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Tinydance

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Tinydance last won the day on December 15 2023

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  1. I wasn't trying to diagnose any disorder or personality or anything but was only referring to the fears OP mentioned herself. I think that's what can cause the anxiety, the generalisation that you mentioned. E.g. "All my friends will leave me for a boyfriend", "society only values romantic relationships", "I'll be left by myself". These are really broad and black and white statements. Some people really value romantic relationships but some people don't. I have friends who don't want marriage or kids. One of my friends is actually from India and she's 40 and never wanted kids and now doesn't want a partner either. I'm literally quoting her: "I don't need a guy, only my friends and cats" lol
  2. Well in terms of the confirmation bias. I'm sorry but to me it seems that you have a deep fear of being alone or "left behind". I mean you did say that you have this fear so I'm not diagnosing you with anything lol I'm just talking about something you said yourself. You are scared that your friends will ditch you for a boyfriend and people care more about their partner than you. So you're looking for research or articles that proves that this is all true. Your fear is real because it's real to YOU. But I don't think that's the full reality that people only care about romantic relationships and don't care about friendships. I think in most cultures this will be the case. If people didn't care about friendship then nobody would have friends at all. Like, people would just have a husband or wife, then divorce and have nobody. But that's not everyone's reality, right? Lots of people in relationships still have friends. I'm sorry that you had some bad experiences where your friends got a boyfriend and you lost touch. I've had friends ditch me too but I don't think it was because of a boyfriend but because they weren't true friends or other reasons. Some reasons a couple of my female friends ditched me is I knew them for some years and then came out to them that I'm bisexual. Keep in mind I had zero romantic interest in them and zero advances towards them. They didn't feel comfortable that I'm bisexual/they're homophobic so they basically ended the friendship. Like I understand about people drifting or ditching you but it seems you are very adamant that all of that is always because they got a boyfriend. I see what you mean that your friend is getting her social needs through her boyfriend and not through you. It's normal you miss her but she doesn't "have" to make sure your social needs are met. I'm not getting the impression that she's actually ditched you. You gave even recent examples in your posts that she asked you to catch up and you went to an event. You said she is talking to you about her boyfriend or what she's up to. So obviously she is answering your messages. If she wanted to just ditch you, she wouldn't go to an event with you or message you back etc. She could easily just ignore you. Which she's not doing right? She's just living her life and spending time with her partner which is normal. I'm not diagnosing your attachment style as in secure, avoidant, etc. I was simply saying your attachment to your friend isn't healthy in the sense that you are really fixated on her. You were saying why do your friends get obsessed with their boyfriend and only focus on the boyfriend. But why are you only focusing on this one friend like she's literally your everything on life? I'm sorry but yes that is needy. There is a difference between wanting to have friends and putting that full hope on one friend that they're your everything and you're just miserable without them. Like, if someone had a partner and the partner went away for three months, of course they'll miss them. But if their partner just went to work for the day and they're depressed and lonely coz the partner isn't there, that's not healthy attachment. Nothing wrong with wanting to have friends but in your case it's too dependent. It's exactly the same as women who are never happy unless they have a guy.
  3. Well, what I meant by self-sufficient is that yes of course we all want friends or a partner, but we also need to feel good in ourselves first. Like that saying: "How can other people love you if you don't love yourself." Like, if you just really absolutely can't bear to be alone and desperately need others. I don't think it's supposed to be like that. I think that friends or a partner can enrich your life, like compliment it. As in, they add something positive to your life. But it shouldn't be like: "I simply can't live if I don't have a friend." I'm not sure if that makes sense what I'm saying. I'm more so getting that vibe from OP's posts. I could be wrong in this because I actually never felt self-conscious to go out alone. I actually went to a theatre play alone last night. I did have two tickets but on the end the other person couldn't come. But just the same I also go to theatre shows or concerts alone where I literally only get one ticket just for me. I always did this. I have friends but for some reason I didn't think anything of going anywhere alone so it didn't matter if anyone went with me. Like, if I wanted to see a particular movie at the cinema or see a band I like. I asked people to go but they weren't interested. But I didn't want to miss out on seeing the band so I just went. But somehow I don't really notice that I'm alone, if that makes sense? Like, I'm watching the movie at the cinema and I'll be thinking something about the movie. Not "OMG I'm watching this movie all by myself." I also notice other people who are alone when I go out by myself. Because I'm not talking to friends I pay more attention to my surroundings. And I definitely see others who also go to things alone. At the same time I think here in Australia there isn't actually any focus on being in a couple or even going to places with other people. In cafes you'll often see people who are alone just working on their laptop or reading a book. But I guess here and especially in my city most people are friendly. It's considered acceptable say if you're passing someone in a park or in the street to say "good morning, nice day today." I mean not everyone does that but some people do. It seems to happen even more in more rural areas. I drove to this beach town 3.5 hours away by myself once. It's popular for whale watching so I went there for that. I actually didn't even ask anyone to go with me! I just jumped in my car and went. Again I didn't really notice I was alone except constant texts from my mother checking if I'm OK lol Anyway when I was walking around that town, people would smile to me and say; "Good evening" "hello" etc. It happened a lot. I understand if you live in a country that's really over populated and say you're in a city of twenty million people, you might feel alone. Some cultures have that idea that you shouldn't talk to strangers. So I understand in that sense it could feel lonely and like you're bring excluded. Here I think it's not the case. It's also acceptable here to be alone. As I said, I always went out alone and nobody ever asked me why I was alone. They seemed to perceive it as normal.
  4. I think that while you not turning up for Christmas was pretty bad, your daughter has actually overreacted. If you've been apologising and trying to contact her a lot, she could move on and forgive you. I did read another comment you wrote that your daughter always had difficult behaviours or something like that. But the part I seem to have missed is why do you need Joe to go with you? You can't just go places alone?
  5. Thank you for providing the links to the articles. Since we're talking about psychology and philosophy and so on, do you know what confirmation bias is? Here is a quick description from Wikipedia" "Confirmation bias is the tendency to search for, interpret, favor, and recall information in a way that confirms or supports one's prior beliefs or values. People display this bias when they select information that supports their views, ignoring contrary information, or when they interpret ambiguous evidence as supporting their existing attitudes. The effect is strongest for desired outcomes, for emotionally charged issues, and for deeply entrenched beliefs." Do you see what I'm getting at?
  6. Well there is that saying "don't put all your eggs in one basket". That is never a good thing with anything! I think you don't have the ability to be self sufficient. Of course we want to socialise because as humans we are social creatures. We evolved to live as a pack or tribe for protection and survival. It's ingrained in our nature biologically. But the way you see friendship seems like an unhealthy attachment style. You solely rely on friends to take away your loneliness, it is almost like a desperation. So when your friend becomes busier or gets into a relationship, you feel this huge hole in your life. You can't rely on someone so heavily, almost like it's their "job" to make you less lonely. It's never good to place all hope into only one thing. Some people are workaholics and that's not good either. The thing too is that people get scared away by clingy or needy people. You need to be independent and give off a vibe that you don't "need" other people. People can smell desperation and it can be off putting. Also I think there's a difference between being alone and lonely. I do have a lot of friends but very often I would go to a movie, festival, concert by myself. I would literally stand in the mosh pit by myself and listen to the band. And I was having a good time! Learn to sit with being alone. You can still use it to enjoy yourself and have "me time". There's a book I was reading called "How to be Alone" by The School of Life. You might find it useful.
  7. Your friend sounds very co-dependent but the problem is, you have actually been contributing to that. You've been enabling her by taking care of her, her dog, doing all the chores and cooking, etc. She's not your child or even relative so you shouldn't have been doing any of that. In fact when I lived with roommates, we only cooked our own food and that's it. You have no obligation at all to cook for a housemate. You really should have been more firm and told her to do everything herself, or asked her to move out, or moved yourself. I understand she's your friend but that doesn't mean you have to act like her mother. This is actually a sure way to lose the friendship because it builds resentment and makes things worse. I think you're too involved in your friend's life way above and beyond what a normal friend would be. She's nearly 30 years old and this is her life. I don't really understand why you're asking what to do about her pregnancy or how she will care for the baby because this doesn't relate to you. She's a grown woman and she's decided to keep the baby. The boyfriend is still with her and wants to have the baby. It's not for you to worry about how they're going to raise the baby because it's not your child or family. Like, it's not your niece or nephew so you actually don't need to be involved with this at all. If you see something like abuse or neglect of some kind, then you could call social services or child protection out of concern. But otherwise it's not your job to be worrying about where your friend will live or how she'll raise the baby, etc. You are actually moving out so really your involvement with any of this can just stop. Live your life and she will live hers. Maybe she make bad choices but it's her choices and you don't need to get involved or do anything l.
  8. Yep that's what I'm trying to say. Very negative and almost like trying to prove that being in a relationship is bad. Or people in relationships treat single people badly, exclude them, so on. Which is not true. There are also a lot of single people and even singles groups. Plenty of people out there who aren't single but still really value friendships. I joined a Facebook women's social group and there are women there of all ages, some single, in relationships, married, kids, no kids. We all go out together to coffee, movies, shows, walks, things like that. We are all there because we want to make friends and have friends. One of the admins of the group has been with her husband for like 30 years and she was the one who started the group to make friends. Huge generalisation that people in relationships don't want to have friends.
  9. Sorry if this comes across as rude or offensive but are you getting any therapy? I'm not saying this to make you feel bad. But just reading all your posts, I think you could really benefit from talking to a therapist because you have some unhealthy ways of thinking. I'm only suggesting this because I think you need to discuss this a lot deeper with a trained professional, rather than on a forum. Of course you are allowed to talk about it on a forum as well. You seem to have a very deep fear of being alone which to me doesn't sound rational. I think that your comments that society is only made for couples and not people who are single don't really apply to Western society. I understand it does depend on culture in particular countries. For example I know in many Asian countries, it's a woman's path in life to marry, have children, etc. If you don't do this you are considered "an old maid". I know some Eastern European countries can be very traditional like this as well. However there are still single people there. For example even people who are gay because being gay isn't that accepted in their country. This is the case with my cousin who is gay and he's back in my home country. However I really don't see how simply by being single, especially in Europe or other Western countries, means you are excluded from society. You have exactly the same rights legally as people in a relationship or married. You are not being stopped from making friends, working, pursuing hobbies. If you're a woman maybe you might get paid less than a man but nonetheless you are free to have a career. In Western culture if you're single, people don't care. I couldn't care less if someone is single or married in terms of me liking them as a person. I'm sorry that some of your friends ditched you but most people don't ditch their friends. I've been both single or in serious relationships and I never left my friends. That's why I have close or best friends I've known for 24 years, 20 years, 13 years, etc. I don't know why you have this fixed idea in your head that all people just dump their friends if they have a partner. You have a very irrational fear of this and you're trying to prove by using research or psychology to show that "being in a couple isn't that good." You said you are in Europe so surely you're not considered a second class citizen there just because you're single? All I'm saying is you're trying to prove some kind of point about that it's not that great to be in a relationship or something like that. And that single people feel lonely. If you're talking about them feeling lonely in terms of they don't have someone to come home to, then sure. But they don't have to feel lonely in the sense they have no friends because they're single, don't have hobbies, don't have a job. This is all available to you exactly the same as a single person as people in relationships. You are feeling sorry for yourself because you're lonely and your friends found a boyfriend etc. Feeling lonely is normal bit it's not the fault of your friends, society, or being single. If you're in a city and not a tiny country town, you should have plenty of opportunities there to go out and meet people. There should be Meetup groups (or similar), classes, book clubs, Facebook groups, or just events in general. I know you said you're a doctor so I understand you must be very busy. But even as a doctor you must have time off so why don't you use your time off to go out and meet people? Instead you're trying to prove something about your own (wrong?) beliefs about being single, friendships, etc.
  10. I don't actually think you even need to be in a relationship if for example you don't want to be. I have one 39-year-old friend who has literally never been on a date to my knowledge and is a virgin with zero romantic experience of any kind. She could be asexual or aromantic. She's travelled a lot, has friends and librarian career, had pets and owns a nice apartment. So it's up to you what you want. That's exactly what I was talking about that people's lives and goals are different. You're saying your life is fine and nothing wrong with it that you're single. But equally there's nothing wrong if your friends have that big goal of settling down with a guy, or having kids. There are a lot of people who really want all that. To fall in love, wedding, family, etc. So yes I agree with Wiseman, respect your friends, how they want to live and their choices. I'm sorry if your friends drifted off because they found a boyfriend but at first you said it was "at least three friends". I just find it a bit weird that so many of your friends did this. To me that points to either that literally all these people actually weren't close friends but you perceived them to be. So you were a lot more invested than them. Or your expectations were really high. Like, they didn't ditch you but you were really hurt they don't message or catch up *as much* so you stopped contacting them too. I mean, I definitely don't doubt that people exist who dump their friends for a guy. But how is it all your friends, 3 + people? Just seems like too many unless you were really unlucky? I also think you mentioned that that you moved around a lot for a number of years. Unfortunately when you not physically there, friendship does tend to become not as close. I don't think it means that these people literally don't care or don't like you but friendship requires catching up in person. If you never see each other it won't be as close. So if you were expecting that you'd be away many years and when you return, these friends are still your besties, that might not be the case. So it might not be that they found boyfriends but you were already drifting because of distance. Then they just happened to find a boyfriend. And yeah maybe they weren't super loyal friends but people's lives do change. It doesn't make them a bad person but when your life changes you might not be in a position to do the same things anymore. For example, when my best friend was single, we used to talk and catch up all the time. We'd go to bars, clubs, movies, dinner, coffee. But when she met her husband, she didn't want to go to clubs because she wasn't single and she couldn't catch up once or twice a week. She was working full-time and trying to build her relationship with her husband. Then they had two kids so she got super busy. You seem to get into some kind of "in your head" as you said that as soon as your friends get a boyfriend, you're not on the same page or same league. They're now "women with a boyfriend". Doesn't really seem to me like you're being supportive or even trying to get to know the boyfriend. You view the boyfriend as an intruder who took your friends away. This will also drive your friends away because their boyfriend is really important to them and big part of their life. For example, you could ask your friend to all go out together you, her and professor. Instead you're like: "Be careful". It just doesn't come across as you accept your friends and their boyfriend as a couple but you just want the boyfriend to go away. So it's like the old times where your friend is single and free for you. If that's the case then not surprising they drifted off.
  11. Yes. And even warning her to be careful and say it's her professor and he's older etc. But he wasn't her professor anymore and she's 29, he's 39. So the age gap isn't actually massive or anything. For example my best friend is 33 and currently seeing a guy who's 47. Also her friend asked the professor out for coffee so it was actually her who pursued him. And also be careful about what exactly?
  12. Well again, I'm not sure what country you are in so makes it a little difficult for me to research the friendship or dating culture. I'm originally from Europe too but moved to Australia as a 12-year-old. I'm 39 now. In the country my family are from, people really value friendship, or at least my family did. And people are very genuine about friendship. If they don't truly really like someone they wouldn't be friends just for numbers or "to have someone". But people tend to get married and have kids young. Probably in their early to mid 20's. So from that perspective maybe they would get really busy and especially before their kids go to school and are babies or very small. I'm sorry that you had a few friends who distanced from the friendship or completely lost contact after getting a boyfriend. I do agree with you that people still need to find a middle ground. It's never really happened to me except with one of my best friends who's been with her husband for 17 years and has two kids. But she didn't ditch me but the friendship just became sporadic. Like, when we catch up it's like old times. But we don't catch up as much. I also have a lot of friends. I'm even in two separate groups of close friends. One group is of seven people and one of four. The group of four are friends from school who I've known for 24 years. Our friendship has changed a lot over time. Like, when we were teenagers and early 20's I was very close to Claire, then went through a period being very close to Steph. We all chat in a group chat but we don't catch up often because most of us live really far from each other. One of them lives a 2.5 hour drive from me and that drive is on a freeway at very high speed. So as you can imagine it's far. What I'm trying to say is that some friendships will change and it doesn't always mean it's the end. Like, I'm not sure if you're perceiving it as the end but it's not? You actually gave an example that with your friend from this post, she doesn't reply much so then you just stop contacting her. Did you stop contacting the other friends as well? You don't seem OK with the "ebb and flow" type of friendship. I wonder if the friendship changes then you get really hurt and you drift off from it too? On the other hand I'm fine with that type of friendship because I have so many friends. For example, that friend who's 2.5 hours drive away lives in a really nice rural area. Usually they had a light projection festival once a year. So about once a year I'd come over to the area and we would catch up. Otherwise we catch up as a group every few months or we chat in a Facebook group chat on and off. Just because a friendship isn't constant go go go with constant texts, calls, catching up, doesn't mean it doesn't exist. I think if you have that black and white view then you will end up losing the friendships all together. Again I respect your country's culture but do people really judge people who met their partner at a bar? Or you judge them? I just don't understand why it makes a difference where you met your partner. Really you can meet them anywhere. One of my friends was at an art gallery and asked a guy and his Mum to take her photo. They kept in touch and are now married with two kids. You seem to have some kind of prejudice about you or your friends talking to guys at a bar. You have some kind if set in stone ideas about what people are supposed to act like or supposed to think. But they don't seem to think the same. E.g. Your friend doesn't see a problem with talking to guys at bars. You just don't seem very flexible in your mindset is what I'm trying to say.
  13. To me it would really depend on where you actually are. You mentioned something about traditions in your country. Which country are you in if you don't mind me asking? I used to go out a lot with girl friends to all sort of places when I was younger. I think the culture here in Australia is if you're girls and you're going to a bar or night club, you can definitely be approached by guys. Here bars and clubs are very much for picking up so it's the vibe and culture of them. Of course, you can decline the advance from a guy, for whatever reason you have. For example, you're not interested in him, you're not single, just feel like talking to your friends, etc. However amongst my friends there wasn't an expectation that if a cute guy approached one of us, she has to say; "No sorry I'm talking to my friend." Wiseman mentioned about being a wingwoman and yes we were very much one for each other. In fact one of my best friends used to ask me in bars to go up to guys and say: "My friend over there thinks you're hot". That was her pick up line. However if you're sitting in a restaurant or cafe and your friend is just 24/7 obsessed with picking up guys yes I guess that would be annoying. If you're in a queue to get a coffee and all of a sudden she's hitting on the barista for 30 minutes and only spends 30 minutes with you then that's a bit different. I'm sorry that your friend has started to drift on you. Maybe she is one of those people who does that when in a relationship. But on the other hand I think you mentioned you said something negative to her about her boyfriend at the start? Or did I misunderstand? You said she doesn't confide in you about her relationship or introduced you to her boyfriend. Usually people don't react well to their friends saying something bad about their relationship so that may have played a part in it. You seem to have an "us verses them" attitude in terms of "I'm single, they're not". It doesn't have to be that way.
  14. I kind of agree with Wiseman in the sense that you seem to have a black and white view of friendships and relationships. You've said a few times that you really value friendships a lot and they're more important to you than romantic relationships. That's fine but for most people they're not mutually exclusive. You wrote in some of your previous posts that you've known some people who only care about romantic relationships. And that "my friends have settled down and I've been left behind". I definitely read something like that which you wrote in your post about you going on a date. I think some of the issues you're having is actually from your own mindset. Using a phrase like: "I've been left behind" implies that you were deliberately dumped or excluded in some way. I'm sure not all your friends or all people you know only care about romance and just ignore everything else once in a relationship. That would just not be possible because people are all different. For example to me friends, close family and partner are basically on equal standing. Your friends neither have control nor any responsibility over you dating or finding anyone. Just because they found partners doesn't mean they "left you behind". They put effort into dating or were lucky to find someone. You on the other hand didn't find someone (yet). This situation is YOUR situation and is not the responsibility of your friends. They don't have to stay single or not speak to guys for your benefit. Also you gave the example that when you and your friend were at a bar, she went off with a guy. But his friend also approached you and started a conversation. You said: "I didn't want to complain and talk about my friend so I didn't really say anything." Why? Even if you weren't into that guy but he was being friendly and talking to you. You were so fixated that your friend "ditched" you that you didn't realise that a guy actually approached you as well. If you did actually make friendly conversation with him too then how do you know you wouldn't have left with his number or he'd have been your boyfriend? Instead you basically chose not to speak to him. You have no obligation to be in a relationship, you can be single. But to me it actually sounds a bit like you're avoidant of actually being in one. When the guys approached you to dance the other day, would your friend really be mad if you briefly danced with one guy or got his number? Did you really reject them all for your friend, or you did it for yourself? Just something to think about.
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