Gender reversal in divorce

[just M.E.]

All the guys who got took in a divorce can chuckle at my situation, but my personal believe is that "marrying someone should not be like winning the lottery" whether they are male or female.

I live in Colorado, a non-community property state. I have been the complete breadwinner during my marriage and have owned my real estate properties prior to marriage, 14 - 8 years for the properties.

I am trying to have a situation for a mutual settlement agreement but my ex (who is the dumper by the way) is blocking every reasonable attempt for a negotiated settlement. He seems to thrive on the power to say "No".

I have a lot of property at risk and he created a situation where he acquired absolutely no individual assets of his own either prior to and during the marriage. I took care of him financially and helped him start a business which we both own.

I want to keep the properties I already own and let him have the business.

Has anyone had any luck with someone controlling and unreasonable like this? It has been 6 mon and no movement. There seems to be a large amount of greed and pettiness on his part.

I can't simply "just file for divorce" as there are a number of things at risk that affect not only me but my daughter's and granddaughter's inheritance. I may have to take that course but was hoping someone had some experience?

I am in complete NC, just short of a restraining order, he has been told not to contact me whatsoever, by request of my lawyer.

[DN]

I am trying to have a situation for a mutual settlement agreement but my ex (who is the dumper by the way) is blocking every reasonable attempt for a negotiated settlement.

The problem in a divorce is that what one person sees as reasonable is unreasonable to the other. Especially where money is concerned.

What does your lawyer recommend?

[melrich]

Sorry, how long have you been married for?

[just M.E.]

I have been married for 7 years, my lawyer and I want to try one shot at negotiation then it looks like we will have not choice but to file for divorce in court. I don't like the concept of a judge making a decision for him and I, but I may have no choice.

I purchased these properties while raising my daughter for myself, and her and I ate a lot of macaroni and cheese and worked very hard to get this place, nothing extremely fancy but what I hoped for and what I want to leave her when I die.

A side note is that he signed a post-nuptial agreement, which if it stands up has some limitations. The post nuptial was more designed for distribution of my assets to my heirs than for divorce though. I was not planning to be in this situation. He was very angry with the post nuptial because a part of it declared he couldn't challenge my will. My will provided my real estate properties to my daughter and left him a comfortable life insurance policy ($500,000) which is roughly slightly less than the value of my properties. By the way, if he died I would only be left his debts.

I did not want my properties to go to him because of his alcohol and drug abuse, chances are he could lose them, I wanted them to remain in my family. I didn't care if he burned through the money.

This is a source of resentment for him and he feels "entitled" to more than was laid out in the post nuptial agreement.

I am told by my lawyer my proposal is very generous, he feels strongly that we would do well in court as the ex is a very dysfunctional person, prone to rages, etc. There is an implied threat in all my ex's response sand I know I won't really move forward until this is cleared, I wish I had a clue how to get this going forward.

He has moved on and I have no problems with that, I just want him to allow me to go and leave what I had before intact. The business we created is roughly equal in value to my property equity, so he would do well getting that.

[melrich]

I hope you can negotiate out of court.

If you only get one chance at the negotiation, make sure you have a very clear, definitive offer to him. Make it a little bit more attractive than you think it should be.

If I'm reading right between the lines, he needs the settlement as much if not more than you so he should be somewhat motivated not to take it to court.

[AutumnBorn]

The thing is, you can either give your money to your attorney or your spouse. It'll cost either way. Perhaps giving him another 5% will make him go away. Get a mediator, if needed.

[WhatThe]

While CO is 'community property', it is also one of the most punitive states around when it comes to divorce. You do realize he can ask for alimony, right?

There is a correlation between the divorce rate in CO and the high suicide rate for middle-aged men for a reason. For example, someone in a 20 year marriage who divorces in Illinois might be ordered to pay alimony for up to five years. In CO, it will probably be for LIFE if the parties are over age 50. Generally the payer is male. A lot of men just blow their brains out instead of paying thousands a month for life to a woman who never worked, cheated, and took half the assets and went to live with some other guy.

I saw one of these situations. I knew a guy who the day after he lost his job of 27 years, had his wife leave him, take their 17 year old daughter with her, and move to Kansas to shack with another guy. He made the mistake of filing in CO. He had to give her half of everything including his pension, his 401K AND back severance pay from the job he had lost. He was ordered to pay child support followed by four years of college for both his daughter AND his wife, who decided to go to nursing school. On top of all of that, he was ordered to pay $1600 a month in 'spousal support' FOR LIFE based on his 'imputed income' from his prior job. He couldn't find a job anywhere near his previous salary, but he had no money to pay a lawyer to get a reduction, which is very rarely granted here anyway. He ended up living in a one room apartment and working retail at $10 an hour. After paying all of the court-ordered items, he was negative cash flow, so he had to dip into what was left of his 401K constantly. Three years after the divorce, when his money ran out, he bought a pistol, drove to Kansas and blew his brains out in front of his ex.

If your husband gets a bulldog of a lawyer, watch out.

[just M.E.]

Colorado is not a community property state, the law read specifically the equity gained during the marital period can be split "up to but not more than 50%" - the 50% rule is variable, there are horror stories on each side, it depends on the judge. My assets owned are exempt EXCEPT for the equity gained during the marital period which would be subject to the divison of assets. The post nuptial agreement specifically exempts and defines the limitation of that split as it also gives him my half of the business. Colorado also has a law on the book acknowledging post nuptial agreements.

The fear of the irrational judgements is very real though, the post nuptial also denied either party "maintenance" as they call alimony here. I remained in the marriage to help him work through his alcohol abuse issues but only if he signed the post nuptial. He has stated the post nup is not valid, my lawyer thinks it is but has some poorly written portions.

Since he signed that, he is now searching for every loop hole, every doubtful item to attach. I do hope for an out of court settlement or a mediated settlement. If we go to court it will get expensive.

I supported my first husband and put him through college, it was a 3 yr marriage and he wanted to get "maitenance" from me. (yeah, I already know, losers)

But maybe he really isn't, maybe he will be the one laughing all the way to the bank. i hope not. I can take giveing a lot up, but I don't want it taken from my daughter and granddaughter. I may have that in my favor, I have heirs, he has none and never will have children. He is 10 yrs younger than me, so I also hope that would get some consideration.

By the way melrich, I would be dancing a jig if an extra 5% would settle this, but from numbers he has thrown out, he is trying to find a way to get more than the 50% and he thinks I have more money than I do. He's like a bulldog when he thinks he is "entitled" He is very narcissistic in how he behaves.

I have a good lawyer but that is killing me also, they come with a price tag.

[glimmerofhope]

I work in a family law practice in California, a community property state. Despite this fundamental difference in the applicable law, there is a principle at stake here that can be universally applied to situations such as your own: ALTERNATIVE DISPUTE RESOLUTION.

If your husband continues on his current path, before either of you know it you will have $100k or more in legal fees. You may want to check your retainer agreement, too, because many family law lawyers now jack up costs and fees if the case proceeds to trial. Even if they don't, the cost of a trial gets absurd fast.

Which returns me to alternative dispute resolution. Given how unreceptive your husband seems to be to the negotiations process, I would consult my attorney and request that he confer with your husband's counsel to set up a mediation or arbitration and get this thing settled. Those options can be expensive, too, but pale by comparison to a trial. They also carry with them a very high success rate for success.

Just a thought. Best of luck to you.

[just M.E.]

Thanks, glimmerofhope, we have thought of that also. What you mentioned in fees is not unrealistic, I have about $20K in this now already. That is my big fear about going through the courts and the fear of one person's opinions forever changing my life and that person being the judge. The cost and no control of the end result.
Divorce here seems to be a form of socialism, take from the one who has most and give to the other ....
The reason we are not going to make multiple attempts at negotiated offers before filing for divorce, is that I have no legal protection while living apart, once filed there is some small protection, as there is a base line for all the financial. Also, I watched my ex with his previous divorce (I should have figured this out) take over two years to settle a two year marriage.

Thanks for the information.

I talk to a therapist and her opinion is that he is seriously dysfunctional, probably narcissistic, and will not agree, because he enjoys the power of this situation and the creating drama. He is proving her correct by his actions so far.