Dilemma - value of parents vs breaking out

[tripledigit]

I hope that I can get some advice. I have been placed in a difficult situation and not sure what I should do, and emotionally need some help as well. Sorry if this might be a little long, but I just want to get it off my chest and try to understand what I am feeling.
The situation is that I am getting married at the end of the year and dying to move out with my fiance after getting married, but worried about the implications with my parents.
Growing up, I had a good relationship with my parents, or what I thought was good. I was an A's student, went to uni, always dutiful, have a good job now, never dealt in drugs or anything like that. I never had confrontations with my parents. They hold traditional Asian values and openly critical of me for shallow things, like being short or fat. People have told me that I am not fat, but my parents will forever say things like that. Whilst hurtful to me, I chose to ignore it.
Another thing that was always an issue was that they always argued. I was always scared and sad when they argued and would try to block it out by listening to music or reading.
Other than that, my childhood was quite happy. I knew that my parents loved me and would do what they could for me. They came to Australia in their 20s and have kept to their old beliefs and values. To them, there is nothing wrong with criticising their daughter, that was the way they've been brought up and probably how their parents were with them. They are not open to new ideas or accepting of things which they are not used to.
I could possibly have lived with that, but then about a decade ago, they got into gambling and ended up losing a lot of money. We used to be quite comfortable financially but over the last few years, they lost the equity in both houses they owned, to the point where they had to constantly ask me to pay for their mortgage payments. I gave them several chances, helping them consolidate credit card debts to reduce the interest rate payable (I needed to be their guarantor), giving them money to pay off amounts they owed. Each time, they promised they would not gamble anymore. Each time, I was bitterly disappointed. I am now kicking myself, because by helping them consolidate their credit card debts into their mortgage, they went out and racked up their credit card bill again. I had taken their credit card but my mum begged me to have it back because she said my dad felt shame that his daughter was controlling his affairs. I wanted to destroy it but felt guilty and gave it back to them, trusting that they would amend their ways and only use it to pay for bills or whatever was needed. Also my mum sometimes "stole" my bank card and used the money in my account (I had given them the pin number when I was younger and hadn't changed it). Each time, her intention was to "borrow" it and she hoped to win money and then pay me back without me knowing my card had been stolen. I feel used, and betrayed, also saddened by what they have become. In a way, I sometimes feel like I no longer know them, my parents of my childhood could not have done something like that.
Over the last few years, I have lived in constant fear about my parents' gambling. I saved money, for a "rainy day" in case they desperately needed it one day. When they asked me for help the last few times, I tried to resist, but got the guilt trip and I thought I couldn't live with myself if I refused to help them and then sometime drastic happened (like I've heard of people committing suicide over gambling or borrowing money from the mafia). So I always helped them.
Their quarrels increased, they were always worrying about money and I was so sick of hearing them go on and on about it all the time. They hardly had enough to live on, let alone pay for credit card and mortgage. Plus, they were getting on in age and unable to find a job.
Last year, I agreed (at their suggestion) that I would buy a bigger house so that we could all live together. I did not have a deposit for a house, so they would sell their house and give/lend me the equity left (not much). The plan was for me to pay for the mortgage, they would pay the bills and no one would have to worry so much about finances. For me, it made sense at the time, because I was sick of worrying about their finances all the time and thought that this would be the solution. I was going steady with my fiance and knew we were getting married soon, so I knew that by doing this, I was committing myself to living with my parents after marriage. I discussed this with him and whilst both not really happy with the idea, at least accepting of it. It seemed better than to move out and then having to worry about my parents being chucked on the streets or living in bad circumstances or them knocking on our door for financial aid.
Anyway, I could possibly have accepted living with my parents if it meant they no longer gambled, or quarrelled or give me grief about their worries. And I made it clear to my parents that a condition of moving was that my brothers would have to move out. My brothers and I do not get along, we were quite close as kids, but growing up, just took on different paths in life. One had drug issues, is now working but always broke for some reason or other. The other is unemployed and likely to be that way for a while. Both are in their early-mid 20's. My mum said she could not kick them out, but that even if they stayed, they would pay rent, clean the house (they were very messy in the old house), and that they would move out as soon as they could. I said ok, only on teh condition that they quickly looked to move out.
Ok, so we moved houses and then I really started to get frustrated. It was like all the unknown frustruations and anger I have ever had (i'm 2 are now suddenly coming out. My fiance proposed and that probably had a lot to do with my change of emotion as well. All of a sudden, I could no longer bear to be in the same house as my parents or brothers, especially if it is to be long term, perhaps even the rest of my life. Contrary to what they said, my parents still argue, still gamble (not that they have much to gamble with). My brothers do not pay rent, one smokes in his room sometimes (until I tell him off), and neither look likely to move out anytime soon. Both have girlfriends coming over all the time. I think my mum spoils them too much and should be more harsh towards them. She does all the cooking, cleaning and washing for them. They have never done anything and it's now too late to change that.
I started feeling used, and resentment. I bitterly regret buying the house. I want to start over a new, happy life with my fiance without the burden of my family. I want my own house and privacy, and to know I can come home to a peaceful and clean environment. I don't want to have to clean up after my brothers in the kitchen. When I told my dad my resentment, he said something like I think I am too good for the family now just because I have a good job and don't care about them anymore. He said that him and my mum don't get to do much whereas I am always going out for dinners with friends and go shopping etc so why am I complaining. I am very angry that he can even think to bring this up. Why can't I go out with friends to destress, and spend my own money? I'm not the one who gambled away all my money so have to stay home and not be able to do things!
Anyway, eventually I couldn't stand it anymore, and told my mum I am going to move out after getting married. Her choices are for me to sell the house, me pay her back whatever she had lent me for the deposit and then we each do our own thing. Alternatively, I said that I could buy another place and let them stay in that house, but they will have to pay half the mortgage. That will still be a pressure on me and my fiance and restricts us in the type of house we can buy for ourselves since we have to pay for 1.5 mortgages. Not only that, but there is always the fear that my parents/brothers will not live up to their end of the bargain and if they can't meet their payment, that means we will pay for 2 mortgages. However, even if we sell the house, regardless of what happens, my parents will still need some financial support. I am so so confused as to what to do. The easy practical solution is to stay put and live with them but I just feel such resentment and why I have to bear the burden for all of them. If we move out, I'm worried about the effect this will have on my relationship with my parents. Family is very very importajnt to me, and I don't want them to hate me for thinking I am kicking them out. I know they have not been teh best over the last few years, but then I think of what they have done for me before they got into gambling and that they probably do mean well but they haven't been very smart by it all. Plus, I am very scared that if something bad happens to them then I don't want to not have made peace with them or feel guilt about treating them badly. Yet, I know the more I live with them, the more resentment and anger I will feel.

What should I do!! I think I know that I should move out, but I am scared about the ramifications this will have. Please, any advice or objective insight into this will be very welcome.

[Lunabelle]

Dear, I am so sorry. You are truly in a tough spot.

I'm sorry to be telling you what I suspect you already know. Your marriage will not, repeat not, survive your parents.

I cannot adequately relate to the cultural issues you mention. However, in just about any culture, the children equally share the support of older parents. As far as I can see, you should be providing AT MOST one third of the basics for them (housing & food). Those brothers must assume their share of that responsibility too.

I can see how the whole family is not only using you, but abusing you and forcing your hand. It is disgusting, their treatment of you. They are adults, please allow them the opportunity to behave as such. Why should they step up, when you seem willing and eager to "do your duty" and let them ruin your whole life. Don't you deserve a life that you control, that brings happiness to YOU?

What you need to do is the ol' tough love approach. Get tough, cut the strings, especially the financial ones. Your life depends on it. You will never be happy until you have settled this. You will feel guilty -- that appears to be part and parcel of your cultural background. You will need therapy to deal with those guilt feelings.

Do you intend to carry this entire load your whole life? When will it end? For your own sake, for your upcoming marriage's sake, stop this nonsense now.

Do the adult thing, do the right thing. Stand up for yourself, stop LETTING them lie and take advantage of you. It will be the most difficult thing you do in your life.

I foresee a life time of heartache if you don't bite the bullet and just do it now.

Sell the properties, get out now. Don't wait.

You may want to be sure your fiance is willing to see you through this battle. It won't be solved overnight. Allowing other adults the privilege of growing up and becoming personally responsible is a fairly long, drawn-out process. There will be fits and starts and backward steps. They will make mistakes, and they will come to you to solve them. You must resist this at all cost.

Cancel the credit card and any other obligations you assume on their behalf. Do it now.

The fact that you posted all this here tells me you are getting ready to approach this problem differently. You need to write down your plan for dealing with it, or you may find yourself reverting to the old methods which obviously are not working for anyone in your family. You need to be clear in your head what you are doing, and why, and stick to that plan. You can do it, crazier stuff has been done!

You seem like a "together" lady and you sure as heck don't deserve this treatment. Your fiance is one heck of a guy to even be willing to step in here. Of course he may not completely understand what is happening.

Keep posting here. Others may have experience doing this that can benefit you. You might consider adding some blank lines to your posts to make them easier for others to read.

[tripledigit]

Thank you for your advice. I think I know what to do, but getting the courage to do it is the really hard bit.

I have tried to make them understand many times why I need to get away from them, and it is hard, because I don't want to hurt their feelings. I basically hit a brick wall because they are completely closed to the feelings I describe.

When I say I want freedom and privacy, my mum asks why I don't think I have that since I can come and go as I please and I have the big master bedroom with the TV and ensuite.

When I say it is very normal for me to want to move out and that all my friends do it after getting married, she says that I have lost family feelings. She says she was sad she couldn't look after and live with her parents (who were in Vietnam and couldn't be sponsored over) when she got married. So implicitly expecting me to feel the same way and blaming me for not doing that, even though we are now in a different generation and country. When I say I don't want my brothers to live with me after marriage, she says I am being harsh cos where else can they go? And that I am trying to breach the family up. She can't accept that when I get married, my husband and future kids ARE my family, and whilst parents and brothers are important, I can't be around forever.

When I say I need to get away from them because they worry me and stress me out too much, she says, "yes, now that you can look after yourself, you don't care about us". And then she cries and says that she knows they have been wrong and that she will stop gambling and that she wanted to do best for us, and then makes me feel all guilty again.

Anyway, I need to learn to be very strict in my approach and try to overcome all these negative feelings. Getting married and organising one's own personal life is hard enough without having to worry about other people's lives...

[Lunabelle]

Originally Posted by tripledigit

Getting married and organising one's own personal life is hard enough without having to worry about other people's lives...

You seem like a very mature person, quite independent with very appropriate, "normal" feelings. I would be proud to have you for a daughter.

You need to look after yourself. Please try hard to become your own best friend. Be very careful about those secret little voices in your head that make you feel bad.

I am so sorry your family is doing this to you. They are too wrapped up in it to realize they are ruining what little love you all share. This is a very painful situation. Having said that, know that many, many people all over the world have had to take on this role in the family. Know that it is possible some memebers of your family will never be able to forgive you. Frankly I don't see what a huge loss that would be for you!

Digit -- you do not owe these people anything. Their thinking is distorted. Your mother's issues and feelings about her own parents are just that -- hers not yours. When your mother gave birth to you, she entitled you to a life of your own as a fully mature independent adult.

I have plenty of experience dealing with verbal abuse, including this twisted logic you are getting. Know that you will never "win" when dealing with this type of person. They will always manipulate whatever you say to suit their needs. The very best thing you can do, at least for now, is stay away from these people. No contact. Only what is absolutely necessary. Do not be available for their verbal vomit. Just walk away. Turn on music. Tell them you don't have time for their nonsense.

The next thing you need to do, is learn that you cannot control what they say or do. You can only control your reaction to what they say or do. And people who are not adults, who do not accept responsibility for themselves, these people will do literally anything to avoid having to face the reality of their life. You can protect yourself if you can learn not to internalize the things they say. You can't control what they say or do. You can only protect yourself from it. Decide now how you will react next time. Will you let it cut you to the core? Or will you see if for what it is, controlling, manipulating, disrespectful, rude. Think of water off a duck's back. Let that water flow off you, or it will drown you!

This is going to be very tough, and it might actually be easier if you are able to physically distance yourself from your family, at least temporarily. You will have to tell them when you are available: "I will see you at 5pm for dinner on Wednesday. We can talk then." Then go, see them, listen, eat, then kiss them goodbye, say I love you and WALK AWAY. DO NOT hand them money. DO NOT solve their problems. Do not stay more than one hour.

They will whine and moan and weep, but again, that really is not your problem here. Steel yourself for their response to your new method of approaching this problem. They will get temporarily worse in their neediness and this is a natural response. There will be some period of adjustment for everyone involved.

There is nothing wrong with wanting a life of your own! Don't feel guilty for that. What's amazing is how you came out of such a dysfunctional family! Is it good you see these dynamics and you can choose to avoid them in your own new family that you are now trying to create.

I wish you the best of luck, send you a big hug too because I think you need it even though I'm not usually that huggy-kissy type!

Above all else, stop financially supporting those good-for-nothing brothers. Pressure them to support your parents, and particularly instruct the parents that they now need to go to their darling boys for their handouts.

Good luck! Keep posting!