Carnatic

I think people are still assuming that this must be down to something in the OP's personality... suggesting jobs that might be more suited to someone who is stern. But the point is that she might be a cutesy overfriendly type and maybe doesn't want to be treated as if she is otherwise. It sucks because there's not much can be done but everyone's entitled to rant.

Thanks... I just hope I can see myself in a better light. I always felt that my many moral failings... 'lazy, inconsiderate, aloof, self-absorbed, superior' were unfair... that I wasn't those things even though everyone seemed to believe I was. But it's difficult when everyone thinks that of you. You start to wonder if maybe you're the one that's wrong, that you feel like you're trying your hardest but clearly everyone else tries even harder. I wanted to believe that I was doing my best but as I got older just started to feel that I mustn't be, I must be lying to myself if I believe that I am. I started to feel that 'bad people' must also be misunderstood and started to empathise more with villains and monsters, thinking that well if I'm a bad person from other's perspective but feel different myself the same must be true of others. sigh. It's been a long road.

First, a disclaimer. I'm not currently diagnosed with ADHD though I have an assessment coming up after a psychiatrist following a screening appointment felt it was likely I would be diagnosed (I was also screened for ASD but that was seen as unlikely and I wasn't put forward for assessment). I wouldn't normally make a post like this, I don't want to come across like I'm trying to self-diagnose or give myself permission to keep failing in life. I've been struggling with low self worth my entire life which has affected my ability to form relationships and to look after my own mental health, and have been through therapy many times for depression, anxiety and PTSD with no significant change to my overall mood and while the screening focussed on more practical things such as my organisation skills (or lack of), I'd heard more and more about how ADHD could be the cause of low self-worth and looked into it a bit. Probably the main thing contributing to my self worth was feeling judged constantly going right back to school (in fact, especially when I was a child) as I would struggle with certain things; paying attention, following instructions (accurately), following step-by-step procedures, organising my time, punctuality, procrastination etc. I felt I was trying really hard, really giving people all the attention I could, trying to keep my mind on track, trying to remember what it was I was supposed to be doing and doing things in the way that I was supposed to do them instead of running short on time and forgetting about the procedures I was supposed to be following as I rushed to complete at the end. These sort of difficulties have followed me into my working life and made it difficult for me to hold down a job. I'm currently self-employed, which is also difficult but at least nobody is judging me on how I work. As a child, my shortcomings were constantly put down to moral failings. I was seen as aloof, self-absorbed, arrogant and generally my lack of attention, letting down others in group work and disregarding instructions was seen as a sign that I thought I was better than everyone else and that my way was better than anyone else's. This judgement always really hurt as I believed myself to be a kind and attentive friend, yet how could I be right when everyone else, including almost all grown-ups saw me as pretty much the opposite to how I saw myself. I grew up feeling that I couldn't be trusted to know myself, or love myself, that I was failing spectacularly to be the person I wanted to be. As an adult I still have this feeling of a broken self-image, that I don't know myself, that my own feelings of who I am are lies I've told myself. I fear that I might even be a narcissist who has an inflated sense of self worth because the way I see myself deep down clearly isn't the way I actually am. I try really hard to be attentive to the point of people-pleasing. I'm not really looking for advice as such, my assessment is in December and we'll see where things go from there and if there is any way my sense of self can be salvaged, but I wondered if these words rang true for anyone else.

I feel your pain. I'm similar, it's just how my face looks. I have downward pointing creases in the corners of my mouth that give the impression of me frowning and just generally quite a saggy face, so gravity will do its thing, that's only getting worse as I get older. People will tell me to smile more but they never seem to understand that it still hurts to be judged as someone who is miserable, like they just seem to assume that regardless of what you say you are miserable. Nobody can just go around grinning 24/7, if you do people will probably think you're a moron and you'll probably start to get a sore face, but some people have faces that look naturally like slight smiles, even if they are in a bad mood they look happy so it works both ways.

Well yeah I wasn't referring to the OP's experience or saying that it's the same as any of those things, I was referring to my own... really only because the OP kept saying that he was the only one who couldn't find a partner, like I wasn't trying to say 'hey let's talk about my issues' only 'I have issues too'. But then someone came along to analyse my issues and this is where we are now. I don't really want to talk about this I want to focus on the OP's issues too, but also I'm going to say 'hey actually' if people start saying my issues are just down to having my ego bruised, or I chose to have my confidence dented.

Yes I reacted because Batya said it was my choice to let what happened to me affect me, and has done so in the past too. Not related to the OPs situation but all I wanted to do was add my experience since the OP thinks he's the only one, not have it picked apart by a woman who seems to be able to shrug off everything that happens to her.

So if someone punches me in the face and busts my nose would you argue that while I didn't choose to get punched I did choose to bleed? And if that's not the case for my nose when why is it for my brain. What about soldiers suffering PTSD, would you tell them that they chose to be affected by the things they saw?

Everything is a choice to you isn't it? I don't think I've ever seen a thread where someone has said they have an issue, whether confidence, dating, mental health, where you haven't at some point said 'it's a choice'. I know that's your personal ideology when it comes to mental health issues, I find it kinda toxic. Yes, being in an abusive relationship dented my confidence, some people have it a lot worse... some people don't survive them so I'm fine with saying my mental health suffered as a result of what I experienced.

I get your frustration that sometimes when you say you're having difficulty meeting women to date you get people telling you to do things you're already doing. Of course nobody on this site knows you, so it's not their fault if they read your posts and then suggest going out more or doing more activities. This sort of thing can make you frustrated and defensive, it does to me anyway and then that makes it look like you have an attitude problem. It's the reason why I'm more in favour of open discussion than one person with a problem and everyone else offering solutions and I'd rather ask someone another question than give them an answer. From my perspective too, the more that people (my friends, or people online) suggest things like this, the more it can make me feel at a loss to explain why I can't find women who are interested in me. If people say 'why don't you talk to women, or why don't you join clubs for activities' and I already do these things then people like myself and the OP can be drawn towards the conclusion that maybe we're just too ugly and there's no getting over it. Hopefully it's something else, and I don't expect someone who doesn't know me on the internet to have the idea but again that's why I prefer open discussions. If you're interested in my perspective OP, I did have a girlfriend before I turned 30, but only one, when I was 27, for around a year and half and she was quite obviously (to those around me) only interested in having somewhere to live and not really interested in me at all, so yeah that dented my confidence.

Out of interest OP, what is your sense of style like, are you able to describe the kinds of clothing that appeal to you, or that you are most likely to wear out of the house? It's a factor in attraction, and something that can work in your favour if you are naturally unattractive. It's subjective of course, I know the way I look wouldn't appeal to women who are after a clean-cut understated professional-looking guy, but it's a personality thing and I'm working under the assumption that a woman I'd be attracted to would be put off by a clean-cut understated professional-looking guy. You want to be visually appealing but it's also about trying to say 'this is what my personality is like'. All that said, it isn't plain sailing. Dressing up draws attention and if your physical features, face etc aren't especially attractive then sometimes it does feel like you're showcasing that. Sometimes I do feel like I'm not attractive enough to be allowed to dress the way I do, particularly if I've attracted unkind comments from people. I mentioned earlier in this thread about people coming up to me and telling me I'm ugly, it doesn't happen if I dress down, and go out always with just a hoody and jeans... as I did for a spell in my early thirties, but I don't like that. Maybe some people feel that if you dress up then you must think that you're attractive and that it's up to them to give you a dose of reality, I dont know, but it does mean I feel more self-conscious for having put in the effort to look good with how I dress and style myself. I know that I can be eye-catching, especially with my hair, which is quite distinctive, and that invites scrutiny, and I do feel that even if I just had very average and plain features I'd feel more like I was just seen as pulling it off and less as a curiosity because an ugly guy is trying to be all stylish. I don't know whether your style is similar but I mean these things regardless of whether your style is more colourful and bohemian, clean-cut and professional or whatever.

I never said I couldn't drive.

The whole driving thing really is a bone of contention huh. Honestly I'd recommend just leaving that topic alone because people aren't gonna agree on it, it depends where you live and to an extent what age and social circles you move in. Yes there are plenty of things that you can do if you have access to a vehicle and a number of these things can make you a better date (however I would not expect a woman I've just dated a few times to get in a car with me and wouldn't ask her to) but unless you live somewhere where cars are a key cultural thing and/or places are so spread apart with poor public transport so you would struggle to get about without a car then it's likely it's a non-issue. I couldn't tell you which people in my circle of friends drive, unless I've actually had a lift of them before, and there are people I've known for years who don't know that I drive because there's not been a situation where I've driven them anywhere... and I'm 39, but every circle of friends I've had, whether at school, university or the places I've lived since, it's been a minority who drive and nobody really cares or asks whether you can or can't. I learned to drive at 19 but didn't own a car until I was 25, I've never lived anywhere where not driving would be a big disadvantage. It sounds like in some places it's a key thing about you up there with 'do you drink/smoke' and do you 'want/have children' which is fair enough, in some places it's a cultural thing and in some places it's just an essential thing.

I haven't watched the video lolita shared, and I guess you might be aware then of some of the things he has said as the argument you make about not agreeing with everything he says is fairly common. He does sometimes say things I'll admit that I don't disagree with but anyone can do that, it's unlikely there's anyone who ever existed who I 100% disagree with, however I view these sorts of things (and I'm not on board with his more soft-conservative views either so there's that) as just fluff that serves the purpose of elevating his overall view men's place and women's place. I haven't watched everything he's ever done either but I don't subscribe to the view that you can't criticise someone until you're totally familiar with everything they've, like you have to watch every single video before your critique can be considered valid. In case anyone isn't aware of some of his more objectionable views, the first one I can recall is him blaming a man who was angry that women weren't interested him going on a killing spree, killing six people, not on the man himself, or the culture that says men are entitled to sex if they're nice guys (this was the incel by the way) but on female promiscuity. He also argues that the reason men are in so many high powered jobs is because men are simply better at those jobs and that patriarchy is actually just a meritocracy.

I notice we're back on the topic of driving. I don't think the OP has said where he's from, but the idea of being able to drive and sometimes also owning a car being an essential marker of adulthood does vary depending on where you live and what age group you're in. I would say that for the majority of the world's population though, whether or not you're able to drive by the age of 30 is a non-issue and if you're dating then the person you're dating may have no idea whether you drive or not. I don't care, I've never been on a date with a woman who cared and there's no correlation I can think of between which of my friends drive and relationship stating / dating success.

He just stands for everything I stand against, and I know people will claim he's misunderstood but I've seen enough of his content to have decided he isn't misunderstood he's just a nasty, misogynistic, bigoted demagogue.