Love and religion

Nitemarehippy · 07-21-2004, 07:54 PM

I think I need some advice...I've been with my boyfriend for a little over 2 years now.There are many differences between us.One of the most important ones is religion.He's a Christian,and I'm Wicca.So tonight we were discussing religion (I will never EVER make that mistake again...) And he said he believed everyone that doesn't believe in Jesus would go to hell.So I asked him if he thought I would,and he said yes, probably.Well,I guess it makes sense,considering what he believes in,but for some reason it really hurt me to hear him say that.What does this mean for us?And if he loves me,and thinks that I'm going to hell,shouldn't he be trying to save me or something??I don't know,I just wanted to hear someones opinion on this...

Hilde from Norway

mercurydreams · 07-21-2004, 08:25 PM

That is a hard one. Religion causes so many people to split up that are otherwise perfect for each other.

Tell him you felt hurt that he said he thinks you are going to go to hell. Ask if he cares. If you are wondering why he is not trying to save you, maybe he thinks that the direct aproach will scare you off.

I know religion is a difficult topic to talk on when your views are different. But if you have been together this long and see a future together you have to talk about it, or later on it will just come between you. Don't argue about it though. Just tell him what you believe and ask him questions about his beliefs. Even if the religions are very different, you might find that you have some common beliefs about some things.

jakebarnes · 07-21-2004, 08:31 PM

Hi there,
well I think this is quite serious.
I' have to admit in the first place, that I've never heard the term Wicca,
no offence, but what I'm going to say just doesn' t depend on that.
Being Christian for myself, I am just disappointed every time I come to know tstories like yours. I think I don't have to tell all this about friendly coexistence of religions, this should be in our minds forever, particularly in Europe, where there were so many wars in the name of religion, not to mention the crusades.
I'm really amazed, when young people act like your boyfriend. Has he never heard of the enlightment or everything?
But apart from this historical approach, which I hope you forgive me, talking like this is of course very nasty and cruel of him. You have every right to feel hurt. I don't want to question your relationship at all(you mentioned other differences, what are they about?), but in my opinion, he should apologize for his comments and he should promise to do this never again. What would be the worth of a relationship, otherwise? And even if he apologises, what if he can't help thinking this? Again, it seems quite serious to me, but it's only my view, and I hope you will receive more opinions.

the_tiger_striped_cat · 07-21-2004, 08:31 PM

First my rant:
Sound's like your bf is closed-minded. I don't put any stock in the opinions of die-hard atheists or the die-hard theists (esp fundamentalists). You'll see that generally see that the die hard atheists are "reaction responding" to their childhood, and the die-hard theists have been externally indoctrinated beyond belief. The most intelligent in history realize that after we die it doesn't really matter whether we believed in God or not, as long as we have something we can live and die for.

IMPORTANT PART

Quote:

It depends on how important religion means to you. It already sounds it's important to him. Did he bring up this conversation topic? He sounds like he has to straighten his priorities if he got involved with someone who is Wicca and he couldn't live with something like that. Does he practice his faith? Why didn't this conversation come up sooner? I don't really get it. Is this a 'deal breaker' with him as far as your relationship is concerned? He must of known you were Wicca before. Why did he stay in a relationship that he knew wasn't going to work (if it was a 'deal-breaker').
Is there something else going wrong in the relationship? Maybe this is just a pretext?

Where do you each stand? If it is important enough for either of you, then you should just go your separate ways. Chemistry is important, but so is compatibility. If both of you don't really care, and he just thinks you're going to hell, then you might be able to make it work. But then again, I can't see this being just a talking point considering, based on your reaction, he was so worked up about it.

But if you do get in another discussion with him. I've always found the best case against the "you're going to hell" crowd is to resort to the fact that you're doing EVERYTHING you think is right. It's not that you're actively defying God. I mean why would God send you to hell? Seriously think abou [color=#fa7777]* [/color][color=#fa7777]* [/color][color=#fa7777]* [/color]. Is it because you were Wicca? Because you didn't accept JC as your personal lord and savor? You were only doing what you thought was right. Who you are is largely if not entirely the product of your past and circumstances beyond your control. So basically God is sending you to hell because you were unlucky. Don't you think that there would be a REALLY good chance that you're bf would be Wicca if he had grew up EXACTLY like you did? What if he grew up in a Wiccan convent on the moon and never heard of Christianity? Would he suddenly just know what Christianity is? How would God save him?

Theses beliefs are comical. You see the Catholics, Protestants, Mormons, Hindus, Muslims, and basically all long established religions have realized long ago that arguing that only a certain group of people are going to heaven is an untenable position--because salvation is then tantamount to the roll of the dice.

HA. Sorry this is mostly a rant. HA! And I'm Christian too!

Duderanomi · 07-21-2004, 09:12 PM

Wicca is pointless, just convert to make him happy.

parisian_pink · 07-22-2004, 01:45 AM

Ok, this is a tough question. Living very near the borders of the Bible belt, I can say that I have encountered much of the same myself. I am Jewish, and I have friends who are Hindu, Atheist, Wiccan, and more, and from discussions had with them, I can tell you how difficult it is to run into people who tell you that you are going to Hell--especially people you love. The difficulty here is that SINCE they love you, they sometimes think it is their duty to "save" you, or they wouldn't be showing you love. THAT is the tough part. If this happens, I find that the best thing to do is to simply try your darndest to smile and say, "I know how very much it must hurt you to think of my eternal soul being compromised in any way. I appreciate and understand that by sharing your beliefs with me, you are attempting to get closer to me and to help me, which I appreciate, but there must also come a time where you must realize that if God had wanted the same path for me that he wanted for you, he wouldn't have given me the beliefs and ideas that he did."

Generally, even if you don't believe all this yourself, it is a very neutral and simple way to let him know that you respect his beliefs, but need the same consideration shown to yours. Unfortunately, many fundamentalists raise their children to beleive very specific things about the superiority of their faith, and it allows for little tolerance of others. Educating your boyfriend on the pagan roots of many Christian traditions, for example, or preparing for him some information that he could read about your faith and practices, might demystify your beliefs and bring you closer together.

keep45 · 07-22-2004, 08:03 AM

I have to agree with others. That was a bad move he did, and not nice at all. You should, as others suggested, ask him if he cares about you 'going to hell' and/or if he wants to 'help you' in any way, so you wouldn't 'go to hell'.

Note that I've put all those things in ''s, as I am an atheist. Don't flame me yet!

I may be an atheist but I'm also open minded. The person I love is a Christian, and it poses no problems for me. Heck, if she'd want me to become a beleiver, I could even try (although it probably wouldn't work), or at least go to the church, etc...

Why I'm saying this is just so you get another point of view. I don't believe in either your god (or gods - I'm sorry, I haven't heard of Wiccas yet, probably because I'm not interested in religion - no offence meant here!), or the Christian god, or any other, for that matter.

And as it was already said - it is important to have something in life to live for. If it's religion - that's great. If it's the person you love - great. If it's both - great.

And to sum this rant up (excuse me

) - what he did was really not appropriate, even if he's a hardcore Christian. You should confront him, especially because it hurt you.

Good luck!

Nitemarehippy · 07-22-2004, 08:37 AM

Well,I just wanted to say thank you for your replies!And aside from this religion business we really have a great relationship!
And religion is not really a deal breaker for any of us,so I think it will be allright!

Hilde!

Francis · 07-24-2004, 06:45 PM

Freedom of Religion

There is a fundamental difference between : 1. Expressing one's own opinion and 2. Trying to convert other people.

Everybody is entitled to freedom of thought, freedom of religion and freedom of expression.

I feel that when your bf told you that he thinks you are going to go to hell because that is what he believes, then he was just being honest and answered honestly to a question you asked. Would you prefer him to be dishonest and desguise his feelings and thoughts? He is entitled to believe that, we all have the right to grow at our own pace.

Now, if your bf said that in order to convert you, then he would be wrong for trying to change your beliefs, he would be trespassing against your rights.

In the same vein, if you try to convert him, then you will trespass upon his rights.

I am happy that the two of you are getting along and overcoming a problem that is not there, but in your own mind : people have the right to their opinion, if their opinion bothers, you then you have a problem, not them. In the same way, if someone finds fault with your ideas, then they have a problem, not you.

Take care!

Francis · 07-24-2004, 06:59 PM

In Reply to Parisian Pink's Comment :

When Christians try to convert you, they are then trespassing against your right to freedom of religion, just tell them the truth : that Jews did not accept Jesus as a messiah because Jews have major difficulties understanding how God, who is supposedly perfectly good and just, how is it that God chose to sacrifice his innocent and pure child in order to save the wicked sinners.

This is just absolutely contrary to justice! A fair and just God would normally protect the innocent and the pure and punish the wicked and the sinners.

However, according to them, God chose to do the opposite by punishing and torturing an innocent to protect the wicked forever, and that just seems rather unbelievable for Jews. It is no surprise that Jews never accepted Jesus as a messiah. The whole story sounds suspect, to say the least.

07-21-2004, 07:54 PM	#1
Nitemarehippy Offline Member Join Date: Jul 2004 Location: Norway Age: 28 Posts: 5	Love and religion I think I need some advice...I've been with my boyfriend for a little over 2 years now.There are many differences between us.One of the most important ones is religion.He's a Christian,and I'm Wicca.So tonight we were discussing religion (I will never EVER make that mistake again...) And he said he believed everyone that doesn't believe in Jesus would go to hell.So I asked him if he thought I would,and he said yes, probably.Well,I guess it makes sense,considering what he believes in,but for some reason it really hurt me to hear him say that.What does this mean for us?And if he loves me,and thinks that I'm going to hell,shouldn't he be trying to save me or something??I don't know,I just wanted to hear someones opinion on this... Hilde from Norway

07-22-2004, 01:45 AM	#6
parisian_pink Offline Member Join Date: Jul 2004 Location: Illinois, USA Age: 24 Posts: 49	Differences can be tough Ok, this is a tough question. Living very near the borders of the Bible belt, I can say that I have encountered much of the same myself. I am Jewish, and I have friends who are Hindu, Atheist, Wiccan, and more, and from discussions had with them, I can tell you how difficult it is to run into people who tell you that you are going to Hell--especially people you love. The difficulty here is that SINCE they love you, they sometimes think it is their duty to "save" you, or they wouldn't be showing you love. THAT is the tough part. If this happens, I find that the best thing to do is to simply try your darndest to smile and say, "I know how very much it must hurt you to think of my eternal soul being compromised in any way. I appreciate and understand that by sharing your beliefs with me, you are attempting to get closer to me and to help me, which I appreciate, but there must also come a time where you must realize that if God had wanted the same path for me that he wanted for you, he wouldn't have given me the beliefs and ideas that he did." Generally, even if you don't believe all this yourself, it is a very neutral and simple way to let him know that you respect his beliefs, but need the same consideration shown to yours. Unfortunately, many fundamentalists raise their children to beleive very specific things about the superiority of their faith, and it allows for little tolerance of others. Educating your boyfriend on the pagan roots of many Christian traditions, for example, or preparing for him some information that he could read about your faith and practices, might demystify your beliefs and bring you closer together. __________________ The only things to regret in life are the risks not taken.

07-24-2004, 06:45 PM	#9
Francis Offline Member Join Date: Jun 2004 Age: 39 Posts: 310	Freedom of Religion Freedom of Religion There is a fundamental difference between : 1. Expressing one's own opinion and 2. Trying to convert other people. Everybody is entitled to freedom of thought, freedom of religion and freedom of expression. I feel that when your bf told you that he thinks you are going to go to hell because that is what he believes, then he was just being honest and answered honestly to a question you asked. Would you prefer him to be dishonest and desguise his feelings and thoughts? He is entitled to believe that, we all have the right to grow at our own pace. Now, if your bf said that in order to convert you, then he would be wrong for trying to change your beliefs, he would be trespassing against your rights. In the same vein, if you try to convert him, then you will trespass upon his rights. I am happy that the two of you are getting along and overcoming a problem that is not there, but in your own mind : people have the right to their opinion, if their opinion bothers, you then you have a problem, not them. In the same way, if someone finds fault with your ideas, then they have a problem, not you. Take care!

07-24-2004, 06:59 PM	#10
Francis Offline Member Join Date: Jun 2004 Age: 39 Posts: 310	In Reply to Parisian Pink's Comment : In Reply to Parisian Pink's Comment : When Christians try to convert you, they are then trespassing against your right to freedom of religion, just tell them the truth : that Jews did not accept Jesus as a messiah because Jews have major difficulties understanding how God, who is supposedly perfectly good and just, how is it that God chose to sacrifice his innocent and pure child in order to save the wicked sinners. This is just absolutely contrary to justice! A fair and just God would normally protect the innocent and the pure and punish the wicked and the sinners. However, according to them, God chose to do the opposite by punishing and torturing an innocent to protect the wicked forever, and that just seems rather unbelievable for Jews. It is no surprise that Jews never accepted Jesus as a messiah. The whole story sounds suspect, to say the least.

07-21-2004, 08:25 PM	#2
mercurydreams Offline Member Join Date: Jul 2004 Age: 25 Posts: 30	That is a hard one. Religion causes so many people to split up that are otherwise perfect for each other. Tell him you felt hurt that he said he thinks you are going to go to hell. Ask if he cares. If you are wondering why he is not trying to save you, maybe he thinks that the direct aproach will scare you off. I know religion is a difficult topic to talk on when your views are different. But if you have been together this long and see a future together you have to talk about it, or later on it will just come between you. Don't argue about it though. Just tell him what you believe and ask him questions about his beliefs. Even if the religions are very different, you might find that you have some common beliefs about some things.

07-21-2004, 08:31 PM	#3
jakebarnes Offline Member Join Date: Jul 2004 Location: Germany Age: 32 Posts: 8	Hi there, well I think this is quite serious. I' have to admit in the first place, that I've never heard the term Wicca, no offence, but what I'm going to say just doesn' t depend on that. Being Christian for myself, I am just disappointed every time I come to know tstories like yours. I think I don't have to tell all this about friendly coexistence of religions, this should be in our minds forever, particularly in Europe, where there were so many wars in the name of religion, not to mention the crusades. I'm really amazed, when young people act like your boyfriend. Has he never heard of the enlightment or everything? But apart from this historical approach, which I hope you forgive me, talking like this is of course very nasty and cruel of him. You have every right to feel hurt. I don't want to question your relationship at all(you mentioned other differences, what are they about?), but in my opinion, he should apologize for his comments and he should promise to do this never again. What would be the worth of a relationship, otherwise? And even if he apologises, what if he can't help thinking this? Again, it seems quite serious to me, but it's only my view, and I hope you will receive more opinions.

07-21-2004, 09:12 PM	#5
Duderanomi Offline Join Date: May 2004 Location: Quebec Age: 24 Posts: 194	Wicca is pointless, just convert to make him happy.

07-22-2004, 08:03 AM	#7
keep45 Offline Member Join Date: Jul 2004 Location: Alone, in a dark place... Posts: 35	I have to agree with others. That was a bad move he did, and not nice at all. You should, as others suggested, ask him if he cares about you 'going to hell' and/or if he wants to 'help you' in any way, so you wouldn't 'go to hell'. Note that I've put all those things in ''s, as I am an atheist. Don't flame me yet! I may be an atheist but I'm also open minded. The person I love is a Christian, and it poses no problems for me. Heck, if she'd want me to become a beleiver, I could even try (although it probably wouldn't work), or at least go to the church, etc... Why I'm saying this is just so you get another point of view. I don't believe in either your god (or gods - I'm sorry, I haven't heard of Wiccas yet, probably because I'm not interested in religion - no offence meant here!), or the Christian god, or any other, for that matter. And as it was already said - it is important to have something in life to live for. If it's religion - that's great. If it's the person you love - great. If it's both - great. And to sum this rant up (excuse me ) - what he did was really not appropriate, even if he's a hardcore Christian. You should confront him, especially because it hurt you. Good luck!

07-22-2004, 08:37 AM	#8
Nitemarehippy Offline Member Join Date: Jul 2004 Location: Norway Age: 28 Posts: 5	Well,I just wanted to say thank you for your replies!And aside from this religion business we really have a great relationship! And religion is not really a deal breaker for any of us,so I think it will be allright! Hilde!