both more compatible with. And so your child has a healthy example. You are risking more than you think- you know your GF's kids COULD say something to your kid, right? If they haven't already- " You know your Dad comes to our mom's house all the time?" It's VERY easy with the internet and social media for kids to communicate without grownups knowing. If nothing else, you should think about protecting your child. Kids hear stuff thru the grapevine all the time these days. You and your wife are lying to each other and avoiding telling each other the truth about your feelings- divorce is inevitable. This is not in any way a happy or healthy marriage. You either need to step up and admit it now or it will come out later in a much worse- and likely unexpected way. This sham marriage is not sustainable.

Divorces do not have to be messy and terrible. Many people are in fact BETTER parents when they can focus on parenting as opposed to their struggling marriage. I'd argue that sometimes divorces are better for children than having two struggling parents that live together as roommates. You may love your wife and she may love you, but you are clearly not IN LOVE with each other anymore. You said it yourself, she feels like a sister and she is definitely treating you as a sibling or friend as well, not as a spouse. If you did not have a child, would you consider a divorce? IMVHO, staying in a marriage ONLY for the kids is usually a bad idea and for more toxic for the child that parents even realize. You SAY you wife was fine with having an "open marriage", but I'm wondering if she truly knows you look on her as a sister. And that this other woman is NOT just an "affair partner or mistress", you are softening this for both her and yourself- this woman is your GIRLFRIEND- Please stop lying to yourself about this. You are married with a girlfriend which is not fair to either woman, and I don't think you wife really fully realizes this. Your GF might be fine with this for now, but I'm doubting she will be forever. You need to face facts about this before things get really messy. You need to sit down and have a frank conversation with your wife. You may be married on paper, but neither of you is really behaving as though you are married. You with your girlfriend and her not caring about intimacy with you at all. You should have a real conversation about this, "I need to be honest with you about how I am feeling. No matter what happens, I want to focus on raising our child together. However, I no longer feel romantic feelings for you, and I feel like you have also checked out of the marriage romantically. I am feeling like we are more like siblings or friends than spouses. If you do not want to divorce under any circumstances, then we need to be open about how we are honestly feeling about each other instead of ignoring it. I have a girlfriend. She is not just a casual sex partner. If you are okay with me keeping a girlfriend who can meet my needs that you cannot, then perhaps we can work out staying married. Or if you are not okay with this, then perhaps we should discuss separating and continuing to be good parents to our child. Divorce is an option, and we can maintain a good relationship if it comes to this." You need to have this conversation, because this is what you aren't saying to each other. You are both avoiding reality. If you do not have this conversation by choice, it WILL happen eventually under more heated circumstances. Ironically by not bringing up the possibility of divorce, you are almost ensuring you will HAVE a messy one if you continue to ignore and sweep reality under the rug in the long term. Having your cake and eating it too will only last for so long.

It sounds like your wife is emotionally selfish. You clearly vented your heart out to her. Her response is friendly, but not supportive or holding a strong desire to help you work through all these feelings. First thing is first, please see someone about your depression. It will only be helpful to you, no matter what is going on within your marriage. Sorry you got rejected from the job. But remember, it's just one job. There will be more. You and your wife need to sit down and talk about things. While it's not her job to "fix" your depression. It IS her job to be supportive and to be as emotionally open and available to you as you seem to be towards her. It's interesting that she says you complain too much, but it also sounds like when you express anything less than pleasant emotions, her response is to shut down. No wonder you feel emotionally alone, it's because you ARE. You are basically in a no win emotional situation with her. She doesn't want to hear complaining, yet when you are fair and vulnerable she shuts down. You do not have healthy communication here. I would strongly recommend getting into couples therapy. You both need some help defining your emotional needs. Marriage takes two and you BOTH need to be fully invested in creating change and improvements. If you both aren't in this, your marriage will only continue to deteriorate little by little, until it reaches a boiling point and one (or both) of you can't take it anymore and separate. Take it from me, your marriage is on a bad path. NOW is the time to try and correct it, not brush it under the rug just hoping things will get better. Honesty and therapy time.

He's not in the wrong, YOU are. There was and is NO cheating going on here. You broke up. He made it VERY clear how he felt about you, and that he had no intention of getting back together with you. It's not his fault you were in denial about his honesty. You asking him to stay was a mistake. You expected that you could manipulate him into wanting you again, and when that didn't happen- you got mad. You are being unreasonable. He's under no obligation to like you back just because you still have feelings for him, that's your problem- not his. You have no right to feel betrayed. He did nothing wrong. He was honest with you. You just didn't want to believe it. You thought if you continued to "play house" everything would just work out the way you wanted it to, that he would read your mind, and change his, all without ever having a conversation about your own feelings and desires. You are the one that was lying to yourself and to him. If he has feelings for someone else and he knows you still have feelings for him, then moving out was the right thing for him to do. This is actually honorable of him. I understand you are upset because he hurt your feelings and your ego. But you were already broken up and he made his feelings and intentions clear to you. Move on and let go. Breakups hurt. You are just coming out of your denial that he no longer wants to be a relationship with you. It has hurt your feelings and your pride. But none of that is his fault or problem.

In my experience as a woman, YES- most women are insecure/worried about talking too much around someone they like. Why? Because we are often silenced, shushed, told to minimize ourselves, told we're "obnoxious" if we talk too much. Honestly, my own husband "shushed" me the other day. When I was single, I would often apologize for talking too much, worried a man wouldn't like me if I did. Even with close friends, I sometimes do this. Part of it is just cultural for all the reasons I mentioned above. Part of it is nerves, I talk more when I really like someone- so, I'd take this as a strong sign that she likes you!

Please read this over and over- almost exactly what I was going to say. Intimacy is much more than just sex, and you have been extremely patient, understanding and accommodating. It's another thing altogether to not want to demonstrate any kind of affection to your partner. That is actually being cruel. It's unreasonable to expect you to treat your wife like a platonic friend, when that is not the marriage you signed up for. Just remember, you can't be in marriage of one. You are willing to meet her halfway, she has to be willing to come the other half or this will never work. Your wife is holding onto some secret she doesn't wish to share. What that is, I don't know. This is much more than just physical to her, she is making the choice to actively push you away and even daring you to leave her. IMVHO, people only do this for a few reasons- 1. They are just done with the relationship, but instead of being honest, push the other person to break up with them under the guise of "You deserve better than me" 2. They have someone else waiting in the wings 3. Worst of all, they want to change the dynamic completely without caring how you feel about it None of these is great. What Lost said is accurate. Please don't beat your brains out thinking there's some magical thing you can do or say to change her mind or mindset. There isn't. This is NOT going to be cured with "date nights". If I were you, I'd consult a lawyer. Your marriage is on a fast track to Divorceland. Only AFTER you have your ducks in a row, it's up to you if you want to make one honest and last ditch effort with her to attempt to save the marriage. But your wife has to be willing to be honest with you, and she is NOT being fully honest with you. She's hiding behind an operation THREE YEARS AGO, but do not let her manipulate your compassion. Operations don't prevent someone from wanting to cuddle or hug. Operations don't make your wife call you SELFISH for wanting some level of physical (non sexual) level of closeness with her. She may still have some love for you, but that is not how someone who is IN LOVE with you acts. I agree with you, OP_ she's not in love with you anymore. Stop trying to compromise with her, don't try and get her to therapy- because none of that is going to work as long as she refuses to be HONEST with you. Something (besides the operation 3 years ago) has changed for her EMOTIONALLY. But instead of telling you and trying to work thru it with you, she's calling you selfish and daring you to leave if you don't "like it". This isn't going to be healthy for either of you in the long term. Time to face the facts. Your wife wants to dictate a new marriage to you totally on her terms. You need to decide if you want to live as friends for the rest of your life, because that is what she seems to want. If not, consult a lawyer. Only after you have things figure out, if you think it's worth it, you can ask her if she's willing to tell you the truth and meet you halfway. But I think you already know the answer to that.

I'm sorry to tell you, this man is not in love with you. He's saying ALL the classic lines to try and get you to break up with him: 1. "Incapable of change"- this is BS. Everyone is capable of change. Not saying it's not HARD and easier for some than others. But, to take this stance is being absolutist- what he's really saying " I don't care enough to change for YOU." 2. "The relationship isn't fair to you/you deserve someone better"- The "nice" breakup phrases. People pull these lines as bait to get the person to break up with them and still looking "good" in the eyes of others. 3. "He's not the right man for you"- OP. how much more obvious can he GET here? 4. "He imagines his life without you." This says it ALL. No one who WANTS to be with you imagines life without you. Let me put it to you this way- I often imagined a future without my ex. I have never imagined a future without my current husband. Because if we're really in love with someone, we can't picture a future without them in it. 5. And the coup de grace- "He doesn't "know" if he wants your relationship to work." Translation- he's not in love with you. Someone saying they don't know how they feel about you or your relationship is often just code for "I KNOW I don't love you/want you, but I don't want to hurt your feelings, so I'll be vague with saying I don't know" but the I don't know says it ALL. I'm sorry, OP. But stop wasting your time with a man who clearly isn't invested in you or a future with you. You may not want to break up, but he DOES. Why do you want someone so badly who feels so lukewarm about you? I know it's hard when we love someone. But we cannot force someone to feel the same way about us as we do about them. I can't tell you if he has another Lady waiting in the wings or not, but I CAN tell you, he doesn't see himself with you long term. It's true that no relationship is perfect, OP. BUT, there's a big difference between having minor disagreements and making large sweeping statements about not being with you, not feeling in love with you, and not picturing a future with you. Please stop investing time and energy in a man who so clearly doesn't want you. There's better men out there. Men that will treat you well and WANT a future with you. Or even men who don't want a future with you, but show you the decency and respect to break up with you if they don't. What your BF is doing is spectacularly terrible. You really want a future with a man who gaslights you, manipulates you, some would say is emotionally abusing you, and doesn't love you? You can DO better. Please break up with this jerk. Give him what he wants and find a better quality person, you deserve it. If you insist on staying with him, expect him to keep putting you thru emotional torture til you can't take it anymore and break up with him. Your BF is coward. He wants to break up, but instead of just doing it, he wants to try and get YOU to do it for him through subtle manipulation to make himself look like a better person. If you don't break up, this will turn to bigger manipulation. And could even possibly veer into abusive if he's had enough.

You're welcome. It's your first major relationship, so a large part of this is going to be a learning process for you. We learn a lot about ourselves when we are in committed relationships. And you are right, sometimes what we learn surprises us. Especially by way of our own flaws, issues, and how our past has shaped us to believe and feel things. Acknowledging your issues is the first step to improving them. I'm proud of you for admitting and accepting your own issues. It's important to remember this for this and future relationships- NO partner can fix the issues within us. No man will ever be able to fix your insecurity for you and other women are always going to exist in the world. Being aware and okay with that is a journey that you have to do yourself. All the time I witness people who self-sabotage relationships because they LOOK for things to justify and validate their beliefs or insecurities, whether they are actually true or not. (IE I'm afraid he's going to cheat on/leave me- so I'm going to read into every single interaction that could possibly validate that belief, even though he's given me no solid reason to not actually trust him) I highly recommend you take two actions as soon as you can. First, communicate with him about what you would like in your relationship. But approach it from a positive and non-accusatory place. For example, " I think it's so great that you have awesome and supportive friends. I genuinely like them and enjoy hanging out with them. But, if you and I are planning to hang out together since our time is always limited, I would like to ask you if in the future we could please have a conversation before inviting friends to join us. It would really mean a lot to me and would make me feel like you value my feelings and input about how we manage our time together." And see how that goes. Second, put yourself out there more. Do more things without him. This will go a long way to not only building your self esteem, but to see yourself as valuable person worthy of love, respect, and attention from people other than your boyfriend. Significant others should never be our only valuable relationships. You hit the nail on the head. Everything WILL be all right. 🙂 You just need to approach things from a positive and proactive place. You're still very young and have a lot of time to explore what is, live in the moment. I can tell you as a woman that has done and seen a lot in my life, please don't ever waste your time on what COULD be. Try to see and appreciate what is your life now. Life and relationships often don't go quite as we expect them to, but that doesn't mean things can't be beautiful. Learn to let go of what isn't meant for you and embrace the positive you do have. All the best to you.