kipster

Congrats my man.....YOu indeed did this go round the ole fashined way, ya earned it. As Muneca stated, make sure that this time you don't take each other for granted and that you cherish the time you do spend together, since you never know what the future holds. Kip

These sentence sum it up nicely keefy. At 33 you are ahead of the game, my friend and some woman is going to get a heck of a guy in the near future. Your ex will undoubtedly miss out, but I think both you and I know that there's something better in store for you than her. She was great, no doubt, but I believe what will come next will far surpass her....Take care and thanks for the inspiration... Kip

Simple...You stop picking up the phone. That action 'tells' him all he needs to know. Its not mean, but it is direct in saying we've had our season, you didn't want it and now that feeling is mutual. I wish you the best in your 'life' and in your future romantic relationships, but I no longer want to be privy to them. Case closed. But that's the problem when you tell an EX (I'm not saying you have, but some people do without thinking about the ramifications) that you want to be friends. Then when the EX calls you, some folks believe its to get the call they've been waiting for (a rekindling of the relationship), but instead the EX takes you up on your offer of being a friend that they feel they can trust. I don't think you have to tell him anything, let your actions speak louder than any words. Kip

I wouldn't do it, although I did do it in the past. Doesn't work, let it go. I sent the EX a B-day card about 4-5 months post-break-up but it generated more questions than answers considering that she sent me a B-day card, but my B-day occurs after hers so you don't know the person's intention (I didn't open the card anyway, I threw it out). Needless to say I've never sent her another card or contacted her explicitly since then. They're your EX for a reason, no need to send a person a card that doesn't want to be with you. A tremendous waste of energy that is bound to bring you more pain than joy. If they were with you for a long time, they know where to find you and how to reach you like an adult. If not, its not worth it...I'd send NADA...ZERO...ZILCH..

You are right Foz. Don't ask what his intentions are or anything of the sort. Just go with your feelings and if he is trying to make things up with you or being friendly ( and you are ok with that ) then be friendly. You have to take care of yourself first.. and always protect yourself. You should be cautious and keep your eyes open here--don't push him away when he is being "friendly"...but don't engage him when he isn't. Something similar happened to a friend of mine and after being broken up for a year her guy came back and proposed. This was such an interesting story when she told me that I asked her "what did you do in that year?" she said " I was very strong, even though it was killing me inside, but I wasn't going to show him how much it was hurting me. I went out and went on with my life and I pretended I didn't care about him anymore." Now, I'm not telling you this to get your hopes up, but just as a reminder that people do change their minds...and strange things happen ( and all those cliches). You have to be strong. Whatever his motives are now...trust YOUR feelings and your gut instinct. Look out for yourself...and let him keep doing nice things for you Great advice and an amzaing story. That's what I like to call a 'power move' to get a guy to come back, on his own volition, and to propose after that...from standing her own ground. I admire that in your friend and I assume that young man found out that the grass isn't greener and that your friend was certainly worth going out on a limb for. I know that's not the norm, but I feel happy for her and that she was abls to show such strength and courage during such an emotional time.

There's no silver bullet to no contact, if you ask me. Nothing is 100%, whether its contact or no contact, that guarantees nothing either way. As a dumper, I have broken up with several women and never really wondered one way or the other about the situation and simply moved on (I was younger then). Odd thing is, in just about every case that I was the dumper it had nothing to do with another woman. In most cases, I didn't meet another woman that I wanted to date for months or even years later in some cases. And I only find myself now, after being the dumpee, really reflecting back on some of the women that I dumped early on and wondering what was the reason that I did so. But only in one case, can I honestly say that I made a mistake and even with that woman, I can't say I'd date her again even if I seen her tomorrow. Its kind of like out of sight out of mind, but again I think there could be a different impact as you get older and the pickings get more slim. I also don't know if women are more prone to think about it than men, but I would assume that the amount of time that you were with the person (e.g., 6 months vs. 6 years) might have some bearing on it as well. Who really knows though? Kip

Well Katie, let me say that I'm sorry to hear that your ex cheated on you and I can empathize with your perspective. And at 30 you'd think he'd know at least alittle bit about life and have your best interest at heart. Apparently he didn't, and that's unfortunate, but the next (real) man will. But I must say that I'm always amused to see how many people are willing to be 'friends' with an EX. Its a really interesting phenomenon, its like befriending a person that has basically told you that he/she has no interest in you romantically after a short time ago they did and befriending a person for whom there is little or no trust for. This amazes me, honestly, because if you told the average person (I assume, I have no hard data of course) that I want you to be buddies with my pal Joe Doe who you can't trust and whos known to cheat on you, you'd tell that guy, "are you kidding me?" Yet, with an Ex many people seem to forget the hard evidence and somehow want that connection many times knowing that the true desire for that connection is to get that person back and KNOWING that in the long run, their going to get hurt again (e.g., once the EX tells them about the new man/woman since now you are 'friends' right). That's why I continue to say that being friends with an EX is not an easy proposition and those that do it are far greater people than I. I'm not an optimist or a pessimist on the issue, I'm simply a realist. Now I believe that me and my EX can be 'friendly' but the core attributes in a friend that I seek (e.g., trust, companionship) have already been violated if that person cheated on me. So why on earth would I want to befriend such a person? I'd wish them the best and pray for their well-being, but with friends like that who needs enemy's? In a friend I want someone that I can count on in the clutch. And based upon how so many of the relationships end up on these boards, true 'friends' are indeed hard to find. Kip

I'm sorry confusedmama, but I'm not going to take sides since there's always two sides to every story. I'm just going off the information that you provided with my insights from perhaps a different perspective. First, I'd say lets be honest. He had an affair on you 2 years ago and cleary that severed your trust for him. There's no excuse for that and it didn't help that you had to hear it from family, which must have been embarrassing and painful. I certainly empathize with you on that one. You 'stayed to try to work it out' but clearly your trust had been compromised and that takes TIME to REBUILD. I don't believe, however, that that was your 'first mistake'. What I believe, is that perhaps the manner you tried to work it out was a mistake. Did you seek professional help in doing so? Did you seek spiritual guidance (since you mentioned that he tried to throw 'scripture' in your face, I assume religion is important to you, so that may be an avenue worth trying)? Trying to work it out on your own is a mistake, but its a mistake with your methodology/approach not in the act itself. You had a problem in your marriage and you wanted to do the right thing, work it out. But the proper avenue to doing that is to do so in an arena where your real feelings can be shared, without repercussion, acknowledged and used to build a stronger foundation. I'd say your husband, with the right direction could make the changes you seek--that is, if its really about changes or if that's just a ploy to move on, which is o.k., since its your choice. I've just seen many women/men say they want to see 'changes' only to then later drop the person after they make the changes because now they say the person is not what they want. In that case then, it really wasn't about the change it was about wanting an exit and trying to ease their own guilt/pain in the process. I think you have to be real about that especially since you've not that your husband says that he'll change 'even if [you] can't see it'. That indicates that at the very least he's willing. Truth is, the next man may not be as flexible since three children is a heavy burden for a man to want to take on--I'm not trying to scare you, only to be honest with you on how I'm sure many men will feel. Personally, I'd suggest taking that spiritual path and seeking some form of counseling in that arena, but that choice is up to you. I just think after 14 years and 3 children that I'm sure the both of you love, you have to really ask yourself is it really a non-salvageable relationship? Sure you could leave, but what would you change about you for the next relationship or are your o.k. with the possibility of perhaps repeating this same cycle? If nothing else, counseling is needed for you to grapple with these issues so that the next time around you don't bring this baggage to the next person that may or may not be the one. Now onto the accused 'affair' withyour friend. Let's 'keep it real'. You were e-mailing this co-worker for the attention and flirting with him and you liked it. It made you feel better, although you knew it was wrong and had a possibility to lead you into a potential relationship with him. You acknowledged that by saying that it was 'no excuse', so lets not act like your husband was 'off his rocker' when he followed you and became suspicious. He had every right to be suspicious, you were communicating with another man and I'm sure he could sense that. Now its only natural for him to become a bit 'jealous' and I know you know that. What's comical though, is that he would cheat and then get scared when the same potential happened with you. Doesn't make much sense, but two wrongs don't make a right, especially when you're trying to (as you say) 'work it out'. But I'm glad you at least acknowledged that since some people will bash a husband/wife but then not use the same intensity when evaluting their own behavior making it seem like they were a saint, while there mate was an animal. Again, there are two sides to every story. So in sum, I'd say think about this rationally and ask yourself if you really want to leave him or not, and for the right reasons. Don't simply try to build a straw man by saying, "I should leave" and then find all the faults in him to rationalize your decision (e.g., he moved jobs, you took a pay cut, you moved out of the bedroom, etc.). Remember, in a marriage many of those things are what you're supposed to do--its a union a committment and you knew that when you tied the knot. Let's not act like you have amnesia and somehow forgot that. In addition, for every negative you can give of a person you could just as easily come up with some good things that he's done, which most people fail to realize. And if/when you've made up your mind, one way or the other, then do it. No regrets and no hanging on (e.g., like when a person leaves then misses the other when the other person has now moved on and they realized they could have worked things out--I've seen this sooooo many times its not even funny). Its easy to leave, doors always open, but it takes a really special person to really assess the situation and make an informed decision and do what it takes to make it work, whether it be in this relationship or the ones that follow. Just my view, Kip

No problem a.d.c., I'm glad my words could be of service to you. I know when I was younger, I didn't have someone to pour into me, particularly on how to sustain meaningful relationships. So I continued to spin my wheels and have these long relationships that would fizzle out for one reason or another. When a woman gave me some insight, I'd bristle toward it and listen to other guys who weren't even in the situation that I wanted to be in (that is, men who were alone themselves). And let me save you the trouble, that doesn't work. Not to say that the advice that every woman gives is golden, but the key is to get advice from those that are seasoned and in the type of relationship that you desire. Observe people outside, look at how happy couples touch each other, how they talk to each other, etc. Its just funny how often we (men and women) will put fourth effort into other pursuits (e.g., sports, art, work) but when it comes to our relationship we think its of the 'instant' variety. Relationships take work and you learn far more by listening than by doing in them. As a man, you must be able to read your woman. Know when she's upset, know what makes her happy......STUDY HER. And women, do the same with your man...You'll be amazed at what you'll learn and you'll learn to appreciate them for their uniqueness and not take them for granted... Hope it helps...

I'm glad I was able to help Ated. I remember your story from some time ago and I hope that all is well on your end. I think the way you're handling it is commendable and yes, I believe you have already demonstrated that you were/are the bigger person. No need for overkill . As far as the grass being greener, I think the consensus is that it really isn't greener. To continue on with the analogy, the grass isn't any greener (i.e., better) its just that the other person waters their lawn differently. They still have their quirks, strengths, and weaknesses that are just DIFFERENT from those that the original person had. Not necessarily better, just different. That's generally why people meet a new person and then realize that, in the long run, the person was no better than what they had. Some return, others do not, but just come to the realization that this time around I'll deal with the new person's deficiencies better. Me personally I'm an advocate of sticking it out with the known as opposed to closing up shop for the unknown (unless theirs abuse or a situation that's beyond fixing). One just has to realize that a relationship takes work and that two people must be committed to making it work unless even two people that seem like the best match will end in shambles.

Here I mean, why wouldn't she turn to her new BF of 7 months. He is her BFG who is supposed to be there for her. She calls me and talks to me for hours about it. I just didn't understand why she wouldn't talk about this with her BF. But all of what you said makes sense otherwise. I need to do NC and see what happens, most importantly to heal myself. Thanks HB23 I believe that its quite clear why your EX is calling you and not her new BF. She's known you for 5 years and him for only 7 months. Would you tell your most intimate secrets to someone that you just met 7 months ago? Particularly if your feelings were paramount to you, as they are to many women? She knows she can trust you, hell she knows everything about you after 5+ years. She knows you won't judge her and that you'll listen. She's yet to gain that kind of data on the new guy as of yet. Its just simply too soon plus she's probably confused with all these other developments going on in her life. But at this point, I'd suggest being alittle selfish with you own feelings since you've got things in your life that are equally as important. For one, you've got some serious healing/growth/development to do to understand what changes (if any) need to be made so that the next great person that you meet gets a fair shot at the real you. And that's not easy to do. In terms of your relationship with her again, I'd say stop all contact. I know it may be therapeutic/cathartic for her, but what about what it does to you? Just in you asking questions about what she SAYS it shows that by her actions she's confusing you, since her words and actions are contradicting themselves. No contact will add some degree of clarity to your sitch by allowing you to see the forest for the trees and not jump to conclusions when she makes an effort to contact you or when she tries to share what's going on in her life. Personally, I'd let her and her new BF sort that out and I'd focus exclusively on me (or you) at this time. Seek spiritual guidance (if that's a part of your belief system) or the assistance of some trusted female friends to guide you. That is, friends that you have no romantic interest in but that you can pour into and they can pour into you in return, with no expectations outside of genuine friendship. Ask them about their relationships and about her behavior and what have been some of the pitfalls that they've run into. I'd suggest women do the same thing with male friends (although its tougher if the male is attracted to you). For me this helped me immensely and you gain a perspective that most men either don't have or aren't willing to accept. Good luck though and I believe you're doing the right thing by severing contact. I wouldn't say another word to her...let her do some growing up. Kip

After reading this post and responding to the other one I say, forget any and everything she says, just go by her behavior (i.e., what she does) For instance, you noted: She's 'crying' but not 'discussing' her new BF instead of you. The way I see it is that she feels some degree of guilt, perhaps for leaving you, but her not discussing the BF to you I'd say suggests that he's INDEED still in the picture. Its like she's trying to rationalize her move by suggesting its coming from everything else but its true source....Her. Her parents breaking up, her new boyfriend, all the tea in china, etc. can't make someone do something they do not want to do. That decision to leave you was HERS and hers alone. Please do not forget that. And not mentioning her BF, IMHO says more about him being around then it does about him not being around. Believe me, if he wasn't there she'd be the first to tell you. Because she knows that wouldn't hurt you...to hear that she doesn't have a man in the picture would be something she wouldn't feel guilty about sharing. Its him still being in the picture and telling you about that which has the potential to make her feel guilty. Sometimes you learn more about a woman by what she doesn't say, than by what she does. Now's a good time to learn that. You also note: She TOLD YOU she spent it with these folks, but you HONESTLY and most likely don't know HOW SHE SPENT. You again are probably going by what she SAYS not by what she DOES. Just like you said, why would she NOT SPEND IT WITH THE BF? Doesn't make much sense right? And if it sounds too good to be true, it probably....IS. Believe me, she spent it with him a new man that has a month with a new woman in the 'exploration phase' is putting in overtime. Believe me. Its later on down the line that the rebound starts to withdraw or that his/her true nature surfaces and the glitz and novelty wear off, not initially. That guys still around and is in the picture, its her guilt talking not her desire to leave him for you. You also note: Again, that's what she says. Almost like she seeks sympathy from you as a way of easing her guilt/conscience. Like she wants you to understand that she's got alot on her plate and that her emotions are on over-drive and not to think of her as a bad person. Its like she's almost saying, "look at all the reasons I HAD TO LEAVE YOU. YOU CAN UNDERSTAND, can't you? I'm not a bad person, honest." I wouldn't buy it and think your adherence for NC will be your best weapon to a quick recovery, growth, and a future with a woman that can be honests with you and appreciate all the things that you bring to the table. You then note: She's not scared of being alone. She's scared that her gamble might not work. She's more afraid of you finding someone BETTER than her, than she is of you finding someone else. Think about it, she's probably feeling guilty but yet probably more powerful now than she's ever felt when you were with her. She's got two men she perceives as desiring her and she's the center of attention given these problems she has and is expressing to everyone. Trust me, do not get SUCKED INTO this unless you will hurt far more than her. When she recovers, and she will and comes out of her well, you'll be thinking she'll remember you're words of encouragement and good times, but she'll have other plans. As I said before, if she comes back its going to be a LONG time from now and ask yourself, do you really want that kind of headache and internal strife waiting for her? And finally: She's with him my friend...That's the assumption especially if she's not with you. And if she's not with him, she's trying to be with someone else, that's just the facts. If she wanted to be with you, which is the imporant issue, you wouldn't be on these boards so at least that one thing is clear. I commend you though for cutting those strings and urge you to continue to do so for your own progress. At a later point when you've gained insight to this sitch, then re-evaluate and assess. I think by then, however, you'll have something far greater and less stressful. And then watch how that karma will kick in.... Kip

My man, you are far better than I. I personally, do not want to be friends with my EX, although I wish her the very best and we ended on semi-good terms (probably in her view more than mine). Anyways, we can be 'friendly' but how on earth could we ever be friends when there is absolutely no trust left in the relationship? Even friendships require trust and if a woman/man could hurt you by breaking up with you and then wanting to be your friend while she uses you as a safety net (readily apparent)--while she walks that tightrope with a new guy (the balancing bar)--then how could she ever truly be your friend? If you can handle that, befriending that type of person, then you certainly are a bigger and far greater man than I. Personally, I would not do that to my EX even if I had broken up with her. Anyone with a modicum of respect and understanding would know that to have someone new and still want someone from your past that you spent 5 YEARS with as merely a 'friend' could only cause internal pain to the latter individual. This is not rocket science and I wouldn't subject even my worst enemy to that, much less a woman that I at one would have presumably been in love with as I assume your EX professed to you. I think you are making the best move possible by telling her that a friendship can't work at this point and I believe that you're being very generous and appeasing by even telling her that the future might contain one. Again you are far greater than I. I would certainly wish her the very best and pray for her, I wouldn't tell her that I'd do that on my own for my purposes, and I wouldn't communicate with her no matter how much it hurt. She knows where to find you if she wants you and then the ball is in your court if you want to return serve and give the two of you another go. But the way she handled things makes it seem like the new guy was there all along since you don't just end up with someone new that fast (I could be wrong here though). Anyways, I say the more you try to communicate with her the further you're moving yourself backwards and impeding the healing process. Don't worry, if she wants to see if the grass is greener let her graze. It generally isn't... And her getting 'pissed' is probably due to the fact that when you wanted to sever contact she felt herself losing power in the situation and really having to rest on whether she made the right decision or not by breaking up with you. I believe there is some doubt (given her unwillingness to just cut communication totally and saying bad things to mutual friends about you--a woman that's done generally doesn't say a damn thing about you or waste her time even thinking about you) but not enough for her to go with you. She wants to see what's out there and wants the thrill of a new guy. So give it to her and at the same time, when you heal up, find that special person for you. And in the long run...take a wild guess regarding which one of you two will be happier.... Kip

All I can say is Dan, I too had a stubborn streak in me at one point but it took knowledgeable insight from posters with a wealth of experience (e.g., Muneca, Belle, etc.) to provide a different perspective on relationships--that is, the side of a woman. They know what they are talking about and have your best interest at heart. And remember, we are given two ears and one mouth/keyboard for a reason--because 'listening' is more important than communicating. You've been extremely successful in the short term with your ex, that cannot be denied--hell, I commend you on that in your ability to secure this women on several different occasions. However, as S&D pointed out, the issue now is focusing on what type of person best compliments Danimal and whether that person is truly your EX. As I've stated above, IMHO, after 3 strikes your out. And in the game of love, its probably more like 1-2 strikes. Either its a HR or a strikeout, quite literally. I say, give the EX as much space as is humanly possible--using my analogy, give her 'outer space'. I know its difficult to do and is easier said than done. As I mentioned, I've been there. And to be honest, I know theirs probably a part of you that's scared that if you give her that space she'll never return on her own. And that very well might happen. However, the only way you're going to experience long-term success in my view, is if she does just that. Otherwise you're literally 'taking a leak in the wind" and that's truly an uphill battle. I say date others and build upon those positive changes that you've already made with Dan that are commendable (e.g., weight loss, body building, etc.). Those things are exactly what's going to make some women appreciate you in the way that you need to be. And that someone, may or may not be your EX. But why limit yourself anyways, right? Take care, Kip

I agree with muneca on this one Dan. I would cut my losses with her and move forward not backward. Trust me, I know the hurt you've experienced and nothing is worse than making changes for a person that doesn't give a damn one way or the other. I've been there in a 6+ year relationship, but time does heal. You become stronger and believe me she's not the only fish in the see. Let her go....Trust me..she's not the one. As muneca said, if she were "if she cared to know she'd be in touch with you right now". I know it stings to hear that, trust me I've been there. But its the truth..a man/woman that wants to make it work doesn't let you leave they make it happen. It took me nearly 6 months to realize that and after about a year its crystallized. At this point, the EX still calls my parents on almost every Holiday almost a year later (I remember her saying when we broke up something about wanting to 'keep the connection'--despite not really communicating with them when we were a couple--go figure) but I don't get any calls and wouldn't answer them if I got them. Fact is if she really wanted me, she would have worked with me, not against me after our time of healing. I'd stress the same thing to you, think about whether she really wants you. And should it be THIS HARD to be blessed to have the woman that was meant for you? Kip