My boss is getting deeper and deeper into debt....

freeindeed · 08-15-2007, 05:53 PM

Hi everyone,
I've been at my job for about 6 years now. It's a very small business, at its largest its had 4 employees. Over a year ago everyone left except me. They didn't leave all at once, it was over a period of a few months. But I decided to stay and stick it out. I was moved to the highest ranked position (obviously since there was no one else left) and took over many of the responsibilities that each of the employees had. We hired 1 outside employee that comes into the office 4 times a month.

At that time, my boss did not give me a raise, even though my duties had increased. However I wasn't offended as I didn't know if I was even capable of doing everything he needed me to, so forgetting about the raise was a little bit of an excuse for me. Kinda like a "since he doesn't pay me as much, it won't be so bad if I screw up" sort of thing. And then I started to have to oversee the some financial aspects of his company. This is where I found out that he is about $300,000 in credit debt, and owes about $1,000,000 in loans.

I know this is not my personal problem, but now that I know that, it's hard to ask for my paycheck twice a month. Even without the knowledge that he's in so much debt, it's just difficult in general for me because I'm the the messenger from the accountant to him to tell him how much he needs to deposit into the Corporate account so that I can cash my check. I feel absolutely awful when he says, "well, where can I deposit the money from?" Like I'm supposed to come up with a magical answer of where his money should come from.

His CPA has told him that he needs to cut down on expenses (eating out with his family every night of the week, which is about $65-100 nightly). And their grocery bill is about $300-400 every weeks or so. But he doesn't listen. They are living beyond their means.

What made me want to write this post is that I just found out today (he gave me the papers showing it) that he took out another $20,000 loan where the finance charge alone is $8,000. That's ridiculous to me. Especially because according to the bookkeeper, that money will be gone by the end of this month because of his bills.

Honestly, I want to jump ship (like everyone else has - I'm sure they knew something), but my boss is a nice guy, the job is a 9-5 but since I've been here so long my boss works with me if I need a little flexibility (which helps with my other job), it's decent pay (even though I feel guilt everytime I cash the check), and I'm pretty comfortable most of the time. The only time I hate it is when he has me do things like go pick up his son from soccer and then get upset when everything doesn't get done in the office, and especially the pressure about his financial status that he talks to me about when he should be talking directly to his CPA or bookkeeper.

Sorry for the novel, I just wanted to know what you guys thought. Should I leave the company? Find something else? I don't know what to do.

Lana0120 · 08-15-2007, 05:59 PM

I think you're right to be concerned about this. He might be paying you now - but how long will he keep it up for? How long will it be before you're put in a situation where he says 'Can I pay you later?' Ultimately, he may end up not being able to pay you at all, even later, if things are this bad. I think you should keep your eyes open for a new job.

BornToResist · 08-15-2007, 06:01 PM

Oh my goodness.

I know someone very close to me who is in this exact position. She is the book keeper and it drives her crazy. She cannot get her boss to stop spending money. She sees him flushing the company down the toilet and can't get him to stop.

I don't know what to tell you, but if I were in your shoes (and I often suggest this to the person I know), start looking around for something else. This could be a good time where you can really search for something you really like, not just have to take a job because you need one.

Get your resume together and get to looking.

Business is business.

agent · 08-15-2007, 06:06 PM

He's such a nice guy that he has you doing 3 other peoples jobs and chauffeuring his son about and not paying you accordingly?

It doesn't matter how nice you think he is, or how sorry you are for him, it's business. And as a business man it seems like he sucks.

Get out now while you're still able to be getting your pay. Don't leave when he can no longer afford to be filling your paypack with anything more than an IOU.

Beec · 08-15-2007, 06:45 PM

I think he has a company, and part of the idea behind him having a company is paying his employees. You cannot work for nothing, can you? If you will, want to come scrub my toilets, I'll feed you lunch once a week? I'm only kidding but, this is his problem, but you need to make sure that it does not cause you problems. Begin looking for a new job, before you find out you do not have one.

Kalika · 08-15-2007, 09:41 PM

I'm really not sure why you feel guilty asking for money that you earned fair and square. I'm also not sure why you're picking up his children for him.. ?? Shouldn't he be hiring and paying for someone to do that if he can't do it himself ??

This guilt complex you have really isn't going to help you in any way. It's easy to feel bad for people that are deeply in debt until you find out that a lot of times, there are things they could have done differently to avoid getting into trouble in the first place. He's apparently not making the kind of sacrifices he needs to be making right now, and that's not your fault.

Now is the time to find another job, before you find out you worked 2 weeks and there's no paycheck coming.

CaptainPlanet · 08-16-2007, 12:52 AM

There is always the possibility he knows exactly what he is doing. He will live very, very well beyond his means while the cash flow of the business covers the cost of his debts. I would get out now if I were you. It is not at all impossible that he will declare himself bankrupt and start the same business under a family members name or something like that.

Locke2121 · 08-16-2007, 05:50 AM

He is a nice guy who is going to loose his business. I can't think of any way, other that more loans, where he can keep the business going. Better that you start looking for a new job now and have some feelers out than you're dumped on your butt in a few months.

freeindeed · 08-16-2007, 01:24 PM

I'm not so much worried that he won't pay me for my last two weeks (he has too much pride, he'd probably take out another loan to pay his employee(s) if he had to)... but you all are right about looking for another job before it just gets too ridiculous for me to do this one all by myself - he obviously is in no position to hire another employee at this time, and he's said it himself.

I think I'm more worried about leaving to go look for another job. Even though my boss is nice to me, he is VERY VERY bitter about all the other employees that left. Which, to me, is very weird. The other employees gave anywhere from 3 weeks to 3 months notice that they were leaving, and he still complains to this day that they didn't give him enough time to find someone else. To be honest, he doesn't trust many people, so I'm sure if he hired someone else it would HAVE to be by personal recommendation. And honestly, I don't have anyone that I would personally recommend this job to!

I don't know how to leave. It's almost like a relationship. After 6 years, I don't want to hurt his feelings, I don't want him to feel like he's being abandoned, especially since I'm the last one here. I know I could give him a few months notice but I know if I do that he will give me the hardest time for those few months because I've seen him to do it to the others.

I know it's ridiculous but I think my best bet at this time is when I get married (which will be early next year though). He can't be without an employee for an entire week while I'm on my honeymoon so he'll be forced to hire someone else. And maybe that'll be my chance to get out. Wow, it sounds ridiculous as I'm typing it, but I don't really see any other way, I feel stuck.

Iceman26 · 08-16-2007, 01:46 PM

The bottom line here is that you have to look out for you. If it comes down to you and his family, he is going to pick his family.

Can you blame the other employees for leaving? You took on extra responsibility and were not even compensated for it. They probably saw that this man does not know how to run a business and left.

You need to start looking. I am looking too and I hate it but we do what we have to do.

08-15-2007, 05:53 PM	#1
freeindeed Offline Bronze Member Join Date: Feb 2005 Location: Redding, CA Gender: Female Age: 28 Posts: 376	My boss is getting deeper and deeper into debt.... Hi everyone, I've been at my job for about 6 years now. It's a very small business, at its largest its had 4 employees. Over a year ago everyone left except me. They didn't leave all at once, it was over a period of a few months. But I decided to stay and stick it out. I was moved to the highest ranked position (obviously since there was no one else left) and took over many of the responsibilities that each of the employees had. We hired 1 outside employee that comes into the office 4 times a month. At that time, my boss did not give me a raise, even though my duties had increased. However I wasn't offended as I didn't know if I was even capable of doing everything he needed me to, so forgetting about the raise was a little bit of an excuse for me. Kinda like a "since he doesn't pay me as much, it won't be so bad if I screw up" sort of thing. And then I started to have to oversee the some financial aspects of his company. This is where I found out that he is about $300,000 in credit debt, and owes about $1,000,000 in loans. I know this is not my personal problem, but now that I know that, it's hard to ask for my paycheck twice a month. Even without the knowledge that he's in so much debt, it's just difficult in general for me because I'm the the messenger from the accountant to him to tell him how much he needs to deposit into the Corporate account so that I can cash my check. I feel absolutely awful when he says, "well, where can I deposit the money from?" Like I'm supposed to come up with a magical answer of where his money should come from. His CPA has told him that he needs to cut down on expenses (eating out with his family every night of the week, which is about $65-100 nightly). And their grocery bill is about $300-400 every weeks or so. But he doesn't listen. They are living beyond their means. What made me want to write this post is that I just found out today (he gave me the papers showing it) that he took out another $20,000 loan where the finance charge alone is $8,000. That's ridiculous to me. Especially because according to the bookkeeper, that money will be gone by the end of this month because of his bills. Honestly, I want to jump ship (like everyone else has - I'm sure they knew something), but my boss is a nice guy, the job is a 9-5 but since I've been here so long my boss works with me if I need a little flexibility (which helps with my other job), it's decent pay (even though I feel guilt everytime I cash the check), and I'm pretty comfortable most of the time. The only time I hate it is when he has me do things like go pick up his son from soccer and then get upset when everything doesn't get done in the office, and especially the pressure about his financial status that he talks to me about when he should be talking directly to his CPA or bookkeeper. Sorry for the novel, I just wanted to know what you guys thought. Should I leave the company? Find something else? I don't know what to do.

08-15-2007, 06:01 PM	#3
BornToResist Offline Platinum Member Join Date: Jul 2006 Gender: Female Posts: 1,844	Oh my goodness. I know someone very close to me who is in this exact position. She is the book keeper and it drives her crazy. She cannot get her boss to stop spending money. She sees him flushing the company down the toilet and can't get him to stop. I don't know what to tell you, but if I were in your shoes (and I often suggest this to the person I know), start looking around for something else. This could be a good time where you can really search for something you really like, not just have to take a job because you need one. Get your resume together and get to looking. Business is business. __________________ “Wisdom is nothing more than healed pain.” - Robert Gary Lee

08-15-2007, 06:06 PM	#4
agent Online Platinum Member Join Date: Apr 2006 Location: England Gender: Female Age: 27 Posts: 3,891	He's such a nice guy that he has you doing 3 other peoples jobs and chauffeuring his son about and not paying you accordingly? It doesn't matter how nice you think he is, or how sorry you are for him, it's business. And as a business man it seems like he sucks. Get out now while you're still able to be getting your pay. Don't leave when he can no longer afford to be filling your paypack with anything more than an IOU. __________________ "You have a right to experiment with your life. You will make mistakes. And they are right too." - Anais Nin "Come now, don't make such a funeral face. It isn't dying that's sad; it's living when you're not happy." -Octave Mirbeau "Don't be sad, don't be angry, if life deceives you! Submit to your grief; your time for joy will come, believe me." -Aleksandr Pushkin

08-15-2007, 06:45 PM	#5
Beec Offline Platinum Member Join Date: Dec 2003 Location: New York Posts: 7,556	I think he has a company, and part of the idea behind him having a company is paying his employees. You cannot work for nothing, can you? If you will, want to come scrub my toilets, I'll feed you lunch once a week? I'm only kidding but, this is his problem, but you need to make sure that it does not cause you problems. Begin looking for a new job, before you find out you do not have one. __________________ "Love is not affectionate feeling, but a steady wish for the loved person's ultimate good as far as it can be obtained." C.S. Lewis--Answers to Questions on Christianity

08-16-2007, 05:50 AM	#8
Locke2121 Offline Platinum Member Join Date: Jan 2007 Location: The South, nuff said. Gender: Male Posts: 1,661	He is a nice guy who is going to loose his business. I can't think of any way, other that more loans, where he can keep the business going. Better that you start looking for a new job now and have some feelers out than you're dumped on your butt in a few months. __________________ Blessings Be. http://www.myspace.com/locke2121 "Bald is beautiful......at least thats what I keep saying to myself!"

08-15-2007, 05:59 PM	#2
Lana0120 Offline Platinum Member Join Date: Jan 2007 Gender: Female Posts: 3,465	I think you're right to be concerned about this. He might be paying you now - but how long will he keep it up for? How long will it be before you're put in a situation where he says 'Can I pay you later?' Ultimately, he may end up not being able to pay you at all, even later, if things are this bad. I think you should keep your eyes open for a new job.

08-15-2007, 09:41 PM	#6
Kalika Offline Platinum Member Join Date: Jan 2007 Gender: Female Posts: 1,343	I'm really not sure why you feel guilty asking for money that you earned fair and square. I'm also not sure why you're picking up his children for him.. ?? Shouldn't he be hiring and paying for someone to do that if he can't do it himself ?? This guilt complex you have really isn't going to help you in any way. It's easy to feel bad for people that are deeply in debt until you find out that a lot of times, there are things they could have done differently to avoid getting into trouble in the first place. He's apparently not making the kind of sacrifices he needs to be making right now, and that's not your fault. Now is the time to find another job, before you find out you worked 2 weeks and there's no paycheck coming.

08-16-2007, 12:52 AM	#7
CaptainPlanet Offline Platinum Member Join Date: Oct 2006 Location: Australia Gender: Male Age: 26 Posts: 4,259	There is always the possibility he knows exactly what he is doing. He will live very, very well beyond his means while the cash flow of the business covers the cost of his debts. I would get out now if I were you. It is not at all impossible that he will declare himself bankrupt and start the same business under a family members name or something like that.

08-16-2007, 01:24 PM	#9
freeindeed Offline Bronze Member Join Date: Feb 2005 Location: Redding, CA Gender: Female Age: 28 Posts: 376	I'm not so much worried that he won't pay me for my last two weeks (he has too much pride, he'd probably take out another loan to pay his employee(s) if he had to)... but you all are right about looking for another job before it just gets too ridiculous for me to do this one all by myself - he obviously is in no position to hire another employee at this time, and he's said it himself. I think I'm more worried about leaving to go look for another job. Even though my boss is nice to me, he is VERY VERY bitter about all the other employees that left. Which, to me, is very weird. The other employees gave anywhere from 3 weeks to 3 months notice that they were leaving, and he still complains to this day that they didn't give him enough time to find someone else. To be honest, he doesn't trust many people, so I'm sure if he hired someone else it would HAVE to be by personal recommendation. And honestly, I don't have anyone that I would personally recommend this job to! I don't know how to leave. It's almost like a relationship. After 6 years, I don't want to hurt his feelings, I don't want him to feel like he's being abandoned, especially since I'm the last one here. I know I could give him a few months notice but I know if I do that he will give me the hardest time for those few months because I've seen him to do it to the others. I know it's ridiculous but I think my best bet at this time is when I get married (which will be early next year though). He can't be without an employee for an entire week while I'm on my honeymoon so he'll be forced to hire someone else. And maybe that'll be my chance to get out. Wow, it sounds ridiculous as I'm typing it, but I don't really see any other way, I feel stuck.

08-16-2007, 01:46 PM	#10
Iceman26 Offline Platinum Member Join Date: Nov 2004 Location: Houston Gender: Male Age: 31 Posts: 2,904	The bottom line here is that you have to look out for you. If it comes down to you and his family, he is going to pick his family. Can you blame the other employees for leaving? You took on extra responsibility and were not even compensated for it. They probably saw that this man does not know how to run a business and left. You need to start looking. I am looking too and I hate it but we do what we have to do. __________________ "Failure is simply the opportunity to begin again, this time more intelligently." "Pride only hurts. It never helps."