loving an alcoholic: long story with questions

john of portland · 01-19-2007, 05:21 PM

Hello Everyone,

I have talked to everyone I know about this so far...maybe someone else will have some insight or even get some by reading this.
I am a 41 year old man, single, had some good relationships and some messy ones. I have been friends with a woman for 5 years who has had a 10 year addiction to alcohol. When I met her she had just ended a relationship and was grieving...alcohol had played a part in the breakup. We were involved sexually briefly. Since then we have had a friendship, always with some tension about maybe being together.
She has tried some things to help her addiction but not AA or anything long term. It has hurt my heart to see someone so beautiful lose themselves in this addiction. I rescued her many times when she got out of control. I am in the rescuer enabler category for sure. She is 36, has lost a lot of jobs and moved around quite a bit. She drinks only when alone,most everyday. She loses judgement and drinks to the point of passing out. Generally she is a person of some integrity and does not cheat or steal. The only lying she does is from her denial. She is very lovely, intelligent, and creative. I know there is a lot of pain within her.
She moved out of state 6 months ago and it made me realize I had strong feelings for her. I told her but she had met someone there. It made me really jealous... she admitted she still had feelings for me.when that looked like it was ending she asked if I still wanted to be with her. At that point she had been on a 3 week drinking binge after her breakup.I had been on the phone with her constantly trying to keep her stable. She had been pregnant and had a procedure. Lost her job and her mom was mostly supporting her.She was feeling a lot for the man who left her. Guilt over losing the child. Desperation about her finances. I could see the facade had broken and she could see what was going on in her life. In spite of all this I really considered it possible between us. I look and I just see the person inside. Most friends think I am delusional and I accept that possibility. So much time was invested in our friendship...it may have been poor intimacy but it was intimacy anyway. The opportunity to accept that proposal to be with her has passed...she pretty much said accept me the way I am or leave me alone. It seemed like it was going to happen between us...years of tension finally being resolved. Neither one of us was sober...and I do not even drink. She went back with her boyfriend and they got married. All this happened in about 5 months. I dont know if she is seeking help. In the past, it seemed she wanted to be rescued...not helped...which I always jumped in to do even though it always left me terrified....thinking she may die. She is not an abusive person but gets very needy and doesnt seem to care that those who love her want her to stop this.
Do any of the women out there have anything to say about this...even if its harsh let me have it. Do you know about helplessness/rescue issues with alcoholics or specifically women alcoholics? Curiously I think I needed her much more than she needed me... she went on and got married like nothing had happened....I was wondering is she in treatment? AA? Nope, walking down the aisle. Meanwhile I am still dealing with the fallout. I have read much on codependence...it's me completely. big letters jumping out at Me saying CHEMICALLY DEPENDENT PEOPLE ARE NOT AVAILABLE FOR HEALTHY LOVING RELATIONSHIPS. My therapist says I am acting 14 instead of 41. I do see that my image of her does not correspond with reality.
Our friendship was good although there was always that thing lingering in the backgrounD " why arent you doing anything to stop drinking?" Its hurting you and everyone around you who loves you. How do we love someone who has this going on? I wanted to possess all the beauty that is inside her...to be close to her...but does that always make us an enabler if the person is addicted? Is the tough stance the only way to help someone? Is everything an alcoholic says really that distorted? A lie? Its hard to beleive those things about her. I never know what to believe.We have no contact anymore but I keep wanting to understand better...I know this is my problem and I cant and never could change her. If any of this means anything, even a few words would be appreciated. My therapist is male...I feel like I want to hear from some women on this.... Thanks..

AwdreeHpburn · 01-19-2007, 05:38 PM

Hey John!!

Welcome to ENA!! Glad you found this site. I really think you should stick around for a while. Even if you don't like what I have to say, there WILL be someone who will touch you, reach you etc. so...stick around - OK?

You said if we were to be harsh, you could take it....whilst I don't think that's REALLY true, I AM going to speak my mind anyway and hope I do so delicately.

Regardless of my woman-ness, I think were this me, when that was me...I DID want someone to rescue me or at least I thought I did. I really wanted to just have it stop.

Someone constantly hanging about talking about my issues, offering their help, enabling me by placing a pillow at my rock bottom so that I could never feel the rocks, was BAD....

I really think you hit the nail on the head when you said you needed her more than the other way around.

If it is that she stop drinking and sober up that you want, you need to leave her alone. Tough love here baby....

She needs to hit her rock bottom. And hard.

I know that for people around her - YOU - this would be even tougher to watch than her alcoholism, but she needs it.

It is my ever so humble opinion that you make yourself completely unavailable to her whilst she continues her self destructive pattern. Let her know this is unacceptable behaviour for you and having a friendship with her is much to difficult for you to bear.

End it on that note and remove yourself from her life.

You may just be one of the first people she attempts to reconnect with once she DOES sober up....

I'm sorry dude. I feel for you, I really do. But my view is the tough love approach at this point...

RayKay · 01-19-2007, 05:58 PM

You have to see that this was NEVER about you. When someone has an addiction; that addiction IS the number one love in their lives, and it will be the ONLY thing they really "know" until they end it.

The catch of course is that the ONLY one whom can break that addiction and see clearly is the person themself being READY to finally say: enough, I am NOT letting this control me anymore. And THIS takes them realizing it DOES control them, which is often the biggest hurdle.

I have a family history of alchoholism on my father's side of the family. It has really destroyed relationships, and lives. And it is scary to love and care for someone in that situation. And it is scarier to leave them to their own devices and walk away. But at this time, walking away is what you MUST do....it will be the hardest thing you do, but she needs to hit the bottom before she can come back up on her own volition.

redding500 · 01-19-2007, 06:42 PM

First off, recognize that no alcoholic (while she or he is drinking) truly loves anybody. And, while her alcoholism may have progressed most destructively in the past 10 years, she has always been an alcoholic - a recent study has even isolated the possible gene for it. While the progression for each individual varies, the outcome is the same (if the alcoholic keeps drinking). It's a deadly disease. Even if she stops drinking she'll always be an alcoholic, which is why alcoholics are "recovering" never "recovered." It's good you've identified your own co-dependency in this - I would also strongly recommend Al-Anon meetings, as you will find an enormous amount of support and information about the disease.

**Hope75** · 01-19-2007, 07:01 PM

Hi There and Welcome to Enotalone.

Yep- you got it. To an addict or an alcoholic, that drink or drug IS their boyfriend/girlfriend. It's a stormy relationship, but in the end they always got back to it.

I was in love and engaged to a violent alcoholic for 5 years. My next boyfriend after him whom I dated for 2 years was an alcoholic- a very clever and functional one, but none-the-less an alcoholic. All four of my grandparents were alcoholics. I have also attended several addictions centers as a student and heard addicts and alcoholics talk about their addictions and how it took over their lives, and I watched it first hand when it took over my fiance's life.

The truth is that drink will ALWAYS be # 1... until and unless she wants to make a change, and that takes alot of commitment and hard work- it is a process that she will go through and fight every day. No matter what she says to the contrary--An addict or an alcoholic is an addict or alcoholic for life- even when they have been sober for 30 years they are still an addict. If she lies for the drink and hides from friends and family to drink, has lost jobs and relationships because of it you can bet it's a serious problem.

If you are with her, you will sink. It is AGONY to watch someone you love throw their lives down the toilet for an addiction like this. They will cheat, lie and steal to keep up their addiction... they know no other way, and it really is that bad- especially for an alcoholic, to whom detoxing in life threatening and very painful.

You can't help her. That is the worst part of all. No one can help her, unless and until she is ready to help herself and take that initiative, and made a life altering choice that she will have to fight and stick with every day of her life from now until the day she dies. If she wants to stop drinking she is going to need medical assistance to get her through the detox period. It can kill her. Then she is going to need to change her lifestyle, possibly who she hangs out with and where.... it's a long and arduious process.

13 years later and my ex is still losing his battle with alcohol. It's so devestating. My advice to you is to get away from it. Unless she has made some positive signs and actions that she wants to change in the form of signing up and checking in for acute detox and therapy, it won't happen. Physically she will not be able to take the withdrawal symptoms- she cannot stop on her on. And unless she had agreed to this and is taking steps to put it into action now, she is just not there yet. And many people sadly never get there.

And if you get involved with her like this you are grabbing on to a sinking ship and going down with it.

Trust me when I say I know what I am talking about- and so do you when you said this:

Quote:

CHEMICALLY DEPENDENT PEOPLE ARE NOT AVAILABLE FOR HEALTHY LOVING RELATIONSHIPS

Right now she has a boyfriend and it's the drink.

Now you have to read your statement over and believe it. And follow it.

robowarrior · 01-19-2007, 07:17 PM

You might as well invite an elephant into your house, it would do less damage to the house and the relationship then a person who's addicted to alcohol will do. A person who is addicted to alcohol shouldn't be in a relationship, but in a rehab clinic. Clearly someone with that kind of illness isn't ready for anything in life.

john of portland · 01-19-2007, 09:51 PM

Oh my God!

You people are incredible!!! You are making me cry... I am serious...tears are coming down. Where did you people come from? Everything you all said was amazing. I am so grateful to you.... what was posted so far...I am grateful for each and every word. Thank you for your time to write those things ....I am so glad I stumbled on this website...I'm glad to be here....

**Hope75** · 01-19-2007, 11:02 PM

Hi John,

I am glad that you have found support here. This is a great community and many people from all walks of life with all different experiences can offer advice. It really is a wonderful site.

I'm glad that some of the words you read gave you pause for thought. It is VERY difficult to accept and understand that you cannot help a person in that situation. We, by virtue of being human beings, want to be able to help and save others when they are sick or in need... but this is one of those things that she got herself into, and truely, only her own dedication and willpower is going to get her out of.

I struggled with that soooo much when I was with my ex. I tried EVERYTHING... bargaining, begging, demanding, crying... he just wasn't ready to hear it. And it really does have to be all on them- because they must work their program every day to survive without booze.

I eventually had to let go of my sinking ship.... are you comfortable thinking about letting go of yours?

**Hope75** · 01-19-2007, 11:04 PM

Someone above mentioned Al Anon meetings.

I would highly recommend you check one out. They are designed and run by people who are in love with alcoholics, and they offer alot of support that no one else can--- unless they have actually been there.

john of portland · 01-20-2007, 12:29 AM

Thank you Hope, for following up...
I have already read sme of the Alanon literature and plan on going to a meeting.... somehow, though, these first hand accounts from real people here are so much more helpful than any book....I feel much more present.
I think my sinking ship realized this was unhealthy before I did....anyway she is now happily? married...havent heard anything in 2 months. I really thing I have the guts not to respond anymore even if another crisis comes along. I have exhausted my seemingly limitless caretaking reserves. Nevertheless, energetically it still has its hooks in me. I never seem to get the message that caretaking doesnt pay me back very well if at all. It is a strongly ingrained behavior in me. Thanks for your candor in sharing your personal experience..

01-19-2007, 05:21 PM	#1
john of portland Offline Member Join Date: Jan 2007 Posts: 16	loving an alcoholic: long story with questions Hello Everyone, I have talked to everyone I know about this so far...maybe someone else will have some insight or even get some by reading this. I am a 41 year old man, single, had some good relationships and some messy ones. I have been friends with a woman for 5 years who has had a 10 year addiction to alcohol. When I met her she had just ended a relationship and was grieving...alcohol had played a part in the breakup. We were involved sexually briefly. Since then we have had a friendship, always with some tension about maybe being together. She has tried some things to help her addiction but not AA or anything long term. It has hurt my heart to see someone so beautiful lose themselves in this addiction. I rescued her many times when she got out of control. I am in the rescuer enabler category for sure. She is 36, has lost a lot of jobs and moved around quite a bit. She drinks only when alone,most everyday. She loses judgement and drinks to the point of passing out. Generally she is a person of some integrity and does not cheat or steal. The only lying she does is from her denial. She is very lovely, intelligent, and creative. I know there is a lot of pain within her. She moved out of state 6 months ago and it made me realize I had strong feelings for her. I told her but she had met someone there. It made me really jealous... she admitted she still had feelings for me.when that looked like it was ending she asked if I still wanted to be with her. At that point she had been on a 3 week drinking binge after her breakup.I had been on the phone with her constantly trying to keep her stable. She had been pregnant and had a procedure. Lost her job and her mom was mostly supporting her.She was feeling a lot for the man who left her. Guilt over losing the child. Desperation about her finances. I could see the facade had broken and she could see what was going on in her life. In spite of all this I really considered it possible between us. I look and I just see the person inside. Most friends think I am delusional and I accept that possibility. So much time was invested in our friendship...it may have been poor intimacy but it was intimacy anyway. The opportunity to accept that proposal to be with her has passed...she pretty much said accept me the way I am or leave me alone. It seemed like it was going to happen between us...years of tension finally being resolved. Neither one of us was sober...and I do not even drink. She went back with her boyfriend and they got married. All this happened in about 5 months. I dont know if she is seeking help. In the past, it seemed she wanted to be rescued...not helped...which I always jumped in to do even though it always left me terrified....thinking she may die. She is not an abusive person but gets very needy and doesnt seem to care that those who love her want her to stop this. Do any of the women out there have anything to say about this...even if its harsh let me have it. Do you know about helplessness/rescue issues with alcoholics or specifically women alcoholics? Curiously I think I needed her much more than she needed me... she went on and got married like nothing had happened....I was wondering is she in treatment? AA? Nope, walking down the aisle. Meanwhile I am still dealing with the fallout. I have read much on codependence...it's me completely. big letters jumping out at Me saying CHEMICALLY DEPENDENT PEOPLE ARE NOT AVAILABLE FOR HEALTHY LOVING RELATIONSHIPS. My therapist says I am acting 14 instead of 41. I do see that my image of her does not correspond with reality. Our friendship was good although there was always that thing lingering in the backgrounD " why arent you doing anything to stop drinking?" Its hurting you and everyone around you who loves you. How do we love someone who has this going on? I wanted to possess all the beauty that is inside her...to be close to her...but does that always make us an enabler if the person is addicted? Is the tough stance the only way to help someone? Is everything an alcoholic says really that distorted? A lie? Its hard to beleive those things about her. I never know what to believe.We have no contact anymore but I keep wanting to understand better...I know this is my problem and I cant and never could change her. If any of this means anything, even a few words would be appreciated. My therapist is male...I feel like I want to hear from some women on this.... Thanks..

01-19-2007, 05:38 PM	#2
AwdreeHpburn Offline Platinum Member Join Date: Feb 2006 Location: Tiffany's Gender: Female Age: 37 Posts: 4,637	Hey John!! Welcome to ENA!! Glad you found this site. I really think you should stick around for a while. Even if you don't like what I have to say, there WILL be someone who will touch you, reach you etc. so...stick around - OK? You said if we were to be harsh, you could take it....whilst I don't think that's REALLY true, I AM going to speak my mind anyway and hope I do so delicately. Regardless of my woman-ness, I think were this me, when that was me...I DID want someone to rescue me or at least I thought I did. I really wanted to just have it stop. Someone constantly hanging about talking about my issues, offering their help, enabling me by placing a pillow at my rock bottom so that I could never feel the rocks, was BAD.... I really think you hit the nail on the head when you said you needed her more than the other way around. If it is that she stop drinking and sober up that you want, you need to leave her alone. Tough love here baby.... She needs to hit her rock bottom. And hard. I know that for people around her - YOU - this would be even tougher to watch than her alcoholism, but she needs it. It is my ever so humble opinion that you make yourself completely unavailable to her whilst she continues her self destructive pattern. Let her know this is unacceptable behaviour for you and having a friendship with her is much to difficult for you to bear. End it on that note and remove yourself from her life. You may just be one of the first people she attempts to reconnect with once she DOES sober up.... I'm sorry dude. I feel for you, I really do. But my view is the tough love approach at this point... __________________ What i really meant to say, is that I'm sorry for the way I am......

01-19-2007, 05:58 PM	#3
RayKay Offline Platinum Member Join Date: May 2004 Location: Middle of Canada Gender: Female Age: 30 Posts: 13,270	You have to see that this was NEVER about you. When someone has an addiction; that addiction IS the number one love in their lives, and it will be the ONLY thing they really "know" until they end it. The catch of course is that the ONLY one whom can break that addiction and see clearly is the person themself being READY to finally say: enough, I am NOT letting this control me anymore. And THIS takes them realizing it DOES control them, which is often the biggest hurdle. I have a family history of alchoholism on my father's side of the family. It has really destroyed relationships, and lives. And it is scary to love and care for someone in that situation. And it is scarier to leave them to their own devices and walk away. But at this time, walking away is what you MUST do....it will be the hardest thing you do, but she needs to hit the bottom before she can come back up on her own volition. __________________ [FONT=Comic Sans MS][COLOR=darkolivegreen][B]<--- [COLOR=sienna]Carbun the Super-Bunny[/COLOR][/B][/COLOR][/FONT] [B][FONT=Comic Sans MS][COLOR=#556b2f][/COLOR][/FONT][/B] [FONT=Comic Sans MS][COLOR=darkolivegreen][B]At the end of the day, how you imprinted on someones life and heart is the only true mark any of us leave on this earth and is what we are most proud of... [/B][/COLOR][/FONT][I][SIZE=1]- My Biggest Hero and Mentor: My Mum.[/SIZE][/I] [FONT=Comic Sans MS][COLOR=orange][B]Il faut d'abord durer [/B][/COLOR][/FONT][I][SIZE=1]- Ernest Hemingway[/SIZE][/I]

01-19-2007, 09:51 PM	#7
john of portland Offline Member Join Date: Jan 2007 Posts: 16	You are incredible Oh my God! You people are incredible!!! You are making me cry... I am serious...tears are coming down. Where did you people come from? Everything you all said was amazing. I am so grateful to you.... what was posted so far...I am grateful for each and every word. Thank you for your time to write those things ....I am so glad I stumbled on this website...I'm glad to be here....

01-19-2007, 11:02 PM	#8
Hope75 Offline Super Moderator Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: kitteh ville Gender: Female Age: 33 Posts: 12,503	Hi John, I am glad that you have found support here. This is a great community and many people from all walks of life with all different experiences can offer advice. It really is a wonderful site. I'm glad that some of the words you read gave you pause for thought. It is VERY difficult to accept and understand that you cannot help a person in that situation. We, by virtue of being human beings, want to be able to help and save others when they are sick or in need... but this is one of those things that she got herself into, and truely, only her own dedication and willpower is going to get her out of. I struggled with that soooo much when I was with my ex. I tried EVERYTHING... bargaining, begging, demanding, crying... he just wasn't ready to hear it. And it really does have to be all on them- because they must work their program every day to survive without booze. I eventually had to let go of my sinking ship.... are you comfortable thinking about letting go of yours? __________________ Muffin cats need love too. Please refer to the forum rules before posting: http://www.enotalone.com/forum/forum-rules.php Mama to a beautiful baby girl born 6-25-09. :)

01-19-2007, 06:42 PM	#4
redding500 Offline Member Join Date: May 2006 Posts: 58	First off, recognize that no alcoholic (while she or he is drinking) truly loves anybody. And, while her alcoholism may have progressed most destructively in the past 10 years, she has always been an alcoholic - a recent study has even isolated the possible gene for it. While the progression for each individual varies, the outcome is the same (if the alcoholic keeps drinking). It's a deadly disease. Even if she stops drinking she'll always be an alcoholic, which is why alcoholics are "recovering" never "recovered." It's good you've identified your own co-dependency in this - I would also strongly recommend Al-Anon meetings, as you will find an enormous amount of support and information about the disease.

01-19-2007, 07:17 PM	#6
robowarrior Offline Join Date: Mar 2006 Location: There where a man is happy. Posts: 1,964	You might as well invite an elephant into your house, it would do less damage to the house and the relationship then a person who's addicted to alcohol will do. A person who is addicted to alcohol shouldn't be in a relationship, but in a rehab clinic. Clearly someone with that kind of illness isn't ready for anything in life.

01-19-2007, 11:04 PM	#9
Hope75 Offline Super Moderator Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: kitteh ville Gender: Female Age: 33 Posts: 12,503	Someone above mentioned Al Anon meetings. I would highly recommend you check one out. They are designed and run by people who are in love with alcoholics, and they offer alot of support that no one else can--- unless they have actually been there. __________________ Muffin cats need love too. Please refer to the forum rules before posting: http://www.enotalone.com/forum/forum-rules.php Mama to a beautiful baby girl born 6-25-09. :)

01-20-2007, 12:29 AM	#10
john of portland Offline Member Join Date: Jan 2007 Posts: 16	Thank you Hope, for following up... I have already read sme of the Alanon literature and plan on going to a meeting.... somehow, though, these first hand accounts from real people here are so much more helpful than any book....I feel much more present. I think my sinking ship realized this was unhealthy before I did....anyway she is now happily? married...havent heard anything in 2 months. I really thing I have the guts not to respond anymore even if another crisis comes along. I have exhausted my seemingly limitless caretaking reserves. Nevertheless, energetically it still has its hooks in me. I never seem to get the message that caretaking doesnt pay me back very well if at all. It is a strongly ingrained behavior in me. Thanks for your candor in sharing your personal experience..