Wife wants to divorce - unsure what to do...

Greetings to all ~

Recently, my wife informed me that she just doesn't want to be married anymore. She says there are things about me that just can't change. She will not specify them so I am lost. I do not want a divorce. We have both been married twice before. We have now been together 12 years and have two kids, ages 11 and 9. Yes, one child was born just over a year after we were married. What I want is advise on how to salvage things, but at the same time, how to do the right things. I want to protect myself and my kids.

We had good jobs and amassed the debt to match it. We had money to spare each month. We both lost our jobs in the last two years and struggled for a while finding new jobs. Now we have them, but struggle every month to pay our bills. Our income is less than before and it takes every penny just to pay the monthly bills, not to mention the back-payment where we are a little behind. No, not seriously behind. At most, one month on a few things. The money issue and the constant credito phone calls take a strong toll on my wife.

We've had our share of fights and most is about her son/my step-son. He is another story, although he and I get along fine now. We had years of struggle. He controls and manipulates her to no end. He is 16 now.

If you lined up the who-does-what with the kids, I do just as much if not more for them. I get them up, I get them fed, I get them dressed, I give them meds, I make their lunches, I help with homework, I get them in the tub, and I put them to bed. I am a very loving and affectionate dad. Until this year and my new job that is further away, I took them to school. Now, she does that job.

I think my wife has lost respect for me due to the financial side and has fallen out of love. A wise friend told me that marriage is only a matter of love and esteem. It makes a lot of sense. I know relationships over time fall in and out of love. That is normal and the honeymoon cannot be sustained forever. I think we have been through that a few times.

I have advised we go to counseling. She doesn't want to do that. Again, I understand that once people feel they can no longer hold that level of love and esteem, they see no ability to get it back. Any thoughts of counseling seem useless. Has anyone had any real success using them? One statistic I read said that a high percentage of couples who go to counseling still get divorced.

So, any thoughts of what is next, how do I get her to seek help with me, or what I should or should not do legally? She hasn't moved out and won't for some time. We have time to work on things but for now, she doesn't want to and is determined to get a divorce in a six months. She wants to wait until the kids are out of school in the summer.

I believe we can get through this but am not sure how to pursue it. I don't want to push but I don't want to let the chips fall where they may either.

The truth be told, she has thought of divorcing a few times over the last five years, but things would heal. It was never taken to this extreme. Is this just a normal relationship or is it destined to fail? I really love my wife and cherish my kids. The thought of loosing any of them scares me to death.

Sorry this was so long.

She says there are things about me that just can't change. She will not specify them so I am lost.

One of the first things you need is for her to tell you exactly what you are doing or not doing. Saying there are "things" and not telling you is unfair. You are not a mind-reader. Tell her if she ever loved you... she would let you know. So that you can begin to process this and understand it.

Second... Divorce is a process. She's said she wanted divorce a few times over the past few years? What would trigger these episodes? What types of arguments. The reason I am saying this is ....some of the very reasons I left my X would come up during those times I brought out the big guns and said.."D"..and he didn't HEAR me. For some reason people feel as if they are hit by a 2x4 and that its coming out of the blue when they finally get hit. When in actuality if they think about it...it was there all along. They ignored it. Brushed it aside or didn't hear it.

Why don't you find a counselor for yourself. And start going for you... maybe they can give you some ideas on how to get her to seek counseling together.

Financial struggles can put a strain to a relationship. If you look up the stats I'm sure that you'll see that its the biggest reason people argue and get divorced.

Secondly, a 16 year old teen age son can put the strain on even a saint. Its a time of push/pull for them. They are trying to break and act like adults yet they are still children. I don't know what the answer to this one is.. except a UNITED FRONT.

You mentioned that she's used the "D" word a few times in the past... what makes this time any different from the rest??

Hang in there... breathe... take care of yourself. Get enough to eat and get enough sleep. You'll need it. Try not to rise to the bait and get angry. Argueing and Anger will not work to your favor. Cool and clear headed.

By the way... Welcome to ENOT. Post as much as you like and need to. You are not alone.

Make sure she realises that if she does sue for divorce you will fight for at least joint legal and physical custody of the kids. They should be your priority at the moment and they will need you as much in their lives after a divorce as they do now.

It is good to try and save the marriage if that is what you want - but don't fall into the trap of letting her have her way over everything in an attempt to win her back. It won't work and you and your kids will suffer as a result. She should be aware of all the implications of a divorce, not be proceeding under the assumption that everything she wants will necessarily happen. That does not mean you have to be nasty or aggressive - it just means that you make her aware of the reality of what will happen if she proceeds with separation and divorce.

Once she does realise that, she may be more open to counselling and the idea of making things work for everyone's benefit.

Thanks for your reply. A little background at this point may help. My wife's family members are all impulsive people. They say whatever they feel, especially with each other, and blow up worse than ever. Once it is out of their system, they are back to being family again in a few days. I've heard them dog-cuss each other with f'ing this and f'ing that. Unbelievable!

So, when my wife and I have had some arguments in the past, she finds it easy to say, "well them, let's just get a divorce." That was the extent of it in the past. It was said in the heat of an argument. It's been said many times but we always make up. I have asked her repeatedly to not use that as an option.

I am taking care of myself but my nerves are shot. If I had to gess (because she will say that she's told me many times) what problems she has with me, they would be

1. That I am "too" private - family business and finances are kept within the family.

2. We are sexually incompatable (although we have great sex). She says it always hurts afterward, yet she is always pleased during (I'm trying to say this delicately). We are in our mid forties and probably have sex four or five times a week. Incompatable?

3. She says I am too hard on the kids. I have always kept the bar raised high and set a high expectation. The kids, in turn, have always achieved it. They almost always make straight A's, are active in school and church, and are lovable kids. I am a VERY attentive dad. We do the homework togehter, and the projects, and I attend the school activities. I make it a point to spend time with them every day. I know the rule about loving more than disciplining. I'm not making excuses, I'm just saying that my methods and hers are obviously different. I believe here that she would let happen whatever happens with the kids in school. I'll go more into that if asked.

4. She has mentioned several times that we should file bankruptcy. I don't agree. First, we always have the option to get out of some immediate debt. We could sell our vehicles and chop over a grand a month off our bills. We could our house although I believe that would be a mistake because new houseing costs would be greater. Again, she's looking for the easy out.

People tell us that we do more together than any couple they know. I think she has seen the easy life that someone we know has and thinks walking away from her problems will make for a better life. To me, going through these problems from time to time are just normal life issues. Anyone could lose their job. (The company I worked for went out of business and her's merged with another. I found work right away but she took six months.) We could have had any number of other issues. People deal with them.

I have asked her to get a medical evaluation. I believe she is either going through a mid-life crisis or is pre-menopausal. Again, not trying to pass judgment or blame, just exhausting all answers.

Thanks DN, good advise. I read somewhere that joint custody makes a lot of people rethink divorce. Yes, at this point, she has stated how she wants the world to be and it "appears" to be her choice. I can basically have the house and almost all possessions, she just wants some furniture and the kids. I didn't think it was the right time to argue so I didn't say anything.

But today, just in a quiet conversation, I let her know that she couldn't just leave with the kids. I have every right to them as well. She believes a woman only loses custody if she is an unfit mother. I know otherwise. Uniquely, I helped a friend do a lot of researc h on the subject not long ago. I didn't know I'd need it myself!

I only said this to jar her perfect world mentality and let her know it wasn't going to all be her way. We didn't have a fight about it, but I have quietly planted the seed.

Just for information purposes, I have found out that one spouse can file a legal document that prevents the other from leaving with the kids. It's like a temporary custody order. I believe one party has to file for divorce first though.

OK so now your fighting a mental war in which EVERYONE loses.You've planted the seed of war for her by bringing up the the children and by using them to stop her leaving and that is a slippery slope to a fast ending where no one wins.I f she wants to leave with them, believe me.. SHE WILL and you WILL lose all of them if you proceed to use the kids.

You need to remain friends at all costs for all your sakes. Marriage is hard work but communication is the key. You have lost the ability to talk as friends. Stop this right now or you will end up exactly where you do not want to be.

Instead talk, talk and keep talking and talk. Talk yourselves out of this mental war before the damage is done, to you, her and more importantly the CHILDREN.

First, I am so sorry you are going through this.. just keep in mind with her staying in the house a lot can happen in six months. Even tho its hard, be patient. You will learn much more about why she feels this way.

I need to tell you.. counceling has really helped me. It wasnt marriage counceling, it was just for me. But it did help and even changed the way I handled my problems. Dont be so quick to think it wont help. I would be exploring EVERY option to save my marriage.

Thanks for the replies and Bethany, I think I mistated my case for you. I was never using the kids. I was only letting her know that marriage may be one problem but divorce would present another set of problems. She couldn't just walk away from here and everything would be perfect. It would ultimately be a joint decision. We are talking just fine and strangely enough, carrying on like normal. We share the house and family. We talked about dinner tonight. We are affectionate in bed, but there is an edge to it right now. She says she loves me but is just not sure. I think time will help most of all, but I have to calm my nerves. Instead of creating arguments with her, I vent here. Is that OK?

1. That I am "too" private - family business and finances are kept within the family

-There is nothing wrong in that. I'll take a wild guess here. But you want to keep your financial difficulties to yourself and she needs to vent... maybe to family and friends. Nothing wrong with her point of view either, its a way to maybe get information on "how to" and its her coping mechanism.

2. We are sexually incompatable (although we have great sex). She says it always hurts afterward, yet she is always pleased during (I'm trying to say this delicately). We are in our mid forties and probably have sex four or five times a week. Incompatable?

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It could explain the pain. She should ask her phsycian about it.

3. She says I am too hard on the kids. I have always kept the bar raised high and set a high expectation. The kids, in turn, have always achieved it. They almost always make straight A's, are active in school and church, and are lovable kids. I am a VERY attentive dad. We do the homework togehter, and the projects, and I attend the school activities. I make it a point to spend time with them every day. I know the rule about loving more than disciplining. I'm not making excuses, I'm just saying that my methods and hers are obviously different. I believe here that she would let happen whatever happens with the kids in school. I'll go more into that if asked.

- I think this is an age old dilemma with parenting. How much is enough and how much is too much. I think Compromise is the key here though. Being open minded and working together. Maybe you are being to hard and you don't see it. What small compromises can you make together to make it work. They are both your children.

4. She has mentioned several times that we should file bankruptcy. I don't agree. First, we always have the option to get out of some immediate debt. We could sell our vehicles and chop over a grand a month off our bills. We could our house although I believe that would be a mistake because new houseing costs would be greater. Again, she's looking for the easy out.

- Bankruptcy is an alluring sexy easy way out. I agree with you. Maybe what you need to do is go to a financial advisor. An outside source who is not emotionally invested in your problems.

-- Yes, what doesn't kill you makes you stronger. And each obstacle crossed together makes you stronger. Agreed.

I have asked her to get a medical evaluation. I believe she is either going through a mid-life crisis or is pre-menopausal. Again, not trying to pass

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Here's a good website on Mid-life crisis. Its not such a bad thing.. re-evaluating your life. Its a phase of life we all go through to some extent, like terrible two's, or the teen years.

I'll tell you from personal experience. Do not accuse her of going through MID-LIFE CRISIS directly. That has happened to me. To the point of where my X, said.."you're counselor said you were going through mid-life"... I stopped dead in my tracks and had to go back to my counselor. "Did you say this... is this possible" and they told me.."No.. your issues are very real. I would never say that to a woman. I would never say that to a person directly." and we explored what it meant to be in "mid-life crisis"... I DID think about the possibility of it. I was never the less offended and hurt... that he would bounce it off as "MY PROBLEM" and "MY FAULT"...

When there is a break in a relationship.. there is more than enough blame to go around. I am cognizant enough to take stock of myself and responsibility because.. I DON"T WANT TO FEEL THIS WAY EVER AGAIN. Its painful.

Dr. Phil McGraw has an excellent book out called.. "RELATIONSHIP RESCUE" buy the book and the accompanying work-book. If anything. It will walk you through the steps of relationship breaks.. the why's and wherefores.

And as I said before. Go see a counselor for yourself if anything. The only person you can really control or change is yourself.

Yes... I know your nerves are raw. And its not going to get any easier from here. Plenty of rest, good nutrition, calm and steady. Your kids need you.

OK so now your fighting a mental war in which EVERYONE loses.You've planted the seed of war for her by bringing up the the children and by using them to stop her leaving and that is a slippery slope to a fast ending where no one wins.I f she wants to leave with them, believe me.. SHE WILL and you WILL lose all of them if you proceed to use the kids.

You need to remain friends at all costs for all your sakes. Marriage is hard work but communication is the key. You have lost the ability to talk as friends. Stop this right now or you will end up exactly where you do not want to be.

Instead talk, talk and keep talking and talk. Talk yourselves out of this mental war before the damage is done, to you, her and more importantly the CHILDREN.

I am sorry I don't agree. Courts are ever changing and the idea that women get the kids when there is a divorce is fast losing ground. Men who are involved in their children's lives are gaining joint or primary custody more and more. The courts are recognising that fathers are equally as important as mothers in raising their children, even if divorced. Better that she deal with the real situation rather than proceeding under false assumption. It is not using the kids to stop her leaving him but asserting his intention not to be pushed out of his children's lives if it does come to a divorce.

On another issue, the idea that the effects of divorce on children is not very harmful if it is a 'good' or amicable divorce, is also under scrutiny: see here:

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4. She has mentioned several times that we should file bankruptcy. I don't agree. First, we always have the option to get out of some immediate debt. We could sell our vehicles and chop over a grand a month off our bills. We could our house although I believe that would be a mistake because new houseing costs would be greater. Again, she's looking for the easy out.

She may well have been right in the past, but I definitly would urge you NOT to file for bankruptcy now. The laws have been changed and took effect on the 17th of this month. Bankruptcy before wiped the slate clean for people unable to pay. Now it basically makes you a wage slave.

The politicians were extremely ruthless with the bankruptcy reform bill. They don't even allow exceptions for people who are in debt due to medical bills, etc.

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As for your divorce, I agree you really need to talk to your wife about what problems she has with you. It's unfair of her to say that the things about you wont change. How can she know that when you haven't even tried yet? And how can you try when you don't know what's wrong? Shadows Light made a great point - you are not a mind reader.

I was talking about the immediate situation and as a woman who knows how communication works and I still see that as some sort of threat. I agree that fathers should see thier children 100% but I also believe that Friendship needs to remain in order for the marriage to work. Good luck to you both. Keep talking.

Nothing really new to report. She does seem to be talking in more of a "may we can/maybe we can't" mode rather than "definitely divorce." I am just drained from being in limbo. I can't eat. I'm tired. I know, I'm whining.

She has said several times that people don't change. I'm still not sure what is a marriage breaker that needs to change, but regardless, people DO change! Is she just looking for excuses? I really have the impression that this is more about satisfying her wants. She wants something and maybe she can't even put her finger on it, but she wants more than she has. I think we all go through those spells, but how do you help someone back to reality? We don't have a bad life and certainly not a bad marriage. For some reason, it's just not enough. She still oves me and says so. She's still attracted to me. She's still affectionate to me.

I do appreciate the replies and no, I'm not really expecting someone to have all the answers. Just venting and hearing your ideas helps. Thanks.

Sadly, I have to report that the marriage is over. She wants nothing to do with reconciliation or counseling. I admit that she has an agenda of sorts through her actions and her expedience. We have divided the assets on paper and the mechanics of a divorce should be fairly easy. She is moving out in a few days.

The past few days have been extremely rough. Emotionally, I am byond drained. Thankfully, my family has been there for me (by phone since we live far away) and they have been a constant course of comfort. I am mentally prepared for a wonderful relationship with my sons and look forward to seeing them often. I know they will have a tough time handling this so I'll do whatever it takes to make it smooth.

Otherwise, wish me luck!