Prejudice on Mental Health Issues.

[Dragunov-21]

Easily bored readers please skip to the bold text.

Kay, so I've come across a few threads over the past week that've related to issues in dating people with psychiatric disorders (think I've used the correct term), and there've been quite a number of people who've said "I won't date someone with <insert disorder here>".

Now I would just like to offer a bit of advice to everyone. Mental illnesses can have drastic effects on peoples behaviour, or they can have very little. It's like a sliding scale.

Psychiatry is *NOT* an exact science, and these days there are a metric f-bunch of people walking around misdiagnosed when they have either a different disorder or no disorder at all.

Now often, having a label attached to whatever problems you might be having can be of great help in coping or dealing with said problem. However, I am deeply unsettled by the level of stigma attached to these labels.

For instance:

I am currently in the United States on work, and I believe that there has been a fair bit of publicity relating to "Asperger's Syndrome". AS is a disorder which shares many traits with, and has been described as, a mild form of Autism. Primarily, symptoms include lack of ability to empathise, inability to view comments in anything other than a literal context (ie cannot understand plays on words or sarcasm), lack of ability to recognise nonverbal cues, and as a result, a lack of social skills.

I had some serious social problems in grades 7-9, which I won't go into, and ended up seeing three psychologist over the years, two of which diagnosed me with a mild form of AS, the last one said that my ability to empathise and my grip of nonverbal cues invalidated such diagnoses.

However, the label actually helped me to work on the problems I had, and I'd like to think that on the whole I'm a kind, caring and balanced individual.

Now the reason I mention this is recently I met a girl online, who I'm staying with for 4 days in a couple of weeks (she's just downstate). We really hit it off, and were talking to each other every night over webcam. She seemed really into me, until the subject of school/friend troubles came up, and I mentioned that I had been diagnosed with AS.

She pretty much freaked. By which I mean she went quiet, looked at me like I was frankenstein, and tried to think of a way to convince this nutcase (who now had her address) not to attack her and make a woman suit from her skin.

Now I was a little offended by this, given that I've never been violent, the only symptoms affecting me now being lack of social skills (which I've worked on a lot over the years), awkwardness around people when I don't know them well, shyness and an inability to make smalltalk.

Now over the next hour, I convinced her that I wasn't a nutcase, wasn't hurt (a little bit of a lie, but oh well), and that it didn't count anyway because the latest psych had undiagnosed me.

Now the thing that really gets me is that the only difference between her really digging me, and thinking I was certifiable was a little label.

Now I dunno what sort of publicity mental illness has had over in the US, but I haven't ever had this issue in Oz, and I'm a little worried.

Admittedly some sufferers of mental illnesses can be absolute basket cases, and not someone who the majority of people could/would sustain a relationship with, but for god's sake:

A LABEL DOES NOT EQUAL SYMPTOMS!

REFUSE TO DATE SOMEONE BECAUSE THEY'RE UNSTABLE, OR VIOLENT, OR HAVE BREAKDOWNS THAT CAUSE THEM TO RUN NAKED THROUGH A SCHOOLYARD, BUT DO IT BECAUSE OF THOSE SYMPTOMS THEY'RE EXHIBITTING, NOT BECAUSE OF THE WORST-CASE-SCENARIO OF THE DISORDER THEY'VE BEEN LABELLED WITH!!!

Otherwise, it'll just become a dirty little secret that no-one will ever be told.


Any thoughts? (Apart from what's with the essay?)

[fragmint]

i think most people understand what you've just said already. but a lot of people who say 'i wouldnt date someone with ____' - i dont think they mean that everyone is the worst case scenario. but with so many other options out there, wouldnt it be easier to not risk it and date someone without anything to do with _____ in the first place? thats how i look at it anyways.

also a lot of times people hide behind their 'illness' when things go wrong and expect people to make exceptions for them. something will happen, the other person will get upset or mad and then the first person says 'well i have ____!'. sorry id rather just avoid the possibility of that situation altogether.

[girl friend]

I understand both sides. I think when people have a serious form of a disorder and use it as an excuse for bad behaviour such as cheating in relationships it gives the disorder a bad name..

I had a lover who had bi-polar disorder and that was a nightmare, everything was blamed on the disorder. It was an emotional rollercoaster, with no consideration of my feelings, complete egocentricity, tenuous grip on reality, and bizarre circumstances...
At the same time, i believed most of the behaviour towards me that my ex blamed on the disorder to be personal choice. being bi-polar does not make you more likely to cheat on a lover.., and then blame them!

If you are a strong person, and you will accept your mistakes on yourself, on your own choices and personality, and say sorry and move on, you'll be ok.

Perhaps telling someone you have a diagnosis is a bit strong... why not say you are recovering from AS, or have overcome AS? because thats what it sounds like.

good luck!

[Victoria66]

I take people on their own merit until they exhibit more than a few character traits I find really displeasing. You can find this in the whole of the population not just part of it. Always look at the merit of the individual.

[Dragunov-21]

Originally Posted by fragmint

i think most people understand what you've just said already. but a lot of people who say 'i wouldnt date someone with ____' - i dont think they mean that everyone is the worst case scenario. but with so many other options out there, wouldnt it be easier to not risk it and date someone without anything to do with _____ in the first place? thats how i look at it anyways.

also a lot of times people hide behind their 'illness' when things go wrong and expect people to make exceptions for them. something will happen, the other person will get upset or mad and then the first person says 'well i have ____!'. sorry id rather just avoid the possibility of that situation altogether.

I guess it was just really... Offensive that the leap from "Hey great come stay with me can't wait to see you" to "Oh, I've heard about that and I don't feel safe anymore" was over 3 seconds...

And a relationship wasn't on the cards, we're just meeting up as friends.

As for hiding behind it, having a label is no excuse - if you are flipping out, don't expect people to want to be around you, but if you control the symptoms to the point where you are able to fully function in society (ie where people don't know you have it unless you tell them) I think that you should be treated as such.

I mean, consider a mean guy/girl without a recognised disorder (other than being an arsehole), versus someone with a label (let's say AS or something) who's taught themselves social skills etc and is an intelligent, kind, caring person... Would you really go for the former over the latter?

[Dragunov-21]

Originally Posted by girl friend

Perhaps telling someone you have a diagnosis is a bit strong... why not say you are recovering from AS, or have overcome AS? because thats what it sounds like.

Because that label helped me overcome my social problems, and I've never (in Australia) had any problems with it, never felt ashamed... until now. It just pissed me off that someone who knew me and liked me stopped as soon as they heard the words "Asperger's Syndrome". And a friend of mine is bipolar (not particularly extreme, as far as it goes), but he's on meds and is just a normal guy. Like I said, it depends on the person, you know?

Originally Posted by Victoria66

I take people on their own merit until they exhibit more than a few character traits I find really displeasing. You can find this in the whole of the population not just part of it. Always look at the merit of the individual.

That's exactly my point - it shouldn't be the disorder that makes someone "unfeasible", it should be the negative traits (if any) they exhibit...

I guess it just hurt that I had to fight for the right to be judged on my own merit alone...

[fragmint]

Originally Posted by Dragunov-21

I guess it was just really... Offensive that the leap from "Hey great come stay with me can't wait to see you" to "Oh, I've heard about that and I don't feel safe anymore" was over 3 seconds...

And a relationship wasn't on the cards, we're just meeting up as friends.

As for hiding behind it, having a label is no excuse - if you are flipping out, don't expect people to want to be around you, but if you control the symptoms to the point where you are able to fully function in society (ie where people don't know you have it unless you tell them) I think that you should be treated as such.

I mean, consider a mean guy/girl without a recognised disorder (other than being an arsehole), versus someone with a label (let's say AS or something) who's taught themselves social skills etc and is an intelligent, kind, caring person... Would you really go for the former over the latter?

the trick is that everyone already knows what you just said, but when you go out there, its all about taking that 'risk' factor. like i said, there are so many other options that its easier to just not date someone with a mental issue due to the 'risk' of the worst case scenario.

i know youre hurt that she reacted that way, but like someone else already mentioned - why did you even tell her? especially since you have been undiagnosed already, whats the point of telling her at all then since it doesnt even apply to you anymore? telling someone something like that is like a warning. you say 'oh i have _____'. the other person finishes the sentence with all the stuff theyve heard about ____ including the symptoms and experiences theyve heard of from others.

imagine someone telling you 'oh i cheated on my bf/gf before......' even if they went on and on to explain how they wouldnt again, your mind will still bring up what you've HEARD about cheaters , including the worst one 'once a cheater, always a cheater'.

[Victoria66]

Awww I am sorry about that hun, my son has to fight too. He has some illnesses that impede his social accpetance as well, and it is so hard to watch people ignore him when he tries to be friends with them. It breaks my heart cause he is a GREAT kid.

But like someone said, do not mention it early on in a friendship or realtionship because most people are ignorant and only think the worst of people with developmental or mental issues. It is sad but true.

[Dragunov-21]

*EDIT* Misunderstanding cut out *EDIT*

As for how it came up, we were discussing social problems we had in highschool, and she asked about the specifics of mine. I was bullied terribly, and because I was so shy and introverted, I couldn't make any new friends. At that stage it was better to stay around people who (one day, for instance) alternately shot hoops and chucked the basketball at my head. in grade 9 I went to school on about 30% of days because I couldn't bear going through that stuff anymore. That's why I told her, because she asked.

It's not something that I pull out for everyone I meet, but if someone specifically asks about something, I tend to tell them (yes I warn them that it's prolly something they don't wanna hear).

The fact is, I'm doing damn well to be where I am today - my self esteem's improved, I have a group of 6-7 very close friends (I've always been more a small-close-group sorta person), I've honed my social skills to the point where I'm definitely average, and I can now go up and talk to people I don't know on my own. I'm still shy, but so are a lot of other people...

Originally Posted by Victoria66

Awww I am sorry about that hun, my son has to fight too. He has some illnesses that impede his social accpetance as well, and it is so hard to watch people ignore him when he tries to be friends with them. It breaks my heart cause he is a GREAT kid.

Thanks, I really appreciate that, and I hope he becomes more socially comfortable - having family support is the key, IMO, and I think you've got that covered

And yeah, it's not something I'll be mentioning again... I just never understood the prejudices is all...

[fragmint]

Originally Posted by Dragunov-21

I hardly think that applies, cheating is a lack of self control, or a choice, not just a label, and (for the most part) someone else gets hurt - it's a betrayal of another's trust. Saying that you have been diagnosed with something doesn't necessarily mean that you've ever done anything wrong.

uh i dont think you understood my example at all. i never said that cheating is like having a disorder or mental health issue. my point is that when you tell people things, they finish your sentence in their heads with stuff that theyve heard about the issue, whether it be someone with a disorder, someone whos cheated, or even someone whos had a lot of sex. it could be anything. the point is telling someone certain things about yourself will naturally cause them to recall whatever they know about the subject to their mind and they will react according to what they 'know' and how they feel. thats something you cant change so thats why i suggested not even mentioning it , especially if youre not even diagnosed as it anymore.