Big decision, big step

Pieter · 08-30-2007, 08:25 AM

Hi, what an excellent website! I need some advice, not approval. I think I came to the right place. We have been married for three years now, still young, no kids. Currently I am experiencing that phrase "I love you but I am not in love with you" - I know, it is pathetic. But I think my case differs from other in the sense that I always knew that there were something lacking in our relations, before marriage and after marriage. Why I did not do anything about it? Because I never saw it as a problem.

Thing is, somebody else referred somewhere here on this website to intimate connection. That is precisely what is lacking. I love my wife, but not in the way that I want to be intimate with her or show her my love by hugging and kissing. I think you could say that I love her as a friend, because that is actually what sums our relationships up good, we are friends, live like friends and enjoy each others company. We never had sex before marriage - so I never had the opportunity to experience sex with my wife beforehand in order to realize that intimate connection is not part of our relationship. Thing is, I don’t think that the lack of intimate connection could be brought back.

My wife does not deserve to not experience the same kind of love that she provides me with. This is sad; I know I made a commitment, but what if the commitment were made on the wrong foundation? She realizes that I have not been able to show my love, by just kissing her or touching her and I know this is of great concern to her (also to me). I treat her like my friend and not like my wife, this is not right. Counseling will not work; you can’t bring something back that was never there. Please help. I have been thinking about divorce and it seems like the best thing to do, not for me only, but also for my wife, because she deserves to be loved like she loves me.

prizmpyxis · 08-30-2007, 09:50 AM

Hi there,

It kind've seems to me that you have made up your mind that divorce is the best option, and is necessary. However, it also sounds like you haven't tried much to repair the relationship or to even make it work. I think that given time and attending counseling sessions might be beneficial to your marriage, and that maybe you can achieve the intimacy that you so desire. You can't just ultimately rule that out because you don't believe it will work.

If after trying, nothing works, then maybe divorce is a necessary step. However, I just feel like you should at least work on the marriage before you make that decision.

StretchGee · 08-30-2007, 10:06 AM

Counseling will work if you want it to work. Your will is the problem. Where there’s a will there’s a way.

Do you want to leave your wife and are looking for an excuse? By remaining stubborn and denying the will to become intimate, you can make this happen. It may take a long and painful time, however.

I’d suggest you either find the will to fix your intimacy issue (books, counseling, ‘just do it’; whatever) or gather enough courage to tell your wife and friend that you cannot be intimate with her.

You say you did not have sex before marriage. Do you have sex now?

After three years have you found someone else that shines a light on the ‘lacking’ in your marriage?

Pieter · 08-31-2007, 03:24 AM

Hi, I did give this some work, for the past year I have tried to focus on what exactly is the problem. Thing is, if one has no desire or are not attracted to someone sexually then there is nothing you can do about it. My wife is not a sex object and I will not use her for the sex. Yes, we had sex after our marriage and it were okay, but no fire works - because no intimate connection is there.

It’s been two months since we last had sex. There is nothing wrong with me or her - I do have the willingness to have sex, just not with her. She is beautiful and a sweet woman - we do not fight, until only recently when she could feel the 'coldness' from my side regarding showing my love and having sex. No, I have not found someone else that shines a light on the 'lacking' in my marriage - there is no third person involved in this situation. I will never consider cheating on my wife - that would make me less of a man. I am really devastated, because this feeling has been with me for the past 6 months and I can’t seem to get rid of it. If I tell my wife about this, you could consider the marriage as over - who would want stay with someone who cannot show you that he loves you and do not have the willingness to be intimate with you? Be honest, would you stay with someone that says that he loves you as an friend but not as a wife?

I have a lot to loose should I go down the divorce road, therefore, believe me, I have thought about this 24/7 for the past 6 months. Maybe, some people are just not meant to be together. I know se loves me and last night she said that I do not know how much I hurt her by acting the way I do - I have been keeping myself one side in order to sort myself out. Those words really broke me. This is were I have to decide - do I continue hurting her in this marriage by not being a man, but rather a friend - or do I end this now, hurting her again, but at least she will have answers to her questions and will be able to go on with her life. I promise you, by going to counseling, it is not going to bring that intimate connection in our marriage - because it were never there AND she will think in another way of me, she will always ask herself if the love that I show, is it because I have to or because I want to?

I believe that you can learn to love someone, like a friend, but not like a wife. Intimate love is not something you can force, it must come naturally. It may seem as if I gave up on this marriage -not at all, I just need to make a decision because I can’t keep going on like this. I am not looking for an excuse to leave my wife - this is reality and something that I must face. As said, we were best buddies who became man and wife. How would you feel if you always must ask someone why don’t you show me that you love me? I know, I seem like a monster, but I just think that I owe this honesty to my wife, I cannot live in a 'pretend-to-love' marriage, because kids are not going to make up for that lost. No marriage can survive without intimate connection.

StretchGee · 08-31-2007, 09:46 AM

Pieter,
I find your post very interesting because what you write is almost exactly my situation. I’ve been married 10 years and am a bit older, but the situation you describe is exactly where I am at: An amicable marriage that is flat, with a desire to find ‘intimacy’ but not seeing how intimacy can happen in my present relationship. A ‘friendly’ marriage with a growing coldness and no desire to improve the situation.

I’ve thought about this 24/7 for about two years. I’ve read up on what I can do. I’ve hid my ‘dirty little secret’ out of shame and fear. The disquiet only grows worse.

If I had an easy answer to my problem, I’d probably not be surfing the ‘divorce boards’ all over the web. I’ve read a whole bunch of books and am seriously considering some sort of therapy. I have not discussed my problem with my wife or friends as I feel it will destroy my relationship. Ironically, my relationship is slowly being destroyed anyway.

The only insight I have now is that the problem is not intimacy. It is my own dissatisfaction with my life. This ‘quiet desperation’ may be called mid-life crisis, or the disquiet, or ambivalence. Whatever it is it is a psychic poison that saps the will.

Like you, in the first six months, I thought the problem was my marriage. If I simply get a new relationship, I’ll be happy. It became clear that my relationship was not the only thing suffering. Every facet of my life is affected by my discontent; the most prominent affect being noticeable was with my wife. I too had the feeling that ‘that there was something lacking in our relations’, but now I think that that is an illusion brought on by the state of mind in the present.

My fear, and my caution to you, is to take care in seeking change as a means to solve this mess. In my case I believe the demon is my personal demon. Not a problem with my wife or relationship, but a problem with me. A quick change will bring momentary peace though infatuation and romance much like a drug. A distraction, not a cure. In three years I’ll be older and in the same position with the same mindset. If you divorce your wife and find your ‘soul mate’, will you find yourself back here in 3-5 years with the same problem?

Unfortunately, I have no easy answer. I do know from reading and searching that this problem is very common and seems to be mostly a male thing. Certainly if any enotaloners have any advice I’d love to hear it (sorry to hi-jack your thread).

Stretch

Crazyaboutdogs · 08-31-2007, 09:55 AM

Quote:

But I think my case differs from other in the sense that I always knew that there were something lacking in our relations, before marriage and after marriage. Why I did not do anything about it? Because I never saw it as a problem.

Actually your case is not so different from other cases I have seen on this board, and a few other married people I have seen. When a marriage doesn't start off with an intimate connection (I am talking about the emotional and physical connection, but physical in the sense of attraction, not necessarily having had sex), it is unlikely that will develop. It is important to have the friendship, but equally important to have a strong emotional/physical connection. Many of the people who have gotten married to "friends" could not make the relationship work. In fact, I read a bit of a biography on the author, Jack London, and he apparently married a woman who was in his circle of friends. He was not in love with her but just thought she would make a good partner. The marriage didn't last. When a couple have had the connection before marriage and then things dwindle, with hard work, it is possible to rekindle the flame. However, if the flame was never there to begin with, there is nothing to rekindle. I don't think it is giving up to end this marriage...I think it is simply fixing the mistake that was made...ending a marriage that never should have happened in the first place. You don't stay in a marriage just for appearances or to show that you haven't given up. If something is not working and there is no way to fix it, it is best to get out of it rather than live an empty life. You both deserve to find someone who really knocks your socks off. Marriage is not only about two people going through life as friends, it should also be about two people going through life with an intimate connection.

Crazyaboutdogs · 08-31-2007, 10:02 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by StretchGee

Pieter,
I find your post very interesting because what you write is almost exactly my situation. I’ve been married 10 years and am a bit older, but the situation you describe is exactly where I am at: An amicable marriage that is flat, with a desire to find ‘intimacy’ but not seeing how intimacy can happen in my present relationship. A ‘friendly’ marriage with a growing coldness and no desire to improve the situation.

I’ve thought about this 24/7 for about two years. I’ve read up on what I can do. I’ve hid my ‘dirty little secret’ out of shame and fear. The disquiet only grows worse.

If I had an easy answer to my problem, I’d probably not be surfing the ‘divorce boards’ all over the web. I’ve read a whole bunch of books and am seriously considering some sort of therapy. I have not discussed my problem with my wife or friends as I feel it will destroy my relationship. Ironically, my relationship is slowly being destroyed anyway.

The only insight I have now is that the problem is not intimacy. It is my own dissatisfaction with my life. This ‘quiet desperation’ may be called mid-life crisis, or the disquiet, or ambivalence. Whatever it is it is a psychic poison that saps the will.

Like you, in the first six months, I thought the problem was my marriage. If I simply get a new relationship, I’ll be happy. It became clear that my relationship was not the only thing suffering. Every facet of my life is affected by my discontent; the most prominent affect being noticeable was with my wife. I too had the feeling that ‘that there was something lacking in our relations’, but now I think that that is an illusion brought on by the state of mind in the present.

My fear, and my caution to you, is to take care in seeking change as a means to solve this mess. In my case I believe the demon is my personal demon. Not a problem with my wife or relationship, but a problem with me. A quick change will bring momentary peace though infatuation and romance much like a drug. A distraction, not a cure. In three years I’ll be older and in the same position with the same mindset. If you divorce your wife and find your ‘soul mate’, will you find yourself back here in 3-5 years with the same problem?

Unfortunately, I have no easy answer. I do know from reading and searching that this problem is very common and seems to be mostly a male thing. Certainly if any enotaloners have any advice I’d love to hear it (sorry to hi-jack your thread).
Stretch

You bring up some very important points about searching within yourself to find out if the unhappiness is the marriage or something within yourself. Stretch, when you got married, did you feel in love with your wife at the time, or did you have, like the original poster, doubts before marriage and you went ahead with it anyway? Have you had doubts the entire marriage? If so, why did you continue on for 10 years? Do you have regrets about staying in the marriage? I think the OP should consider all angles, including searching within himself...but I also think that if the feelings weren't there to begin with, to continue on for another 5-10 years would be a mistake and would lead to more regrets down the road. Life is too short to live unhappily.

StretchGee · 08-31-2007, 10:14 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Crazyaboutdogs

When a marriage doesn't start off with an intimate connection (I am talking about the emotional and physical connection, but physical in the sense of attraction, not necessarily having had sex), it is unlikely that will develop. It is important to have the friendship, but equally important to have a strong emotional/physical connection.

How can you tell the difference between an 'intimate connection' brought on by the hormonal bliss of romantic love versus the proverbial 'soul mate' connection?

I have also seen a fair number of folks on this board and others that would cherish a relationship where they were ‘friends’ with their spouses. And a lot of people are intimate with their friends.

I certainly believe that everyone deserves someone who really knocks their socks off, but is this possible 24/7/365 without hard work? Or is ‘serial monogamy’ the answer: jumping from new relationship to new relationship in order to keep the rush of newness alive? If there is no will to develop and maintain intimacy, then it will not happen.

Again, I caution against jumping ship when not being sure the hull is damaged. It is said you can count the number of true friends in your lifetime on one hand. If your wife is a ‘true friend’, and not simply an acquaintance, then fighting to gain intimacy may be a worthwhile endeavor rather than casting off a friendship to look elsewhere. There are a lot of arranged marriages in this world that work (perhaps none of them are truly happy).

StretchGee · 08-31-2007, 10:55 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Crazyaboutdogs

You bring up some very important points about searching within yourself to find out if the unhappiness is the marriage or something within yourself. Stretch, when you got married, did you feel in love with your wife at the time, or did you have, like the original poster, doubts before marriage and you went ahead with it anyway? Have you had doubts the entire marriage? If so, why did you continue on for 10 years? Do you have regrets about staying in the marriage? I think the OP should consider all angles, including searching within himself...but I also think that if the feelings weren't there to begin with, to continue on for another 5-10 years would be a mistake and would lead to more regrets down the road.

Ahh, the rub. I’m not sure if there was love in my marriage from the start. I think and fear this may be a trick of memory. Once you start to focus on the ‘bad times’ to rationalize leaving, then the good memories are pushed aside. There was ‘love’, but was it full on, soul mate, passion and flames? I don’t really remember.

I did have doubts then. Cold feet, as it were. And I have doubts and regrets now. Ambivalence, as it is.

To good to leave, to bad to stay is the cliché. That is why I’ve stayed so long. I’ve read a lot about people that were unhappy in their marriage now are happy five years from now. So the odds suggest I can be happily divorced or happily married in five years. Conversely, I can be unhappily divorced or unhappily married.

My personal ‘solution’ is to fix myself. To get myself happy, independent of my marriage. Easier said than done, but it is a funk I must work though or I feel it will follow me no matter what I do.

The real problem with this is that my wife is involved. However, to level with her is a sure relationship killer (isn’t it?). But there is clearly some ambivalence foisted on her simply by my internal struggle leaking into the relationship. I do feel the guilt of what my crisis may doing to my wife, however. We are still affectionate and do things together, but the marriage has definitely cooled. I am not sure how she feels about ‘all this’ as I am afraid to ask.

Wow. Writing that paragraph really make it plain that I need to share my issues with my wife. That would certainly bring ‘change’ to the situation! And so goes the nature of the ambivalence and fear…

Pieter: Have you shared your true feelings with your wife? How did that go?

Quote:

Originally Posted by Crazyaboutdogs

Life is too short to live unhappily.

Which is why I need to get happy, then ge on with life (in that order). Note that I am not miserable...just 'uncomfortable'. My life is not pathos and loathing, just a vague feeling of lacking contentment. And this lack reflects in all facets of my life including my relationship.

StretchGee · 08-31-2007, 11:00 AM

A few weeks back I was talking to my wife about taking a trip with some firends. She said 'If you don't want to be married, just let me know'. My heart jumped: was this my oppurtunity to say 'No, I don't. I'll pack my things.' How easy and liberating that would have been.

However, the years of thinking about this has brought me to caution. Healthy or otherwise. If I decided to leave tomorrow, I am being honest to myself and to the reasons I want to leave. I am really unhappy with my spouse or simply unhappy (with me and everything).

I think talking though this with a therapist is likely the best way to get some more traction. At least I may be able to get the courage and clarity to end my marriage or to really work to fix it.

08-30-2007, 08:25 AM	#1
Pieter Offline Member Join Date: Aug 2007 Posts: 29	Big decision, big step Hi, what an excellent website! I need some advice, not approval. I think I came to the right place. We have been married for three years now, still young, no kids. Currently I am experiencing that phrase "I love you but I am not in love with you" - I know, it is pathetic. But I think my case differs from other in the sense that I always knew that there were something lacking in our relations, before marriage and after marriage. Why I did not do anything about it? Because I never saw it as a problem. Thing is, somebody else referred somewhere here on this website to intimate connection. That is precisely what is lacking. I love my wife, but not in the way that I want to be intimate with her or show her my love by hugging and kissing. I think you could say that I love her as a friend, because that is actually what sums our relationships up good, we are friends, live like friends and enjoy each others company. We never had sex before marriage - so I never had the opportunity to experience sex with my wife beforehand in order to realize that intimate connection is not part of our relationship. Thing is, I don’t think that the lack of intimate connection could be brought back. My wife does not deserve to not experience the same kind of love that she provides me with. This is sad; I know I made a commitment, but what if the commitment were made on the wrong foundation? She realizes that I have not been able to show my love, by just kissing her or touching her and I know this is of great concern to her (also to me). I treat her like my friend and not like my wife, this is not right. Counseling will not work; you can’t bring something back that was never there. Please help. I have been thinking about divorce and it seems like the best thing to do, not for me only, but also for my wife, because she deserves to be loved like she loves me.

08-30-2007, 09:50 AM	#2
prizmpyxis Offline Bronze Member Join Date: Oct 2006 Location: New York Gender: Female Age: 22 Posts: 215	Hi there, It kind've seems to me that you have made up your mind that divorce is the best option, and is necessary. However, it also sounds like you haven't tried much to repair the relationship or to even make it work. I think that given time and attending counseling sessions might be beneficial to your marriage, and that maybe you can achieve the intimacy that you so desire. You can't just ultimately rule that out because you don't believe it will work. If after trying, nothing works, then maybe divorce is a necessary step. However, I just feel like you should at least work on the marriage before you make that decision.

08-30-2007, 10:06 AM	#3
StretchGee Offline Gold Member Join Date: Jul 2007 Location: USA Gender: Male Age: 44 Posts: 681	Counseling will work if you want it to work. Your will is the problem. Where there’s a will there’s a way. Do you want to leave your wife and are looking for an excuse? By remaining stubborn and denying the will to become intimate, you can make this happen. It may take a long and painful time, however. I’d suggest you either find the will to fix your intimacy issue (books, counseling, ‘just do it’; whatever) or gather enough courage to tell your wife and friend that you cannot be intimate with her. You say you did not have sex before marriage. Do you have sex now? After three years have you found someone else that shines a light on the ‘lacking’ in your marriage?

08-31-2007, 03:24 AM	#4
Pieter Offline Member Join Date: Aug 2007 Posts: 29	Hi, I did give this some work, for the past year I have tried to focus on what exactly is the problem. Thing is, if one has no desire or are not attracted to someone sexually then there is nothing you can do about it. My wife is not a sex object and I will not use her for the sex. Yes, we had sex after our marriage and it were okay, but no fire works - because no intimate connection is there. It’s been two months since we last had sex. There is nothing wrong with me or her - I do have the willingness to have sex, just not with her. She is beautiful and a sweet woman - we do not fight, until only recently when she could feel the 'coldness' from my side regarding showing my love and having sex. No, I have not found someone else that shines a light on the 'lacking' in my marriage - there is no third person involved in this situation. I will never consider cheating on my wife - that would make me less of a man. I am really devastated, because this feeling has been with me for the past 6 months and I can’t seem to get rid of it. If I tell my wife about this, you could consider the marriage as over - who would want stay with someone who cannot show you that he loves you and do not have the willingness to be intimate with you? Be honest, would you stay with someone that says that he loves you as an friend but not as a wife? I have a lot to loose should I go down the divorce road, therefore, believe me, I have thought about this 24/7 for the past 6 months. Maybe, some people are just not meant to be together. I know se loves me and last night she said that I do not know how much I hurt her by acting the way I do - I have been keeping myself one side in order to sort myself out. Those words really broke me. This is were I have to decide - do I continue hurting her in this marriage by not being a man, but rather a friend - or do I end this now, hurting her again, but at least she will have answers to her questions and will be able to go on with her life. I promise you, by going to counseling, it is not going to bring that intimate connection in our marriage - because it were never there AND she will think in another way of me, she will always ask herself if the love that I show, is it because I have to or because I want to? I believe that you can learn to love someone, like a friend, but not like a wife. Intimate love is not something you can force, it must come naturally. It may seem as if I gave up on this marriage -not at all, I just need to make a decision because I can’t keep going on like this. I am not looking for an excuse to leave my wife - this is reality and something that I must face. As said, we were best buddies who became man and wife. How would you feel if you always must ask someone why don’t you show me that you love me? I know, I seem like a monster, but I just think that I owe this honesty to my wife, I cannot live in a 'pretend-to-love' marriage, because kids are not going to make up for that lost. No marriage can survive without intimate connection.

08-31-2007, 09:46 AM	#5
StretchGee Offline Gold Member Join Date: Jul 2007 Location: USA Gender: Male Age: 44 Posts: 681	Pieter, I find your post very interesting because what you write is almost exactly my situation. I’ve been married 10 years and am a bit older, but the situation you describe is exactly where I am at: An amicable marriage that is flat, with a desire to find ‘intimacy’ but not seeing how intimacy can happen in my present relationship. A ‘friendly’ marriage with a growing coldness and no desire to improve the situation. I’ve thought about this 24/7 for about two years. I’ve read up on what I can do. I’ve hid my ‘dirty little secret’ out of shame and fear. The disquiet only grows worse. If I had an easy answer to my problem, I’d probably not be surfing the ‘divorce boards’ all over the web. I’ve read a whole bunch of books and am seriously considering some sort of therapy. I have not discussed my problem with my wife or friends as I feel it will destroy my relationship. Ironically, my relationship is slowly being destroyed anyway. The only insight I have now is that the problem is not intimacy. It is my own dissatisfaction with my life. This ‘quiet desperation’ may be called mid-life crisis, or the disquiet, or ambivalence. Whatever it is it is a psychic poison that saps the will. Like you, in the first six months, I thought the problem was my marriage. If I simply get a new relationship, I’ll be happy. It became clear that my relationship was not the only thing suffering. Every facet of my life is affected by my discontent; the most prominent affect being noticeable was with my wife. I too had the feeling that ‘that there was something lacking in our relations’, but now I think that that is an illusion brought on by the state of mind in the present. My fear, and my caution to you, is to take care in seeking change as a means to solve this mess. In my case I believe the demon is my personal demon. Not a problem with my wife or relationship, but a problem with me. A quick change will bring momentary peace though infatuation and romance much like a drug. A distraction, not a cure. In three years I’ll be older and in the same position with the same mindset. If you divorce your wife and find your ‘soul mate’, will you find yourself back here in 3-5 years with the same problem? Unfortunately, I have no easy answer. I do know from reading and searching that this problem is very common and seems to be mostly a male thing. Certainly if any enotaloners have any advice I’d love to hear it (sorry to hi-jack your thread). Stretch

08-31-2007, 11:00 AM	#10
StretchGee Offline Gold Member Join Date: Jul 2007 Location: USA Gender: Male Age: 44 Posts: 681	A few weeks back I was talking to my wife about taking a trip with some firends. She said 'If you don't want to be married, just let me know'. My heart jumped: was this my oppurtunity to say 'No, I don't. I'll pack my things.' How easy and liberating that would have been. However, the years of thinking about this has brought me to caution. Healthy or otherwise. If I decided to leave tomorrow, I am being honest to myself and to the reasons I want to leave. I am really unhappy with my spouse or simply unhappy (with me and everything). I think talking though this with a therapist is likely the best way to get some more traction. At least I may be able to get the courage and clarity to end my marriage or to really work to fix it.