I've stopped loving my wife and feel somewhat indifferent - can counseling bring it back?

[jonathanb222]

I've posted here before and went through some of the details of my relationship - and the advice a lot of you have given has definitely helped sort some things out.

Now, I am looking into marriage counseling. We've both agreed - but haven't talked about it much beyond that. I was the one that prompted it, and though she agreed, she said she "wanted to do that a long time ago and is happy I finally agree" which - honestly - is not the case. I looked into it on many occassions in the past, and never pursued it because of finances - but she just wanted to ignore the problems and keep "being happy" and not share our problems outside of us. So this leads into my next issue:

Alot of the people on these boards and some of my friends, including my own parents, feel I'm being emotionally abused. And I don't think it's something that will just disappear from my wife as her parents and family are INCREDIBLY emotinally abusive toward her. And I overlooked it for so long, and told people that it wasn't the case and that was how all relationships are supposed to be - but now I feel like an idiot for not seeing the patterns sooner. And I sincerely feel that it's something she may never be able to overcome, as she's consciously tried in the past but always reverted without even realizing it (and without me realizing it until I fall back into depression). But, there was a time I was happy with her, so I've decided to give it a shot before moving towards a seperation.

Here's where my problems lie: I'm just not sure if we're right for each other anymore. Our career goals (and the way we want to approach them) are splintering in different directions. We rarely see each other, and that's just the nature of our chosen professions - and we entered the relationship knowing this, and she minds a LOT more than I do. I honestly am viewing her more like a friend or roommate. I'm not excited by kissing her any more, even when I try to force myself to feel excited. I'm flat out not interested in sex with her. I really hope counseling the relationship might help resolve that - but I'm not sure if the seeds of love are even there anymore. I don't hate her, I just - feel like I do about any of my other friends. She's wonderful to hang out with, I admire her talents, I totally support her, and can talk to her about anything - but...

Well, I guess my question is if the things we have are actually what a married couple needs to stay together. I mean, right now, it feels more like an obligation - we're there for each other because we hooked up when we needed someone else there the most. We were both afraid to be alone. And then we got entangled financially, and now we're sort of stuck with each other.

But now - well...I'm not afraid to be alone anymore. I feel like I'm grown away from her on those levels. I can't tell if I want to really be alone or just be away from her. But there is a level of indifference inside of me. The only thing holding me on right now is that she would totally turn her back on me as a friend if we decided to break up. And I don't want to lose her friendship. She is terrified of being alone. And it sort of keeps me with her - I don't want to feel like I'm just tossing her onto the side of the street. She's at least an important person in my life.

I'm in my late twenties, and we've been together for nearly ten years now - so I'm really starting to feel that we committed to each other and married before we knew who we were. The more I find out about myself, the more I hate who I am around her. And the more i want to discover about myself - which has been actively "stomped on" by her attitudes of "why are you acting this way - that's not you" and "why are your tastes changing" and so on. But the problem is - I'm happier in this new shift of direction. I'm coming out of my depression when I'm not around her - and falling back into bad habits when I am. And I need to break the cycle.

And it makes me incredibly sad that I don't feel deep love for her anymore. I've tried finding that feeling, but it only feels forced and awkward. When I try to love her, I'm unhappy - when I let things just be what they are, I'm happy and full of life. My parents notice how different of a person I am around her - they tried to warn me when we first started going out about these changes in me, but I didn't listen because I was smitten - now I'm regretting my past decisions. I was depressed, alone, and codependant - and she saved me from that - but now I feel like I've fallen even deeper into depression. I even notice a severe tonal shift in my personality when I am around her. And the strange thing is, the more she tried to love me and the harder she pushes me to love her back - the less connected I feel to her.

She's totally enamoured with me, and it kills me to think of breaking apart someone's heart. I'm a sensitive soul and don't want to hurt anyone - but I'm hurting. All the time. I can fake it, but...I want to feel the real thing. And I just can't seem to find it with her any more. And it feels that I might be trying to save this relationship so she doesn't fall apart (which she claims all the time would happen if we divorced) and not for me.

So - after that long winded rant - is that what marriage counseling canreally help with? Can we find lost love if it seems to have disappeared within me? Or is there really not much hope? I would guess that love needs to come from me and counseling won't magically place a little flower that blossoms into full blown love again into my heart - so I wonder if the seed is even there.

And I know that people say because I'm doing counseling must be a sign I care about the relationship or the fact that I don't just leave - but the kind of person I am is one who tried every possible path before deciding on anything. And it's almost like I feel I need therapy to figure out why I don't love my wife anymore. My parents think it's because we were better meant to be best friends than lovers - and the way I describe her makes many people I know think of our relationship as "friends with benefits." But then others who don't knwo the details look at us like we're the perfect young couple. And that makes me double guess that our relationship is falling apart. And I'm not sure if it's just an illusion we created. Can love sometimes just "not be right" anymore? Are people sometimes just "not right" for each other even though they thought they were?


I almost wish we were at least constantly screaming at each other so I at least understood WHY I stopped loving her. I mean, maybe it all comes from the subtle non-malicious abuse I have perceived - and it's just built up over time. I don't understand. I just want obe at peace with myself.

[COtuner]

I have no advice.... my BF left his marriage for very very similar reasons at heart. Took him over 30 years to get up the nerve to leave, although he started feeling this about the same time you did. It financially crippled him, and screwed him up so bad that he was a wreck by the time he started a relationship with me. He'd forgotten how a healthy relationship was supposed to be, and wound up being emotionally abusive with me, because he could not separate me from his memories of his wife. Once he actually slipped up and yelled, "You are NOT my WIFE" at me. It was horrid.

All I can say, is you need to do something fast, whatever it is, and don't waffle and waver. Use the counseling, ask the hard and brutally honest questions of yourself. Don't sugarcoat anything.

If the marriage is meant to be and it's just stale, that can be worked on . Fundamental disconnects as people, however don't work.

My BF and I are on the verge of splitting up. Most of it is traceable to his previous marriage (although I take some blame for my own insecurities, my younger age, and my ambitions and desires).

[Sweet Venus]

Hi Jonathan. First I want to commend you on wanting to work on your marriage.That is a huge sign of the type of guy you are. I can see how you feel this way. I have a friend who was married for 15 years to someone he KNEW wasn't right for him, but he stayed anyway (for the kids)..ultimately they divorced. It was like you..they married because
they thought they "SHOULD" when they probably would have been better off as friends only. Now they have a great relationship and are much happier.

Back to you..counseling MAY help, but only if you're doing it to save your marriage.
I would suggest indiviual counseling if your heart is not set on saving your marriage.
A marriage counselor is going to try to salvage your marriage, they cannot help your wife with her issues or change her and if that is an issue with you, ultimately
it will always come back.

It sounds to me like you want to go to counseling as a way to say "well, I tried, so
I can't feel too bad". That can't be your mind set. You HAVE to truly want to save your marriage, otherwise you're spinning your wheels. And it sounds like your heart is simply not in it. People change ..this does nto make YOU the bad guy, this means this relationship has maybe run it's course. You need to do what you feel is right...

[jonathanb222]

Wow. I didn't expect to see people responding so quickly. I appreciate the understanding of my issues and both of your advice.

COtuner, I know you said you didn't have any advice, but that puts a lot of things in perspective. The biggest problem is I've/we've put things off for so long - and there's always some reason: we've had a good day don't want to ruin it, we've had a bad and don't want to make it worse - I just need to buckle down and do SOMETHING.

And Venus, thank you for your understanding. I think there is a part of me that feels that marriage counseling is what I SUPPOSED to do (much like how your friend - as well as myself - felt they SHOULD get married). But I'm a little confused on that point as well, so maybe individual therapy is the way to go first so I can sort myself out a bit. And then if it looks hopefuly, go to counseling with my wife.

If I were to start individual counseling to sort this out, what type should I seek? Do I go to someone who is also a marriage counselor? Should I look for a standard nondescript therapist? A psychiatrist?

[theshoefairy]

It doesn't sound to me like you have anything left to give to this relationship. I'm not sure if there is anything left for you from what you have written.

Why is it that you start to feel depressed? Is it because of what she does or simply the fact that you are with her?

I believe that if you can love someone once then you can love them again. Funnily enough I have been thinking about this today actually. I have been wondering why people fall out of love or even how they can, and if/when they do does that mean that it wasn't love in the first place? I really don't know.

Can you pinpoint anything in particular that is making you feel this way?

[COtuner]

Hmmm.... I don't think I would go to a psychiatrist. I think a marriage counselor is still good, but look for one that isn't simply going to talk about saving the marriage. You need someone with experience in relationship dynamics but not underlying agendas. The point is to help you figure out what is going on with your dynamic so that you can make decisions.

Sounds dumb, but someone I know tried John Gray's phone counseling stuff and did well. I would have thought that was kind of quack-ish, but he liked it. I'll pass it on for whatever it might be worth.

[Vanishing Girl]

I have no actual advice for your situation, as I believe there are minor and major differences between our situations, but I feel compelled to tell you this since you are questioning your love for your wife....

When my marriage began to unravel, I too thought I had lost the love for my husband. I felt as though we were better off as friends and that we were two totally different people and that the love i wanted would never be found again with him. I felt friendly love towards him, but not passionate love.

We've been in marriage counseling for over a year, and I have to say the love i thought i didn't have for him in reality was the love i didn't have for myself. Because of the counseling we both learned how to meet in the middle and because of that my hubby gave me the room i needed to grow (after i cheated on him) and meanwhile I was working on letting him know i was a trustworthy person again. I have grown into a person who loves myself now and because of that I find it easy to love him. It is not a sexually passionate love yet (i still have troubles with sex, which i think we're starting to finally touch on now), but it is definitely a passionate- i want you and only you-kind of love that i feel for him.

I guess i felt the urge to post this to you, so that you know that with work love can shine through again. Love is not always easy.

I wish you all the best now and in the future!

[Vanishing Girl]

Here's the link to our counselor...i know he does over the phone- he's been fantastic!


[Only registered and activated users can see links. ]

[chigal28]

It sounds like you feel very confused and lost right now. On the one hand, you've made a commitment to this person, whom you care about very much and don't want to hurt. On the other hand, you're realizing how important it is that you feel free to learn, change and grow, and when you're around her, you don't feel like you can do that.

It's great that you're in marriage counseling, but I agree with the poster who said you might want to consider individual therapy, as well. There are a LOT of issues at play here, it seems. You were lonely and lost when you met, and now you feel stronger and more able to "venture out and find yourself" (not out of the relationship, just your pre-conceived notions of yourself), and this scares her, so she tries to stifle it, or at least question it enough that you feel trapped and stuck.

You say that she comes from an emotionally abusive family, and as someone who has been with her for 10 years, you are basically right there with her. You've grown into some unhealthy patterns, and neither of you are sure how to express what you want and need from the other--or let the other grow and change--without feeling threatened or trapped.

I truly feel that one of the greatest gifts my husband and I give each other in our marriage is the freedom and trust in the core of each others' selves to pursue our interests, grow and change. Marriage isn't meant to be a way to maintain the status quo...when you get married, you're not preserving someone in amber at that moment in time, and then expecting them to remain the same throughout life (or at least that's not how I see a healthy marriage working). I see us as boats, venturing out into the world, always figuring out more about who we are, and our marriage as the harbor that we come back to at the end of the day. We're on the same lake, and sometimes we're sailing together, sometimes we head off in our own directions to check things out, but we always end up back at the same harbor, and that harbor is always there.

It's possible you two have grown apart, but after 10 years, it's also possible that you're just itching to change and grow and aren't sure how to manage this within the space of your relationship. It's possible that individually and together, you can find ways to grow and change, while still remaining and growing in the relationship. It's possible that you might not be able to work that out, but it's something to consider.

It's also possible that you want to start over for yourself...you feel that now you're in a place where you want to learn to love yourself (as VG very insightfully pointed out), and when you're around her, you fall into the old patterns of feeling and being. But the change has to come from within you, and with work, can be accomplished in or out of your current relationship.

Sorry if I rambled.

[jonathanb222]

SurfThyme - The more I think about it, I do worry I'm just going to be "going through the motions." It's like my head tells me that this is what I need to do to fix this relationship because I am in a commitment - but at the same time, I can't tell where my heart is in it or not. It's almost more intellectual than emotional in that respect. And I guess that's what is upsetting me about it - I can't seem to connect to that emotional point anymore.

theshoefairy, the reason I was originally fell into a depression was because I had recently been dumped in a very cruel way. And then I met my wife, and sprung back - but I guess I've felt different ever since. As for why I'm depressed now? I know I feel bad when I'm with her, and a sense of relief when I'm around other people. And I feel more encouraged to grow and change. And I have more ambitions when I'm alone. I feel more confident. I'm friendlier and filled with more cheer - I become a person I like to be when I'm alone. My parents and friends said I used to be this way before I met her - so there's some definite impact form the relationship.


COtuner, I'll have to shop around a bit. My general perspective on the issue agrees with yours - I need someone who will look at the situation subjectively and help me determine if this is even a healthy enough of a relationship to try to salvage. There are times I look back and feel it was doomed form the start - it was a bit of a whirlwind romance that got carried by a definite need to have some stability. And we had each other through a LOT of down times. So we needed each other then. But now - it feels like it's grown stagnate and stale and...well..possibly that my feelings never changed from the post-"i'm so in love" stage, just became more clear as I grew older. That I never felt any different than I do right now.

Vanishing Girl, I'm glad to hear that counseling helped. We will probably end up pursuing it. I guess my biggest problem is that I just don't know if what I "want" is what is best for me or not - hence why I might do some single therapy with a marriage counselor/therapist first. I appreciate the encouragement that counseling can work, though.

chigal28, thank you for expressing the status quo comment. That's how it often feels. And my wife has almost outright stated that she doesn't want things to change. And I want to stand by her, but I want to grow beyond where I am - so that's one of the big reasons we're drifting apart. I would like to be able to feel that sort of freedom to grow and change. We have talked about it, and she says I'm free to change - but I just don't feel it. Some of it is holding myself back, some of it is probably the words and lack of encouragement that she uses - but I don't want to just feel "safe" anymore. She's sometimes expressed disdain at new and different choices or my change of taste in movies or TV - and someitmes I feel that's all we really have together. We like the same shows, agree on many key ethical and political issues - but I also feel like my opinions on family, lifestyle, and religion are drifting. I wanted kids when we first got married, but now - I want to wait longer because of our careers, but she wants them very soon. I tried being more religious for her, but it's just not who I am - and it causes some problems. And then I don't mind living a traditional artists lifestyle, but she always needs to go out and get new things. And there's a whole issue about how I often feel more like a parent to her than a husband - but I guess that stuff can be dealt with in therapy. And don't worry - I appreciate the honest detailed response you gave.

I guess what's scary to me is that we've talked about it. We realize the issues. We've both very smart. We've both students of psychology. We both can see the problems exist. But I see those problems at detrimental to a relationship, and she sees them as thigns that i can "just fix about myself." She doesn't think she needs to change. And when she tries to change - I can see the reluctance in her eyes and actions. In a weird way - and i hate bringing up movie references, but it the best example I can think of - it's a lot like in The Break-Up where Jennifer says she wants him to WANT to do the dishes. I think we both WANT something from the other one that neither one of us is willing (or possibly not even able) to give.

Thank you for all the help so far. You've all been really wonderful and supportive!