Stop the screaming!

**caro33** · 02-19-2009, 05:58 PM

My boy is 16 months old, and he's lovely most of the time, albeit a usual demanding toddler. But he's developed a super powered scream that literally gives me a headache and has me crumpled on the floor crying within ten minutes. The scream has built up from only being used at naptime (he will not sleep during the day but sleeps all night with no problems) to being used when he's just feeling a bit ordinary, or he's having a power tantrum. Maybe once or twice a day, but the effects are so shattering that I feel shaky and broken for hours later. This is even when I start off calm and rested and postive all will be right.

I can't describe it, it's horrible. It's like he's being murdered. The light fixtures actually vibrate, the scream echoes in the house, and I can feel my ears shutting down when I am within a few feet of him. The headache kicks in pretty quickly and lasts for ages.

If I had heard someone saying this prior to experiencing it, I would probably think they just needed to buck up a bit. But my god, this is a horrible thing. I just had three days alone with him and I feel drained and sad.

So those of you who have experienced something like this, what happened with you? What did you do, and when did they grow out of it?

By the way, leaving him makes it worse, and he can go for a very long time. I think my only option is to leave him though. This is definitely a try-on too - when he does it at day sleep time he'll stop only (and immediately) when I pick him up (which I avoid unless he's been going for a very long time) when I sit next to him and look at him. Note he'll scream the second I avert my eyes and stop looking at him, even though I am sitting within a foot of him. This is new behaviour, I had gotten him better at sleeping until the past month or so.

sidehop · 02-19-2009, 06:24 PM

How long does he nap for? What happens if he doesn't nap? He's not teething is he? With our daughter she used to scream at night...and cry for good hour and she will be two years old next month! We did find that if we put her to bed after 9:30pm she can sleep through the night. Ugh but we're so exhausted by then...

I'm no sleep expert but I wouldn't pick him up personally if everything is fine and he's supposed to be napping. He's just fighting the nap time and getting his way. Just like with our daughter at night, we finally made a schedule so she cries maybe for few minutes and if it persists, my g/f or I will go in, give her a hug to calm her down and she usually lays back down...this took a long time. Picking her up made things worst as she thought she could sleep in our bed (which daddy is forced to sleep on the couch!) Sometimes we let her when she's sick...and the only time.

**caro33** · 02-19-2009, 06:44 PM

He gets up around 7am, and doesn't show tired signs until at least 11am to midday. If I put him in bed before 1.30pm or so he just screams at the top of his lungs, and can do this for over an hour.

He's never liked day naps as as he's gone through various phases we've adjusted in different ways. I used to pick him up, then I stopped because it was too much. I could not sit there for hours a day with the baby sleeping on me. We got into a routine until a little while ago where I'd pop him in bed after 3 hours up, and sit with him reading (no eye contact) for 10-15 mins until he slept. This worked better than leaving him entirely (yelled for longer) and going in periodically (he became enraged). When I sat with him he'd wail a while, but it was not the screaming horrors. He'd then sleep again in the afternoon, generally for an hour or so.

These days he seems to be moving to the one sleep in the middle of the day, from an hour and a half to three hours, it varies. But he's decided he doesn't need to sleep. He'll crash in the car or in the pram (but this is also increasingly hard) but not his cot. He'll also not sleep in my arms unless he's knackered and he's had a bottle. Even that doesn't work.

He's probably teething, but he's always teething. It doesn't seem to affect him the rest of the time.

Now the screaming has expanded to non-nap times it's unbearable. I think my only option is to fix whatever's wrong if there's something to be fixed, and if he's just tantruming, to gently explain he is going to sit a while in his cot and then leave him there. Everything I have read has said to not give them attention as this is what feeds the bad behaviour.

Isha · 02-19-2009, 06:54 PM

I feel for you! I remember my son going through this stage and it's totally normal for that age bracket. Doesn't make it any easier though, hey?

My son lashed out when he was tired/hungry/over-stimulated/teething or just plain having a bad day, and he only did it around me. This drove me nuts, it's so intense and I copped the brunt of it every time. He was fine around others! But I've discovered he did this because he felt completely safe around me to express his emotions. Children need to feel loved and supported at all times, this is why leaving them alone when they have a tantrum doesn't work. When you leave, they can't grasp the concept at that age that you will return. It makes the screaming louder, and the tantrum turns into a total breakdown because they think that you've left them and you're not coming back.

There's nothing wrong with picking up your son when he is having a tantrum. Seriously =). I do it. It's not reinforcing bad behaviour, it's actually showing him that you're there for him, that you support and love him. Sometimes they don't want to be picked up- that's fine too. At that age, I just removed any objects around him that he could accidently hurt himself on, and sat by him. I spoke to him in a calm, low voice and said something like 'I can see that you're very frustrated right now because you don't want to go to sleep. That's okay, would you like a cuddle?' He might have screamed through that, but he would hear me, and would often launch into my arms for a hug. If he didn't, I would just sit by him, and let him get out all this big life-shattering emotion safely. No, he wouldn't have grasped all of the words I had used but it was the beginning of giving him tools (words) to use that he could link with his emotions. Once I started implementing these things, the tantrums didn't stop, but they became much shorter and much easier to deal with.

My son dropped day sleeps at 1 year old. It's exhausting. I found that it was okay that he didn't actually sleep during the day if we had a regular down time. I would darken his playroom, give him books and a bowl of fruit or vegies and dip and let him hang out quietly. Sometimes it only lasted 10 minutes, other times he would be in there for an hour. We still do this and he's 3.

How is his diet? Are there any allergies or food intolerances in your family? These can cause really huge behavioural problems in children if they consume a trigger food.

It's hard, but this stage does pass! It takes a lot of patience, a good support network, and alone time for you when he's asleep. It's hard not to take it personally- you give them everything and they still aren't happy! The best thing you can give him is tools to cope with his feelings, and this starts with repeating words for him. At age 3, my son is very capable of telling me what he's feeling. We can then work out the problem and come to an appropriate solution together. This cuts out I would say 80% of potential tantrums, as mostly they occur because the child can't make you understand what the problem is.

I hope that helps, sorry for the long post! All the best with it =)

**caro33** · 02-19-2009, 07:13 PM

Thanks Isha, I appreciate it. I have tried picking him up when he's been tantruming on the floor (not at nap-time) but he has not been interested so far. He's just doing his screamy thing and he seems so upset and angry, I have no idea. I start off all calm but feel myself disintegrating. It's probably more for the sake of my own mental health that I might start putting him away. Sitting there with him has me feeling either hopeless or violent, and as it escalates neither are good things to be feeling around a baby.

I was recommended a book called 'Buddhism for Mothers' that I have found pretty good so far. I was a tad scornful to start with but found it really tapped in to how I have been feeling for the past few months. I was feeling all empowered and calm and ready to 'be in the moment' and not take things personally etc etc, but the screaming seems to touch some primal part of my brain...

I think the diet is probably not an issue, but who knows for sure? I think the tantrums probably have a far more immediate cause to be honest, like me taking something away from him that he wanted, or trying to give him lunch when he doesn't want it, or putting him to bed when he doesn't want to. When I am doing his bidding (and on his timeframe) he's quite a pleasant little dictator.

He's not speaking yet, at least not recognisable words. I hope that when he starts being able to talk he'll be less frustrated. I might try your dark room thing - although I think I have to some degree, I make things quiet and just lie down on the floor and hope he copies me. He's like a little manic robot though and he just burns around demanding I read him the same nursery rhyme books for hours on end. I am not sure I could cope with an entire day of that and no sleep break for him!

ErikT · 02-19-2009, 07:30 PM

My 12 month old also has "that scream!" What we usually do when he starts it is to try and distract him. "Oh, look at this toy," and he has gotten to the point where he becomes engaged with "the distraction" and stops the creaming or whining for at least a few minutes. He has his older sister (2 years old) to play with, so she is able to keep him entertained.

Getting to sleep was also an issue for us. He would cry for hours and it ended up working itself out. Now, if we lay him down and he is the least bit tired, he will cry/scream for 5 minutes and then pass out. However, if we put him in his crib BEFORE he is tired he lets us know!

Also, while it might not be diet, is he eating enough? We went through a short stage where he just wasn't eating enough and was throwing a fit all day long! We feed him until he starts throwing his food (and says "done" as best as a 12 month old can say it!) and then we give him a banana which no matter how much he eats before hand, he will always finish at least 3/4 of it.

He still carries on occasion, but not nearly as much as he use to.

Fortunately, our 2 year old has always been easy to get to sleep and we are just now starting with her tantrums and her "no-itist": Everything asked of her is "no"!

Isha - No disrespect intended, but I do disagree with a few things you said. First, a 16 month old does understand the concept of the parent being in the other room. A child needs to learn to self entertain and accept that a parent is not going to hold them at the drop of a hat. Also, unless I misunderstood, you give him fruit and dip in his crib? I would never think of letting my kids eat or drink anything in their bedroom. I do like the idea of "quiet time" even if they do not actually nap, and we have done that with our daughter since she gave up one of her naptimes. Anyway, please don't take this as me criticizing you, I'm not. We just have different styles of parenting.

Isha · 02-19-2009, 07:41 PM

Buddhism for Mothers is a really great resource! There is also a great article by Pinky McKay who is an Australian mother and parenting 'helper' lol.

[Only registered and activated users can see links. ]

I totally understand the saving your mental health thing. If you feel you need to there's nothing wrong with getting up and getting a drink and having a breather. How do you feel when he's screaming but away from you? I tried this at my utter wits-end and to be honest I found it equally as horrible because I guess the mother-instinct is to go to your child when they're distressed.

Can he be redirected? Painting, drawing, playdough, books, anything that can capture his interest and settle him down is okay to use when you need to.

Quote:

When I am doing his bidding (and on his timeframe) he's quite a pleasant little dictator.

You don't have to be child-centred to keep him happy. Childen do need to learn that the family operates best when everyone works together. I'd go crazy if I spent every moment of my time focussed on my son and directing his play or giving into his every whim. Your boy is still at the age when he needs to be around you, but he can 'help' with running the house. Giving him a plastic tub outside with a bit of soapy water and some safe dishes etc for him to 'wash' is a great way of introducing him to family activities. Same goes with hanging up small items of washing with wooden pegs, washing vegetables for dinner, sweeping the floor with a little brush and putting away toys in baskets etc. It helps them explore, experiment, and feel included and you can get on with whatever it is you want to do. Sure you have to do this stuff over again because they always make a mess, but making things like that a regular part of their day teaches that you do not revolve around them, and that certain things need to be done to make sure the house runs smoothly. It can fill hours of time, and these activities don't really require (besides the water) constant supervision and assistance.

If you're interested I have more resources that I could post, but I've rambled on long enough, lol.

**caro33** · 02-19-2009, 07:43 PM

Thanks Erik,

Yes, the food is a bit of an issue. I never know how much he should be having. He's always been a good eater, but a little on the slim side, so I've always tried to feed him as much as he'll willingly take at any time.

This is what he used to eat in one day -
- two weet-bix with milk
- 2X200ml formula
- rice crackers, sultanas as snacks around the same time as the formula
- cheese fingers and vegemite sandwich, as a starter to meals or a snack
- around 8 large ice cubes of spag bol mix or other meat/veg/carb (over two meals)
- 1 - 2 small yogurts or custards

The amount has recently dropped to half this, or less; since he's had a couple of illnesses (including a gastro a month ago) he's off all dairy and he spurns a lot of the food he used to enjoy.

That's why we fought yesterday - I was trying to get lunch into him and he wouldn't have a bar of it. I try to offer him something every couple of hours, but he wouldn't eat much at all yesterday.

**caro33** · 02-19-2009, 07:45 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Isha

Buddhism for Mothers is a really great resource! There is also a great article by Pinky McKay who is an Australian mother and parenting 'helper' lol.

[Only registered and activated users can see links. ]

I totally understand the saving your mental health thing. If you feel you need to there's nothing wrong with getting up and getting a drink and having a breather. How do you feel when he's screaming but away from you? I tried this at my utter wits-end and to be honest I found it equally as horrible because I guess the mother-instinct is to go to your child when they're distressed.

Can he be redirected? Painting, drawing, playdough, books, anything that can capture his interest and settle him down is okay to use when you need to.

You don't have to be child-centred to keep him happy. Childen do need to learn that the family operates best when everyone works together. I'd go crazy if I spent every moment of my time focussed on my son and directing his play or giving into his every whim. Your boy is still at the age when he needs to be around you, but he can 'help' with running the house. Giving him a plastic tub outside with a bit of soapy water and some safe dishes etc for him to 'wash' is a great way of introducing him to family activities. Same goes with hanging up small items of washing with wooden pegs, washing vegetables for dinner, sweeping the floor with a little brush and putting away toys in baskets etc. It helps them explore, experiment, and feel included and you can get on with whatever it is you want to do. Sure you have to do this stuff over again because they always make a mess, but making things like that a regular part of their day teaches that you do not revolve around them, and that certain things need to be done to make sure the house runs smoothly. It can fill hours of time, and these activities don't really require (besides the water) constant supervision and assistance.

If you're interested I have more resources that I could post, but I've rambled on long enough, lol.

I have to head off now for an appointment but will be back. Yes, if you have the time, please let me know other resources. I have the Pinky McKay stuff I think (I also bought every sleep book on the market a while ago!).

Thanks again.

ghostgirl116 · 02-19-2009, 07:46 PM

is his room safe enough that you can put him in there, tell him you love him, and that when he's all done, you will then allow him to come out of the room? it may take a bit of time, it seems he's used to having you there when he throws these fits. my daughter did the same thing when she was around two. you would have thought i was killing her. i was at a point where i myself would just cry with frustration. someone suggested that i just say "ok, you can scream, but you're doing it in your room" and leave it at that. well, at first a time or two, i was the worst person on the planet!! atleast i felt that way, but she soon enough got the point.

02-19-2009, 05:58 PM	#1
caro33 Offline Super Moderator Join Date: Jun 2006 Posts: 2,569	Stop the screaming! My boy is 16 months old, and he's lovely most of the time, albeit a usual demanding toddler. But he's developed a super powered scream that literally gives me a headache and has me crumpled on the floor crying within ten minutes. The scream has built up from only being used at naptime (he will not sleep during the day but sleeps all night with no problems) to being used when he's just feeling a bit ordinary, or he's having a power tantrum. Maybe once or twice a day, but the effects are so shattering that I feel shaky and broken for hours later. This is even when I start off calm and rested and postive all will be right. I can't describe it, it's horrible. It's like he's being murdered. The light fixtures actually vibrate, the scream echoes in the house, and I can feel my ears shutting down when I am within a few feet of him. The headache kicks in pretty quickly and lasts for ages. If I had heard someone saying this prior to experiencing it, I would probably think they just needed to buck up a bit. But my god, this is a horrible thing. I just had three days alone with him and I feel drained and sad. So those of you who have experienced something like this, what happened with you? What did you do, and when did they grow out of it? By the way, leaving him makes it worse, and he can go for a very long time. I think my only option is to leave him though. This is definitely a try-on too - when he does it at day sleep time he'll stop only (and immediately) when I pick him up (which I avoid unless he's been going for a very long time) when I sit next to him and look at him. Note he'll scream the second I avert my eyes and stop looking at him, even though I am sitting within a foot of him. This is new behaviour, I had gotten him better at sleeping until the past month or so.

02-19-2009, 06:54 PM	#4
Isha Offline Bronze Member Join Date: Dec 2008 Gender: Female Posts: 119	I feel for you! I remember my son going through this stage and it's totally normal for that age bracket. Doesn't make it any easier though, hey? My son lashed out when he was tired/hungry/over-stimulated/teething or just plain having a bad day, and he only did it around me. This drove me nuts, it's so intense and I copped the brunt of it every time. He was fine around others! But I've discovered he did this because he felt completely safe around me to express his emotions. Children need to feel loved and supported at all times, this is why leaving them alone when they have a tantrum doesn't work. When you leave, they can't grasp the concept at that age that you will return. It makes the screaming louder, and the tantrum turns into a total breakdown because they think that you've left them and you're not coming back. There's nothing wrong with picking up your son when he is having a tantrum. Seriously =). I do it. It's not reinforcing bad behaviour, it's actually showing him that you're there for him, that you support and love him. Sometimes they don't want to be picked up- that's fine too. At that age, I just removed any objects around him that he could accidently hurt himself on, and sat by him. I spoke to him in a calm, low voice and said something like 'I can see that you're very frustrated right now because you don't want to go to sleep. That's okay, would you like a cuddle?' He might have screamed through that, but he would hear me, and would often launch into my arms for a hug. If he didn't, I would just sit by him, and let him get out all this big life-shattering emotion safely. No, he wouldn't have grasped all of the words I had used but it was the beginning of giving him tools (words) to use that he could link with his emotions. Once I started implementing these things, the tantrums didn't stop, but they became much shorter and much easier to deal with. My son dropped day sleeps at 1 year old. It's exhausting. I found that it was okay that he didn't actually sleep during the day if we had a regular down time. I would darken his playroom, give him books and a bowl of fruit or vegies and dip and let him hang out quietly. Sometimes it only lasted 10 minutes, other times he would be in there for an hour. We still do this and he's 3. How is his diet? Are there any allergies or food intolerances in your family? These can cause really huge behavioural problems in children if they consume a trigger food. It's hard, but this stage does pass! It takes a lot of patience, a good support network, and alone time for you when he's asleep. It's hard not to take it personally- you give them everything and they still aren't happy! The best thing you can give him is tools to cope with his feelings, and this starts with repeating words for him. At age 3, my son is very capable of telling me what he's feeling. We can then work out the problem and come to an appropriate solution together. This cuts out I would say 80% of potential tantrums, as mostly they occur because the child can't make you understand what the problem is. I hope that helps, sorry for the long post! All the best with it =) __________________ tempt my werewolf not to run.

02-19-2009, 07:30 PM	#6
ErikT Offline Silver Member Join Date: Dec 2008 Gender: Male Posts: 347	My 12 month old also has "that scream!" What we usually do when he starts it is to try and distract him. "Oh, look at this toy," and he has gotten to the point where he becomes engaged with "the distraction" and stops the creaming or whining for at least a few minutes. He has his older sister (2 years old) to play with, so she is able to keep him entertained. Getting to sleep was also an issue for us. He would cry for hours and it ended up working itself out. Now, if we lay him down and he is the least bit tired, he will cry/scream for 5 minutes and then pass out. However, if we put him in his crib BEFORE he is tired he lets us know! Also, while it might not be diet, is he eating enough? We went through a short stage where he just wasn't eating enough and was throwing a fit all day long! We feed him until he starts throwing his food (and says "done" as best as a 12 month old can say it!) and then we give him a banana which no matter how much he eats before hand, he will always finish at least 3/4 of it. He still carries on occasion, but not nearly as much as he use to. Fortunately, our 2 year old has always been easy to get to sleep and we are just now starting with her tantrums and her "no-itist": Everything asked of her is "no"! Isha - No disrespect intended, but I do disagree with a few things you said. First, a 16 month old does understand the concept of the parent being in the other room. A child needs to learn to self entertain and accept that a parent is not going to hold them at the drop of a hat. Also, unless I misunderstood, you give him fruit and dip in his crib? I would never think of letting my kids eat or drink anything in their bedroom. I do like the idea of "quiet time" even if they do not actually nap, and we have done that with our daughter since she gave up one of her naptimes. Anyway, please don't take this as me criticizing you, I'm not. We just have different styles of parenting. __________________ Go Gators! Last edited by ErikT; 02-19-2009 at 07:38 PM.

02-19-2009, 06:24 PM	#2
sidehop Offline Platinum Member Join Date: Jan 2004 Location: NH USA Gender: Male Posts: 1,599	How long does he nap for? What happens if he doesn't nap? He's not teething is he? With our daughter she used to scream at night...and cry for good hour and she will be two years old next month! We did find that if we put her to bed after 9:30pm she can sleep through the night. Ugh but we're so exhausted by then... I'm no sleep expert but I wouldn't pick him up personally if everything is fine and he's supposed to be napping. He's just fighting the nap time and getting his way. Just like with our daughter at night, we finally made a schedule so she cries maybe for few minutes and if it persists, my g/f or I will go in, give her a hug to calm her down and she usually lays back down...this took a long time. Picking her up made things worst as she thought she could sleep in our bed (which daddy is forced to sleep on the couch!) Sometimes we let her when she's sick...and the only time.

02-19-2009, 06:44 PM	#3
caro33 Offline Super Moderator Join Date: Jun 2006 Posts: 2,569	He gets up around 7am, and doesn't show tired signs until at least 11am to midday. If I put him in bed before 1.30pm or so he just screams at the top of his lungs, and can do this for over an hour. He's never liked day naps as as he's gone through various phases we've adjusted in different ways. I used to pick him up, then I stopped because it was too much. I could not sit there for hours a day with the baby sleeping on me. We got into a routine until a little while ago where I'd pop him in bed after 3 hours up, and sit with him reading (no eye contact) for 10-15 mins until he slept. This worked better than leaving him entirely (yelled for longer) and going in periodically (he became enraged). When I sat with him he'd wail a while, but it was not the screaming horrors. He'd then sleep again in the afternoon, generally for an hour or so. These days he seems to be moving to the one sleep in the middle of the day, from an hour and a half to three hours, it varies. But he's decided he doesn't need to sleep. He'll crash in the car or in the pram (but this is also increasingly hard) but not his cot. He'll also not sleep in my arms unless he's knackered and he's had a bottle. Even that doesn't work. He's probably teething, but he's always teething. It doesn't seem to affect him the rest of the time. Now the screaming has expanded to non-nap times it's unbearable. I think my only option is to fix whatever's wrong if there's something to be fixed, and if he's just tantruming, to gently explain he is going to sit a while in his cot and then leave him there. Everything I have read has said to not give them attention as this is what feeds the bad behaviour.

02-19-2009, 07:13 PM	#5
caro33 Offline Super Moderator Join Date: Jun 2006 Posts: 2,569	Thanks Isha, I appreciate it. I have tried picking him up when he's been tantruming on the floor (not at nap-time) but he has not been interested so far. He's just doing his screamy thing and he seems so upset and angry, I have no idea. I start off all calm but feel myself disintegrating. It's probably more for the sake of my own mental health that I might start putting him away. Sitting there with him has me feeling either hopeless or violent, and as it escalates neither are good things to be feeling around a baby. I was recommended a book called 'Buddhism for Mothers' that I have found pretty good so far. I was a tad scornful to start with but found it really tapped in to how I have been feeling for the past few months. I was feeling all empowered and calm and ready to 'be in the moment' and not take things personally etc etc, but the screaming seems to touch some primal part of my brain... I think the diet is probably not an issue, but who knows for sure? I think the tantrums probably have a far more immediate cause to be honest, like me taking something away from him that he wanted, or trying to give him lunch when he doesn't want it, or putting him to bed when he doesn't want to. When I am doing his bidding (and on his timeframe) he's quite a pleasant little dictator. He's not speaking yet, at least not recognisable words. I hope that when he starts being able to talk he'll be less frustrated. I might try your dark room thing - although I think I have to some degree, I make things quiet and just lie down on the floor and hope he copies me. He's like a little manic robot though and he just burns around demanding I read him the same nursery rhyme books for hours on end. I am not sure I could cope with an entire day of that and no sleep break for him!

02-19-2009, 07:43 PM	#8
caro33 Offline Super Moderator Join Date: Jun 2006 Posts: 2,569	Thanks Erik, Yes, the food is a bit of an issue. I never know how much he should be having. He's always been a good eater, but a little on the slim side, so I've always tried to feed him as much as he'll willingly take at any time. This is what he used to eat in one day - - two weet-bix with milk - 2X200ml formula - rice crackers, sultanas as snacks around the same time as the formula - cheese fingers and vegemite sandwich, as a starter to meals or a snack - around 8 large ice cubes of spag bol mix or other meat/veg/carb (over two meals) - 1 - 2 small yogurts or custards The amount has recently dropped to half this, or less; since he's had a couple of illnesses (including a gastro a month ago) he's off all dairy and he spurns a lot of the food he used to enjoy. That's why we fought yesterday - I was trying to get lunch into him and he wouldn't have a bar of it. I try to offer him something every couple of hours, but he wouldn't eat much at all yesterday.

02-19-2009, 07:46 PM	#10
ghostgirl116 Offline Member Join Date: Feb 2008 Location: ohio Gender: Female Posts: 174	is his room safe enough that you can put him in there, tell him you love him, and that when he's all done, you will then allow him to come out of the room? it may take a bit of time, it seems he's used to having you there when he throws these fits. my daughter did the same thing when she was around two. you would have thought i was killing her. i was at a point where i myself would just cry with frustration. someone suggested that i just say "ok, you can scream, but you're doing it in your room" and leave it at that. well, at first a time or two, i was the worst person on the planet!! atleast i felt that way, but she soon enough got the point.