desicion to be made please help

[george262]

This is my first post here and am hoping to get some advice. Please bear with me its rather a long story.

I am 26 and have been with my current boyfriend for 4 1/2 years. The last 6 months have been really difficult for our relationship and I moved out recently. We still love each other a lot and I find it difficult to imagine life without him. He is very attentive and loving and we have such fun together. He is not without his faults (as I will explain later) but my jealousy can sometimes cause unreal fights. I make demands of him that I know are unreasonable but will shout and scream til I get my own way. For example, if he is out with his friends and isn't back exactly when he says he would be then I will call and cry down the phone till he comes home. I know this is unreasonable and it was the catalyst for our break up 6 months ago. He said that although he loved me that he felt I was controlling him and he wanted to have fun, I understood this and although heart broken I felt I had learned something to take to my next relationship. However over the next 6 months we saw more and more of each other until we mutually decided to give it another go. I am trying hard to control my tantrums and so far its going great.
Before I carry on I feel i should give you a little background into the beginning of our relationship. 6 months into our relationship he had an affair with one of my best friends. I say 'affair' I dont know the details i think it lasted about 2/3 weeks before they both called it off. They kissed on a night out when they were both drumk called each other a lot and met up another time after that and did not have sex. My BF says he developed a crush on her but that it never developed into anything except for the 2 kisses and the phonecalls. The 'friend' didn't offer any apology/explaination - anything! I decided at the time to stay with him and see how things panned out - although in hindsight it never did my jealousy any good. He has never since given me any reason to doubt him or his fidelity since.
Right back to the present day, another friend of mine who doesn't like my boyfriend felt I should see something on Friday, she showed me an email sent to her from my ex-best friend saying that my boyfriend pursued her relentlessly that he sent her texts saying that he dreams about her that he is crying all day because she doesn't return his messages, that he wanted her to come up to Leeds to stay in a hotel he was in while he was training for work (he was training in Leeds at this time because I went and stayed with him for a couple of nights myself) and that it was after this that he became colder towards her and she summed up it was because of guilt. I knew something was happening at this point I remember clearly thinking he was seeing someone else. So I am inclined now to believe if not all a lot of what she has said in this email.

My problem now, is this, it was 4 years ago, I love him very much, I can see us having a proper future together we have spoken of getting married before we had our mini break-up.

Now I know what I know should I forgive him? Should I bring it up at all? Should I confront him with it and let him give his side again? Knowing it will cause no end of heartbreak... If he really did love her what am I doing? Was he infatuated with her? (She is stunningly pretty)

Please someone give me some advice because I am lost...

[d24]

from the way you acted before i think you are lucky to have him and would urge you to keep the past in the past and forget about it. if he's giving you no cause for concern now then there's no problem. Trust however is fragile, and if you've lost it for him then you either need to mend it or forget it.

[george262]

I do trust him. This news though, is hurtful, like really hurtful, I feel like I did when I first found out. I can't help thinking that I'm second best.
I dont defend my past behaviour nor do I make excuses for it. It was wrong and I am under no illusions that most other men wouldn't have run a mile.
I just feel gutted.

[lostandadrift]

The absolute KEY to any relationship is open dialog about everything. It sounds trite, but cannot be overstated. I'm married 20 years and I know things go to crap when you lose the open dialog.
So you have to talk to him about all your concerns, and be prepared for him to talk about his. No use brushing things under the carpet, they always crawl out bigger and uglier, and remember, marriage is supposed to be forever.

[SamiJayne]

He broke your trust.
Not only did he do the dirty on you, he did it with your best friend.
The TWO people in the whole world that your suposed to be able to trust with everything. And there messing behind your back.

It doesn't matter who started what, they both wanted it. They both lied, and cheated.

Did the tantrums and fits accur AFTER the above?

Or have you always been insecure?

[george262]

Hmm.. I've probably always been a little insecure but I was definately more laid back previous to this. My ex who I am good friends with says I was always a little 'high maintainence' but never as bad as I am.
I did speak to my boyfriend about this last night actually. He said it is a complete fabrication and that was probably bitter when she wrote it. And that the friend who showed it to me has behaved shockingly. I dont know what to think

[SamiJayne]

Then he has no right whatsoever to have a problem with your jealously. He caused it to become like this.

With your BEST friend for gods sake.

Maybe you should try relationship guidence? In England it costs, but it's not a lot. And if you both love each other you'll make the effort to try to improve things..

Wish you the best of luck! and your braver than I am. I'd have left my best friend, and my boyfriend if they'd ever done that to me.

[george262]

My reasons for forgiving my bf were the very reasons I couldn't forgive my friend. It was very early on in our relationship which was a slow burner anyway. I had been good friends with my friend for over 5 years and felt that we had an unbreakable bond with each other. In essence I felt more betrayed by my friend than I did by my BF. To compound this my friend, as soon as she knew I had found out called me up and firstly denied it out right and then put all the blame on to the other party and never once apologised to me. She was more worried about the fact she may lose not only me but our whole friendship group. When I confronted my BF about it, I felt he was genuinely remorseful and at times brutally honest whilst I questioned him.

I am hoping my jealousy is under control - we'll see tonight as he is out with the boys, I have arranged a night out with my girlfriends so I don't drive myself mad. I really want to make this work now and know that controlling my behaviour is key to this.

It's not that I dont trust him because I do when I think rationally its just that I get irrational very easily.

I have mentioned relationship counselling to him before (I think he thought I was joking) but I don't think its something he would consider. He's a man's man and says things like "I dont believe in depression" it might be that he would attend to keep me happy but I have serious doubts as to weather he would take it seriously.

[odile]

Definitely sounds like a difficult situation.
You're right, though, about it being time to make some changes, because holding out in the pattern you've established is not sustainable; it's time to make it or break it.

From what you are saying, you have never in the past had these jealousy/control/anger issues.
So, in on one hand, the issues are yours-- and it's true that you certainly need to keep your behaviour in check.
On the other hand, however, it sounds as though had your bf not betrayed you, that these issues would probably not exist.

With that in mind, it seems both selfish and irresponsible that he would not be more understanding about how what HE did has impacted you/your relationship. Some people will tell you that the issue is all yours, but it takes two to tango.
Others will blame him entirely, but it's hard sometimes for people outside of a relationship to understand what it's like to be in love with someone despite certain flaws.
Expect some strong contrasts in terms of advice that you'll be given here.

The long and short of it is that this is your life, and you're going to have to try to tune into what is or isn't really going on here.

As for what you know has happened-- thing is, even if really did he only kiss her-- he allowed himself to pursue someone else while he was involved with you.
And not just that-- that other someone was YOUR good friend. To me, this shows (from him) a lack of respect for you.
Even if she had pursued him, it takes two to tango.

Now, this was a long time ago, and he may have made good (not cheated) since then, but there are a few other areas of concern...

Originally Posted by george262

I did speak to my boyfriend about this last night actually. He said it is a complete fabrication and that was probably bitter when she wrote it. And that the friend who showed it to me has behaved shockingly. I dont know what to think

(One question-- when was this Leeds trip, and was the contact/ email old news, or more recent?)

We don't know whether the girl exaggerated at all, but...
Look, you knew the girl and were close for over 5 years, and you'll know her character best.
Perhaps she did not tell you about the kiss before he did, but aside from that, is she generally speaking an honest person? Or is she typically someone who fabricates things?
Also, what (if any) motivation could she possibly have to lie about what happened?

He may be feeling defensive, and is obviously trying to down-play his involvement; either out of guilt, OR maybe because he is the deceiving kind. He could be fed up with the fact that years later, this transgression is still an issue, but really, why is it still such an issue?

Here's some of what is really disconcerting:
Your bf did not give any credit to what was saidat all-- he denied all of it as "a complete fabrication".
Do you really think that she lied about all of it???

The fact that he is trying to completely discredit to other people... i dunno, it just makes me give pause.

If this stuff is such ancient and irrelevant history, why would your friend show you that email?
She may not like the guy, but why?
And do you really think that she is so spiteful that she would try to cause friction in your relationship with your bf just because she doesn't really like him? Despite what your boyfriend is trying to imply, it seems to me that your friend had your best interest in mind.

Your other friend (the one who he was involved with) quite clearly made a big mistake, but your boyfriend was not
without blame.-- it takes two to tango.

It's interesting that you cut her (your friend of 5+ years) out, rather than this guy who you'd (at that time) only known 6 months...

I'm not sure what anyone else will think of this suggestion, but... would you consider ever talking to her again (your ex-friend, I mean)? If you think she may be willing to talk with you about it, then perhaps it would make sense to get the full story from her.

If there are problems in what is supposed to be a serious relationship, it does seem discouraging that he is unwilling to put in real effort to try to help you resolve them.
As far as counseling is concerned, forcing someone to go to counseling generally doesn't work; a person has to both acknowledge and want to resolve the problems if much good can come of counseling.
Further, couples counselling is not counseling for two individual people-- it's counseling for a relationship.

Seeing a counselor may be worth your while--- but on your own, so that you can make the decision that's best for YOU, and to help you find the strength to break any negative patterns in your behavior, whatever they may be.
Try this before deciding whether or not couples counseling is worth looking into.

In my experience, if there's something nagging at your gut, it makes sense to listen to those feelings.
Rather than be swallowed by the negative feelings, try to see them as your intuition telling you that there's something that needs to be examined (whether it be the relationship, or the way you are dealing with the relationship, or anything, really).

Give yourself (and the people who care about you) a bit of credit, even if it means looking your fears in the face.
It may be a difficult thing to do, but looking at your fears honestly is the only way that you'll be able to move on from them.

[george262]

Not sure I explained the situation around the email very well. The email was sent to a mutual friend at the time of me discovering the infidelity. So it has been kept all this time. When my boyfriend said it was fabrication he was refering to the parts of the email that said he would have left me for her and that he was 'in love' with her. I know I just sound like I am blindly defending him here but he has never denied wrongdoing on his part. Whereas my friend has and I have evidence to the contrary. When I found out I asked a lot of questions and he showed me emails sent between them which indicated that she pursued him a lot. I didn't immediately forgive my boyfriend I didn't speak to either of them for a long time.
The Leeds trip was four years ago, I had just left university and was between jobs so I went up and stayed with him. Although I had been slightly suspicious that something had happened for a couple of weeks I had it almost confirmed when I saw a missed call off this girl on his phone when I questioned him about it I knew he was lying to me.
Although I would never have fely that my old friend would completely fabricate things like this she was the type of person who was a little self-obssessed. For example she fell out with her housemate while we were at university because her housemate felt she was being 'over friendly' with her other half. My friend had to move out over this as it got very bitter and at one point became very venemous towards her old housemate claiming that she was just jealous of her. This was just one of a couple of 'slip-ups' in the time I knew her in what was usually a very fun-loving, laid back character.
With regards to talking to her again, I probably couldn't. I have seen her a few times at mutual friends weddings and have been polite but kept my distance. I probably wouldn't see her again as not all of our mutual friends are still friends with her. I think getting in touch and hearing all the details again would just depress me when this is something that I want to move on from. She lied to begin with to try and salvage other friendships and I don't know if she would be honest with me now in case it jepordised these friendships again.

The friend who showed me the email, I consider a good friend, she is one of my few friends who remained friends with this girl and I know she believes her side of the story because although she would never say anything directly to me mutual friends have told me. I don't know what prompted her to show this to me after all this time but she is emmigrating to Australia soon with her new husband and perhaps this was the catalyst as she thought she wouldn't be around any longer to support me if anything would happen. I don't know if she is privy to any extra information that I do not know, to be honest I dont really want to ask.