Dispute regarding investment - I was against it, he was for it - Now I'm not sure I can marry him...

[notsoanonymous]

This is going to be a long one. Please hang in there and help me out. I'm so frustrated and confused over this.

Background:

My boyfriend and I have been together two years. We bought a house two months ago and made the decision to comingle our finances at that time. We are not engaged right now but have very seriously discussed getting married and having children within the next couple of years. When we purchased the house, I made it clear that I did so with the idea that we would be engaged in short time. He agreed, said it was actuall yin the works but asked me to stop discussing it because he intended to propose within the year but doesn't want to spoil the surprise. I was content with that, no worries. Signed my name on that dotted line and took on the debt of a mortgage, moved in, got a puppy, played housewife without the ring. Sometimes, I really hate the not having a ring part but I try to put that out of my mind, knowing he will marry me eventually. Right.

We did all of this without a cohabitation agreement of any sort. Stupid, stupid. I know. I know. I just kept thinking it was an unnecessary expense since we were going to be getting married. I'd be his wife. I love him. It will be okay.

There are things I might have done differently if I had known this (what I am writing about today) would happen, but this came out of the blue for me and I had no indication he would ever do this or I would ever feel this way. Gotta love that hindsight.

So, I already know the reality of my current situation - I'm here to ask for some advice on something that I still have some control over, which is how to move forward (or not) and whether and for some outside perspective on whether or not I am making a mountain out of a molehill here.

To get a couple things out of the way before I move any further. Please refrain in advance from speculating on things (feel free to ask questions, I will answer them - just PLEASE do not assume). Also, please do not tell me what I shouldn't have done (i.e. buy the house without anything in writing, do it before marriage, etc and so forth.)




So here is what happened.

He works for a company that is employee owned. The rate of return for many years has been very high (think the 50%-85% range - HIGH) and many of his coworkers have become very wealthy as a result. This is a LARGE company, international, not a start up by any means, in a market (commercial construction) that continuously booms even during a downturn in the economy. It's also not based on the US so it's moving very strong.

When we first discussed buying the house, he mentioned that he wanted to buy into this company as an investment. I expressed my concern over this and stated that I thought it was better to pay down our large debts for a year while getting used to the mortgage payment before we did so. I also explained that I wasn't comfortable with the risk - for example, if heaven forbid something were to go wrong, the investment $$ would be gone. I also was concerned that we did not have the right amount of money to be investing at this point and still live comfortably, because there were minimums associated with the buy in amount. End discussion, no resolution was maae, but I was heard. I had confidence in him that he would make an appropriate decision regarding the matter and I let it go knowing he respected my opinion.

Within a few days of buying the house, he admitted to me that he went to a local bank one day while I was in the office and requested a line of credit for $25,000 for the purpose of investing that money in his company. He did so on the advice of his boss (who is a good man and has made an enormous amount of profit from doing the same thing.) I was furious, but since he was completely denied, I also let it go. I simply said that I expected in the future that he would consult me and respect my wishes when it came to any type of major financial issue between us. He said he agreed, he was sorry, it wouldn't happen again.

A few weeks later, without my knowledge he requested his shares at work, for a total amount of $10,000. He did this again on the advice of his boss that "no one gets the full request, so request double what you can afford - and if you do get it, I'll loan you the extra." He doesn't tell me. We have only $4700 in the bank as a cushion in case we need it for an emergency.

Last week, he calls me on the way home from work. He informed me that he would be getting the entire requested shares. He told me it was $10,000. I got quiet, asked if we could speak in person when we both were at home. I went there, proceeded to have an absolute meltdown in the shower and calm myself into rational thoughts before he arrived.

When he got home, we talked. I explaned that I was terrified of him cleaning out our savings (what little we had jointly was about $4700 in reserves) and putting my on the hook (I recently received a settlement for pain/suffering from a car accident which was $5500 in the bank - which ALL was supposed to go to my debt.) I also said that I was never comfortable with this because we are not married, not yet financially stable, etc. I said the typical chick stuff - "What if I get pregnant by accident? What if one of us loses their job" What if we break up?" He asked me to trust him, I explaned that it wasn't about trust for me IN HIM, it was about not being okay with taking such a major risk. He informed me of the loan from his boss which I totally balked at. I don't believe in borrowing money from friends and family - doing business with anyone close to your heart I am against for many obvious reasons. We are close to his boss and his wife and kids on a personal and casual level outside the office.

The kicker is that he then explaned that once he requested the shares, he HAD to buy them. The money had to come from somewhere. And fast. A week and a half from the day.

The result of all this is that I agreed to give him a big amount of money toward the investment to avoid taking the loan from his boss. We agreed, we moved on, I've been dealing on my own with doing something I don't want to do. AT ALL. But I deal. That is what I do, speaking up when necessary and when something can be done about things. But here, nothing could be done.



Fast forward to last night...

He asked me if I had seen his personal checkbook - when I asked "why aren't you using our joint account since you are using the $3k from the joint savings?" - He told me he only needed $1,600 now. I asked where the rest of the $3k was coming from - and THEN he told me the truth.

Truth is that we actually are on the hook for $11,600 and it's due tomorrow (Weds). He accepted a $5000 interest free loan from his boss without any written documentation whatsoever. He has a couple thousand more in the bank he never told me about that was in his personal account for this purpose. I'm shocked. Why?




I knew about the money he had stored away.

And.

I thought it was for my ring.




Here is the thing. My instant reaction here is pretty extreme. If we hadn't bought this house, I'd be taking a trial break for a while. I would be asking to separate for a time so I could gather my thoughts, I'd probably seek out some counseling on our relationship, and I'd explain that we needed to take a step back from moving ahead towards marriage until this issue could be resolved.

I'm trying to find another solution given the circumstances.

Things I have thought over the past 24 hours? I want to hire an attorney and draft a cohabitation agreement, documents entitling me to whatever profits come from my $1,600 contribution, and the details of what would happen if we were to split with regard to our assets and home. I want to hire a financial planner to manage our money and I want to split our accounts again, with each paying a portion of the bills/mortgage based on the percentages each party makes and contributes financially. And most of all? I want to tell him that this is a deal breaker for me and makes me reconsider marrying him, now or ever.



I could be over-reacting in theory. I'm trying really hard to be logical about this - it could be a FABULOUS investment! - but I'm more destroyed over the fact that simply because he thought his plan, his idea was better, he betrayed me in order to get what he wanted. He hid it from me. He was going to do whatever he wanted no matter what I said. He betrayed my trust and went back on his word - telling me what I wanted to hear in the moment and doing whatever he wanted anyway.

And I bought a house and intended to marry him.

I'll also admit that for me, this means putting a lot of things on hold. Not getting engaged, not having a wedding, not having kids as soon as I would like (I'm only 27 but we discussed having our first when I'm 30 yet here we are not even engaged?!) I'm successful in my own right, before I met him, this isn't a financial dependency issue...

I'm just so sad that all of the things I hoped for an expected in life are put on hold because of his decisions, wants, needs and desires.

I don't want to spend the rest of my life on hold, for him!?

Now I sit here...thinking.

I don't know if I can deal with this.

Am I over-reacting?

Is this a one-time investment or an indication of our future?

Should I leave? Get out while I'm still one and whole, sort of?

Can I forgive this?

Do I still even WANT to marry him given this situation?





Now what?

[Crazyaboutdogs]

You are definitely not over-reacting. You both agreed to joint management of finances and now he has dragged you into this investment against your will. This is not a good sign. I may be wrong, but I think men more than women tend to be the risk takers when it comes to financial investments....so when they come out ahead, they really come out ahead, and when they lose, they really lose. One thing I have always read in regards to investments...just because something is a winner in the past, there is no guarantee it will be a winner in the future. I think separating everything out is a wise idea. However, when two people get married, even if the finances are separate, if one person can't pay a debt, the other person is required to pay off the debt, no matter how unfair that is. I think you really need to take stock of this relationship and have good heart to heart talk with him about it being unacceptable that he went behind your back.

[notsoanonymous]

See, that is my issue. I'm OKAY with the idea of everything being combined when he isn't running around making life altering multi-thousand dollar decisions behind my back. Heck, I'm not even actually THAT WORRIED over the outcome of this particular investment.

I more feel like this is a betrayal, a lack of committment to "us" rather than "him"...

I wanted to marry him, I wanted to be engaged, I wanted to be a wife, start a family - How can he put himself before us?

And this took the wind out of my sails, big time. Now, I'm torn because I still want all those things... but not if this is the kind of hubby he would be.

God I could sit here at work crying right now, I'm so upset.

[notsoanonymous]

I'm trying to separate this out... I'm sorry I keep posting, I hope someone will respond.

I think my real sadness and hurt here is coming from more than just this investment. An example is that over the weekend, I worked really hard on some things around our new house (landscaping, painting, etc) and he built us a fence for our backyard. I praised him, told him how much I appreciated it... He criticised me for not remembering that I left four small garden tools outside on the front walk "because I was never taught to put things away when I was through with them."

I'm not a child. I don't need to be taught how to live life, I don't need to be chastised for leaving out a flipping garden spade and I don't need someone to make my financial investments for me.

I am SO good at doing so many things, but I don't get credit for them - and when he does there are at least three other negative comments...

It hasn't always been this way.

Now that it is, I'm miserable and $1,600 invested in something I didn't want to be, and I own a huge house with someone I may not ever get married to.

[Excalibur]

I re-read your post several times to get the particulars.

Here's the deal - first marriage does not protect your investment, it simply obligates you to the debts of the person that you're married to.

I know that you've purchased this house, comingled the assets under the premise that marriage would protect "your end" of the investment. Been there - done that - never works. Marriage is a legal contract of financial obligation/option and when you enter into it with someone who considers debt a no-issue status quo - you're now signing on to what they consider as an appropriate % of debt, for potentially you as a later-single person to absorb, in order to retain your credit line and options in life.

So marriage, as far as I'd be concerned - would be off the table as an option. He's too far indebt to be comfortable marrying, he's willing to incur debt based on specultation and joint assets - huge risk to you - cut the losses, stop all marriage discussion.

If marriage were not in the picture - the question becomes do you want to continue to cohabitate with him, restructuring the financal arrangements from what is currently available into "mine and yours" separately - as they are separate by law as there is no marriage.

That would leave you with the obligation to consult an attorney and on the back end of the deal create a contract for % of profit of sale for the joint home purchase, or what would become of the home in the event of a split of the relationship.

But seriously, your impression that marriage "fixes" this is absolutely incorrect. I might fix your impression that premarital sex is a sin - so marriage nullifies the sin. It might fix your impression that socially you're subpar - because you don't have a ring and his last name.

But attempting to use marriage as a means to fix financial indebtedness, loss and inappropriate comingling is folly.

In that regard, marriage is a contractual partnership for business purposes and financial solvency and security. You entering into that agreement with someone so emotionally driven, so lacking in rational review, is preposterous if you're to continue as a person with an option on credit and security foryour future.

If anything, for the relationship to remain intact and functional at any level, one of you needs to have good credit, ne of you needs to have an income that cannot be garnished due to nonpayment of taxes and debts, and one of you needs to be financially able to foot the lifestyle bill of your joint choosing..so that the other is free to incur the debt, spend freely, be spontaneous, etc.

You need to be the responsible party - not the spontaneous party - you're not cut out for what it requires to live on the edge and by the seat of your pants.

[notsoanonymous]

My impression is not that marriage fixes anything (like I said, why assume and speculate when you can ASK me that?). I know that my writing is combining my disappointment at him going against my wishes on a financial matter and my utter disappointment at not getting married right now, wondering if I effed up and made a bad choice by buying the house...

When it all comes down to it, I'm not happy in my relationship right now, but most of the things have been discussed, they are out in the open and we are working on them - but this one thing is really sending me over the edge...

[notsoanonymous]

Also Excaliber, thanks for the posting, I jsut have the hardest time relating to the things you say because I'm very emotionally attached to my life and my situation - you come off really logical and distant from emotional attachment, I jsut have the hardest time relating to you on this forum...

I know you are trying to be helpful, sorry if that comes off wrong... I jsut don't think under any circumstance you and I seem to see eye to eye.

[notsoanonymous]

Originally Posted by Excalibur

I might fix your impression that premarital sex is a sin - so marriage nullifies the sin. It might fix your impression that socially you're subpar - because you don't have a ring and his last name.

One other thing, I am not really concerned about the 'sin' aspect of marriage vs cohabitation, more that marriage is to me a commitment of much more than legal obligation. I want him to stand up before everyone and tell them all he loves me alone, and I want him to do that by putting a ring on my finger for the world to see.

Yeah, I'm naive.

I am what I am.

[Excalibur]

Well, he didn't "go against your wishes" on this financial matter. He heard your position and decided it wasn't as valid as his position and options and goals - and did what he beleived was right and his right.

Married or not he'd do that again - what he believes is right and his right. We all do.

If you're wanting marriage vs. a wedding - you can easily get married right now despite no ring or ceremony. Running down to the JP costs very little and you can have a full blown reception in a few years if the situation of debt resolves itself, while you retain your assets.

So you can easily get married right now - what is unlikely is that you can have an event of a wedding right now that is of the magnitude of your desires. That makes it much easier to determine if you're wanting marriage or a wedding, IMO.

But he didn't go against your wishes....he simply heard your position and didn't consider it as important or as correct as his perception, options, and goals...and he went with his own agenda.

You'll run into that quite alot in marriage.

[notsoanonymous]

I'm confused. You don't think telling me to my face that he wouldn't do it, then doing it anyway wasn't going against my wishes?

Especially when he knew that he would end up coming to me for some of that money - and borrowing from his boss which we agreed not to do because I was upset with the ideaa?