My upcoming hearing with Child Protective Services

[manny_07]

Hi folks.

I wonder if anyone here has any experiences dealing with Child Protective Services, or whatever it might be called in your state.

Here's the story, as briefly as I can summarize it.

I am going through a messy divorce, and there has been a lot of arguing between myself and my soon to be ex-wife. We have 2 daughters, ages 11 and 15.

My older daughter was diagnosed as having asthma about 7 years ago and has been treated unsuccessfully with various medications including Advair, Singulair, and inhaled sterioids using a nebulizer. Her symptoms had improved somewhat during the last 2 years, and at some point we mutually agreed to stop the medications and see how she did. She seemed to be doing quite well. The other item of note is that we had a dog, which we gave back to the fellow we got him from, in our attempt to rid the house of any possible asthmatic triggers.

When the marriage started to fall apart about 1.5 years ago, I was away for the weekend and my wife decided to purchase 2 dogs, at a cost of about 3k. They are Yorkshire terriors, which supposedly have "low asthmatic properties". But of course no animal is free of asthma causing properties. Plus she was way out of line getting these dogs without consulting with me first.

We had an argument one day whereby my wife wanted me to replace the newly installed front door system (large glass panel door with 2 smaller windows on either side- called deadlights) with a solid wood door and panels because our older daughter had "expressed fear of someone seeing her through the glass". Now realize that the house has a central station alarm system (which is never used when they are home but it could be turned on at any time if they wanted) and the entire back of the house is all windows. Plus the backyard door is all glass as well. So replacing the front door with a solid wood door does nothing to increase security and is an irrational response to my older daughters fears- in my opinion. I suggested mini blinds over the glass panel. My wife wouldnt hear of it, and one of many arguments insued.

At one point, out of sheer frustration, I said words to the effect of "why don't I just teach her how to shoot my gun!". I have a licensed 357 Magnum that is kept safely out of sight. The children may be aware that I have a gun but they never saw it.

One morning while I was helping my then 10 year old get ready for school, the dogs were barking incessantly. At one point out of sheer frustration (I never wanted the dogs in the first place, they constantly barked and crapped all over the house), I went up to the pen that they are kept in (sometimes), and screamed in a booming voice to "Shut up!". The dogs cowered in the corner of the pen, and yes, I felt a perverse feeling of pleasure- I admit it. Until my younger daughter went up to the pen, picked up one of the dogs and held it. She was quite upset, and her mom played it to the max...look at your father and what he did!

One afternoon I received a call at work from my stbxw. She was supposed to take my daughter to the orthodondist for a checkup on her braces, but she wasn't going to be home in time. So I left work early, and came home to pick up my daughter. My daughter wanted to wait for her mother, and didn't want to go with me. As I said, things were "rocky" between myself and my daughter, and we were in the midst of one of our "fights". So again, out of sheer frustration, stress, etc, call it what you want, I said to her, "If you don't get in the car, I will pick you up and throw you in there". Note that I have NEVER been physical with my children, but at the same time I have never spoken to either one of them that way either. She got in the car, we went for the appointment, but of course mom was made aware of the whole incident.

One night my older daughter came home from the movies with her friends. She and her friends had apparently been looking at a pocket knife one of her friends had, and she wanted one because she thought it was cool. She and I had a bit of a rocky relationship, and I felt that by giving her a camping pocket knife I had as a child would help rebuild our relationship. So I gave it to her, even though her mom complained that she didnt want her to have the knife. In hindsight, my judgement in giving her the knife was questionable. Anyway...

So my older daughter is taken to the pediatrician a year ago May, with hiccups for 5 days straight. The pediatrician questions her, and finds out that her parents are fighting a lot due to an impending divorce and her parents opted on their own to discontinue the asthma meds. He says the hiccups are due to anxiety due to the "toxic environment in the household created by the arguing parents", and that we were "irresponsible for discontinuing the medications without consulting him first".

They call child protective services, who interview my wife and the children. She freaks out, is afraid they will "take the children away" and squarely puts the blame on me, and throws in all of the above incidents to show that I am the one causing all the problems in the house. I was at work, totally unaware of the developoing situation.

In the end, CPS finds me responsible for "improper guardianship" due to

1) Threatening physical violence by saying I was going to throw my daughter in the car
2) Threating the dogs in front of my 10 year old and causing her "emotional distress"
3) Giving my daughter a pocket knife
4) Offering to "teach my daughter to shoot a gun".

CPS found no further intervention necessary, but there is a record now on file with the State Registrar which will only be removed if the hearing (which I requested) results in a dropping of the charges. As long as that file is in place, I cannot "adopt a child", be a "big brother", and should I apply for employment in a "setting involving children", I will be questioned and problably not given the job. Not that any of that really matters, but who the heck wants something on file like that?

My present attorney has painted a rather pessimistic picture for me. He say he has done maybe a half a dozen of these hearings and they tend to "rubber stamp them", meaning that once CPS says there's "credible evidence of abuse/neglect/improper guardianship, it's difficult to overturn it, even though in my case the allegations are relatively mild.

Anyone been through something even remotely like this with CPS?

A final ironic twist. My stbxw took my eldest daughter to a new pediatrician after the first one called CPS, and the new pediatrician instantly realized that her coughing/barking/hiccupping was not consistent with asthma. After a referral to a pediatric neurologist and tons of new tests, she was eventually diagnosed with Tourettes syndrome. She NEVER had asthma.

[Clementine orange]

Oh my god, is your life ever a mess! Sorry man
No experience with protective services whatever but here's some suggestions

1.) Get some good legal advice
2.) Minimize all contact with ex, learn to be firm (but gentle)
3.) watch your temper above all, if you feel yourself getting annoyed (even with justification) walk away.
4.) consider getting rid of the gun
5.) be extremely gentle with the children. be friends with them
6.) start documenting all incidents verbatim

btw that dog thing would really annoy me too. You should have been consulted on that.

[melrich]

Sorry, I haven't been through anything like this and I live in another country so any knowledge I have may be irrelevant.

But I would say I am surprised that your lawyer is pessimistic. What you describe sounds to me like not much more than fairly average domestic altercations.

I mean who hasn't yelled at the dog, who hasn't "lost it" with their kids and I don't even see the relevance of the door issue (though it may have been easier to just give in on that one). Even the pocket knife (I probably agree with you in hindsight it may have been innappropriate) again who hasn't given their kid something that you may regret later.

Obviously things are pretty bad for you if your wife is taking these sort of things to CPS.

The only thing I can recommend is compiling a dossier of all the positive and good things you have done for your kids and presenting them as a counter. Also I'd be speaking to your lawyer about putting some of these claims against you into context. Your kids are into their teenage years, there is no history of abuse, they have been well looked after and brought up and all these incidents have occurred during the time you and your wife have been heading toward seperation.

[manny_07]

Originally Posted by Clementine orange

4.) consider getting rid of the gun

In fact, my gun and pistol permit were confiscated when I was served with an Order of Protection by my stbxw last May, which she retracted a month later in family court. I had to go through hoops and be interviewed by the police before they would return it. After I got it back, my lawyer told me I shouldn't have even tried to get it back. So yes, your advice is well taken.

Originally Posted by melrich

But I would say I am surprised that your lawyer is pessimistic. What you describe sounds to me like not much more than fairly average domestic altercations.

Exactly right, and that is what I have been told. However, once your life is being picked apart and run through a strainer by these various agencies, everything is looked at with a fine tooth comb, and even the most minor "transgressions" are taken way out of context.

Originally Posted by melrich

Obviously things are pretty bad for you if your wife is taking these sort of things to CPS.

Oh, things are about as bad as they can get. I haven't even gotten into the bogus Order of Protection that she filed, because I wouldn't move out at first. She retracted it a month later but it does show you how ugly this is.

To clarify: my stbxw did not call CPS, the pediatrician called CPS due to the "symptoms of anxiety in our child due to the toxicity in the household from the parents arguing" and due to "parents decision to discontinue the asthma medications". And again, she didn't even have asthma. She has Tourette's which caused the hiccups, although the stress in the house was most likely contributory. My stbxw was investigated by CPS as well, but in the end she was dropped from the case even though CPS found that "arguing in front of the children" did in fact occur, and that is considered "improper guardianship". Go figure.

Originally Posted by melrich

The only thing I can recommend is compiling a dossier of all the positive and good things you have done for your kids and presenting them as a counter. Also I'd be speaking to your lawyer about putting some of these claims against you into context. Your kids are into their teenage years, there is no history of abuse, they have been well looked after and brought up and all these incidents have occurred during the time you and your wife have been heading toward seperation.

That's a good idea. I have spoken to him about the claims out of context, especially my comment about "teaching her to shoot a gun" which was meant facetiously.

[melrich]

especially my comment about "teaching her to shoot a gun" which was meant facetiously

Yes I got that which is why I didn't mention it.

I think the golden rule of any court appearance, anywhere in the world is preparation.

If you are going to go before a judge to clear this from your file (and I would) then absolutely load up with every positive event, outcome and behaviour that you can. You won't get the chance to go through it all but you will be able to lodge thje documentation in support of your parenthood.

Based on what you have posted I have to believe that a court would apply common sense to this case and recognise these issues for what they are.

[manny_07]

Originally Posted by melrich

Based on what you have posted I have to believe that a court would apply common sense to this case and recognise these issues for what they are.

Here's hoping! Thanks for the words of support. The hearing is 1 month from now. I'll post the outcome.

Meanwhile if anyone else has any other good suggestions please send them my way. The more the better.

[CarnelianButterfly]

Originally Posted by manny_07

To clarify: my stbxw did not call CPS, the pediatrician called CPS due to the "symptoms of anxiety in our child due to the toxicity in the household from the parents arguing" and due to "parents decision to discontinue the asthma medications". And again, she didn't even have asthma. She has Tourette's which caused the hiccups, although the stress in the house was most likely contributory. My stbxw was investigated by CPS as well, but in the end she was dropped from the case even though CPS found that "arguing in front of the children" did in fact occur, and that is considered "improper guardianship". Go figure.

The doctor was right to call them. You said asthma treatments helped her breathing, they wouldn't do anything for Tourette's, so it is likely that your daughter did have asthma (it is common for children to grow out of it if they have proper care) and it was irresponsible for you as parents to stop treatment without talking to a doctor. She may have Tourette's, but swelling of the bronchial tubes is not a symptom of Tourette's. She should have seen a doctor and her condition re-evaluated and the doctor should be the one to decide if there is no more need of medication.

[manny_07]

Originally Posted by CarnelianButterfly

The doctor was right to call them. You said asthma treatments helped her breathing, they wouldn't do anything for Tourette's, so it is likely that your daughter did have asthma (it is common for children to grow out of it if they have proper care) and it was irresponsible for you as parents to stop treatment without talking to a doctor. She may have Tourette's, but swelling of the bronchial tubes is not a symptom of Tourette's. She should have seen a doctor and her condition re-evaluated and the doctor should be the one to decide if there is no more need of medication.

Wrong.

The coughing/hiccupping/barking spasms were due to a constriction of the muscles surrounding the bronchial tubes due to the neurological effects of Tourettes.

She never had swelling of the bronchial tubes, she was mistakenly diagnosed as having asthma by an incompetant pediatrician who compounded his error by contacting CPS.

The asthma medications never helped her breathing. The spasmic episodes self resolve within a few hours on their own. The medications did not work at all because she was being treated for a nonexistant condition.

[Daligal83]

I don't work for CPS, but I do work in foster care. First, you said that your lawyer is pessimistic. Do you think he's representing you fairly? If not, get another lawyer ASAP. Make sure he/she does everything possible for you in this hearing. Make sure the lawyer understands that most of this is coming from your wife that you do not have a positive relationship with. Question her credibility. It's now on CPS to prove to a judge that you are indeed an "improper guardian."

Second, I've never dealt with a CPS hearing, but I do know that they cannot just terminate your rights from the beginning. If this hearing does not go your way and they keep the indicated report, they are obligated to offer you services to make sure that you maintain your rights. They'd probably make you sign up for parenting and anger management classes, as well as counseling. The point is, this does not mean that you lose your rights. Make sure that you get visitation, which will be supervised at first. As long as you follow your court menu and do whatever is asked of you, chances are you'll get everything back to normal. Nothing is guaranteed, but if you don't do the menu or what they ask, you'll definitely lose your rights. Federal law states that parents have 15 out of 22 months to complete their menu. They figure if a parent hasn't gotten their act together by 15 months, it's not happening. Then the process of termination of parental rights starts. So if you do keep the indicated report, don't let that happen.

If you have any other questions, let me know. Again I deal with a different aspect of the system, but I may be able to be of some help.

[manny_07]

Originally Posted by Daligal83

First, you said that your lawyer is pessimistic. Do you think he's representing you fairly? If not, get another lawyer ASAP.

Ugh. I know. This is my third attorney so far. I picked him because he was highly recommended. He has done some other things that make me question if he is the best one to represent me, not only in this CPS case but also in my divorce. The thought of switching yet again is not a very favorable thought. But your advice is well taken.

Originally Posted by Daligal83

Make sure the lawyer understands that most of this is coming from your wife that you do not have a positive relationship with. Question her credibility. It's now on CPS to prove to a judge that you are indeed an "improper guardian."

Well, there's no question that all of the above incidences happened. My wife made CPS aware of them because she was trying to deflect all the heat off of herself. At this point the damage has been done, and it's up to me to put it all in context.

Originally Posted by Daligal83

Second, I've never dealt with a CPS hearing, but I do know that they cannot just terminate your rights from the beginning. The point is, this does not mean that you lose your rights. Make sure that you get visitation, which will be supervised at first.

CPS has no intention of terminating my parental rights. They dropped the entire investigation without recommending intervention, or a social worker, parenting classes, etc. This whole thing would be a dead issue except I don't want it in my file that they found "credible evidence of me being an improper guardian" to my children. Even though my second attorney was of the opinion that it makes no difference that it's in my file because it won't affect me. I just don't want it there.

It also may be used against me as the divorce proceeds. There's no doubt my stbx will use anything available to her to limit my access to the children in terms of custody and visitation, and if the CPS findings do stick, then it's more ammunition for her going forward. I have posted another thread about how my relationship with my children has been very adversely affected by the divorce and my wife's actions.