Brain says go, Heart says stay...

[buzz]

Hi All,
Looking for an open exchange of ideas here. Let me begin with some background, my wife and I have been married 16 years and have four kids ages 6 through 15. We dated for about 18 months before being married and lived together for almost a year of that time.

Now for my biggest problem, really since the marriage, her sex drive has dwindled, gradually at first and then sometime after child number three it just went away completely. Child number four was conceived on my birthday (yup, birthday sex). We know this beyond any shadow of a doubt due to the length of time between sexual encounters.

Anyway, I've always been a touchy/feely kind of guy, likes to give and receive affection, not afraid to openly show affection in public, I like sex and lots of it. Although she started out that way, over the years she has changed.

1. She just doesn't crave/need attention. Her needs are more about getting alone time or being able to go out with her girlfriends (which she doesn't have that many).
2. She has become very uptight, makes lists and constantly thinks about all the stuff she has to do (chores).
3. She suffers from depression the last six years. She has been taking meds for this and it helps, but I think a side effect is lowering her libido even more.

I've been unhappy with our romantic life pretty much since we have been married but over the last six years it has grown to new lows.

I work hard to give her what she needs, but she seems incapable of giving me what I need. I do half the chores around the house and am very active with child raising. Several years ago our youngest was getting to school age and she was wanting a career (she had always stayed home with the kids). So I put my career on hold for a bit so I could take a less important role at work and have a more flexible schedule while she went back to school and became an RN, which she has working as for the last year now. As I hoped, the new career has made her feel more empowered and she has made new friends through work. She really likes her job and where she works.

I try to make sure she has time to get out with her girlfriends. In fact a couple weeks ago she called me at work and was having a big fight with the 15 year old. She was stressed out so I get on the phone and call up her best friend who lives an hour away and arrange for her to go out and spend the night (I stay home and watch the kids and take the next morning off from work so she doesn't have to rush back from her friends). I do this sort of thing whenever she wants basically.

So here I am, feeling like I love her, but I need more than just my love to make things work. There is nothing worse than wanting to love someone and having them reject your sexual advances. I feel like I have done everything within reason to make her happy and allow her to be in "that place" where she can become interested in sex. But still it just never happens. She even regularly cancels on our weekly "date night" for one reason or another (usually she just isn't in the mood, is tired, has a headache). If I didn't press her, I don't think we would ever have sex......

I also work very hard to stay in shape, I work out 4-7 days a week and in all fairness am a very fit and attractive man.

I'm at the point where when I step back and look at the situation as if I were a friend of mine, I'd advise leaving, that the wife will never change and to find someone who will better suit your needs. Yet, I have a lot invested with her, four children (how will things go for them?). Money is not an issue, we have plenty, it is purely a question of do I go for happiness or do I continue to take a "hit" for the team and tough it out. I can see myself being very happy if only she could give of herself sexually. I really think it is beyond her ability to give this way and it leaves me with a big hole in my world.

I feel like our relationship is a chair that is missing one leg. The other legs are strong but one missing leg creates a bit of a balancing act, the whole thing could just flip on its side at any moment.

Thanks for listening.

[brokenpogostick]

That situation certainly stinks, my friend.

My husband and I have always had issues with lack of sexual encounters, but unlike your situation it's my husband that doesn't seem to be interested in sex. When we do have sex, it's awesome! But, unfortunately, it's dwindled down to maybe once a month or so. I feel your pain.

Perhaps you should seek the advice of a sex therapist. Or, see if your wife would go to the doctor and see if there are different anti-depressants that she can take that will not affect her libido so badly. I've been on anti-depressants before that did the same thing to me and it sucked horribly. Around that time, I was the one not interested in sex because my body just wouldn't get aroused. He would do everything right and my body would not respond. I stayed away from sex for a while because it was a bit embarrassing and not the most enjoyable. Maybe this is the case with your wife?

Have you sat down with her to tell her how you feel about all of this and give her a chance to explain?

[buzz]

I'm all about talking and have talked about this for many years with her. It is why I feel like I might be at the end of my rope now. We have gone to see a therapist once (not a sex therapist). She really thinks she knows what she will be told so it is a waste of time to her. Also, she feels like she has already discussed this with me and when I bring it up, she becomes very defensive and often times storms out of the room. She is extremely opposed to me speaking to family about things, so for example, no discussing with my brother about marriage issues.

I just think we have become very different people, both in what we want and need. I feel like there is something very big missing from our relationship but when you ask her, all her needs are met. She is very content and knows I'm a good husband and father. I know she is a great mother but the wife part is lacking an important piece for me (romance).

I see her folks and how they are around each other (they are constantly breaking up and getting back together). They maintain to addresses but didn't do that until her youngest brother was out of the house. I have to wonder if that is that track we are on if I stick it out. :-\

[savignon]

It seems reasonable to point out to her that while she's content and her needs are being met, you miss alone time with her, your date nights and your intimacy. It also seems reasonable to point out the pattern you see with her parents and say that you love her too much to want to end up like that.
I absolutely love your chair with 3 legs analogy....you're very good at expressing how you feel and she should be able to understand what your'e saying ....I hope she's able to really hear you and understand that you're giving more than your share right now. I agree that changing meds might help.
Open up this dialogue with her.
Best wishes

[90_hour_sleep]

have you ever considered relationship counselling? you mentioned that you had a therapy session at one point...and it wasn't received all that well. when was that? would it be worth trying that avenue again?

like you say...one leg is broken. if you leave...there's a good chance that you'll find the one broken leg...but will you find the other three as well?

a good counsellor will teach you how to listen(truly listen) to each other. this makes it possible to remove defensiveness and reactivity from your relationship.

might be worth another shot.

[Crazyaboutdogs]

In your entire post you have been focused on getting your sexual needs met..and it centres around you doing all this stuff for her and she doesn't return the favour by giving you sex. You talk about how you are in shape and how you like lots of sex and how you are openly affectionate in public. However..it seems you relate romance and intimacy simply in terms of sex...and perhaps she stopped having sex with you because she is feeling that she is simply your sperm receptacle rather than a human being. Sex is only one part of intimacy..intimacy is about special glances, loving glances etc...not all of it simply done as a prelude to doing the horizontal mambo within the next hour or so. I wonder if she feels truly romanced by you or if she just feels romance to you is about getting some sex and that is why she doesn't want. Problem is she doesn't seem to really want to talk about the issues and just sweeps it under the rug.

[buzz]

you could be right about her not feeling romanced but when I ask, she always tells me it isn't me, it is her, she just isn't interested. I only have what she tells me to go on. Because she isn't naturally an open person, I use to wonder if she was keeping something from me, but after all these years, I believe her, she just doesn't have these needs.

Yes, it boils down to sex. That sounds terrible, but honestly, it is all the romance that is missing which includes the sex. I want to have the flirty glances but she doesn't respond well that way. When I try to flirt, she says she knows that in the end I'm after sex.

So yes, I will concede your point, I want the sex. I feel I don't connect without it. People are different and our needs have not been a very good match for many years. I think that actually, she could do entirely without having a male companion.

I want to say that there are other things I miss, like talking about my dreams. I love to brainstorm about the future. I might say something like, "wouldn't it be cool to live on a sailboat when the kids are all grown." to which she will usually end the discussion by saying it isn't practical. That is usually the end of the discussion even though I might have been pricing sailboats and really wanted to at least talk about it. She has admitted to me it is hard for her to think beyond the next week, let alone years down the road. She is too concerned about making sure the bills are paid on time or that all the items she needs are on her grocery list. When I offer to take something off her plate, she refuses saying she already has a system for that or is concerned I won't be able to accomplish it.

I guess there is more to it than just sex. It started out just sex but has grown to be much more in my opinion. I have asked her time and time again for many years if there is anything i can do differently to make her more happy and she always says the same thing, that I am meeting all her needs.

[John Bendix]

Originally Posted by Crazyaboutdogs

In your entire post you have been focused on getting your sexual needs met..and it centres around you doing all this stuff for her and she doesn't return the favour by giving you sex. You talk about how you are in shape and how you like lots of sex and how you are openly affectionate in public. However..it seems you relate romance and intimacy simply in terms of sex...and perhaps she stopped having sex with you because she is feeling that she is simply your sperm receptacle rather than a human being. Sex is only one part of intimacy..intimacy is about special glances, loving glances etc...not all of it simply done as a prelude to doing the horizontal mambo within the next hour or so. I wonder if she feels truly romanced by you or if she just feels romance to you is about getting some sex and that is why she doesn't want. Problem is she doesn't seem to really want to talk about the issues and just sweeps it under the rug.

Certainly sex is only one part of intimacy.

But the part in bold above does include a leap. I do not see where you posted anything about "returning the favor" It seems that you were merely pointing out how your behavior does not warrant a closing down of physical intimacy.

I do not see how being affectionate, even in public, denotes romance and intimacy in terms of sex. How does being affectionate in public translate into only behaving that way to obtain sex?

The issue of depression seems to be something that needs to be addressed. Certain anti-depressants can have the side effect of decreased libido. Also going through perimenopause can cause hormone levels to drop. When testasterone levels drop in either male of female, decreased libido is a consequence.

Even without hormonal imbalances and use of anti-depressants, depressive illnesses can cause persons to lose the desire to engage in sexual activity for a host of emotional reasons.

Denial is both a consequence and a symptom of clinical depression. Not wanting to go to therapy or counseling and not wanting to discuss the issues that concern your relationship, are both indicators of denial.

[CatsMeeoow]

I was in a terrible relationship that I tried to make work for all the wrong reasons (we had a child together). It was a painful and tragic time in my life. I was grief stricken that my child was now a statistic of those growing up in broken homes.

It took a long time for me to get over it BUT thank god I did.... I was so settling. I thank my lucky stars that I did not settle for a man who couldn't give me what I needed sexually. Even when I am between relationships I'm far better off than having stayed with this man.

Sex is a very important part of a relationship between husband and wife in my opinion. Certainly life and children always affect its ups and downs but if you feel you've done all you could and this has been years maybe it is time to move on.

Clearly there will be issues to address like the welfare of the children. No one likes to create a situation where children now have two homes but children know when their parents are unhappy and that is equally unhealthy too.

I would take the steps to end the relationship. If that is not a wake up call to her then there will never be one.

Good luck....

[Crazyaboutdogs]

Originally Posted by buzz

you could be right about her not feeling romanced but when I ask, she always tells me it isn't me, it is her, she just isn't interested. I only have what she tells me to go on. Because she isn't naturally an open person, I use to wonder if she was keeping something from me, but after all these years, I believe her, she just doesn't have these needs.

Yes, it boils down to sex. That sounds terrible, but honestly, it is all the romance that is missing which includes the sex. I want to have the flirty glances but she doesn't respond well that way. When I try to flirt, she says she knows that in the end I'm after sex.

So yes, I will concede your point, I want the sex. I feel I don't connect without it. People are different and our needs have not been a very good match for many years. I think that actually, she could do entirely without having a male companion.

I want to say that there are other things I miss, like talking about my dreams. I love to brainstorm about the future. I might say something like, "wouldn't it be cool to live on a sailboat when the kids are all grown." to which she will usually end the discussion by saying it isn't practical. That is usually the end of the discussion even though I might have been pricing sailboats and really wanted to at least talk about it. She has admitted to me it is hard for her to think beyond the next week, let alone years down the road. She is too concerned about making sure the bills are paid on time or that all the items she needs are on her grocery list. When I offer to take something off her plate, she refuses saying she already has a system for that or is concerned I won't be able to accomplish it.

I guess there is more to it than just sex. It started out just sex but has grown to be much more in my opinion. I have asked her time and time again for many years if there is anything i can do differently to make her more happy and she always says the same thing, that I am meeting all her needs.

Sounds to me that sex is just a symptom of the underlying problem. When you were dating her and before you got married did you ever sense that she really really loved you and connected with you. Forget sex for a moment because as we all know, for many people having lots of sex does not necessarily translate into having very deep feelings for someone. There are a lot of people who go into marriages in order to have security and a family and are not necessarily in it for any real deep emotional bond with their partner. It sounds to me like it is possible she viewed marriage as simply a way to have the family and social standing of being married. As long as she has the appearances then she is happy with the status quo. Perhaps it is time to shake up her world and see what happens if you talk about the relationship being in serious trouble and you having doubts.