Husband won't return to counseling

[lonelygirl9]

My husband and I have been together for a total of 15 years, we lived together for 6 years, and have been married for the last 4 years. We have had many many problems, and many of them surfaced in the first year we moved in together. Wow, I sit here and try to put a nice neat picture on it, and it seems like so much, too much. I really don't know how we have lasted this long.

Well we had a baby two years ago in April and what was a simmering bad relationship has bubbled up to a near rolling boil. I found him searching for prostitutes in December, and he immediately agreed to counseling. I feel like the counseling helped somewhat, I think it could help, but he doesn't want to spend the money on it. He knows we have a problem and neither one of us can work on it with the other. He can't talk to me, and I can't talk to him. It's awful. We don't fight and bicker really, but we're seriously struggling.

I NEVER talk to strangers about this, but I'm going to put this out there in it's ugliest truest form. My husband and I met in our early twenties on a dope deal. He was selling marijuana, I was buying. My girlfriend took a shine to him, and invited him out with us, and he took a shine to me. I was not looking for a relationship at the time, and I was not exactly encouraging to him, but he was real persistent, and I'd never had any fella be that persistent and he was really cute. So we started dating, and although I thought I could just have a purely sexual relationship with no real strings attached, I'm not that sort of gal in my heart, and eventually I became seriously attached to him.
Fast forward 13 years... The year after we married, he said he was open to having children, in fact said he thought it was a responsibility for us to have children, and I agreed, but said I would raise them in the Catholic faith, and that I would have to start going back to church. Yup, massive change huh? I gave up the marijuana, after being a habitual smoker with my husband as my dope buddy for 13 years. I quit cigarettes, and quit birth control. He was made aware of this in full detail. I told him I was not taking contraception any more, and that I needed him to take a class with me on practicing natural family planning. I left the books around the house, I told him when the classes were, but he didn't want to spend either the $50 on it or spend a few Saturdays in a class together. He didn't pay me any attention. Today he says he was completely surprised when I got pregnant, even though he told his mother we were talking about having a baby, and she was glad that I had quit smoking because we were talking about having a baby. This is extremely frustrating for me, because from my point of view, I was doing everything I knew aside from throwing a tissy fit and telling him he HAD to go to the class with me. But beside that, he had already said he was open to children, and so I felt if I did get pregnant, it wouldn't be a horrible thing, I certainly didn't think that I would take any future blame.
Fast forward to the present time, I have no job, he's the sole support of the house, we have a beautiful two year old son, and we're both miserable. Today I found him looking at a forum for dad's seeking divorce advice, and he paints the most ugly picture of me you could imagine, filled with huge exaggerations (especially concerning my faith and the amount of time I spend in church) and some downright lies. Some of it was true though.

I'm just at a loss. I begged him last week to go back to the counselor, and he refused, then I find this divorce stuff. It's not the first time he's threatened divorce, he threatens to leave me several times a year and has done so for years. I honestly don't know how we've made it this far. So I begged him again today, to please go back to the counselor with me, and to please set some time aside to talk about it all. Tonight when he put the baby in his crib, I went out and sat on the couch, and he just shut the bedroom door without so much as a goodnight.

I can leave. My parents are not far, and my old bedroom has a double bed and a crib. It's certainly not what I want to do, but I just don't know what to do. Part of me thinks I should go, that it could force him into counseling, or at least into a decision of some sort. I don't know. I don't want a divorce, but I don't want this marriage that we have right now either. And I feel just so completely stupid for letting it go this far. I've had numerous opportunities to let him go, and I always fight to work things out. Here I am fighting again, but I'm weary, tired, and I don't have anything worth fighting for any more. I have so much resentment for him I can not work through this alone, I just can't do this alone anymore. We have just got to get some professional help, and his continued drug use must be addressed. I do not harp on him about the drug use other than to say he smokes too much, and comment on how it stinks on him. He does his best to hide it from the baby, but his best isn't very good, he's a real sloppy guy by nature. He once carried the nick name of Pig Pen, the boy from the Charlie Brown comic strip.

He was given the advice by a couple of posters on the dadsdivorce forum that I have signs of major depression, and that he needs to find me help. I'm begging him to get us help, and yes, it's absolutely, totally depressing, I feel like a stupid stupid woman.

I thank anyone for reading this far. Please be kind in your advice if you have any. PLEASE. I've been struggling with this for many years, and I've made a lot of stupid mistakes. I know that. A whole lot of stupid stupid mistakes. But here we are.

[Over Analyzer]

Your husband has his choices, you can't make up some-ones mind for them. My advice for you is to continue to go to a therapist on your own if you have to, work on your issues, this way you can give yourself more choices. All you can do is work on you if he sees a change it may help, but make the change for you not anyone else.

[whes]

I am not you and I don't know what I would do if I were in this situation. But you say that you can leave, that you have nothing left to fight for, that you cannot work through it alone, and that he threatens to leave several times a year. I think the thing that has been holding you two together is you.

All I can tell you is that my instinct would be to give him what he wants, and that is a divorce. If he hasn't changed in the last 15 years, he isn't going to change now, especially when he is resisting even going to therapy. I hate saying that because it feels like telling someone to give up. But it seems like you've been struggling and fighting with this man to keep things together to the detriment of your own strength and happiness.

Maybe eventually you could wear him down, I don't know, maybe he really can change. What it looks like now is that you have grown up, matured into a woman, and he is still in his twenties.

[Hellzapoppin]

How is he as a Father? Of course, the drugs need to be addressed, and smoking.

I would try to save the marriage, but first I'd try to make it a marriage WORTH saving. Good luck

[lonelygirl9]

Originally Posted by Over Analyzer

Your husband has his choices, you can't make up some-ones mind for them. My advice for you is to continue to go to a therapist on your own if you have to, work on your issues, this way you can give yourself more choices. All you can do is work on you if he sees a change it may help, but make the change for you not anyone else.

I could go to the counselor alone, that could help. Or I could find a counselor of my own, I've been thinking about doing that, one who is also a spiritual director (I have a particular woman in mind). I do need to make some changes, but I feel very frustrated by the marriage situation. It's a heavy weight on my mind, and also a social obstacle. I can't stop thinking about all the times when I went over and above for him, and at the same time he's wanting to leave me, and telling his family really terrible things about me, calling me names, it's disordered, I would never do that to him. Some of the threats have come straight out of the blue. I believe most of our problems are his own personal problems which need to be addressed, which is why I need to get him into counseling. I can work on me, I could leave and start a new life, well not new, but probably a better one. But I'm stuck with this guy for the rest of my life as he's the father of my son. I need him to get help for him, for me, for us, and for the baby.

[lonelygirl9]

Originally Posted by Rynna

I am not you and I don't know what I would do if I were in this situation. But you say that you can leave, that you have nothing left to fight for, that you cannot work through it alone, and that he threatens to leave several times a year. I think the thing that has been holding you two together is you.

All I can tell you is that my instinct would be to give him what he wants, and that is a divorce. If he hasn't changed in the last 15 years, he isn't going to change now, especially when he is resisting even going to therapy. I hate saying that because it feels like telling someone to give up. But it seems like you've been struggling and fighting with this man to keep things together to the detriment of your own strength and happiness.

Maybe eventually you could wear him down, I don't know, maybe he really can change. What it looks like now is that you have grown up, matured into a woman, and he is still in his twenties.

I know that I'm the glue that has held us together. That sounds like arrogance, but now it feels like just plain stupidity. I'd like to know why I've fought so hard in the past just to end up like this. What a rotten reward for my efforts...

It does seem as if he's stuck in his twenties, but so are his parents. His family history is extremely complicated, and there was a good deal of neglect, emotional abuse, serious verbal abuse, and even some physical abuse. He has a really good career, and he does manage to pay all the bills on time. He's a bit irresponsible with money when it comes to luxuries, and especially when it comes to the marijuana. Both his parents smoke dope, and he grew up with pot parties in his house till the time he was five, then lived through three different step fathers (with no dope in his presence anymore) before he ended up with his father who lived very openly with the drug use. His father is seriously stuck in his twenties. So both his parents smoke marijuana, and still have that party kind of attitude, and both have professional careers. Their personal lives are a disaster, but they have lots of stuff, and they look real good, if you know what I mean. He has a pretty good friendship with both of them.

Our first and only counseling session was a benefit to both of us, but he did most all of the talking. I became more keenly aware of just how hurtful was a relationship he had with one step dad in particular, it was a pivotal time in his life. I just know he would benefit from continued counseling. I guess in a lot of ways I've been his counselor for many years. Thing is, I'm not a counselor, I'm not trained to be unbiased, and I'm certainly emotionally invested. I probably have said some things that could have been said better or best not said at all. He calls the marijuana his medicine sometimes as a joke. It's not really a joke. The drug use is to make him feel better, of that I'm certain. It's a big part of his everyday life, and if he goes without it, he can really make me miserable with his sulking and irritability. He needs help, and as a family we need him to get help.

[juicey]

lonelygirl,

You can't make anyone change. You stopped smoking, but I don't think your husband ever planned on it or planned to become active in church. He doesn't want to grow up in your way, because he feels that he is grown up and doesn't have to change.

If you weren't Catholic going into the relationship, I think it is unfair to expect him to change to your religious ideals just because you have.

I think you are going to have to make a choice of what you can and will accept and stick with it. Although, you do know that Catholics believe the only reason for divorce is cheating?

[lonelygirl9]

Originally Posted by Hellzapoppin

How is he as a Father? Of course, the drugs need to be addressed, and smoking.

I would try to save the marriage, but first I'd try to make it a marriage WORTH saving. Good luck

He adores his son. He's a really good dad, a really good dad. He changes diapers and loves spending time with his baby. He's a really good guy with a good heart. There's just so much water under the bridge between us now. Maybe it's a loss of respect for each other that's part of the problem. He's told me several times since I became pregnant that he's only sticking around for the baby. Well, I feel it's more important now that we stay together because of the baby, but I'd never say that the baby is the only reason I'm staying.

He says these awful things, but at the same time, he buys me expensive gifts, and sometimes he can be genuinely loving. I know he's trying, and I know I can fix some of my attitudes towards him. He gets into a fight mode, a stonewall, becomes immovable. Things were much much better after the first counseling session, it was beneficial for us. That was before Christmas however, enough time's passed now that the residual effects of that single counseling session have faded.

I've had therapy in the past. I know it can help. He needs help, and as a family we all need him to get help. I believe he has some fear, because going to therapy is for him a sign of weakness. I'm sure he's realized that he needs some individual therapy, and that's just not acceptable under his standard of masculinity, a standard taught to him by his father, who is a rather heavy influence on him, and on us.

[lonelygirl9]

Originally Posted by juicey

lonelygirl,

You can't make anyone change. You stopped smoking, but I don't think your husband ever planned on it or planned to become active in church. He doesn't want to grow up in your way, because he feels that he is grown up and doesn't have to change.

If you weren't Catholic going into the relationship, I think it is unfair to expect him to change to your religious ideals just because you have.

I think you are going to have to make a choice of what you can and will accept and stick with it. Although, you do know that Catholics believe the only reason for divorce is cheating?

I don't understand why people jump to the conclusion that I'm trying to convert him. The church is my own thing, I don't ask him to come with me, I don't force it on him. I spend a good deal of time researching the faith, it's very interesting to me, the study of theology and world history. But you'd think he was coming home to me praying the rosary in Latin each night, and that's not the case. I say prayers with the baby before bed, and I say a blessing over the evening meal (only when we sit at the table, which is not often, we usually eat in front of the TV), and that's all the exposure he gets to the faith other than the books and stuff I have laying around.

I told him in no uncertain terms that I never expected him to convert. I told him I thought he probably would not be able to convert. I told him that was fine. He makes it a BIG problem between us, but I do not. I do not try to convert him. Sure it would be nice, but I can't make him become religious, I certainly can't make him become Catholic, and I'm not trying.

The church's view on the drug use says that you should follow the laws of the land. It makes no statement on the use of drugs except that everything should be done in moderation, i.e. you can drink, but don't get drunk, you can smoke, but don't make it a habit. This is just a good rule of thumb. My problem with his drug use is that it's just way too important to him, and in my opinion is a symptom of deeper problems which he's trying to forget. And besides that, I sure don't want my son to start smoking marijuana when he's 12 years old, or maybe even younger because his dad's got it laying around. College drug experimentation is one thing, but children should be protected from drugs until they've grown and matured into adulthood. That ain't no theology talking, that's modern psychology, and just plain common sense.

[lonelygirl9]

Originally Posted by juicey

lonelygirl,
Although, you do know that Catholics believe the only reason for divorce is cheating?

I'll just answer this for you, but I do not want this to turn into a religious debate. The Catholic faith does not allow divorce at all. What is done in the Catholic church is an investigation to see if a marriage every really existed in the first place, i.e. was there a commitment on behalf of both parties to fulfill their vows from the beginning. Cheating is not necessarily indicative of a want for commitment at the time the marriage took place. If you want any further answers on the topic of marriage annulments in the Catholic church, go to [Only registered and activated users can see links. ]. You will be able to ask your questions there and get some really well thought out answers. And you can debate there as well if you like.

Let's just say that my faith is not an obstacle to a divorce and leave it at that.