BlueOrchids

dre 7 gave you fabulous insight and advice.....just accept it as it is, it seems to be a very wholesome, honest situation. she gave you all of the answers. doesnt seem as if she gives you much reason to read in between the lines. all i can say is you NEVER know what is just around the corner. 2nd chances exist of course, but i dont think that is your situation. i dont believe you missed, if you will, your first chance. maybe she needs to learn a few good lessons before she realizes all that you have to offer. but for now, take what you have learned and put it into action. in my opinion, she seems to be intellectually attracted to you, maybe not physically??? as for the continuing to be friends, refer back to Dre 7's post...good luck

are you sure this is the kind of relationship you want? sounds to me like you are unhappy with a lot of aspects here, but you feel that you have to hold onto him...if this is so, why? if you are unhappy with the way things are going, let him know....dont try so hard to read between the lines...sounds to me as if you are very concerned about the words.....when someone loves you, and you love them, you know, you shouldnt have to battle someone to get them to tell you how they feel for you,that is usually when you know something is up with them... . you are speaking of love, but you two are not in a relationship? why is this? what makes you think that he is seeing another? bear in mind that sometimes love takes time to grow, and if you really enjoy someone, and spend lots of time with them, and there is a romantic chemistry...love is what can happen.

exactly...its put in too braod of a category. the whole wolves thing was just an example of my biggest fear... but exactly, i was not upset at all...just trying to get a point accross. for the most part, i agree, its an excuse a lot of people make without even knowing what it is. like when people say other people are crazy. they are not really crazy,they're using the term loosely, if you met a real crazy person, you would know the difference. anyways, the important thing is that you have gotten past your fear, and are moving on with someone you feel confident about. so good luck to you...if you are still curious, Miss M knows a bit more on how to aquire more info..or you can go to my previous thread, the info is there.

my point before is not that "when people are afraid of commitment they are automatically CPhobic." thats ludacris. there are many reasons to be afraid of commitment. 1 being you may be with the wrong person. i am just saying, dont think it doesnt exist. doesnt mean that you are. and it could be very easy to give that excuse when you want out of something, but that doesnt make it so. most cp's dont even understand their own fears. they dont go around blurting "hey, im commitment phobic"...people are wrong for labeling everyone who has a fear of commitment, commitment phobic. there are also people who arent ready, broken hearted, jaded, with the wrong person and trying desperately to make it work, dont want commitment at the present, want to lead the single life, etc. this is not commitment phobic. this has nothing to do with commitment phobia. you cant go thru cr*ppy relationships, heartache and expect to be able to jump head on into the next relationship. that doesnt make you a CP.you have to heal, u have to be in the right frame of mind, have the " right person". then you can move forward to the commitment part again. But what about all of those people who truly believed they were with the right person, and it didnt work out? so the next time they feel that way, how easily can they trust that "right" feeling. thats a total tangent but.... stop labeling everyone that has a fear of commitment a commitment phobe. thats why no one believes its real. its not everyone. and one more question, can you over come your fear of small spaces? can you work towards letting go of that fear? it may take time, it may take a whole heck of a lot to sit in a narrow small room, but with the rigght help, motivation, mind set, you can work through it. however its much more difficult to force yourself thru the "scary" point of a relationship if its a true phobia to you. its more than being "scared", its an overwhelming fear of suffocation, and i guess a whole lot more. im not a cp, so i wouldnt know how it exactly feels. why is it such a big issue to say cp exists? so what if it does? does that make it harder for some of us to give advice? is it because then we cant just say "its the wrong person"? why is it so crazy that this fear might exist, please help me understand why we so often cant see both sides to this topic. in all honesty, it doesnt really matter if it exists or not. people are going ot believe what they choose to believe. but, there is nothing wrong with seeing both sides. i have a post about this somewhere in this same forum. someone there gave me great places to check out more about this topic. you can go there if you would like. shorty- the important thing is you got past your fear, and you see that is all that it was for whatever time you were dealing with it. if you have a healthy outlook on love and commitment, that is all that matters. it is sooo normal to have the fear after the only thing you know didnt work out. now you can just move forward. just a thought...think of this: what is something that you are deathly afraid of, something that no man could pay you enough money to do?something that terrifies you. apply that here.that feeling. speaking for myself, i know that im afraid of being hurt or left, or commiting to someone who may break me again, but the fear isnt greater than me walking through the dark woods at night, where wolves are lurking. thats my point. i believe that is how a CP feels. like commitment is their death.

until you have been in the situation, where it doesn't fit with what Ray Kay has said, you will not completely understand. yes, what she has said, and others has said makes perfect sense too, and commitment phobes dont fit every situation, or even most but dont dismiss it. just bec. someone walks away from you when you dont see anything wrong with the 2 of you together, doesnt automatically make them a CP. You all seem to be putting it in a very broad category without knowing much about it. its not broad at all. at times hard to detect, but as i've had this discussion before, if there is such a thing as someone who is claustrophobic why not someone who is afraid of Commitment? why would you rather believe it doesnt exist? what makes you so 100% sure? are you a doctor of the mind? have you conducted a study? have you been in every kind of relationship that exists? so, to wrap this up, I believe that CPhobia is totally real, but in most cases, it is someone who either isnt ready, unsure of their partner, or just plain flat out wants to see what else is out there and about a million other reasons people can find to leave someone. anything is possible, right?

nova seeker says: "the ironic thing is, the young men are getting exactly what they want, what they always wanted really ... sex without strings. I think you can put the label of 'liberation' on that if you wish, but it certainly doesn't seem particularly liberating to me ... it seems like the young men get exactly what they've always wanted. " Exactly. which is why marriage and the "old" way of life no longer exist {at least its not common or it doesnt last}. it seems to me that its getting to the point of women dont need men, and men dont need women. we can have all of the perks for free! men want that one thing {yes, i know not ALL of them} and now women give it away bec. it is no longer frowned upon,and if men can do it so can women!!! they are looking to "change the game" so to speak, and so why in the world would anyone choose to commit when this is how the world works? yeah liberation, what happened to morals? right and wrong? now its anything goes, and people would probably end up saying it depends on each individuals idea of right and wrong. there is no end to this argument. i think its great that people arent afraid to do what they feel "good" about anymore, but i also feel like its the instant gratification of "good". it has nothing to do what is good for the soul,whats inside but what makes them feel like they have conquered something. the feeling wont last, and they soon take it a step further to get that "good" feeling back. i think people have always had this side in them, but now you get praise for lettin the raunch come out. when i go out, i usually end up going home thinking "what in sam h**l is going on out there?" im disturbed. strong women are amazing, i am one of them, and im even sexy, but being sexy isnt being 1/2 dressed, but that isnt even the point. there is so much more to sexy. the world portrays the cheap version of sexy, there is nothing to it, no substance, just a certain attitude of "i do what i want", "i use men"...{which i can understand this portion of rebellion considering that in all honesty woman have been used for quite some time, and have just come to the point of, okay then i can use you too}. the body is a beautiful thing, and showing it off at certain times, understandably makes you feel powerful. obviously the men dont run away if your cute lil tummy is showing, or if your breasts are making themselves known. so yeah, its easy to feel powerful when men fall all over you when you wear a half shirt. but its not real power. sorry for the little rant, but my friend and i were just talking about the above. i dont understand what provokes people to take things as far as they do.

well, at this point in time he was also in a deep depression, it lasted for some time actually. i read that when in a deep depression, you can lose your sexual appetite. i also remember one time, after we made love that he looked at me as i was, and said, "do i still have it?".....and also some of the other things you say fit as well, but his pulling away made me so insecure that i would always ask where he was what he was doing, who was there, and he would just be so annoyed with this, he would shut off. also, the condom incident...we had just arrived to our hotel for the evening in another state, i went into the backseat, and they they were in the pocket in the back, i took them out, said what is this? and he said that they were our old condoms.....i dont remember if the box was sealed or not....i walked away from him, he followed me into our room, threw the condoms against the wall, and yelled "i cant believe OUR old freakin condoms are gonna ruin our night!" and he seemed so convincing, i didnt think about it 2wice, after that he looked at me and said that i have been the only one he has even touched since we started dating {casually} let alone kiss.......... i dont know, he seemed and usually is i must add, very sincere..........just exploring the idea. once again i am not with this man anymore, for other reasons.

thanks guys.... yeah i guess you are right, its funny bec. the thoughts didnt even really take form in my head till recently.....it was strange bec i was reading over my old diary entries {yes i still do this} and then i was reading something that i so innocently wrote, and disregarded, and i was thinking holy s**t!! how did i miss that one?! of course as you said, i guess I DIDNT WANT TO SEE IT. Anyways, i read over them every now and again to remember why i have made the decision i have made. as you all know, its so hard to remember when all you want to do is hear them laugh again, etc. the stability of the relationship {or lack there of...in my case meaning the stable part was the fact that it was never stable, but never gone}dont know if that makes any sense. anyways it just allows me to remember the pain i have been through. i guess i will never really know for sure, and its still hard to picture him betraying me that way, but i guess that is what we all say ahhh this is rough....why doesnt love just come easy, why is it so darn confusing 90% of the time!!!!!!!!!!!!!!its weird bec. its actually taken up till now to feel the loss, the emptiness, the fact that it is real. okay im gonna stop now. i know i did the right thing and that is all that matters!!!!!!!!! thank you

agreed with nova. think about what YOU WANT, does she give you that? if the answer is no, then why prolong something that makes you feel hurt? sounds to me that she doesnt want you, or anyone, just the attention of the opposite sex. if she was really interested in you she wouldnt flirt with waiters, or hairdressers, she would simply be flirting only with you. it is plain to see that she is mind screwing you just enough to keep you around, and keep you interested and wondering. But doesnt seem as if shes ever really going to let it go further. seems like she just wants to have fun, and capture the attention of the male specimen, i highly doubt she is ready for any kind of relationship if her behavior is really as you say. just walk away knowing that you didnt screw with her, and she is missing a good thing. what is it that she has to offer that makes you want her? if she treats you like she does, you need to turn around and say,"i deserve better"....dont waste your time on this. think of the pain she makes you feel, and put on one of those songs that makes you feel strong, and encouraged {when you start to feel weak},go for a ride, or a walk with music, do 100 jumping jax, write down how you feel in that moment, and then read it to yourself out loud, call a friend, or come on here, and wait for the feeling to pass...it will.

THANK YOU EVERYONE. I just want to make it clear that i am not with this person right now. these are some things that had happened a bit prior to the break up. and the other night i was just going over some things in my head, and some new things occurred to me. i had dismissed any questions i had re: his behavior. its called denial, and i didnt realize how good i was at it. he does clean up after himself thatis what was so weird. and if it was there, it was from me, but since he withdrew completely sexually (red flag i know) and gave the excuse that he had too much on his mind, then why would he have cum on his bed? if you are not in the mood you are not in the mood wether you are pleasuring yourself or not. doesnt make sense. as for the date, no i didnt check. but i am not with this guy. but was curious if my little clues were indeed little clues. never dealt with a cheater before, and bec. i am not one in any way shape or form, it did not even occur to me that it was a possibility. HELLO, NAIVE!!!!

No, I am not in this relationship right now. There were just many things going on and i think i may have passed over a lot that i shouldnt have. condoms in the car, when we dont use(said they were from when we didn use them, but i was n his car before i saw them and they were not there), lack of sexual interest in me, but cum on his sheets(says its from himself, which is possible). basically just curious about some of the tell tale signs so I can put certain things together in my head. It never occurred to me before, but boy am i naive!!!!!!!!

Hello everyone Q: What are some things to look for in a cheating partner? Just a basic question really, from your experiences, or just anything you know about this would be helpful. Just want to evaluate a situation.

ok lavendar, get with it here. You know exactly what is going on you would just rather ignore it. He has obviously cheated {hellooo?!} and now that that didnt work to get you back, he has now twisted it in another way, to see if that works, come on...this is too much stress, dishonesty, and god knows what else. you may have left him first off, but dont validate his actions. you hurt his feelings, so what, many of us have been hurt by people, but you didnt do it purposely, you didnt go out and say ha ha im going to hurt my boyfriend!!! but he turned around and thought, im gonna get her back, im going to hurt her like she hurt me. that says a lot about him. now i have had someone leave me, and come back {granted situatuion is a little different} and when they came back i chose to forgive their choice, and move forward bec. i loved them. so if he chose to take you back, then he was choosing to accept and forgive your prior decision. DO NOT i repeat DO NOT make any excuses for him. you will only be setting yourself up for disappointment. once he sees how far he can push you, he will keep testing his boundaries until he has broken you down so far, that you are even more confused than you are now. some things, unhealthy things just need to end. feelings may still be there but that doesnt mean much of anything except that there is a genuine care there. feelings that wont go away doesnt make it meant to be. Its not pure anymore, you can either walk away with a lesson or stay and inevitably learn a few more. its your choice, but i am advising that you get out before things get more twisted. in the back of your mind you will always be thinking, is he lying? look what cheating has done to your mother...learn from her as well. not that your choices should be based on her preference, but you have seen what damage infedelity for whatever reason, can cause then why would you allow yourself to be a helpless victim too. dont act helpless, make a solid decision knowing you have YOUR best interest at heart.get out before it happens again. No, there is no justification, none. believe it or not, there is something better out there.

i agree with you annie. i dont want to change him. i would much rather move on from the situation entirely than try to convince someone that they dont have to walk away from me. i dont really want to waste anymore years. i love him deeply thats why this is so hard, but i dont want to have to wake up everyday wondering if this is the day he will leave again. its bound to happen. he said he wants to be a better man, and start a "real women man commited relationship" but somehow, as ms. M said, i feel they are words, and only words, backed up by a true love, and desire to be with me. only problem is,i think he is afraid of the way he feels. i feel as if the situation will keep repeating itself. AND i dont think he would be willing to even admit he has a problem. it would probably end up being my fault in his eyes ("if you didnt....") as ms. M has written, i basically am just trying to understand what his real problem is..... i cannot change him. i want to find out why he does what he does. long before i had even wanted to admit this may be the issue, it was apparent to many others. and he is such a wonderful person that it is terribly hard not to give him the benefit of the doubt. but from my angle, here i was, three times willing to take him back even though he had walked out on me and shattered my heart. i never even brought his departures up, i just simply believed that this time would be different. it is hard to let him go bec. i know he is not trying to hurt me, but at the same time maybe i should move on and create something new and pure with another. not saying this will happen off the bat, it could take a long time, but it is worth it not to have to go through this agony any more. now im just worried about the day he will return, bec. i dont know how i am going to say all of this. i hate to see ive hurt someone. and i know he "expects" from me what he always gets, another chance.

thank you DN..... Last nite i checked the site again, and i was a bit frusterated. i could understand what others were saying, but then it occurred to me that, i do believe "commitment phobia" is a possible phobia. it also occurred to me that each person here stating their opinion, in fact did not know just how in love we are/were...that maybe they were taking a stand from a view where one person isnt entirely in love, where they maybe were just biding their time, waiting for something better, and their whole heart wasnt with the partner they didnt want to commit to. and please dont tell me that you can love someone and still not be right for them. i think we each feel and possibly know deep inside, what we are dealing with when someone leaves us. we say we dont understand, and sometimes we dont, but other times, the truth is so simple, we can hardly stand to believe it. my point with that is, im not blind, none of us are, sometimes it just takes a liitle longer for us to see what we dont want to. i think i have a good idea of what im dealing with. the other thing that occurred to me which made me believe that it is true phobia, is my friend Joe. He is a catch, beautiful, hysterical, sweet, kind, honest, financially stable, but has never had even one relationship in his life....and its not bec he hasnt met the "right" one, bec he hardly gives anything more than a 1 conversation chance, before he decides that he doesnt want to give it a 2nd. once again let me emphasize, NEVER had a relationship. this is a man who wont commit to a solid plan of how he wants to spend his friday nite, or commit to a telephone call, and he calls it "spontaneous". my closest girlfriend and him have this funny connection, you see it in their eyes, they connect differently, she has known him longer than i, and he has yet after nearly 10 years, addressed the situation, the feeling, anything. and my girlfriend has come to terms with the fact that he never will. basically my point is, that here is a man who has thrown a prfectly amazing beginning to a special relationship (w hich they have anyway) away. and its not bec she's the WRONG PERSON, its because he is so deathly afraid of setting something in "stone". of the certainty of a title, of not having complete freedom, of changing his mind, of being responsible for someone elses heart, of being completely vulnerable....how some of you can sit and decide that there is no such thing, is beyond me, not everyone is so simple, not everyone can run after something and never stop, there are different types of people, circumstances, pasts, and you cant dismiss someones uncertainty with the simple response of"you must be the wrong person"......once again, yes that response holds truth in many circumstances. i know im not different than anyone else, or deserve anymore, and there is a possibility that he may just feel i am "wrong" for him, but in my heart, and in my head, i doubt that very strongly. this is a man who has trouble sticking to any certain career path, and is afraid to go after the one he really wants, feeling as if there is no way he can accomplish this. yes there are self esteem issues here as well, mixed with the fear of knowing that his fate would in some way be certain......some people dont like certainty, some people need it, and want it. i know i dont mind it. but some people like to come and go as they please, and couldnt see the "right " person if the right person were wearing a sign that said"hi, i am *blank* g. *blanks*'s right person, if you are him, please claim me", these are the guys/women that would say "are you sure?you know there could be 2, 3, 4, 20 of us, and well, i dont know if i want to claim you, as i am not certain you dont belong to another *blank* G. *Blank*".....i dont know anything for sure, but i do know that as DN said, if there are people who are afraid of small spaces(and no one denies this one), there is definitely a HUGE possibility that there are people who are afraid of committing their lives to one person who they are in charge of choosing. oooooh look at that, i have another idea, people who doubt themselves couldnt possibly feel as if they have picked the right person, if they are always doubting themselves and their decisions. p.s. im not stating a fact, its just an idea.