smittenkitten

I'd be inclined to believe him if I were you. Yes, men can say meaningless things when they're under the influence, but your guy has been with you for 3 months already. There's obviously some emotional investment on his part! Plus, he's saying the equivalent of ILY when he say's "I'm crazy about you." It's possible that the "L" word scares the heck out of him, so he substitutes something a little easier when he's sober. The fact that he's even alluding to it when he's sober lends weight to the fact that he says it when he's a little intoxicated. Yeah, a guy might toss off an insincere ILY- but usually it's because he's got ulterior motives. (I think we know what those are!) But your guy- he's being pretty consistent with his words and actions. He's been dating you a while. And he's certainly not trying to put one over on you! I think he's just slooooowly easing himself into the full-blown confession & admission of how he feels. Take him at his word- I think it sounds like he's pretty trustworthy. Plus I read your post a few weeks ago, and I got the sense then that he was a "good one"! I'm glad things are still going well. This seems to be progressing quite nicely.

Nope, sorry, I don't know your story, but judging by the responses you've gotten from others who apparently do- NO, bipolar disorder is NO excuse for bad behavior, if that's the answer you're looking for. It's not a problem if it's being treated properly. I have it, and I am a kind, decent, ethical human being. A little loopy sometimes, but that's just me- it has nothing to do with BP! My girlfriend is married to a man with bipolar disorder. There have been a couple of "episodes" that occurred when he went off his meds; once he bought a new, VERY expensive car they didn't need, and another time she came home & found all their furniture out on the lawn because he'd decided to "redecorate" the house. (These would be examples of manic episodes!) Not once, in their 13 years together, has either a manic episode or a depressive one caused him to accidentally put his penis in someone else's vagina. He's a decent man, he treats her well, he's honest, and he has integrity. And that's pretty much what you should look for in any man you choose to date.

By the way- in the end, it's up to you. You've gotten a lot of good feedback, and a lot of differing opinions, but I think if you tried to make up your mind based on the responses you've gotten here, you'd wind up with a split personality! LOL! I think the best way to go is to just "follow your energy", as I like to say. If it feels good to be with him, then go with it. If it starts feeling icky & confusing and just- well- NOT fun- then you know you'll be better served putting your energies into something a little more rewarding.

LOL! I can relate... I already did the "Montana Wilderness" thing- and now I've got my room reserved at the convent! I can relate to this, too. I was speaking with a friend about it, about why some guy didn't call me back after an apparently great 2nd date (no, I wasn't overanalyzing, just like... HUH?!?! What, did I have spinach in my teeth? LOL!) And I mentioned to her that I sometimes feel there's something wrong with me when a guy I like doesn't reciprocate the feeling. She gave me a very interesting, different perspective on the situation. She said, "Did you ever consider the fact that maybe you were too good for him? Maybe he's looking for someone a little "less" than you are- less pretty, or less intelligent, or less spiritual- whatever, for whatever reason. Maybe he's not interested, at this point in his life, in meeting a woman who would challenge him, or be a potential "serious" life partner. Maybe he just wants the "easy" date, the fun date, the casual sex- and so he's looking for someone with whom he won't run the risk of developing a deeper relationship right now." I thought it was an interesting viewpoint. Of course that's not the case for everyone-often, people "just don't click", and that's that- but it sure beats the heck out of assuming that something didn't work out because of some inadequacy on my part!

I'm really sorry you're hurting so much. There's really nothing I can say to make it better- but at least you know now where you stand. You'll just have to go through the pain- hang in there, post here, we're here for you. You WILL feel better, I promise you. Just allow yourself to feel how you feel right now. It's OK. You'll be OK. Sending you a big hug- ((((ripdime)))) Try to get some sleep if you can. And take care of yourself. You're worth it!

Absolutely! That's not a whole lot of information to go on, but I wouldn't hold his past against him. I don't think you can infer that someone is a love addict or has issues based on the fact that they've been married twice- even if the second marriage did end shortly after the honeymoon! There might be a darned good reason for it. I'd want to get to know the guy and decide for myself based on his character, not his past. I have a really good friend (ex-boyfriend from 10 years ago, actually) who's been married 2 times. He and I talked a lot about his feelings of failure about his marriages, and at one time he felt very depressed and hopeless about it. He felt the same way- that no one would give him a chance because he was a "loser". He's not. He's one of the most loving, giving, genuine men I know. If anyone deserves to be in a happy relationship, it's him. Just because a marriage fails, doesn't mean the people involved were wrong to get married. It doesn't mean they didn't love each other. Sometimes people just grow apart. I was really happy to hear that he's just gotten engaged to his current girlfriend (now fiancee, obviously!) He looks so happy. I hope it works out for him. Maybe some guys just need more practice than others! I'd be more likely to date someone who has been married and divorced (even more than once!) than to date someone in his late 30's or 40's who's never been married. At least I know the former can make a commitment! (Or at least do his darned best!) I'd love to hear more about this subject, if you'd like to elaborate. Is this you, yourself you're referring to?

Oh, trust me, I'm the queen of overanalyzing! That's why I said, "I know it's easy for me to say"- of course it's MUCH harder to do! I'm glad you're moving on. Don't sweat the ugly text- he no longer exists. If he was the right man for you, you couldn't do anything wrong to screw things up, and if he was the wrong man for you (YUP!), you couldn't do anything right to make it work. So don't beat yourself up about it. I know it's hard to find a good one. Believe me, I know! (I think we all do!) But I think that every time you use your discernment to weed out inappropriate men, you're one step closer to meeting the right man for you. If you wasted all your time dating men who aren't right for you, on the theory that something is better than nothing (it's NOT!), you'd actually be preventing yourself from meeting the man you're meant to be with. Hold out for what you deserve, and in the meantime, try to be as happy and fulfilled without a man as you think you'd be with one. When your man comes along, he should enhance your happiness, not create it. You're doing good!

Thanks Finn! Yeah, I think dating & flirting w/other guys is a good idea. You don't want to put all your eggs in his basket right now (lol!), since he seems a bit confused. I wouldn't bring up the other men to him though, especially since he's been hurt & he's a bit gun-shy. It might shut him down & get him thinking he's got no chance with you. I think you can accomplish the same thing simply by not being availble every time he wants to see you- a simple, "I'd love to go out with you tonight but I've got other plans!" (without giving any details) will get him wondering without making him feel that he's got no chance. It might put him off balance enough to really examine his feelings for you, without making him get so off balance that he falls over into a ditch & gives up!

Perhaps he's also interested in a romantic relationship with you, but he's thinking the same thing, and is afraid of "ruining a good thing" by trying to take it to the next level. Or he's afraid that his feelings for you might not be reciprocated, and his fear of rejection is holding him back. I had a few good guy friends in college who hung out with me all the time. One in particular would come over & spend hours tutoring me in physics. (Now there's a super fun thing that most people are dying to do!) When I went to work in South Florida, he flew down to see me & spent a week with me. I always took him for granted & assumed we were just friends, but in retrospect I realize that he was probably in love with me but too shy to make a move. I've had many guy friends who have admitted to me, years later, that they were "totally in love with you but too scared to make a move!" (OK, not that many, it's not like I'm "all that"!) I don't know. I'm not a big fan of missed opportunities. You don't want to look back in a few years and be going, "Gee, what if?!?!" He might be looking for some signals that you're receptive to something more. The eye contact is a good thing, but maybe you can start flirting with him in some more obvious ways. Brush up against him a little, touch him briefly on his knee or hand, make flirtatious comments like "Gee, why can't I meet a man like you to date?", lean over & whisper in his ear and let your lips brush his earlobe ever so briefly. If he doesn't respond to your little advances, you can always pull back into the friend zone. You've got a 3 year history- it sounds like your friendship is solid enough to venture into romantic territory without being "ruined". As long as you don't come right out and say, "I'm totally in love with you, let's go have sex right now!", you won't make a fool of yourself if he doesn't think of you that way. The best relationships are built on friendships. I think the line "I don't want to risk ruining the friendship" is kind of a cop-out. Like I said, if the friendship is strong, I don't think you'll ruin it. If you're subtle, you won't embarrass yourself. And if you guys make the move into a romantic relationship, and it doesn't work out for some reason, there's no rule that says you can't go back to being friends. You can just shrug & say, "Well, we tried it, it didn't work, no big deal." I'm still friends with many of my exes. Even my ex-husband. His girlfriend gets jealous sometimes because we get along so well. (Of course it took us a while to get to this point, but I'm glad we're here!) I'd say go for it. It's pretty rare to find someone you really click with, who you're attracted to. (For me, anyway!) Good luck!

Hey Finn! (Is it OK if I call you that? I love the name "Finn"!) I was wondering what you'd decided to do & how it was going! I'm glad you guys had fun today. You said, Yep, I think you might be dead-on. Given that you both still feel an attraction for each other; and what you described as "sexual tension perhaps"- it sounds like there might still be potential for something more. Because you're right, guys who are interested in "just" being friends don't do all those things (making plans ahead of time- especially for the coveted "weekend" spot, which is traditionally reserved for honest-to-goodness, real actual dates!, emailing every day, etc.) In fact, most guys who give you the "Let's be friends" line actually disappear off the face of the earth- it's a blow-off line that really means "I don't actually want to be with you at all or even ever see you again and this is my nice way of sparing your feelings." Heck, we girls do it, too. Guys know that whenever we tell them "I just want to be friends", that they will probably never see us again! (Although of course many times we do actually mean it, it's just something they hear as the "death-knell" of the relationship & it dashes all hopes they may have had, so they tuck tail and slink off!) I know many guys who cringe at the line, "You're a really nice guy, but...". They know it's all over but for the cryin' at that point! I think you're in a pretty good spot, actually. As long as you can deal with the way things are right now, yes, there's a possibility for more. Why not hang in & just see what happens? At the very least, you've got a buddy- at the most, maybe a romantic relationship down the line. But definitely, take him at his word right now and assume that he means what he says until he tells you otherwise. This is funny, because usually our struggle is to focus on a guy's actions when they don't match his words ("Yes, I care about you, Yes, you're important to me, Yes, I'd like to see where this goes"... when what he's actually doing is not calling, not asking you out, and giving every sign to indicate that his words are empty!) In your case, you're getting "Let's just be friends", while his actions signal that he's interested (perhaps) in more. Anyway. I'm seeing a lot of similarities in our situations. (Of course there are differences, too! But I can relate to what's going on with you.) I'm going to post my update- possibly in a new thread. My old one is just too darn long & it's getting old. Time to let it die!

I like the point Shidoshi made. Do you, truly, want to be single, or are you just trying to do it to win a bet that your (possibly jealous?) friends made with you? I think that you might be wanting a relationship, but in the interest of "winning" this bet (can you really win something that doesn't honor who you are?), you're trying to get your needs met by "cheating" a little bit. Ie, you're not really interested in just having casual sex with men- deep down you want a relationship, maybe miss being in a relationship, and by telling yourself that you're just having "casual sex", you can fill part of your need to feel loved by a man. It's like being on a diet (that you really, REALLY don't want to be on!), starving yourself for days and then sneaking a whole bag of potato chips when no-one's looking. You wind up feeling sick after eating them, 'cuz they're not good for you, but instead of considering if perhaps you should alter your diet, you wonder, "How can I eat these potato chips next time without feeling sick?" Maybe you just need to go off the diet & enjoy something that truly fulfills you. I'm not sure why your friends are giving you crap about being in several long-term relationships. Maybe because you're so young. Maybe because they're single. But I think it's a lot healthier for you to practice "serial monogamy", and continue going from one serious relationship to another, than to try to "force" yourself to be able to enjoy casual sex. Obviously you like sex. It's much healthier & safer to enjoy it within the context of a relationship, where you at least have a good idea that neither of you is messing around on the other person. You could spend one year with one guy who's sleeping with only you; or you could spend one year with--- oh, I don't know what the average is. How many "hook-ups" do singles make? I suppose it could be anything from one a day to one every six months. But you'll be exposing yourself to a lot more men who have had their you-know-whats who-knows-where. If you're serious about being single, do it 100%. No men, no dates, no sex. Buy a BOB. (Battery-Operated-Boyfriend. I know, it doesn't even come close to the real thing, but what can ya do?) Don't set a time limit on being single. Do it until you feel ready to date again. These are some good reasons for staying single: 1. You've just gotten out of a painful relationship & you need some time to heal & put yourself back together. 2. You realize you need some time to figure out who you are and what you want out of life. 3. You've decided to move to Borneo to join the Peace Corps for the next 2 years & you know you can't handle any kind of relationship while you're there. 4. You've decided to join a religious order (or go on any kind of personal spiritual quest), & you've given a vow of chastity to God. 5. You've just realized you're an alcoholic (or whatever) & you need to get some treatment & focus on yourself for a year or two. Bad reasons for staying single: 1. Because your friends are making fun of you/pushing you to do so. 2. To win a bet. (Is any amount of $/pride/loss of face worth missing out on love? If the man of your dreams walks up to you tomorrow & begs you to be his girlfriend, are you gonna say "NO"? Is any amount of $/pride/loss of face worth the risk of the STDs you might catch from having one-night stands? Or the heartache that comes with it? Or the fact that, at age 16, your reputation is going to go down the toilet?) All I know is, in college I had a lot of one-night stands. They ALL sucked. I'm 34 now, and at different points in my adult life I've convinced myself that since I'm not getting any love, I might as well at least have sex, on the grounds that something is better than nothing. (Plus BOB gets boring!) But nope. Nope, nope, nopedy-nope. I've had sex with guys I would never consider being romantically involved with, for whatever reasons. At best, I've felt cheap and horrible afterwards... at worst, I've developed "feelings" for them (triggered by the release of the hormone ocytocin, which gets released by us women whenever we have sex & promotes feelings of emotional bonding with the man) & pursued relationships with men who were completely inappropriate for me. It's up to you, of course. But I think it's better to honor your true desires & follow your true nature, regardless of what your friends think. At least you'll like yourself when you wake up in the morning, and in the end, your relationship with yourself is the most important relationship you'll ever have, and the only one that truly matters. As long as you feel good about yourself, all else will fall into place. I hope this helped a little. Good luck!

Finn, thank you so much! That was a very nice post. I'll check that book out- I have a "date" with myself tonight at Borders. Coffee and books- what could be better? Sorry if I overreacted. I've been a little... sensitive lately! And I really don't like feeling at odds with someone, especially on a forum where I'm coming for emotional support. I'm glad we don't have to butt heads. (Should I insert the word "be" after "to"? lol!) Anyway, I'm feeling much better today. Much stronger & clearer. Actually happy, even. It's nice to be singing in my car again & not playing the same drippy songs over & over while tears stream down my face. Yay. The sun is out & it's warm today. I'm feeling very positive. You ALL have been a huge help to me. I appreciate everyone's input & support! I'm really grateful this board exists. Without it I might have lost my dignity & gone chasing after him. So, I think the worst is over. (I hope!) Maybe this thread can finally ooze on down to the bottom of the pile.

I like Ocrob's advice. As I was explaining to you in my thread, we are in similar situations. I think you shouldn't play games with him. I thought about doing that to my guy, but realized that it would just be damaging. Not to mention insulting. Sure, the games sometimes work, but at what cost? He's already been damaged, and I'm not going to add any more girl-boy mental mind games to his plate. He, as a person, is important to me, and if I focused on trying to manipulate him into a relationship with me, I would not be honoring him. You want to be a good person to your guy, whether you're friends or more- especially if he's been damaged. He needs to know that there's at least one woman he can trust in his life. If you are truly capable of being his friend (and it sounds like you are), then by all means do so. So do what's natural. Don't cancel your plans with him. Just treat him like you'd treat a girlfriend. I have to sometimes consciously ask myself, "What would I do in this situation if it was Joan/Jen/Lisa?" Because it's really hard to shut off the boy/girl brain dynamic once you've been intimate with someone. When I put my dilemmas in this context, it's much easier to see what to do. Do you return this email if Joan sends it? If yes, then hit return. Do you usually return Jen's phone calls immediately, or do you chill out a couple of days because you know she's not going anywhere? Do you blow Lisa off when you have plans to see a movie in Edinburgh? Nope? Ok, don't blow him off then! I think the challenge here is to see if he can handle "just" being friends with you. I understand your desire to be his friend, and your compassion for his loneliness. I understand you wanting to be a "good" part of his life. So when you see him, just watch him for any signs of ambivalence. If he's trying to grope you, or doing anything boyfriendy/girlfriendy, he's not ready to be friends. I agree with everyone else here; yes, he's confused. I also agree with you that yes, he's probably worth it. So if he can't put himself into the friend zone like he's promising, you might just want to talk to him and tell him that you'd love to be his friend, but right now you feel he needs more time to sort himself out. Let him know that you'll be there when he's able to approach a relationship with you with clarity, whether it's romantic or platonic. I have a feeling that you're going to be the much stronger one in this situation. But if you're feeling at all ambivalent, and wondering how to turn it into something more than a friendship, then it's probably not a good idea to see him yet.

Actually, our situations are very similar. Which is why it surprised me that you took such a harsh tone in your response to me. He's not a heartless cad. He is a genuinely decent person, which is why this is so inexplicable. We have a history & he's always been very honest & open with me. He was hurt badly in a past relationship, just like your guy. He's not a jerk. I care about him and I need to process this stuff. This disappearance is totally out of character for him, and I need to sort out my own feelings about it. I'm not going to reject him if he comes back asking for my friendship. He's an amazing guy. I'm not going to just pack up my toys and go home 'cuz he doesn't want to play in my sandbox! I don't think I'm doing a very good job communicating about this. For one thing, my emotions are still up and down. I'm still trying to get clear. For another, it's just impossible to convey the type of connection we had. If I was reading my words as a stranger, I'd be thinking I was full of bs. I almost don't want to talk about it anymore.

Ummm... nope... no attempts to "wrangle" him back into my life... not one... certainly not multiple attempts. He was already there. Where did you get this idea? Ummm... nope... not years, but not a "few dates", either. Where did you get this idea? Please. I see that you're brand new here. I haven't been here very long either, but I've been here long enough to know that the basic energy and purpose of this group is to be supportive of each other, and that's what I've found. You're welcome to say whatever you want, but I find it very off-putting to have a complete stranger appear out of nowhere, who knows nothing about my situation except what she's assumed, jump in and imply that I'm an idiot who has issues. Have I done that to you? Has anyone here done that to you? Well, the implication that I'm an idiot is a subjective opinion. You're certainly entitled to it. Issues? Of course. We all have issues or we wouldn't be here. Thankfully we're all allowed to post about our problems, whether or not anyone else thinks they're stupid. So if discussing issues bothers you, why are you here? Just live and let live!